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On July 05 2011 22:31 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:28 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:26 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:23 Heavenly wrote:On July 05 2011 22:19 mikyaJ wrote:On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:
[quote]
there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent. lol NA GM is not EU Platinum, THAT is the most elitist, stupid comment I've ever seen. And btw, the supposed Grand Master Sleec is from Australia, which is on SEA, which is pretty weak though. In other words: he is a plat in EU and says that's the equivalent to North America GM because he doesn't want to admit your game knowledge is better. Stop making assumptions as to what peoples intentions are. Im masters on EU, and actually, most of the GM NA players are even below silver calibre. Deezer comes to mind, combatex comes to mind... shall i go on? GM NA sucks and thats all there is to tell about it. Just a bunch of allining noobs that go for 1 base plays and try to get some ladder points. You just named 2 cheaters and hackers... Sorry to disappoint you but there arent any good macro players on NA GM except the occasional pro you can face. And even most of them arent that good. Minigun comes to mind... shall i go on? GM NA is nowhere near EU bronze.
Rule 1 of the interwebz: Don't feed the trolls, I shall stop replying to you good sir!
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People are giving HongUn far too much credit just cause he is a Code S player. He made a mistake. Supernova did nothing about said mistake. HongUn wins cause of it.
If you put NaDa or MVP or any Terran that would actually do something about the mistake in Supernova's shoes, you'd see HongUn losing the game.
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On July 05 2011 22:26 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
This is the problem of casters who don't play a a high level. I miss homestory cup.
I doubt Socke, Hasu or White-Ra would have bashed on HongUns playstyle for ridiculous reasons. "This tactic is bad" That just sounds obnoxious when he's completely rolling the opponent.
No Terran is ever just gonna fly 6 Vikings alone over to the protoss base. You need like 2-3 scans to be completely sure that there are no stalkers anywhere and if you just lose a few vikings for nothing it takes too long to reproduce and cuts even more inteo Medivac production.
A Fullout push from Supernova wouldn't have worked either because his composition fails miserably against mass Zealot + Sentry and later Archon and HongUn was prepared with his observer.
How the hell was that super risky. People just blindly repeating what tastetosis preach?
I guess White-Ra would even be impressed by "special Taktikz"!
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OMG my liquibet ~.~
NaDa on vacation. Oh yeah, finally a title for him.
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On July 05 2011 22:22 Sleec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:18 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Nice ad hominem. Are you honestly trying to tell me that you can kill 8 vikings with 5 stalkers before they have sniped a colossus? If so i'd like to play your version of SC2 since it obviously isn't the standard game everyone else is playing. During the second drop Hungon ran his 3 colossus straight in to stop the drop, without any anti-air in sight. If Supernova had had his Vikings in position at the edge he could have sniped 2 of them from a range where stalkers can't even move. Frankly that's standard terran tactics, try to split up his army and snipe the exposed parts. Maybe next time you'll answer the point of my post instead of trying to brag with your league ranking. And again, you seem to ignore my post about being able to run the Collosi back and warping in the stalkers to engage the vikings before they can even reach the Collosi. The only thing you said correct was when he did the drop, yes he could've killed every single Collosi at that moment.
right i'll simply ignore you since you insist on being a troll. Hungon gambled on his opponent being too passive to make use of the massive window his build gave him and he gambled correctly.
Go back to your dream land where instantly massive amount of units appear without any warpin time or gateway cooldowns never mind the ressources needed to build units instantly. And i'll go back to playing the standard game everyone else is.
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On July 05 2011 22:32 Sleec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:31 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:28 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:26 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:23 Heavenly wrote:On July 05 2011 22:19 mikyaJ wrote:On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:
[quote]
He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent. lol NA GM is not EU Platinum, THAT is the most elitist, stupid comment I've ever seen. And btw, the supposed Grand Master Sleec is from Australia, which is on SEA, which is pretty weak though. In other words: he is a plat in EU and says that's the equivalent to North America GM because he doesn't want to admit your game knowledge is better. Stop making assumptions as to what peoples intentions are. Im masters on EU, and actually, most of the GM NA players are even below silver calibre. Deezer comes to mind, combatex comes to mind... shall i go on? GM NA sucks and thats all there is to tell about it. Just a bunch of allining noobs that go for 1 base plays and try to get some ladder points. You just named 2 cheaters and hackers... Sorry to disappoint you but there arent any good macro players on NA GM except the occasional pro you can face. And even most of them arent that good. Minigun comes to mind... shall i go on? GM NA is nowhere near EU bronze. Rule 1 of the interwebz: Don't feed the trolls, I shall stop replying to you good sir!
Im completely serious though. Just watch the latest TL attack with naniwa.
The opponents are apparently in the masters league, but look at their gameplay.
All of NA players are comparable to that level, including yourself probably.
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On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about.
If you are a GM protoss you should know what happens when chargelets meet mass marauder with no collosus support. That what could have happend at any time from the moment he got out the collosus to the moment that battle started he could have attacked in with vikings and lost no more then 3-5 depending on if stalkers are warped in. The thing that won Hongun that fight were that the collosus roasted a huge chunk of that army before being taken out when they should never have been in the fight to begin with.
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On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent.
Any semi-pro on NA or not, can get to KR MASTERS within a day or so, just saying.
Also...please don't reference TL attack with Nani vs. NA Masters. A no-name masters on EU or a no-name masters on NA will ALL look like scrubs against the best foreign trained player in the world....
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On July 05 2011 22:33 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:32 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:31 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:28 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:26 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:23 Heavenly wrote:On July 05 2011 22:19 mikyaJ wrote:On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:
[quote]
Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent. lol NA GM is not EU Platinum, THAT is the most elitist, stupid comment I've ever seen. And btw, the supposed Grand Master Sleec is from Australia, which is on SEA, which is pretty weak though. In other words: he is a plat in EU and says that's the equivalent to North America GM because he doesn't want to admit your game knowledge is better. Stop making assumptions as to what peoples intentions are. Im masters on EU, and actually, most of the GM NA players are even below silver calibre. Deezer comes to mind, combatex comes to mind... shall i go on? GM NA sucks and thats all there is to tell about it. Just a bunch of allining noobs that go for 1 base plays and try to get some ladder points. You just named 2 cheaters and hackers... Sorry to disappoint you but there arent any good macro players on NA GM except the occasional pro you can face. And even most of them arent that good. Minigun comes to mind... shall i go on? GM NA is nowhere near EU bronze. Rule 1 of the interwebz: Don't feed the trolls, I shall stop replying to you good sir! Im completely serious though. Just watch the latest TL attack with naniwa. The opponents are apparently in the masters league, but look at their gameplay. All of NA players are comparable to that level, including yourself probably.
Feel free to pm me your id/code to 1v1, naniwa would destroy any EU masters player too
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[QUOTE]On July 05 2011 22:31 gh0un wrote:
[QUOTE]On July 05 2011 22:26 gh0un wrote:
Stop making assumptions as to what peoples intentions are.
Im masters on EU, and actually, most of the GM NA players are even below silver calibre.
Deezer comes to mind, combatex comes to mind... shall i go on?
User was warned for this post
Sorry to disappoint you but there arent any good macro players on NA GM except the occasional pro you can face.
And even most of them arent that good. Minigun comes to mind... shall i go on?
[/QUOTE]
please.. go on
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On July 05 2011 22:33 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:22 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:18 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Nice ad hominem. Are you honestly trying to tell me that you can kill 8 vikings with 5 stalkers before they have sniped a colossus? If so i'd like to play your version of SC2 since it obviously isn't the standard game everyone else is playing. During the second drop Hungon ran his 3 colossus straight in to stop the drop, without any anti-air in sight. If Supernova had had his Vikings in position at the edge he could have sniped 2 of them from a range where stalkers can't even move. Frankly that's standard terran tactics, try to split up his army and snipe the exposed parts. Maybe next time you'll answer the point of my post instead of trying to brag with your league ranking. And again, you seem to ignore my post about being able to run the Collosi back and warping in the stalkers to engage the vikings before they can even reach the Collosi. The only thing you said correct was when he did the drop, yes he could've killed every single Collosi at that moment. right i'll simply ignore you since you insist on being a troll. Hungon gambled on his opponent being too passive to make use of the massive window his build gave him and he gambled correctly. Go back to your dream land where instantly massive amount of units appear without any warpin time or gateway cooldowns never mind the ressources needed to build units instantly. And i'll go back to playing the standard game everyone else is.
Please explain this massive window open to Supernova to me. He would never engage that without a high enough viking account, which creates a window for HongUn to do whatever he wants. Viking production takes over medivac production which means the ground army is even weaker than it would be. HongUn cripples the strength of the ground army while forcing at least an equal resource expenditure of vikings to make up for the cost of the colossi. Since so much of your resources are devoted into chargelots you also have the gas to constantly chronoboost out upgrades.
The addition of archons makes it so that while marauders have to kite the chargelots (which takes a lot more apm than amoving your chargelots) the medivacs will lag behind the stimmed kiting army. Archon speed is superior to medivac speed so they will kill all of the medivacs. Archons can also hit the kiting marauders eventually. When they have stimmed a ton to avoid your chargelots, and their medivacs are gone, you back off with your chargelots, warp in more, and continue. Then you can resume colossi production because they have to decide whether or not they are going to make medivacs or vikings. If you scout vikings being made, you can cut colossi production and they have useless vikings and no medivacs. Without medivacs they won't be able to stim and kite unless they feel like putting their entire army into the deep red. If you scout medivacs being made you continue to product colossi.
Huk showed this style on his stream and said oGs protosses are playing around with it a lot.
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On July 05 2011 22:34 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. If you are a GM protoss you should know what happens when chargelets meet mass marauder with no collosus support. That what could have happend at any time from the moment he got out the collosus to the moment that battle started he could have attacked in with vikings and lost no more then 3-5 depending on if stalkers are warped in. The thing that won Hongun that fight were that the collosus roasted a huge chunk of that army before being taken out when they should never have been in the fight to begin with.
And how should he have spotted them?
Scanning the whole fog of war?
HongUn NEVER let his army stay @ a base or point of interest.
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On July 05 2011 22:34 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:On July 05 2011 22:05 Husnan wrote:
I don't know why Tastosis kept being so critical of HongUn, this game seems pretty brilliant from him.
Bait 10 vikings, with phoenixes and a few colossi, but only make chargelots and archons to rape everything on the ground.. That was damn good imo. there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. If you are a GM protoss you should know what happens when chargelets meet mass marauder with no collosus support. That what could have happend at any time from the moment he got out the collosus to the moment that battle started he could have attacked in with vikings and lost no more then 3-5 depending on if stalkers are warped in. The thing that won Hongun that fight were that the collosus roasted a huge chunk of that army before being taken out when they should never have been in the fight to begin with.
Well chargelots are good against marauders, and I won't answer the rest of your post since I've answered it already
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On July 05 2011 22:31 Cheerio wrote:
Sleec is right. If Nova somehow knew there were no stalkers and started to hunt colossi it would have been just another game episode with initiative on his side but certainly too minor to decide the winner.
Sleec is indeed right.
Hongun couldve ran the colossi away upon spotting the incoming vikings (towards 3rd).
Hongun couldve warped in a round of stalkers.
Hongun has obs there to spot for it early.
The map layout meant the distance from natural to natural (army to army) is fairly long. A viking suicide mission like that would be much more effective on say, Xel Naga 3base vs 3base where armies are close.
On top of that, to do that as T you have to be 100% sure you didnt miss any stalkers (and how can you be that?) and you also have to actively look for it. I mean, normally you always expect there to be stalkers, to actually notice the lack of them and act accordingly isnt as easy as it sounds. Imagine how stupid Supernova would look if he went in with 8-10 viking all on their own and lose them all for the cost of one colossi.... That wouldve been a hilariously bad move, and Supernova couldnt be sure that wasnt gonna happen. Yes, high masters EU and watching SC2 nonstop and all that.
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On July 05 2011 22:19 Sleec wrote:
Doesn't matter? People in masters league and higher SHOULD be the only ones commenting, since people in lower leagues will spout nonsense that has happened to them in bronze league.
And no NA GM is comparable to high level masters of EU, I've played both.
Wow, way to be a stereotypical elitist douchenerd. This website wouldn't even exist if only master level players were allowed to post, DURRR. Websites need to make money through advertising by getting lots of hits, 95% of which are gone if you only let master leaguers talk. Have fun with your shitty website with 200 nerds argueing and no content because they make no revenue.
Last time I checked, you didnt need to be a professional football player to comment on a game you watched. Plenty of sub master leaguers understand the game just as well as master leaguers and some are even more intelligent strategy wise, they just lack the mechanics/practice/apm because they don't play 24/7 or play random or have shitty hand eye coordination or whatever else.
For example there's plenty of "master league" players who got there by playing 1 race doing 1 or 2 effective all in stategies over and over, that dude understands the game better than every diamond guy playing random and exploring all strategies or some genius iq gold player who watches every tournament but has big clumsy hands and can't micro for shit? Also love how these superdouchenerds act like the only league below masters is bronze.
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On July 05 2011 22:31 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:28 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:26 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:23 Heavenly wrote:On July 05 2011 22:19 mikyaJ wrote:On July 05 2011 22:15 gh0un wrote:On July 05 2011 22:13 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:11 Tula wrote:On July 05 2011 22:08 Sleec wrote:On July 05 2011 22:06 Herry wrote:
[quote]
there was a timing of about 5 minutes where supernova could have completely destroyed hongun in every way but he just didnt attack He had an observer with supernova's army the whole time, he can easily warp in a bunch of stalkers to deal with the vikings. My god some of these posts in this thread have lowered my IQ Obviously since you post something like that. Countering Vikings with Stalkers only works if you have decent amounts. If you have 4-5 Stalkers without blink the vikings will almost certainly snipe 1 or 2 without any losses. Esp. If you pull the Colossi out of position with a drop or 2. I'm in GM, what league are you in? Since you have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry sir, you are the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, whether GM or not doesnt matter. Hongun had no stalkers whatsoever, it was mass zealots and 4 colossi until the last minute of the game in which he warped in a few archons. There was no antiair to kill the vikings for 5 minutes, such a big timing window and supernova just bided his time until that window closed. Nothing else to add, hongun played extremely risky, but supernova failed hard and lost it. Btw NA GM is of the same level as EU PLATINUM, so stop being such an elitist, because you arent. lol NA GM is not EU Platinum, THAT is the most elitist, stupid comment I've ever seen. And btw, the supposed Grand Master Sleec is from Australia, which is on SEA, which is pretty weak though. In other words: he is a plat in EU and says that's the equivalent to North America GM because he doesn't want to admit your game knowledge is better. Stop making assumptions as to what peoples intentions are. Im masters on EU, and actually, most of the GM NA players are even below silver calibre. Deezer comes to mind, combatex comes to mind... shall i go on? GM NA sucks and thats all there is to tell about it. Just a bunch of allining noobs that go for 1 base plays and try to get some ladder points. You just named 2 cheaters and hackers... Sorry to disappoint you but there arent any good macro players on NA GM except the occasional pro you can face. And even most of them arent that good. Minigun comes to mind... shall i go on? GM NA is nowhere near EU bronze.
So what's your B.net profile? Link pls
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On July 05 2011 22:39 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:31 Cheerio wrote:
Sleec is right. If Nova somehow knew there were no stalkers and started to hunt colossi it would have been just another game episode with initiative on his side but certainly too minor to decide the winner. Sleec is indeed right. Hongun couldve ran the colossi away upon spotting the incoming vikings. Hongun couldve warped in a round of stalkers. Hongun has obs there to spot for it early. The map layout meant the distance from natural to natural (army to army) is fairly long. A viking suicide mission like that would be much more effective on say, Xel Naga 3base vs 3base where armies are close. On top of that, to do that as T you have to be 100% sure you didnt miss any stalkers (and how can you be that?) and you also have to actively look for it. I mean, normally you always expect there to be stalkers, to actually notice the lack of them and act accordingly isnt as easy as it sounds. Imagine how stupid Supernova would look if he went in with 8-10 viking all on their own and lose them all for the cost of one colossi.... That wouldve been a hilariously bad move, and Supernova couldnt be sure that wasnt gonna happen.
And HongUn knew that and took advantage of it. SuperNova also had no idea when HongUn stopped Phoenix production. It was a smart calculated risk. I'm fine with Tastosis misanalyzing but then calling the players sloppy and the game "bad" was uncalled for.
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I like the logic though, a Bronze player shouldn't comment on GSL games, because they're no where near the skill level of them. Well a Master player shouldn't comment either because they're no where near that skill level either.
That's like saying, hoho, this Football announcer should shut his mouth these football players are way better than him.
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On July 05 2011 22:43 kheldorin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:39 Kreb wrote:On July 05 2011 22:31 Cheerio wrote:
Sleec is right. If Nova somehow knew there were no stalkers and started to hunt colossi it would have been just another game episode with initiative on his side but certainly too minor to decide the winner. Sleec is indeed right. Hongun couldve ran the colossi away upon spotting the incoming vikings. Hongun couldve warped in a round of stalkers. Hongun has obs there to spot for it early. The map layout meant the distance from natural to natural (army to army) is fairly long. A viking suicide mission like that would be much more effective on say, Xel Naga 3base vs 3base where armies are close. On top of that, to do that as T you have to be 100% sure you didnt miss any stalkers (and how can you be that?) and you also have to actively look for it. I mean, normally you always expect there to be stalkers, to actually notice the lack of them and act accordingly isnt as easy as it sounds. Imagine how stupid Supernova would look if he went in with 8-10 viking all on their own and lose them all for the cost of one colossi.... That wouldve been a hilariously bad move, and Supernova couldnt be sure that wasnt gonna happen. And HongUn knew that and took advantage of it. SuperNova also had no idea when HongUn stopped Phoenix production. It was a smart calculated risk. I'm fine with Tastosis misanalyzing but then calling the players sloppy and the game "bad" was uncalled for.
It wasn't misanalyzing. It was just the fact that HongUn went for an extremely risky build and Supernova should have sensed it. There were so many times he dropped the main and never saw any anti-air and he knew there was Colossus yet didn't at least poke. It was a nearly 5 minute window.
I still don't buy the fact that it was a well thought out build... HongUn's just known for very unconventional and risky builds and Tastosis are merely calling him out on that.
EDIT: Erm, Supernova destroyed the Stargate in his first drop. He knew there weren't any more Phoenix. Or he could at least safely assume.
Also he could have lured the Colossus with a drop and sniped them with the Vikings. There were so many times the Colossus (and the lack-of-anti-air army) chased drops, but Supernova never capitalized.
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On July 05 2011 22:43 mikyaJ wrote:
I like the logic though, a Bronze player shouldn't comment on GSL games, because they're no where near the skill level of them. Well a Master player shouldn't comment either because they're no where near that skill level either.
That's like saying, hoho, this Football announcer should shut his mouth these football players are way better than him.
A bronze player is a bronze player because they literally have no understanding of the game, they don't even understand build orders or what unit counters what. A better comparison would be an infant trying to criticize an adult.
A masters player at least understands the game enough to realize what is going on.
And the football announcer thing is completely irrelevant to all of that, because a football announcer would be the same as an esports commentator. Their job is to understand the game (even though Tastosis failed to do that in this case, hence the criticism) so they will have more specialized knowledge. And most of them are okay at the game minus Totalbiscuit being forever gold.
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EPT
