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Wow... mvp and sc taking 3rd and 4th in the ro32. I think I'm going to take a couple years off from e-sports until both the scene and the game develops some much needed consistency. O wait... there are still 2 more games coming out. Well I guess I'm screwed.
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On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent.
lol NA GM is not EU Platinum, THAT is the most elitist, stupid comment I've ever seen.
And btw, the supposed Grand Master Sleec is from Australia, which is on SEA, which is pretty weak though.
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On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent.
Doesn't matter? People in masters league and higher SHOULD be the only ones commenting, since people in lower leagues will spout nonsense that has happened to them in bronze league.
Again, another idiot that didn't read my posts, having an obs with Supernovas allowed Hongun to play risky and be able to react if he saw vikings moving toward his Collosi, he could just move them back and warp in stalkers and engage the vikings while the Collosi are no where to be seen.
And no NA GM is comparable to high level masters of EU, I've played both.
User was warned for this post
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On July 05 2011 22:12 MESeidel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. Because HongUn had nothing to effectively deal with the Vikings or even the drop. Yes he had stalkers, but I guess with some kiteing it would have been easy to take out some of the Colossi before the fight. And more drops had contained the Protoss (have 1 archon and feedback or DT is soo good vs drop on the other hand). It seems Terran was just to confident to win the fight and didn't try to pick up a colossus or to delay by dropping. Hard to say how much the immortals really did, but I guess the money could have been spend better.
Even if the colossi died it doesn't matter. He had just as much if not more resources invested in vikings as in colossi, the colossi stop terran from pushing up until a critical mass of vikings which buys time for templar tech, the colossi still had an opportunity to do massive damage if they weren't sniped (which they did), and it halts medivac production which is a big thing when going gateway vs. MMM (even though archons deal with them nicely during kiting).
HongUn is Code S and just rolled Supernova with the strat. I like Artosis but he is not a Code S protoss by any means. I don't think he's even third round of qualifiers for Code A level protoss.
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On July 05 2011 22:18 thepuppyassassin wrote:
Wow... mvp and sc taking 3rd and 4th in the ro32. I think I'm going to take a couple years off from e-sports until both the scene and the game develops some much needed consistency. O wait... there are still 2 more games coming out. Well I guess I'm screwed.
That's what happens when we get the MSL/OSL format. It just doesn't work for this game, right at this moment.
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On July 05 2011 22:19 mikyaJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent. lol NA GM is not EU Platinum, THAT is the most elitist, stupid comment I've ever seen. And btw, the supposed Grand Master Sleec is from Australia, which is on SEA, which is pretty weak though.
Well we SEA players get a free NA account so it could be either
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On July 05 2011 22:16 kheldorin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:10 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:04 kheldorin wrote:
OMG...Artosis misanalyzed that so much.....You need that zealots to save gas for the templar switch. HongUn is not stupid. He's going for the longer game. He knows collossus would not be good in the long run so that is why he got charge zealots and armor upgrade. You misanalyzed what he said. Hongun was clearly aiming for a game that goes a little longer, the point is that supernova had a 5 minute window to just fly in and kill all the colossus and thats what artosis was talking about and why he didnt like what supernova was doing -> biding his time until he got killed. He literally had no ranged units for like 5 minutes, nothing couldve stopped those vikings killing the colossus, and once the colossus are gone, nothing couldve stopped the ground army of supernova to kite the zealots all day long. He warped in those archons in the last few minutes of the game, just when he moved out to attack. It was extremely risky and thats exactly how artosis explained it, because it was. Except HongUn can warp in stalkers at any time at any place.
He cant warpin anything as he did spend all his gas on the colossi and thermal lance, and when he stopped doing that he produced high templar.
Watch the vod and look at honguns gas. It was never above 100 and most of the time it was close to zero. Tell me how many stalkers you can warpin with zero gas. Indeed.
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On July 05 2011 22:19 mikyaJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent. lol NA GM is not EU Platinum, THAT is the most elitist, stupid comment I've ever seen. And btw, the supposed Grand Master Sleec is from Australia, which is on SEA, which is pretty weak though.
Lol no shit, I don't even play on SEA, I used to but have massive delay since I'm with Optus.
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On July 05 2011 22:20 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:16 kheldorin wrote:On July 05 2011 22:10 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:04 kheldorin wrote:
OMG...Artosis misanalyzed that so much.....You need that zealots to save gas for the templar switch. HongUn is not stupid. He's going for the longer game. He knows collossus would not be good in the long run so that is why he got charge zealots and armor upgrade. You misanalyzed what he said. Hongun was clearly aiming for a game that goes a little longer, the point is that supernova had a 5 minute window to just fly in and kill all the colossus and thats what artosis was talking about and why he didnt like what supernova was doing -> biding his time until he got killed. He literally had no ranged units for like 5 minutes, nothing couldve stopped those vikings killing the colossus, and once the colossus are gone, nothing couldve stopped the ground army of supernova to kite the zealots all day long. He warped in those archons in the last few minutes of the game, just when he moved out to attack. It was extremely risky and thats exactly how artosis explained it, because it was. Except HongUn can warp in stalkers at any time at any place. He cant warpin anything as he did spend all his gas on the colossi and thermal lance, and when he stopped doing that he produced high templar. Watch the vod and look at honguns gas. It was never above 100 and most of the time it was close to zero. Tell me how many stalkers you can warpin with zero gas. Indeed.
What? He was banking gas for templar tech. He had PLENTY of gas since he build mainly zealots.
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lol NA GM is shit.
User was warned for this post
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On July 05 2011 22:16 Sleec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:14 Talho wrote:On July 05 2011 22:10 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Talho wrote:On July 05 2011 22:04 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:03 NguN wrote:On July 05 2011 22:01 Sleec wrote:
Sigh...Hongun is using Archons to kill the vikings, does Artosis really think Hongun is this stupid? ... Explain the big 5 minute timing where he didn't have templar tech and no anti-air, and Supernova had 8+ Vikings. It's not hard to just warp in a bunch of stalkers it actually is, he could have sniped those 4 colos easily, even if he lost half of his vikings it wouldnt matter, and in reality he'd probably lose 1-2 even with warping in 3-4 stalkers Are you people serious or trolling? You really think Hongun is gonna be that stupid and allow for a bunch of vikings to just snipe he's collosi, like I just said he had an obs on he's army, he can easily see when the vikings are coming, he can run he's stalker in front to engage the Vikings before the vikings are even near the collosi 20 stalkers dont even protect 7-8 colossus in a 200 max terran army with pure marauder/viking those 8 vikings he had could kill colossus in 10 seconds, 5 stalkers (4warped in beforehand cause of observer) kill vikings waaaay slower. Why are people like you even replying without seeing my other posts. Having 6-7 stalkers to deal with 8 or so vikings is much different from a 200 vs 200 battle considering 20 Vikings could 1 volley a collosi. So I don't know how that has anything to do with this specific game where it was no where near that number
try it in your unit tester, I lost 3 or 4 vikings (8vikings total) against 5 stalkers while killing the 4 colo, and that was even without the terrain advantage he could have used
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On July 05 2011 22:18 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Nice ad hominem. Are you honestly trying to tell me that you can kill 8 vikings with 5 stalkers before they have sniped a colossus? If so i'd like to play your version of SC2 since it obviously isn't the standard game everyone else is playing. During the second drop Hungon ran his 3 colossus straight in to stop the drop, without any anti-air in sight. If Supernova had had his Vikings in position at the edge he could have sniped 2 of them from a range where stalkers can't even move. Frankly that's standard terran tactics, try to split up his army and snipe the exposed parts. Maybe next time you'll answer the point of my post instead of trying to brag with your league ranking.
And again, you seem to ignore my post about being able to run the Collosi back and warping in the stalkers to engage the vikings before they can even reach the Collosi. The only thing you said correct was when he did the drop, yes he could've killed every single Collosi at that moment.
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On July 05 2011 22:14 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:13 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On July 05 2011 22:09 Adreme wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 bbQ4Aiur wrote:
I personally think what HongUn did totally make sense, first if u re-make a stargate for phenoix, u are already behind in air force, if u double stargate phenoix, there wont be enough resource for collosi and stuff. And Viking is only for countering collosi, they are basically useless after all collosi fall, so why bother making counter to viking, just let the collosi deal the damage and die. Stalkers dont make sense as well cause tanks and marauders melts them. The problem is he could have flown in with his vikings before the battle even started and just killed every collosus flown away then attacked and rolled him over. Instead the collosus got fought during the battle and they were able to do a TON of damage before being taken out. This was because Supernova clearly thought there HAD to be something to fight the vikings when in reality there wasnt so he should just use them to kill everyhing they can. If he did threw down a scan , he may. but since his OC land after HongUn's natural is up running for some time (which SuperNova scanned and saw HongUn's nat was finished before his OC landed), i bet he didnt want to waste any scan and saved those for mules. Seriously did we watch the same game? He scanned multiple times and he had 2 different drops in Hungons main. The only thing he didn't scan was the observer....
And the army composition, because the army wasn't at the base.
While dropping he was retreating to fast to see the army composition.
So if he would have scanned off base and hoping to see the army composition, he couls have executed the plan "fly vikings deep into enemy territory to kill colossi".
He didn'z because no one scans random "fog of war".
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On July 05 2011 22:22 Talho wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:16 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:14 Talho wrote:On July 05 2011 22:10 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Talho wrote:On July 05 2011 22:04 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:03 NguN wrote:On July 05 2011 22:01 Sleec wrote:
Sigh...Hongun is using Archons to kill the vikings, does Artosis really think Hongun is this stupid? ... Explain the big 5 minute timing where he didn't have templar tech and no anti-air, and Supernova had 8+ Vikings. It's not hard to just warp in a bunch of stalkers it actually is, he could have sniped those 4 colos easily, even if he lost half of his vikings it wouldnt matter, and in reality he'd probably lose 1-2 even with warping in 3-4 stalkers Are you people serious or trolling? You really think Hongun is gonna be that stupid and allow for a bunch of vikings to just snipe he's collosi, like I just said he had an obs on he's army, he can easily see when the vikings are coming, he can run he's stalker in front to engage the Vikings before the vikings are even near the collosi 20 stalkers dont even protect 7-8 colossus in a 200 max terran army with pure marauder/viking those 8 vikings he had could kill colossus in 10 seconds, 5 stalkers (4warped in beforehand cause of observer) kill vikings waaaay slower. Why are people like you even replying without seeing my other posts. Having 6-7 stalkers to deal with 8 or so vikings is much different from a 200 vs 200 battle considering 20 Vikings could 1 volley a collosi. So I don't know how that has anything to do with this specific game where it was no where near that number try it in your unit tester, I lost 3 or 4 vikings (8vikings total) against 5 stalkers while killing the 4 colo, and that was even without the terrain advantage he could have used
LOL, read my previous posts about stalkers engaging the vikings before they reach the collosi before making such a terrible post.
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On July 05 2011 22:19 mikyaJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent. lol NA GM is not EU Platinum, THAT is the most elitist, stupid comment I've ever seen. And btw, the supposed Grand Master Sleec is from Australia, which is on SEA, which is pretty weak though.
In other words: he is a plat in EU and says that's the equivalent to North America GM because he doesn't want to admit your game knowledge is better.
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On July 05 2011 22:11 BobMcJohnson wrote:@MrCon, theres a typo in the OP (group F overall results), Hongun advances 2-1 and not 2-0 
Thanks, fixed.
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On July 05 2011 22:21 kheldorin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:20 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:16 kheldorin wrote:On July 05 2011 22:10 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:04 kheldorin wrote:
OMG...Artosis misanalyzed that so much.....You need that zealots to save gas for the templar switch. HongUn is not stupid. He's going for the longer game. He knows collossus would not be good in the long run so that is why he got charge zealots and armor upgrade. You misanalyzed what he said. Hongun was clearly aiming for a game that goes a little longer, the point is that supernova had a 5 minute window to just fly in and kill all the colossus and thats what artosis was talking about and why he didnt like what supernova was doing -> biding his time until he got killed. He literally had no ranged units for like 5 minutes, nothing couldve stopped those vikings killing the colossus, and once the colossus are gone, nothing couldve stopped the ground army of supernova to kite the zealots all day long. He warped in those archons in the last few minutes of the game, just when he moved out to attack. It was extremely risky and thats exactly how artosis explained it, because it was. Except HongUn can warp in stalkers at any time at any place. He cant warpin anything as he did spend all his gas on the colossi and thermal lance, and when he stopped doing that he produced high templar. Watch the vod and look at honguns gas. It was never above 100 and most of the time it was close to zero. Tell me how many stalkers you can warpin with zero gas. Indeed. What? He was banking gas for templar tech. He had PLENTY of gas since he build mainly zealots.
He started banking that close to when his templar tech was ready. Still a huge window of opportunity for supernova to strike earlier.
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On July 05 2011 22:22 Sleec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:18 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Nice ad hominem. Are you honestly trying to tell me that you can kill 8 vikings with 5 stalkers before they have sniped a colossus? If so i'd like to play your version of SC2 since it obviously isn't the standard game everyone else is playing. During the second drop Hungon ran his 3 colossus straight in to stop the drop, without any anti-air in sight. If Supernova had had his Vikings in position at the edge he could have sniped 2 of them from a range where stalkers can't even move. Frankly that's standard terran tactics, try to split up his army and snipe the exposed parts. Maybe next time you'll answer the point of my post instead of trying to brag with your league ranking. And again, you seem to ignore my post about being able to run the Collosi back and warping in the stalkers to engage the vikings before they can even reach the Collosi. The only thing you said correct was when he did the drop, yes he could've killed every single Collosi at that moment.
He can take his army with vikings and attack...
Dead Colossus or running Colossus, it doesn't matter
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Nada and Hongun yay! Glad Nada made it and glad anotherprotoss made it out of all the terrans! :D
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EPT
