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On July 06 2011 07:45 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 06:21 lunchforthesky wrote:On July 06 2011 05:58 Olinim wrote:On July 06 2011 04:13 noddy wrote:On July 06 2011 03:58 Micket wrote:
I think what people were saying in terms of consistency was that, a player like Nestea, who is amazing, got knocked down to the up and down matches, loses 1st round in every online tournament he enters, loses to Dimaga in his best matchup and then wins a gsl.
MC, loses to Jinro when going 2 base carrier, wins a gsl, wins dream hack, loses first round in gsl, wins Copenhagen, loses to thorzain, loses first round in gsl, does well in foreign tourneys including winning star wars.
MVP wins a GSL in the most dominating fashion out of all winners, drops down to code A, wins gsl, loses 2nd round super tourney, loses 1st round today.
I think GOMs format is not the best. A team match of code B vs GSL winners (sans FD) would not be a complete blowout compared to 4 not so famous guys vs Huk, Naniwa, Idra, Thorzain. In fact, I think there are few combinations of foreign players that could beat this team.
But Puma, DRG, MMA and someone else (gumiho, guinea pig, hack, hwangsin etc.) would have a big shot of beating the gsl champion team. Nestea entered one online tournament, and it was the TSL. Really, don't judge any of the Koreans because of that. They weren't used to the lag. Nestea would destroy every single foreigner with one hand. But they really should make group stages BO3, after that many times where Mvp, MKP, MC and NesTea are eliminated in ro32. Agree with this so much. It's sad that Code A is bo3 yet Code S remains bo1. Bo1 favours the lesser players so much, I think we'd have much more consistent players if it was just bo3. Stop being so pitifully misinformed. nestea has participated in 3 online tourneys, and has done horribly in all 3, and MC won in a tourney he was in, so obviously lag isn't as much of a factor. Your statement about nestea destroying foreigners is OBJECTIVELY untrue. Considering his pitiful 33 percent international winrate. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/29_NesTea Yes, Nestea, best in the world by a mile would struggle version foreigners in LAN, sure they were decimated by his apprentice Losira but would Nestea do the same? No one cares about laggy online tournaments. They mean nothing. I guess his games vs dimaga were meaningless also. I was merely pointing out that the things in the post I responded to were untrue and saying "nestea would destroy every single foreigner with one hand" when he's done nothing but lose to them is hilarious.
You're just straight up retarded if you think nestea's results online are valid. NO ONLINE TORUNAMENT IS VALID. Everyone knows it. Put nestea in a lan setting and see how many foreigners beat him. Dimaga is a top tier zvz player, but 1 series does not make dimaga the best player in the world suddenly. No foreigner is above nestea. They can't even handle his sidekick losira let alone him.
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On July 06 2011 08:16 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 07:45 Olinim wrote:On July 06 2011 06:21 lunchforthesky wrote:On July 06 2011 05:58 Olinim wrote:On July 06 2011 04:13 noddy wrote:On July 06 2011 03:58 Micket wrote:
I think what people were saying in terms of consistency was that, a player like Nestea, who is amazing, got knocked down to the up and down matches, loses 1st round in every online tournament he enters, loses to Dimaga in his best matchup and then wins a gsl.
MC, loses to Jinro when going 2 base carrier, wins a gsl, wins dream hack, loses first round in gsl, wins Copenhagen, loses to thorzain, loses first round in gsl, does well in foreign tourneys including winning star wars.
MVP wins a GSL in the most dominating fashion out of all winners, drops down to code A, wins gsl, loses 2nd round super tourney, loses 1st round today.
I think GOMs format is not the best. A team match of code B vs GSL winners (sans FD) would not be a complete blowout compared to 4 not so famous guys vs Huk, Naniwa, Idra, Thorzain. In fact, I think there are few combinations of foreign players that could beat this team.
But Puma, DRG, MMA and someone else (gumiho, guinea pig, hack, hwangsin etc.) would have a big shot of beating the gsl champion team. Nestea entered one online tournament, and it was the TSL. Really, don't judge any of the Koreans because of that. They weren't used to the lag. Nestea would destroy every single foreigner with one hand. But they really should make group stages BO3, after that many times where Mvp, MKP, MC and NesTea are eliminated in ro32. Agree with this so much. It's sad that Code A is bo3 yet Code S remains bo1. Bo1 favours the lesser players so much, I think we'd have much more consistent players if it was just bo3. Stop being so pitifully misinformed. nestea has participated in 3 online tourneys, and has done horribly in all 3, and MC won in a tourney he was in, so obviously lag isn't as much of a factor. Your statement about nestea destroying foreigners is OBJECTIVELY untrue. Considering his pitiful 33 percent international winrate. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/29_NesTea Yes, Nestea, best in the world by a mile would struggle version foreigners in LAN, sure they were decimated by his apprentice Losira but would Nestea do the same? No one cares about laggy online tournaments. They mean nothing. I guess his games vs dimaga were meaningless also. I was merely pointing out that the things in the post I responded to were untrue and saying "nestea would destroy every single foreigner with one hand" when he's done nothing but lose to them is hilarious. You're just straight up retarded if you think nestea's results online are valid. NO ONLINE TORUNAMENT IS VALID. Everyone knows it. Put nestea in a lan setting and see how many foreigners beat him. Dimaga is a top tier zvz player, but 1 series does not make dimaga the best player in the world suddenly. No foreigner is above nestea. They can't even handle his sidekick losira let alone him.
i agree
remember what idra said how they were disadvantage because of online his words
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On July 06 2011 01:55 Toadvine wrote:
Since you seem to focus on execution, let's throw that out of the equation. Let's take chess, a game which requires no execution whatsoever, just strategy (in SC2 terms). Do you really think someone could become good at chess just by watching professionals play? Because that's what your statement implies. If watching can give you a "high understanding" of a game, then you can learn chess by watching others play.
But it doesn't really work that way. Not for chess, not for anything else. Humans learn through experience first and foremost. Watching high-level SC2 games can give you a good idea as to what is good, but it won't help you understand why. You can watch Protoss players throw down a cannon after 3 gate expanding, and you can theorycraft why they do such a thing, and then you watch one of them not build the cannon, and be fine anyways - and you have no idea what the thought process is behind this decision, and it could be a plethora of different things. However, someone who plays Protoss at a high masters/GM level, and has 3 gate expanded hunderds of times against Zerg, will almost always know why, because he has experienced all the different ways the game can play out from that point.
Watching SC2 only lets you know how a particular game has played out, it give you no indication of how it could have played out, and how that influences the decisions players make. It's always painful for me to read LR threads after a particularly stupid loss, because you have all these Bronze level theorycrafters smugly declaring how terrible a player's strategy was, and how he didn't use the very obvious and easy winning strategy. Pro players aren't fucking stupid, seriously. They can be wrong, and their execution can be bad, but they don't just do shit randomly, there's almost always a good reason.
So, if you don't play the game at a decently high level, think your understanding of it is "good" because you watch it a lot, and you think someone just made an exceptionally stupid decision in a GSL game - then it's most likely you not understanding the game at all, rather than the pro being bad.
If only people like you spent more time arguing the about the actual arguments made instead of the background of the person making them this discussion would've been more worthwhile.
Why waste so much energy on an adhominem. You would've been more succinct with a "learn 2 play nub" remark.
BTW what was the person you were responding to arguing about? (I'm not being pedantic here)
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On July 06 2011 03:37 naventus wrote:
No, you are utterly clueless. The difference is the precision of thought. When a trashcan theorycrafter like you thinks about the game, you think of it in vague heuristics like "oh I should build a bunker after expo". Or stuff like "I need to pressure him".
Those ideas are garbage. They don't mean anything, they're just bullshit.
But that's exactly what Toadvine was explaining, you don't actually understand the game well enough to know WHY and WHEN the bunker went up. An excellent player understands the game precisely.
That's not true. That's why they are inconsistent.
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sC was my pick to win it all this season.....WHY U NO WIN sC!?
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On July 06 2011 09:25 MogSkynet wrote:
sC was my pick to win it all this season.....WHY U NO WIN sC!?
I wouldn't have doubted him making at least Ro8 again, but I always saw his group as a very strong group, relatively underestimated by most people who labelled Group D the group of death. I never got that since I haven't bought into the Alicia hype, and though Coca unexpectedly advanced, he wasn't exactly someone I would make a group of death with.
On the other hand: MVP, sC, Zenio and Byun are all fantastic players. Byun and Zenio have not had great showings in the GSL, but are underestimated because of it.
Anyway, group E was my "Group of Death" pick.
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LoL, NaDa won the group so easily. Extremely sexy reaper play I must say.
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On July 06 2011 03:58 Micket wrote:
MC, loses to Jinro when going 2 base carrier, wins a gsl, wins dream hack, loses first round in gsl, wins Copenhagen, loses to thorzain, loses first round in gsl, does well in foreign tourneys including winning star wars.
MVP wins a GSL in the most dominating fashion out of all winners, drops down to code A, wins gsl, loses 2nd round super tourney, loses 1st round today.
I think GOMs format is not the best. A team match of code B vs GSL winners (sans FD) would not be a complete blowout compared to 4 not so famous guys vs Huk, Naniwa, Idra, Thorzain. In fact, I think there are few combinations of foreign players that could beat this team..
I don't think it has anything to do with GOM's format... GSL is far more competitive then those other tournaments you mentioned. People don't seem to be able to recognize that alot of the players in Code S are very equal in skill to others, meaning that -everyone- loses sometimes.
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Awww come on MVP  This season keeps on breaking my heart.
At least Nada balled it up <3
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Lol at someone saying Football isnt rocket science but Starcraft 2 is. First of all, neither of them are rocket science. Second of all, Football has at least as much strategy and key decision making as Starcraft.
Also, lol at people thinking that you can have an understanding of the game even if they dont play it much. I used to think that too, but the truth of the matter is you wont understand timings for shit unless you play enough, and timings are damn important. I used to be one of those guys goin "Why didnt he go for infestors?? What an idiot!" I start playing a little more and I realize I die before I get a good army of infestors. Face it, if you mostly just watch SC2, you will never have the experience required to get a higher understanding of the game. I admit that at Diamond my understanding is relatively low. I might be able to pick up on some mistakes or good plays of the pros, but I am not stupid enough to think that I know better than them
And to the guy mentioning Tastosis, they play a ton of games and therefore have a strong knowledge of the game. Then again, listen to MC commentate and even though his English isnt the best you can tell that hes even better at predicting the flow of the game than Tastosis.
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EPT
