On July 01 2011 14:14 Miah121 wrote: I find it pretty funny that Sheth supporters were so happy that Puzzle beat MMA, then Puzzle just outplays him.
...? why is that funny?
Because they (like 6 people in the prior LR thread) thought Puzzle would be an easier opponent than MMA.
and who says he wasn't?
sheth was damn close to winning that 2nd game..
No he wasn't. His control simply isn't good enough to even beat 100 supply with 150, hence why he lost all his overlords (which is what ultimately cost him the game.)
the only answer i can see vs this blink is mass spines, but 50 supply up? if the idra vs MC game showed anything either its that you need to be more supply up or catch the toss not paying attention or something.
that kind of supply difference doesn't mean anything when zerg is making roaches anyways
also i don't know how people say he wasnt close to stopping that, I guess they watched a different game than I did
what should the zerg be making though? pure roach obviously isn't working, hydras don't come fast enough, infestors arn't fast enough, speedling/roach just doesn't seem to work either, and idk if even mass spine would work since with blink you can probably just pick off the spines then blink away.
i really want to see how nestea holds it because i see no way to atm n yes i am jw not a imba discussion w/e.
Only thing I saw as a weakness was the no obs. Sheth could have taken that period to get hydras. He was always on creep because there was only one point of attack and he was more limited by his larva then his resources. Against the 7 gate + obs. Not sure dude
On July 01 2011 14:14 minhbq299 wrote: PUzzle is fucking MC's class even better
Win a game vs sheth and now you're better than MC...lol.
It's a pretty ridiculous comparison, but he did beat MMA as well.
Yeah in a matchup he has a 41 percent winrate in.
I dont why you guys dont admit that Puzzle is S class player. I dont say sheth is bad, but he got outplayed this game. Stop coming up with excuses for your favorite player or race, while ignoring other guy play well even MMA get outplayed by the kid. And before the ro32, a lot of koreans pro predict puzzle will win mma, because puzzle have a scary reputation on ladder.
On July 01 2011 14:26 skullhoof wrote: Beating someone good once doesn't mean you are at his level, winning only championship prove your skill
so what you're saying is the rest of code s besides oGsMC, IMNesTea, and IMMvp are the only ones with skill? (those are the only three that have won Code S twice and PoltPrime 1 championship)
flawed logic you have there.
He's saying that by winning an entire championship, you prove your superiority in the field. Winning 1 series is not enough to declare you a better player.
I dunno, people just assume because the units don't move at like 30000movespeed that it isn't apm intensive to micro.
Just watch some of the MC vs XiaoT games during the recent Chinese tournaments where there were 400+apm battles during 4gate vs 4gate. Just because YOU think it doesn't take that much APM doesn't mean it does, these are players with some of the best micro in the game (Puzzle, MC and XiaoT), Sheth almost had that game won playing at a 1/3rd of the APM, which says a lot really, someone a lot better like NesTea could have held that off. Would it be easy? Obviously not, but that is why people like MC, Puzzle, NesTea,etc are as good as they are.
On July 01 2011 14:19 GhostFall wrote: I think sheth would've held if he didnt lose his overlords in the middle of the big battle. that was the deciding factor. At least this gives him something to work.
When engaging in a fight, spend 2 extra APM to double click all overlords near battle, and run them away.
this - and not building one sporecrawler/lord to deny the obs from seeing the burrowed roaches, which made burrow absolutely ineffective almost throughout the whole battle...
He did have a spore, but it got sniped about halfway through. Not that it mattered anyway, because Puzzle had a great obs placement. It was close enough to give him vision of the relevant area, but not within sight range of the spore.
he did kill the obs i believe. Puzzle remade one before pushing into Sheth's main if you looked at the production tab. He had a spore at each base I think. I saw spores making before the push in the prod tab
On July 01 2011 14:26 skullhoof wrote: Beating someone good once doesn't mean you are at his level, winning only championship prove your skill
so what you're saying is the rest of code s besides oGsMC, IMNesTea, and IMMvp are the only ones with skill? (those are the only three that have won Code S twice and PoltPrime 1 championship)
On July 01 2011 14:14 minhbq299 wrote: PUzzle is fucking MC's class even better
Win a game vs sheth and now you're better than MC...lol.
It's a pretty ridiculous comparison, but he did beat MMA as well.
Yeah in a matchup he has a 41 percent winrate in.
I dont why you guys dont admit that Puzzle is S class player. I dont say sheth is bad, but he got outplayed this game. Stop coming up with excuses for your favorite player or race, while ignoring other guy play well even MMA get outplayed by the kid. And before the ro32, a lot of koreans pro predict puzzle will win mma, because puzzle have a scary reputation on ladder.
you dont need to call everything puzzle does "outplaying". going 8 gate blink stalkers isn't exactly outplaying. LOL
On July 01 2011 14:22 Canucklehead wrote: That was some top 3 blink micro in the world man.
Why do people always overhype blink stalker micro? It wasn't even that good, he often blinked back clumps of stalkers, a few of which didn't need to be blinked back yet.
This. And he lost a bunch of stalkers he shouldnt have by not blinking them back when he could have
Maybe the blink cooldown has something to do with that.
No. I'm talking about stalkers in the front line that he blatantly missed when blinking backwards and were definitely not on cooldown.
His micro was average, certainly not impressive for a top progamer. The killer was the fact that he had 1000000000 blink stalkers vs roaches
Okay Mr. Godlike Blinker, go to Korea and show puzzle how it's done.
Ah, heres that flawless logic again. If you critique someone you must first be better than them.
And if you want me to be honest? I think i could have blinked better than that. I'm certain any good Protoss player you'll ask will agree that the blinks in that game were only average. Not that they needed to be more. Puzzle didn't need immaculate blinks because he had overwhelming forces. But this discussion originated from the fact that Puzzle also had 730 APM. Which is absolutely 500 APM of spam given what he was going. Blinking back groups and warping in efficiently takes 250 apm, tops, and even then youre still spamming clicks and x. Might take more if he wasl ike, maxed on stalkers, but there was only a moderate amount of stalkers to manage there
On July 01 2011 14:14 minhbq299 wrote: PUzzle is fucking MC's class even better
Win a game vs sheth and now you're better than MC...lol.
It's a pretty ridiculous comparison, but he did beat MMA as well.
Yeah in a matchup he has a 41 percent winrate in.
I dont why you guys dont admit that Puzzle is S class player. I dont say sheth is bad, but he got outplayed this game. Stop coming up with excuses for your favorite player or race, while ignoring other guy play well even MMA get outplayed by the kid. And before the ro32, a lot of koreans pro predict puzzle will win mma, because puzzle have a scary reputation on ladder.
You said he's better than MC. I never said he was bad.
On July 01 2011 14:14 Miah121 wrote: I find it pretty funny that Sheth supporters were so happy that Puzzle beat MMA, then Puzzle just outplays him.
...? why is that funny?
Because they (like 6 people in the prior LR thread) thought Puzzle would be an easier opponent than MMA.
and who says he wasn't?
sheth was damn close to winning that 2nd game..
No he wasn't. His control simply isn't good enough to even beat 100 supply with 150, hence why he lost all his overlords (which is what ultimately cost him the game.)
the only answer i can see vs this blink is mass spines, but 50 supply up? if the idra vs MC game showed anything either its that you need to be more supply up or catch the toss not paying attention or something.
that kind of supply difference doesn't mean anything when zerg is making roaches anyways
also i don't know how people say he wasnt close to stopping that, I guess they watched a different game than I did
what should the zerg be making though? pure roach obviously isn't working, hydras don't come fast enough, infestors arn't fast enough, speedling/roach just doesn't seem to work either, and idk if even mass spine would work since with blink you can probably just pick off the spines then blink away.
i really want to see how nestea holds it because i see no way to atm n yes i am jw not a imba discussion w/e.
Only thing I saw as a weakness was the no obs. Sheth could have taken that period to get hydras. He was always on creep because there was only one point of attack and he was more limited by his larva then his resources. Against the 7 gate + obs. Not sure dude
are you stupid or not? are you bronze league. 8 gate all in is much different to 7 gate + 1 robo then take time to build an obs. It does not hit the timing ?
On July 01 2011 14:24 Supamang wrote: Losing overlords during battle like that has even worse effects for Zerg than losing pylons or depots does for Ts and Ps. When Sheth is already scrambling to get enough roaches out to stop the blink stalks, not only is he supply blocked but he also has to spend those precious Larvae to recover the supply.
Terrans and Protoss dont have to block up their production line to remake their depots and pylons but Zerg loses production capabilities temporarily by having to spend larvae on overlords. Sheth not telling his overlords to back the fuck off really cost him the game there
or you can rally you ovies manually so they dont die you know
uh...yeah. thats exactly what the fuck i was saying.
do you even read the whole post before posting a knee-jerk remark? Its like you read "Losing overlords is worse for Zerg" and you automatically felt the need to retort
On July 01 2011 14:26 skullhoof wrote: Beating someone good once doesn't mean you are at his level, winning only championship prove your skill
so what you're saying is the rest of code s besides oGsMC, IMNesTea, and IMMvp are the only ones with skill? (those are the only three that have won Code S twice and PoltPrime 1 championship)
flawed logic you have there.
And Fruitdealer!! He's still a gamer!! lol GSL1 still counts!
On July 01 2011 14:22 Canucklehead wrote: That was some top 3 blink micro in the world man.
Why do people always overhype blink stalker micro? It wasn't even that good, he often blinked back clumps of stalkers, a few of which didn't need to be blinked back yet.
This. And he lost a bunch of stalkers he shouldnt have by not blinking them back when he could have
Maybe the blink cooldown has something to do with that.
No. I'm talking about stalkers in the front line that he blatantly missed when blinking backwards and were definitely not on cooldown.
His micro was average, certainly not impressive for a top progamer. The killer was the fact that he had 1000000000 blink stalkers vs roaches
average? some people have weird impressions of average. If you have 12-15 stalkers and put packs back - it's average.
If you have 40 then it's ok to take sometimes 2 or 3 stalkers back i guess....
On July 01 2011 14:27 Ocedic wrote: They need to stop showing which players are playing. These balance whiners only care because a white person lost. If Sheth was a Korean they'd be talking about how bad he is and how good Puzzle is.
It's called support. Why are you making such a big deal?
There's a difference between supporting ("Was hoping Sheth would win gg though") and being a biased ignorant fanboy ("Waaaaah blink stalkers waaah puzzle sucks!")
Ah, gotcha. Well, I guess I've missed those "whining posts." But I do understand what you're trying to say.
EPT
gg though") and being a biased ignorant fanboy ("Waaaaah blink stalkers waaah puzzle sucks!")
