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On June 28 2011 17:04 mikyaJ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2011 17:01 Dante08 wrote:
Code A is too fucking brutal. Imagine when the SC1 pros switch over, so many top players might be left out trying to qualify. Gom needs to make it RO64 imo Code A is not brutal. Mvp and Bomber shot right to the finals the second they got into Code A. As did Losira. As did Alicia (to the Semi's actually). Code A is not brutal, the qualification process is. But it's the same in BW though, they have offline prelims to. As a matter of fact, Bisu, Zero, and a few other great players got knocked out in the Dual Tournament for this OSL (i.e. reeeeeeeeeeeally early for them). When two Code-S caliber players have to duke it out in the Ro32 you have to recognize that Code-A is pretty damned tough.
But then we get games like Yoda vs Min and I wonder about the quality of Code A.
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On June 28 2011 16:57 kratos-23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:52 Koshi wrote:
MMA should just go back to MLG, repeat and get to Code S for free. winning mlg is not for free.
Everything happens for free when it's Moletrap commentating it. That being said, MMA should have already gotten Rain's spot. The only reason MLG Columbus winner didn't get a code S spot was because the GSL May relegation matches didn't account for the need of an extra spot.
No reason to hate on MMA. When 90% of the good players in GSL are terran, and you're very strong at TvT, you obviously are not a bad player. Puzzle is a sick player though, can't wait to see his other matchups on stage, poor Sheth. Nobody should be able to beat a good protoss like that by cutting corners and not being prepared for DTs.
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Hype for these upcoming GSL seasons is so huge, if HuK, FXOpen and Jinro advance things are going to blow up here in the foreigner scene.
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On June 28 2011 17:08 Gorlin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 17:03 Femari wrote:On June 28 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:
I think maybe we need to differentiate between "overhyped" and "overrated"? I don't think MMA is overrated, for instance, but I do think he's been ridiculously overhyped. And, well, overhyping tends to create lots of anti-fans; some people don't like to see "[Player] is the next bonjwa!" shoved down their throats every single time they enter a thread. This pretty much. You win something, you're suddenly like 100x more dominant than oov or sAviOr and you're gonna win the next 4 events and be a bonjwa. That's irrational fanboy talk and it should be ignored and never taken into consideration to actually determine whether or not someone is overrated. I'd agree with babylon's point about the difference between "overhyped" and "overrated" and that he may be overhyped, but I also don't think it's so simple to definitively say if a player is overhyped, since your example is extremely over the top. If a player is overhyped, it's for a reason.
I disagree. The word "overhyped" implies a hype beyond reason. People don't mind a player being hyped, e.g. "He won MLG, he's got great things coming" or "He did really well lately, he should have this". It gets kinda annoying when people go "HE WILL CRUSH EVERYONE, HE'S THE NEXT BONJWA" because he did well in team leagues and MLG.
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United States7116 Posts
Ugh, I hate how people just jump on all of the negative aspects of MMA when they're determined to hate on him. Oh, he lost 4-0 to Polt, oh, he hasn't beaten MVP or Bomber yet, oh, he lost in the first round of the 3D LG tournament, oh, he lost his ace match in the team league. Yeah, you can list all that and make MMA sound terrible. Then you can also say that he won MLG, got SECOND place in the ST which is no small feat (taking out MKP on his way, I might add, in a great comeback), and has won the ace match for his team in extremely high-pressure situations numerous times. MMA isn't the best player ever for sure, but he's pretty damn strong. Right when MMA screws up, people come out of the woodworks to take a dump on him. Puzzle is a pretty strong player, and so is MMA. Though, I can understand why he's garnered so many anti-fans due to the ridiculous hyping. I felt the same way about MKP a long while ago after his GSL 2 run, but MKP has definitely grown as a player since then.
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For all the people that were defending GunRun saying "derp this is his first time!!11!", allow me to present you QXC, who was eccentric, interesting, sometimes funny, sometimes not funny, generally illuminating and more or less excellent his first time out. This is what I, a HARSH critic of casters, want. This is what Gretorp, GunRun, Moletrap and others lack. Wolf and QXC were easily the best Code A casters I've heard so far.
Cheers, QXC. Nice work bud.
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On June 28 2011 17:10 Danyl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 17:04 mikyaJ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2011 17:01 Dante08 wrote:
Code A is too fucking brutal. Imagine when the SC1 pros switch over, so many top players might be left out trying to qualify. Gom needs to make it RO64 imo Code A is not brutal. Mvp and Bomber shot right to the finals the second they got into Code A. As did Losira. As did Alicia (to the Semi's actually). Code A is not brutal, the qualification process is. But it's the same in BW though, they have offline prelims to. As a matter of fact, Bisu, Zero, and a few other great players got knocked out in the Dual Tournament for this OSL (i.e. reeeeeeeeeeeally early for them). When two Code-S caliber players have to duke it out in the Ro32 you have to recognize that Code-A is pretty damned tough. But then we get games like Yoda vs Min and I wonder about the quality of Code A.
Yea, brutal isn't probably the right word. More like unlucky seedings. It is just brutal for the audience to watch because they all know both of the players deserve to at least advance past the first round.
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On June 28 2011 16:45 NickelMail wrote:
Its absurd arguing MMA is over-rated. Totally absurd.
He put Slayers on his back to win two GSTL titles, under tremendous pressure always being the last man Slayers put in. He won MLG convincingly. He came second place in the ST.
The only players in the world who have accomplished more than this are MC, MVP, Nestea, and maybe MKP. Thats it. Thats the list.
maybe mkp?
mkp got 3 runner ups. no one in gsl has done that.
plus mkp's more consistent than mma.
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United States97275 Posts
On June 28 2011 17:01 kusto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:42 usethis2 wrote:
If anything Puzzle played safe probably expecting MMA's rush/cheese, and won with superior macro and strategy. It was standard 2rax pressure, that's no cheese, and certainly not a rush.
It's not worth arguing. I just played a ladder game where I opened with 2rax pressure and ended up with 3 base bio army with maxed out upgrades and was told that Im an all inning noob. People claim every time a banshee or a DT appears on the map it's cheese. It's a pointless argument
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On June 28 2011 17:12 IPA wrote:
For all the people that were defending GunRun saying "derp this is his first time!!11!", allow me to present you QXC, who was eccentric, interesting, sometimes funny, sometimes not funny, generally illuminating and more or less excellent his first time out. This is what I, a HARSH critic of casters, want. This is what Gretorp, GunRun, Moletrap and others lack. Wolf and QXC were easily the best Code A casters I've heard so far.
Cheers, QXC. Nice work bud.
I would like to throw this post my support. Qxc and Wolf did an excellent job casting. Wolf also performed quite well in the ST and I'm loving him as a caster -- keep him around.
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On June 28 2011 17:01 kusto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:42 usethis2 wrote:
If anything Puzzle played safe probably expecting MMA's rush/cheese, and won with superior macro and strategy. It was standard 2rax pressure, that's no cheese, and certainly not a rush.
Since when marine+SCV is standard in TvP?? And I was responding to other people saying how puzzle took advantage of MMA's greedy opening. Well, that argument doesn't bode well with marine/scv rush (MMA) v. 3-gate expand (Puzzle).
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On June 28 2011 17:13 Codeskye wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:45 NickelMail wrote:
Its absurd arguing MMA is over-rated. Totally absurd.
He put Slayers on his back to win two GSTL titles, under tremendous pressure always being the last man Slayers put in. He won MLG convincingly. He came second place in the ST.
The only players in the world who have accomplished more than this are MC, MVP, Nestea, and maybe MKP. Thats it. Thats the list. maybe mkp? mkp got 3 runner ups. no one in gsl has done that. plus mkp's more consistent than mma.
He hasn't won anything. You must win, its part of competitive sports. So yes, maybe MKP.
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On June 28 2011 17:13 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 17:10 Danyl wrote:On June 28 2011 17:04 mikyaJ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2011 17:01 Dante08 wrote:
Code A is too fucking brutal. Imagine when the SC1 pros switch over, so many top players might be left out trying to qualify. Gom needs to make it RO64 imo Code A is not brutal. Mvp and Bomber shot right to the finals the second they got into Code A. As did Losira. As did Alicia (to the Semi's actually). Code A is not brutal, the qualification process is. But it's the same in BW though, they have offline prelims to. As a matter of fact, Bisu, Zero, and a few other great players got knocked out in the Dual Tournament for this OSL (i.e. reeeeeeeeeeeally early for them). When two Code-S caliber players have to duke it out in the Ro32 you have to recognize that Code-A is pretty damned tough. But then we get games like Yoda vs Min and I wonder about the quality of Code A. Yea, brutal isn't probably the right word. More like unlucky seedings. It is just brutal for the audience to watch because they all know both of the players deserve to at least advance past the first round.
Well remaking it to a 64 man tourney wouldn't fix that. You'd still have people get knocked out in the first round. And they would have to re-qualify. (regarding the OP ofc)
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On June 28 2011 17:15 Danyl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 17:12 IPA wrote:
For all the people that were defending GunRun saying "derp this is his first time!!11!", allow me to present you QXC, who was eccentric, interesting, sometimes funny, sometimes not funny, generally illuminating and more or less excellent his first time out. This is what I, a HARSH critic of casters, want. This is what Gretorp, GunRun, Moletrap and others lack. Wolf and QXC were easily the best Code A casters I've heard so far.
Cheers, QXC. Nice work bud. I would like to throw this post my support. Qxc and Wolf did an excellent job casting. Wolf also performed quite well in the ST and I'm loving him as a caster -- keep him around.
+1
I don't want qxc as a full time caster though, as good as he was, he is a person I want to see playing 
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On June 28 2011 17:12 IPA wrote:
For all the people that were defending GunRun saying "derp this is his first time!!11!", allow me to present you QXC, who was eccentric, interesting, sometimes funny, sometimes not funny, generally illuminating and more or less excellent his first time out. This is what I, a HARSH critic of casters, want. This is what Gretorp, GunRun, Moletrap and others lack. Wolf and QXC were easily the best Code A casters I've heard so far.
Cheers, QXC. Nice work bud.
definitely. casting is a service, and we shouldn't be made to feel bad for demanding skilled casters. QXC fits the bill.
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I just would like to point out, that almost everyone watches professional sports (not only esports) because of the possible bonjwa's, Jordan, Tiger Woods, Flash, sAviOr, Schumacher you name it, they bring a sense of wonder and excitement to any sport.
Thats all we are looking for when we become fan boys, we want to see that one player who is magical and who can do things we have never seen before, what is so wrong with wanting to see that?
and you know what, Jordan was crap at baseball, Tiger woods lost his mojo, Flash's wrist is fucked, sAviOr lost his skills and started cheating, schumacher is now long way down the list, it doesnt matter who you are they all eventually fall, and some of them have rocky starts too. stop being so fucking dramatic everytime someone win's or loses and just enjoy the sport.
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On June 28 2011 17:11 Lorizean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 17:08 Gorlin wrote:On June 28 2011 17:03 Femari wrote:On June 28 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:
I think maybe we need to differentiate between "overhyped" and "overrated"? I don't think MMA is overrated, for instance, but I do think he's been ridiculously overhyped. And, well, overhyping tends to create lots of anti-fans; some people don't like to see "[Player] is the next bonjwa!" shoved down their throats every single time they enter a thread. This pretty much. You win something, you're suddenly like 100x more dominant than oov or sAviOr and you're gonna win the next 4 events and be a bonjwa. That's irrational fanboy talk and it should be ignored and never taken into consideration to actually determine whether or not someone is overrated. I'd agree with babylon's point about the difference between "overhyped" and "overrated" and that he may be overhyped, but I also don't think it's so simple to definitively say if a player is overhyped, since your example is extremely over the top. If a player is overhyped, it's for a reason. I disagree. The word " overhyped" implies a hype beyond reason. People don't mind a player being hyped, e.g. "He won MLG, he's got great things coming" or "He did really well lately, he should have this". It gets kinda annoying when people go "HE WILL CRUSH EVERYONE, HE'S THE NEXT BONJWA" because he did well in team leagues and MLG.
Yes I realize that, but what I was saying is that it's not so simple to label a player as "overhyped" rather than just "hyped" since people don't actually claim (for the most part, I guess maybe some people do?) that he's the next bonjwa.
edit: And I think the post above me makes a great point.
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On June 28 2011 17:15 NickelMail wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 17:13 Codeskye wrote:On June 28 2011 16:45 NickelMail wrote:
Its absurd arguing MMA is over-rated. Totally absurd.
He put Slayers on his back to win two GSTL titles, under tremendous pressure always being the last man Slayers put in. He won MLG convincingly. He came second place in the ST.
The only players in the world who have accomplished more than this are MC, MVP, Nestea, and maybe MKP. Thats it. Thats the list. maybe mkp? mkp got 3 runner ups. no one in gsl has done that. plus mkp's more consistent than mma. He hasn't won anything. You must win, its part of competitive sports. So yes, maybe MKP.
MMA didn't win either. MLG =/= Gainward. It equals MLG. People don't talk about MC winning Copenhagen and DHI when they include his credentials do they? I hope not. This is why we have seperate TLP data bases.
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On June 28 2011 17:17 Gorlin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 17:11 Lorizean wrote:On June 28 2011 17:08 Gorlin wrote:On June 28 2011 17:03 Femari wrote:On June 28 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:
I think maybe we need to differentiate between "overhyped" and "overrated"? I don't think MMA is overrated, for instance, but I do think he's been ridiculously overhyped. And, well, overhyping tends to create lots of anti-fans; some people don't like to see "[Player] is the next bonjwa!" shoved down their throats every single time they enter a thread. This pretty much. You win something, you're suddenly like 100x more dominant than oov or sAviOr and you're gonna win the next 4 events and be a bonjwa. That's irrational fanboy talk and it should be ignored and never taken into consideration to actually determine whether or not someone is overrated. I'd agree with babylon's point about the difference between "overhyped" and "overrated" and that he may be overhyped, but I also don't think it's so simple to definitively say if a player is overhyped, since your example is extremely over the top. If a player is overhyped, it's for a reason. I disagree. The word " overhyped" implies a hype beyond reason. People don't mind a player being hyped, e.g. "He won MLG, he's got great things coming" or "He did really well lately, he should have this". It gets kinda annoying when people go "HE WILL CRUSH EVERYONE, HE'S THE NEXT BONJWA" because he did well in team leagues and MLG. Yes I realize that, but what I was saying is that it's not so simple to label a player as "overhyped" rather than just "hyped" since people don't actually claim (for the most part, I guess maybe some people do?) that he's the next bonjwa.
Oh, my bad, you DID say that I agree.
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Ahh I forgot to say earlier... very good casting by qxc! I would love to see him cast again.
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EPT
