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On August 08 2011 18:57 shineq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:57 zeru wrote:On August 08 2011 18:56 Akhee wrote:On August 08 2011 18:54 Ribbon wrote:On August 08 2011 18:51 Dingobloo wrote:On August 08 2011 18:48 illumn wrote:
Didn't Polt do a variation of this without tanks vs MC in season one?
How come this build is suddenly getting so much attention when terrans have been doing it for, well, ever? They cut the raven allowing it come sooner, combined with the warpgate nerf and using the initial banshees to harass instead of just do nothing has made it more popular. Also just a trend thing, it worked 4-5 times in the up and down matches so now every Terran has added it to their repertoire. I feel like it's one of those builds that'll dominate for a few weeks (I don't see a protoss winning this month  ), then get figured out and kind of fall off the face of the earth, waiting to be reinvented. Let's wait a bit before calling OP. It's strong and it's trendy. buuut its used since almost february/march lol 100%winrate build and blizzard doesnt do anything Naniwa held it off against tarson! But that's partially because Tarson forgot to research Siege Mode.
Sounds like what MMA did against HuK. Nice to see it fails when Terran forgets to research a key tech for it 
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On August 08 2011 18:57 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:56 Akhee wrote:On August 08 2011 18:54 Ribbon wrote:On August 08 2011 18:51 Dingobloo wrote:On August 08 2011 18:48 illumn wrote:
Didn't Polt do a variation of this without tanks vs MC in season one?
How come this build is suddenly getting so much attention when terrans have been doing it for, well, ever? They cut the raven allowing it come sooner, combined with the warpgate nerf and using the initial banshees to harass instead of just do nothing has made it more popular. Also just a trend thing, it worked 4-5 times in the up and down matches so now every Terran has added it to their repertoire. I feel like it's one of those builds that'll dominate for a few weeks (I don't see a protoss winning this month ), then get figured out and kind of fall off the face of the earth, waiting to be reinvented. Let's wait a bit before calling OP. It's strong and it's trendy. buuut its used since almost february/march lol 100%winrate build and blizzard doesnt do anything Naniwa held it off against tarson!
Tarson forgot siege, admitted as much after the game was over. :\
Naniwa did have a good plan to hold it though, his idea seemed solid.
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On August 08 2011 18:51 freddievercetti wrote:
Does anybody believe Inca has any chance of going into the round of 16?
lol?
It's a little scary actually. I think DRG should win, BUT in up and down matches Inca played a good PvZ for the very first time. He was solid, his opponent made mistakes but still, he was not the walkover he was vs Nestea.
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On August 08 2011 18:57 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:56 Akhee wrote:On August 08 2011 18:54 Ribbon wrote:On August 08 2011 18:51 Dingobloo wrote:On August 08 2011 18:48 illumn wrote:
Didn't Polt do a variation of this without tanks vs MC in season one?
How come this build is suddenly getting so much attention when terrans have been doing it for, well, ever? They cut the raven allowing it come sooner, combined with the warpgate nerf and using the initial banshees to harass instead of just do nothing has made it more popular. Also just a trend thing, it worked 4-5 times in the up and down matches so now every Terran has added it to their repertoire. I feel like it's one of those builds that'll dominate for a few weeks (I don't see a protoss winning this month ), then get figured out and kind of fall off the face of the earth, waiting to be reinvented. Let's wait a bit before calling OP. It's strong and it's trendy. buuut its used since almost february/march lol 100%winrate build and blizzard doesnt do anything Naniwa held it off against tarson!
Tarson said he fucked it up and forgot siegemode. He also attacked WAY to late
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On August 08 2011 18:57 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:56 Akhee wrote:On August 08 2011 18:54 Ribbon wrote:On August 08 2011 18:51 Dingobloo wrote:On August 08 2011 18:48 illumn wrote:
Didn't Polt do a variation of this without tanks vs MC in season one?
How come this build is suddenly getting so much attention when terrans have been doing it for, well, ever? They cut the raven allowing it come sooner, combined with the warpgate nerf and using the initial banshees to harass instead of just do nothing has made it more popular. Also just a trend thing, it worked 4-5 times in the up and down matches so now every Terran has added it to their repertoire. I feel like it's one of those builds that'll dominate for a few weeks (I don't see a protoss winning this month ), then get figured out and kind of fall off the face of the earth, waiting to be reinvented. Let's wait a bit before calling OP. It's strong and it's trendy. buuut its used since almost february/march lol 100%winrate build and blizzard doesnt do anything Naniwa held it off against tarson!
Cause he forgot siege mode
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On August 08 2011 18:57 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:56 Akhee wrote:On August 08 2011 18:54 Ribbon wrote:On August 08 2011 18:51 Dingobloo wrote:On August 08 2011 18:48 illumn wrote:
Didn't Polt do a variation of this without tanks vs MC in season one?
How come this build is suddenly getting so much attention when terrans have been doing it for, well, ever? They cut the raven allowing it come sooner, combined with the warpgate nerf and using the initial banshees to harass instead of just do nothing has made it more popular. Also just a trend thing, it worked 4-5 times in the up and down matches so now every Terran has added it to their repertoire. I feel like it's one of those builds that'll dominate for a few weeks (I don't see a protoss winning this month ), then get figured out and kind of fall off the face of the earth, waiting to be reinvented. Let's wait a bit before calling OP. It's strong and it's trendy. buuut its used since almost february/march lol 100%winrate build and blizzard doesnt do anything Naniwa held it off against tarson!
That was a REALLY shitty version of the 111. Does not go into this discussion
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On August 08 2011 18:55 Orpheusz wrote:
The amount of misinformation about how to hold off 1-1-1 is almost worse than watching the build itself. You HAVE to go 1 gate expo or 1 gate robo expo and then go up to 4-5 gates if you want to have enough units to have a chance to hold it off, staying on 1 base will just get you contained and expanding too late will actually net you less units than you normally would when the push comes. There's also different variations you have to watch out for (raven/no raven, more banshees, no siege etc)
The funny thing is, all toss-players have realized this. Which makes it even worse when clueless terran players who win with this build again and again tell toss players to stay on one base.
I mean, I've so far resisted calling imba/OP, but could all the terrans who are fortunate enough to not have to deal with this defensively could maybe have the decency to not rub salt in our wounds by giving completely wrong advice and therefore showing how low their own understanding of this build is?
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On August 08 2011 18:54 Zaurus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:51 aresendez88 wrote:On August 08 2011 18:48 illumn wrote:
Didn't Polt do a variation of this without tanks vs MC in season one?
How come this build is suddenly getting so much attention when terrans have been doing it for, well, ever? Seriously. This build has been around since the beta. It was just as powerful then but Protoss players got so used to seeing it that they figured out ways to hold it. It was never patched then it won't be patched now. Wolf's right. Toss players have to start expecting it more and scouting before they put their nexus down. Hey one base toss can't stop this. try it yourself before making stupid comments. Terran get so much more minerals compared to toss. They can just mine out before attacking you with everything they have and there is nothing you can do.
Just like how Protoss players were complaining that Roach/Ling was impossible to hold when the Zerg went all in on it. It's a strong all in timing attack and that's it. It is holdable, but every protoss I've ever seen lose to it at the professional level seems to be surprised when the tanks show up. At this point you'd think they should be expecting it.
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On August 08 2011 18:51 susySquark wrote:
Banshees just kill things too fast IMO... What if banshees did, instead of 12x2 dmg, something like 7+5 to light x2... that way stalkers might be able to do better? Or maybe a range nerf? 6 range banshees have always seemed a bit... awkward.
If Banshees didn't outrange marines, they'd be so useless in TvT.
Remember when every single TvZ was a 2rax SCV all-in? Zergs got better at dealing with it.
Anyway, go Tails!
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On August 08 2011 18:57 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:56 Akhee wrote:On August 08 2011 18:54 Ribbon wrote:On August 08 2011 18:51 Dingobloo wrote:On August 08 2011 18:48 illumn wrote:
Didn't Polt do a variation of this without tanks vs MC in season one?
How come this build is suddenly getting so much attention when terrans have been doing it for, well, ever? They cut the raven allowing it come sooner, combined with the warpgate nerf and using the initial banshees to harass instead of just do nothing has made it more popular. Also just a trend thing, it worked 4-5 times in the up and down matches so now every Terran has added it to their repertoire. I feel like it's one of those builds that'll dominate for a few weeks (I don't see a protoss winning this month ), then get figured out and kind of fall off the face of the earth, waiting to be reinvented. Let's wait a bit before calling OP. It's strong and it's trendy. buuut its used since almost february/march lol 100%winrate build and blizzard doesnt do anything Naniwa held it off against tarson!
Aye, but Tarson admitted to forgetting siege mode.
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In ideal circumstances you would not go robo against this build, just mass chroned gates, but your forced to get a robo, because the terran player can get cloak. After that you have already invested in the robo, so you have to use it to be efficient enough to have a chance against this push.
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TaeJa
Code A - yes
Wcg group - yes
Code S - ???
let's see
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Archons handle 1-1-1 im pretty sure. HT feedback on raven/banshees.
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On August 08 2011 18:57 Akhee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:56 Hierarch wrote:On August 08 2011 18:55 Maskedsatyr wrote:On August 08 2011 18:52 Hierarch wrote:On August 08 2011 18:49 EvilSky wrote:
Immortals are so useless in that spot, totally not worth their cost, imagine if instead of those 4? immos he actually had the equivalent in basic units, dunno if he had won but surely it would do better :/ I wonder if zealot/stalker/immortal/voidray would work? ge the zealots near the marines so they take splash also and then use your 1-2 immortals to hit tanks while 1-2 vr's and stalkers deal with the banshees? I honestly can't think of anything else that would be ready in time, gotta scout it quick though so you don't over commit on sentries. Immortals are just useless to defend this. A good terran will be scvs and marines preventing your immortals from targetting the tanks. Then maybe 2-3 voidrays and some phoenix? I feel stargate has to be the answer? against marines... well..
Marines are the main source of dps, Voidrays out range marines, and with a heavier zealot comp you can probably hold by just letting the tanks splash on the scvs and marines. With few stalkers you can use your air units to kill the banshees fast, phoenix kill banshees mad fast and then they can lift tanks also. Just a thought.
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On August 08 2011 18:59 aresendez88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:54 Zaurus wrote:On August 08 2011 18:51 aresendez88 wrote:On August 08 2011 18:48 illumn wrote:
Didn't Polt do a variation of this without tanks vs MC in season one?
How come this build is suddenly getting so much attention when terrans have been doing it for, well, ever? Seriously. This build has been around since the beta. It was just as powerful then but Protoss players got so used to seeing it that they figured out ways to hold it. It was never patched then it won't be patched now. Wolf's right. Toss players have to start expecting it more and scouting before they put their nexus down. Hey one base toss can't stop this. try it yourself before making stupid comments. Terran get so much more minerals compared to toss. They can just mine out before attacking you with everything they have and there is nothing you can do. Just like how Protoss players were complaining that Roach/Ling was impossible to hold when the Zerg went all in on it. It's a strong all in timing attack and that's it. It is holdable, but every protoss I've ever seen lose to it at the professional level seems to be surprised when the tanks show up. At this point you'd think they should be expecting it.
Maybe you should read the other posts before making generalizations like that.
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Wolf Doa We have all toss today. Toss tell your brethern to watch today [because you won't see them next round] Just because it's code A don't think it's not worth watching [Code S has one matchup]
Bwwhaha. That's a touch jaded but I am entertained.
bet you 1/1/1 I know who Iliquidbet on.
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On August 08 2011 18:58 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:51 freddievercetti wrote:
Does anybody believe Inca has any chance of going into the round of 16?
lol? It's a little scary actually. I think DRG should win, BUT in up and down matches Inca played a good PvZ for the very first time. He was solid, his opponent made mistakes but still, he was not the walkover he was vs Nestea.
You'd hope he eventually caught on, that being a good PvP'er doesn't win you tournaments. I think the guy is definitely talented, he just needs to practice all the matchups.
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On August 08 2011 18:56 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 18:55 Maskedsatyr wrote:On August 08 2011 18:52 Hierarch wrote:On August 08 2011 18:49 EvilSky wrote:
Immortals are so useless in that spot, totally not worth their cost, imagine if instead of those 4? immos he actually had the equivalent in basic units, dunno if he had won but surely it would do better :/ I wonder if zealot/stalker/immortal/voidray would work? ge the zealots near the marines so they take splash also and then use your 1-2 immortals to hit tanks while 1-2 vr's and stalkers deal with the banshees? I honestly can't think of anything else that would be ready in time, gotta scout it quick though so you don't over commit on sentries. Immortals are just useless to defend this. A good terran will be scvs and marines preventing your immortals from targetting the tanks. Then maybe 2-3 voidrays and some phoenix? I feel stargate has to be the answer?
I like to drop a stargate and get maybe 3 phoenix out.
Lift 3 tanks.
Kill ground army.
Drop tanks when ground army has no more marines.
Clean up banshees with your hopefully at least one phoenix left.
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On August 08 2011 18:55 Orpheusz wrote:
The amount of misinformation about how to hold off 1-1-1 is almost worse than watching the build itself. You HAVE to go 1 gate expo or 1 gate robo expo and then go up to 4-5 gates if you want to have enough units to have a chance to hold it off, staying on 1 base will just get you contained and expanding too late will actually net you less units than you normally would when the push comes. There's also different variations you have to watch out for (raven/no raven, more banshees, no siege etc)
EDIT: for the love of god don't go collo either or you won't have enough to kill banshees.
Going 1gate expo itself is rather dangerous vs bio rushes though. Not everyone have the balls and control of huk.
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EPT
