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On July 05 2011 22:04 Yaotzin wrote:
Lol horrible horrible game. So much for Supernova's amazing TvP I guess.
Well here's how things work in SC2, the innovator of something will eventually die out as every else catches on/catch up. And then there will be a new innovation.
Like: Mvp and Jinro being the first to stop just doing 1 base all-ins as Terran. Jinro got two Ro4s, and Mvp got two titles because of this. But then the other Terrans followed suit and Jinro fell out of that same success, as did Mvp.
Supernova does that Marine Tank in TvP and has great success, the other Terrans follow suit, and that forces Protoss to learn how to deal with it, and the styles of TvP evolve further.
The best players in the world are trend-setters, to be Code S you need to at least be on top of all the trends (well unless you're Hongun)
And that is the life of SC2.
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On July 05 2011 22:05 Kettchup wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:04 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
What the hell are they ranting about. He only had 2 colossus and a huge groundarmy with upgraded Zealots and Archons. Zealot-heavy isnt that uncommon and Tanks + Marauders are not very good against Zealot Archon. Tanks just do NOTHING to Zealots.
Kind of annoying from tastosis right there. He had 4 colossus that got in far more shots than they should have. Supernova's army was pretty much gone by the time the last one went down.
It really doesn't matter. This is standard PvT where you transition off Colossus to templar tech. Watch Huk or any Protoss stream. There is nothing stupid about HongUn's play. It's the most standard thing in the world. You only get Colossus to defend and be safe while you get to templars. Even with that crappy forcefields, HongUn crushed through that comfortably. Tastosis should really start watching more PvT.
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On July 05 2011 22:06 BlindDruid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. This was what I was thinking as well - he played a great mindgame there.
Mindgame? He made a huge mistake in having no Stalkers to support the Colossi. HongUn is lucky that Supernova didn't scout, cause he would've been crushed if he did.
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My Liquidbet took a hell of a beating today
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he needed the colossi to beat the ground for most of the game, when he got archons it was a transition already, but before it was sooo greedy and it was for so long time. I can't believe supernova couldn't see it ):
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On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ
and by the time they warp in about 1k worth of gas and minerals are gone and the vikings fly away and his army attacks and hongun loses the game. guess your iq wasnt that high after all seriously watch the vod that was so bad from both players.
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On July 05 2011 22:04 kheldorin wrote:
OMG...Artosis misanalyzed that so much.....You need that zealots to save gas for the templar switch. HongUn is not stupid. He's going for the longer game. He knows collossus would not be good in the long run so that is why he got charge zealots and armor upgrade.
You misanalyzed what he said. Hongun was clearly aiming for a game that goes a little longer, the point is that supernova had a 5 minute window to just fly in and kill all the colossus and thats what artosis was talking about and why he didnt like what supernova was doing -> biding his time until he got killed.
Hongun literally had no ranged units for like 5 minutes, nothing couldve stopped those vikings killing the colossus, and once the colossus are gone, nothing couldve stopped the ground army of supernova to kite the zealots all day long.
He warped in those archons in the last few minutes of the game, just when he moved out to attack.
It was extremely risky and thats exactly how artosis explained it, because it was risky as hell.
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On July 05 2011 22:09 mikyaJ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:04 Yaotzin wrote:
Lol horrible horrible game. So much for Supernova's amazing TvP I guess. Well here's how things work in SC2, the innovator of something will eventually die out as every else catches on/catch up. And then there will be a new innovation. Like: Mvp and Jinro being the first to stop just doing 1 base all-ins as Terran. Jinro got two Ro4s, and Mvp got two titles because of this. But then the other Terrans followed suit and Jinro fell out of that same success, as did Mvp. Supernova does that Marine Tank in TvP and has great success, the other Terrans follow suit, and that forces Protoss to learn how to deal with it, and the styles of TvP evolve further. And that is the life of SC2.
Or, it could just be due to the volatile nature of Bo1's...
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On July 05 2011 22:08 Talho wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:04 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:03 NguN wrote:On July 05 2011 22:01 Sleec wrote:
Sigh...Hongun is using Archons to kill the vikings, does Artosis really think Hongun is this stupid? ... Explain the big 5 minute timing where he didn't have templar tech and no anti-air, and Supernova had 8+ Vikings. It's not hard to just warp in a bunch of stalkers it actually is, he could have sniped those 4 colos easily, even if he lost half of his vikings it wouldnt matter, and in reality he'd probably lose 1-2 even with warping in 3-4 stalkers
Are you people serious or trolling? You really think Hongun is gonna be that stupid and allow for a bunch of vikings to just snipe he's collosi, like I just said he had an obs on he's army, he can easily see when the vikings are coming, he can run he's stalker in front to engage the Vikings before the vikings are even near the collosi
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On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo.
truth there. Agreed on this. Was wondering how could tastosis not realise this and kept bashing hongun the entire last 10 minutes of the game.. It was risky, but it paid off didn't it? Complete mind games by hongun
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On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ
Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2.
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@MrCon, theres a typo in the OP (group F overall results), Hongun advances 2-1 and not 2-0 
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On July 05 2011 22:04 kheldorin wrote:
OMG...Artosis misanalyzed that so much.....You need that zealots to save gas for the templar switch. HongUn is not stupid. He's going for the longer game. He knows collossus would not be good in the long run so that is why he got charge zealots and armor upgrade.
Yeah and I guess getting Colossi and Thermal Lance saves gas.
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Am I the only one that thinks what Hongun did in that last game was pure genius? He made a super strong ground army, with just enough colossus production to keep Supernova making 2 vikings non-stop. Suicide colossus in for as much damage as possible, while the rest of his viking-immune army wins hands down against Supernova's weak ground force.
"Going mass colossus with no anti-air is a flawed strategy" -Tastosis
1 robo mass colossus huh? He had what, 3 colossus in the final battle?
The proof is in the pudding, Hongun totally smashed face, the last fight wasn't even close.
Edit: correction, a mass of 4 colossi.
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On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. Because HongUn had nothing to effectively deal with the Vikings or even the drop.
Yes he had stalkers, but I guess with some kiteing it would have been easy to take out some of the Colossi before the fight.
And more drops had contained the Protoss (have 1 archon and feedback or DT is soo good vs drop on the other hand).
It seems Terran was just to confident to win the fight and didn't try to pick up a colossus or to delay by dropping.
Hard to say how much the immortals really did, but I guess the money could have been spend better.
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The final game was decent. People tend to get swayed by whatever Artosis says way too easily. Like someone mentioned, I thought all the while Hongun was forcing vikings in order to go mass zealots. It was painfully obvious and Hongun is probably No. 1 stalker lover in the entire GSL. He did NOT forget about them.
Yes it was a risky play but it's all part of the game, and not all terran decides to just send vikings across the map just because of one scan did not reveal many stalkers. Especially when Hongun is known for blink stalkers.
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On July 05 2011 22:09 Herry wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ and by the time they warp in about 1k worth of gas and minerals are gone and the vikings fly away and his army attacks and hongun loses the game. guess your iq wasnt that high after all seriously watch the vod that was so bad from both players.
Did you really not just read my post saying he had an Obs with the army, so he would be able to just run his collosi back and warp in stalkers? Or are you just stupid.
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On July 05 2011 22:10 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:09 mikyaJ wrote:On July 05 2011 22:04 Yaotzin wrote:
Lol horrible horrible game. So much for Supernova's amazing TvP I guess. Well here's how things work in SC2, the innovator of something will eventually die out as every else catches on/catch up. And then there will be a new innovation. Like: Mvp and Jinro being the first to stop just doing 1 base all-ins as Terran. Jinro got two Ro4s, and Mvp got two titles because of this. But then the other Terrans followed suit and Jinro fell out of that same success, as did Mvp. Supernova does that Marine Tank in TvP and has great success, the other Terrans follow suit, and that forces Protoss to learn how to deal with it, and the styles of TvP evolve further. And that is the life of SC2. Or, it could just be due to the volatile nature of Bo1's...
???? Not all GSL matches are Bo1's?
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On July 05 2011 22:08 Qaatar wrote:
Wow...I think today is a perfect example (along with MKP's group, and countless past GSL's) of why Code S Ro32 needs to be Bo3 in the same group format.
Just as a counterpoint: both MC and July in Dreamhack, had their games been Bo1's in the group stages, wouldn't have even made it out of their group.
I agree. Bo1 is so brutal.
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On July 05 2011 22:10 Sleec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:08 Talho wrote:On July 05 2011 22:04 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:03 NguN wrote:On July 05 2011 22:01 Sleec wrote:
Sigh...Hongun is using Archons to kill the vikings, does Artosis really think Hongun is this stupid? ... Explain the big 5 minute timing where he didn't have templar tech and no anti-air, and Supernova had 8+ Vikings. It's not hard to just warp in a bunch of stalkers it actually is, he could have sniped those 4 colos easily, even if he lost half of his vikings it wouldnt matter, and in reality he'd probably lose 1-2 even with warping in 3-4 stalkers Are you people serious or trolling? You really think Hongun is gonna be that stupid and allow for a bunch of vikings to just snipe he's collosi, like I just said he had an obs on he's army, he can easily see when the vikings are coming, he can run he's stalker in front to engage the Vikings before the vikings are even near the collosi
He had no stalkers did you forget that?
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EPT
