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[IEM] Gamescom - Day 5 - Page 261

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Please keep the following things out of this topic:

-Caster/Stream/player bashing;
-Imbalance/race whine;
-LoL vs the world arguments;
-'Omfg cant believe people aren't watching SPL finals' comments;
-any other assorted offtopic negativism and arguments.

Enjoy this free multiday/multigame event that has been provided to you. Share your enthusiasm for the games!

Feel free to shoot me a PM or query me on IRC for any questions or comments. Have fun! ~Nyovne

[special edit: Any more derailing over the fact that someone made a Germany vs Poland WW2 joke after page 21 will be met with a week ban.]
Spicy Pepper
Profile Joined December 2009
United States632 Posts
August 21 2011 18:00 GMT
#5201
On August 22 2011 02:59 Zaclye wrote:
nay sayers need to give credit to puma...the deserved the win... and played great
show some respect to puma pls. -_-

I think everyone respects the 1/1/1. Look at all the attention it's getting ITT.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15686 Posts
August 21 2011 18:00 GMT
#5202
On August 22 2011 02:59 Zaclye wrote:
nay sayers need to give credit to puma...the deserved the win... and played great
show some respect to puma pls. -_-


He didn't play well enough to win the nerd baller award I think of it as a subtle hint that Puma doesn't win the support of the spectators through his play. MC is still the winner in the community's eyes =)
StatikKhaos
Profile Joined January 2011
United States214 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 18:00:42
August 21 2011 18:00 GMT
#5203
On August 22 2011 02:53 chatuka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:
On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote:
Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well.


A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time.


It's not as if Puma didn't make mistakes either.

1st game. Puma did a silly 1/1/1 that got countered hard... MC should have won game won.. but didn't.

2nd game. Puma never was able to harass with marines, He even lost quite a few to marine drops.
Economically Puma never matched MC in game two, in which MC should have won again. Puma got lucky.

3rd game.. MC did something crazy desperate and lost.

It's not if Puma was the amazing player today. It's more like MC screwing things up for himself.
Which could be to his lost psychological confidence that he usually has. Puma is in his head. that is disrupting MC's play.


1.MC had to many immortals during the second push so he lost

2. The upgrades in the last big fight were 1-1 for toss and 3-2 for Terran, they terran will ALWAYS win that (and also there was a warp prism with 2 full energy templars that got sniped) but really it came down to the fact that puma had a crazy upgrade advantage

3. Puma just out played MC, and Puma won

Puma never "got lucky" he had better control, amazing decision making, and (in game 2) way better upgrades...so luck had nothing to do with it
Those Bitches
Dr.Sin
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1126 Posts
August 21 2011 18:00 GMT
#5204
Congrats to Puma, that last game with the base race was awesome.
Gatored
Profile Joined September 2010
United States679 Posts
August 21 2011 18:00 GMT
#5205
On August 22 2011 02:53 asdads wrote:
For those who say MC did everything right and terran is IMBA just remember that Mana 2-0 Puma.


Just remember that PuMa did NOT 1/1/1 all-in MaNa. Ok?
Zorgaz
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2951 Posts
August 21 2011 18:00 GMT
#5206
Amazing that no matter who wins there is always countless pages stating that the victors race is OP and the losers race is UP?!

Btw, i actually missed most of the games today. Was their anything interesting to learn about TvP in the matches today? And if so will vods/replays be up?
Furthermore, I think the Collosi should be removed! (Zorgaz -Terran/AbrA-Random/Zorg-Dota2) Guineapigs <3
Uliking
Profile Joined June 2011
Turkey15 Posts
August 21 2011 18:00 GMT
#5207
I think people miss that in game 2 Mc goes to very aggresive 6 gate blink and if you don't make a major damage with that with upgrades Terran will win the battles easily. It doesn't matter the supply count if your army are full of gateway units and have only 1-1 upgrades againist 2-2. Btw I'm zerg and terran is so fucking forgiving. Just put a cooldown to mules and I'm sure all terrans will cry for imbalance.
PBG
Profile Joined June 2011
40 Posts
August 21 2011 18:00 GMT
#5208
On August 22 2011 02:58 lotny wrote:
So much drama over one set of games.


just a bunch of nerds qqing over stuff that despite having a huge warning sign at the top of every page of this thread continue to do so anyway

SC2 getting popular in the west is a double edged sword. Good for seeing more competitive play but it brings out the worst in people too with all the whining and qqing
Wrathsc2
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2025 Posts
August 21 2011 18:00 GMT
#5209
On August 22 2011 02:59 chatuka wrote:
how can people still defend Puma here. I can't say. he didn't play that great IMO and got lucky.
MC played even worse and paid the price. I've never seen MC play that badly before.

As for the race balance, i'll trust blizzard and the maps to fix that problem.

as for personalities. Puma is boring, unattractive, and Disreputable with TSL
I don't dislike EG BTW

MC: Brash, Bold, Competant player who makes bad mistakes against rival opponents.
Perhaps him drinking less soda will help him think more clearly.

Who are you going to root for.. obviously the boss Protoss.



I don't root for the players personality. I root for players games. And puma played the better game.
A marine walks into a bar and asks, "Wheres the counter?"
Provocateur
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1665 Posts
August 21 2011 18:01 GMT
#5210
On August 22 2011 02:58 lotny wrote:
So much drama over one set of games.

Indeed, can't really determine the state of PvT balance only based on these games. I'm a bit disappointed in these games as well but that's no reason to jump into a balance discussion. People will figure out what to do about it eventually.
Whiteman103
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1070 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 18:02:29
August 21 2011 18:01 GMT
#5211
On August 22 2011 02:59 chatuka wrote:
how can people still defend Puma here. I can't say. he didn't play that great IMO and got lucky.
MC played even worse and paid the price. I've never seen MC play that badly before.

As for the race balance, i'll trust blizzard and the maps to fix that problem.

as for personalities. Puma is boring, unattractive, and Disreputable with TSL
I don't dislike EG BTW

MC: Brash, Bold, Competant player who makes bad mistakes against rival opponents.
Perhaps him drinking less soda will help him think more clearly.

Who are you going to root for.. obviously the boss Protoss.



those are all your opinions
xbankx
Profile Joined July 2010
703 Posts
August 21 2011 18:01 GMT
#5212
Guys realize it is not puma's fault for using 1/1/1. It is the strongest strat right now and puma is trying to win. But the build is very stupid, MC scouted it so early but still failed to stop it. Maybe people will come up with a way of dealing with it. I suspect it should be some kind of 2 gate robo stargate build off 1 base.
eggs
Profile Joined August 2010
1011 Posts
August 21 2011 18:01 GMT
#5213
On August 22 2011 03:00 Zorgaz wrote:
Amazing that no matter who wins there is always countless pages stating that the victors race is OP and the losers race is UP?!

Btw, i actually missed most of the games today. Was their anything interesting to learn about TvP in the matches today? And if so will vods/replays be up?


nobody said that for IdrA vs Sheth.
Bleak
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Turkey3059 Posts
August 21 2011 18:01 GMT
#5214
On August 22 2011 02:54 dmnum wrote:
what was that third person shooting game they just displayed?


Yeah I wonder this too, it looked so weird with wall jumping and shit.
"I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance. "
morningbreeze
Profile Joined April 2011
United States26 Posts
August 21 2011 18:01 GMT
#5215
On August 22 2011 02:55 forgottendreams wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 02:52 koolaid1990 wrote:
On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:
On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote:
Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well.


A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time.

The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units
He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead.


Are people still going on about this? PuMa saw MC was going for a heavy gateway centric force with slow upgrades in order to mass units.

Puma just went for the polar opposite of quick tech, mass infrastructure and faster upgrades to counter his army later. To say puma was outmacroed that game shows people have little understanding of the top tier aspects of this game.


Exactly. Are people under the impression that comparing supply counts is the final word in sc2 analysis? Puma's major strategic decision that game was to set up an upgrade-heavy lategame army. MC took multiple oddly-placed expansions just when said army was designed to materialize, instead of riding his advantageous engagements from the early game. I don't think Puma played like a god, but he was never given a reason to diverge from his plan.
Ya blew it
Razuik
Profile Joined October 2010
United States409 Posts
August 21 2011 18:01 GMT
#5216
On August 22 2011 02:59 krews wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 02:57 Razuik wrote:
On August 22 2011 02:54 Figgy wrote:
On August 22 2011 02:51 Sernyl wrote:
MC does 4gate/stargate/DT rush/proxy, wins a tournament = Best player /world
Puma does 1 1/1/1 and then a hybrid 1/1/1 with a weird timing, wins a tournament = Most hated person.

Yep.Sure is great.


People need to stop with this shit, badly.

If you see ANY of those protoss openings coming a mile away, you outright win, or come ahead in a huge way. The Terran can tell the protoss at the start of the game "I'm going to build this, and then this, and then this, and I may or may not have a Raven mixed in!" and Protoss still don't know what the fuck to do.


Then learn what the fuck to do. People need to stop with the balance whine shit.


how do you learn something that isnt possible

Okay, keep up with that mentality... I look forward to you "wait for the patch to roll out" people to quit the game already. If you don't want to learn how to be better, don't play starcraft.
Warrice
Profile Joined July 2010
United States565 Posts
August 21 2011 18:01 GMT
#5217
On August 22 2011 02:54 Hoesa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 02:52 koolaid1990 wrote:
On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:
On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote:
Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well.


A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time.

The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units
He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead.


THIS

the thing is that mc's higher tech unjits did nothing in the fight. so it was basically low tech units vs low tech units with better upgrades and medivacs., he didnt get any good storms off in the fight. protoss that opens colossus and then go into high templar do fine.

look at mana, that dude NEVER LOSES PVT EVER. he even 2-0d puma. stop feeling sorry for yourselves. its just sad.
Spicy Pepper
Profile Joined December 2009
United States632 Posts
August 21 2011 18:02 GMT
#5218
On August 22 2011 02:59 ronpaul012 wrote:
Stepping away from 1-1-1, I'll talk about game 2. Really think blizzard may need to bring amulet back again. As we saw there, they traded armys at first both going down to around 120 supply. However bio ball+ghosts easily reinforced again, where as gateways + ht's couldn't re-inforce. Main reason is that it would be stupid to get more ht's who would be useless against terran for the next minute. So he attempts to gets mass chargelots stalkers but just gets rolled.

Yup, make it more expensive or take longer to upgrade. But please bring it back. Watching San explore that style was so interesting, and terran was never given the time to discover a metagame counter.
Razuik
Profile Joined October 2010
United States409 Posts
August 21 2011 18:02 GMT
#5219
On August 22 2011 03:01 Bleak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 02:54 dmnum wrote:
what was that third person shooting game they just displayed?


Yeah I wonder this too, it looked so weird with wall jumping and shit.

I think it might have been Brink, not sure though.
PrimeTimey
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada369 Posts
August 21 2011 18:02 GMT
#5220
Congrats to EG.PuMa! He has made a lot of money now!!

http://www.sc2earnings.com/player/331/lee-ho-joon
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