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On June 28 2011 16:39 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:30 Ansinjunger wrote:On June 28 2011 16:27 Rayansaki wrote:Poll: Recommend MMA vs Puzzle game 2 ?Yes (42) 66% No (16) 25% If you have time (6) 9% 64 total votes Your vote: Recommend MMA vs Puzzle game 2 ? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
On June 28 2011 16:23 kodas wrote:On June 28 2011 16:23 -swordguy wrote:
Think I became a fan of puzzle, very solid play ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Come on, drop the fanboyism, both games were brilliantly played by puzzle, and both were fantastic games why do they have so many No votes ;> IM should steal this guy, he's not zenex material. I was just wondering why the games have so many yes votes. DT's killing scv's and securing a huge lead isn't very exciting. All of the hair raising stuff in game 1 was done by MMA. I voted no simply to offset all the MMA haters. What has the guy ever done to deserve hate? Get fans? Beat MKP? That's MKP's problem, just as not having turrets was MMA's problem. Because fanboys hype MMA as a master of the universe after winning MLG and beating 5 terrans in ST. Yes I got a problem with that. TvT godlike not, 0-4 Polt, plz beat mvp and Bomber . TvZ awesome not, have fun beating LosirA. TvP bad, sure, but I'd say disastrous. What else does he got ? Sure I love his multitasking, multiprongs drop, clutch plays but that do not save the day. Some may say even DRG or StC arent in Code A, but once they are in code A, I can only see them go straight for the championship (see Bomber), not dropping out like this
rofl how can you say that when they dropped out like this in code B
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sheth wins, mma loses. good day
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On June 28 2011 16:54 Gorlin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:33 mikyaJ wrote:On June 28 2011 16:30 Gorlin wrote:On June 28 2011 16:25 WindCalibur wrote:
MMA overrated. Can't believe he lost to dts twice. A turret isn't just for DTs you know. It can be used to deny the ob seeing your army size. How is runner up in the ST, winner of MLG, and MVP of the past two GSTLs overrated... Because, MLG is just a competition of which Korean wins now. He only beat Losira and July (only in the sense of only 2 players), two Zergs, yes his TvZ is quite awesome. In the Super Tournament he got to the finals on all TvT. Bullshit. MVP of the past two GSTLs great. That's Team Leagues. Not Individual Leagues. They do not correlate. He's overrated because blind people expected him just roll over this Protoss. But non fan boys would have actually predicted this win, just like b_unnies did. Your first point is silly and does nothing to support the idea that MMA is overrated, since even if it is a "competition of which Korean wins now", which is dumb to say since he still won it and defeated great players along the way, as you pointed out. Your next point about getting to the finals on TvT being bullshit is also stupid, since although it is lucky since his TvT is great, it does not prove that he's overrated (furthermore, you have now established that MMA has a fantastic TvZ and TvT. This isn't Inca we're dealing with, you established that he's awesome at 2/3 matchups, which even a player like MVP has been labelled as). As for saying team leagues and individual leagues do not correlate, that is also fucking retarded. First of all, I'll point out that the argument people (probably including you) had for Puzzle being so gosu is that he did so well in the Zotac tournament and shit. But wait, that's a team league isn't it? Surely the skill would not transfer to his individual league performances! Oh wait, you're a moron! Secondly, your original claim, just in case you have forgotten already, is that MMA is overrated. Can you direct me to the sacred site on the internet where it is written that team league performance cannot be taken into account when rating a player? I'm guessing not. Your final claim is equally absurd. Even players who are not fans of MMA (which I admit to being) would not go into that match calling the unproven player the favorite. b_unnies did so because he talked to a lot of pros and was able to gather the intelligence that Puzzle is a solid player, so don't go jacking yourself off about your stellar insight that is unique to non-MMA fans which told you that this previously crappy player who only splashed a second rate team league would "dominate" MMA. Fuck I get way into this stuff.
I know I sound like dick for saying this--but Puzzle (despite winning a bunch of team league games) still has a losing record when it comes to GSL live matches... We're talking 2 out of 6 games won. At those numbers we can say Puzzle's PvWhatever is only slightly better than Inca's PvZ of 0-8
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Could not watch the games, what happend to MMA? He used super greedy tech + expands openings like against polt and died in the early game?
Well i guess MMA's loss increases the chances of Sheth for the next round, since MMMA is an absolute beast TvZ, not that bad Sheth to the up/down would be so fcking huge :D
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I think maybe we need to differentiate between "overhyped" and "overrated"? I don't think MMA is overrated, for instance, but I do think he's been ridiculously overhyped. And, well, overhyping tends to create lots of anti-fans; some people don't like to see "[Player] is the next bonjwa!" shoved down their throats every single time they enter a thread.
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On June 28 2011 16:53 mikyaJ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:45 NickelMail wrote:
Its absurd arguing MMA is over-rated. Totally absurd.
He put Slayers on his back to win two GSTL titles, under tremendous pressure always being the last man Slayers put in. He won MLG convincingly. He came second place in the ST.
The only players in the world who have accomplished more than this are MC, MVP, Nestea, and maybe MKP. Thats it. Thats the list. Inca got a 2nd place. Rain did too. So did Rainbow. So did July. So did MKP (three times!). MLG doesn't matter to the Korean scene, it's an international tourney. It's pretty much a competition from now on of which Korean wins it. And about the GSTL, great, FANTASTIC. But team league success =/= individual league success. Never has, never will. Btw MMA got knocked out first round of the LG 3d Tournament. Many supporters seem to just sweep that under the rug.
Good argument, LOL. MLG doesn't matter, and GSTL, yeah that doesn't matter either. i can do the same thing, watch:
"MC isn't really that good, his last two GSL's he's done nothing, his last 3 foreign appearances he's failed to make it to the finals. In fact MC has won nothing in Months, just a bunch of non-impressive results. very over-rated"
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MMA is taking the same path as MKP did, TvZ wonder, TvT ok, and TvP bad.
Now MKP has great everything.
Byt the way, pretty nice morning of work for me :D
On June 28 2011 07:30 MrCon wrote:
Pinn odds are making me want to bet on all underdogs tomorrow.
Mon 6/27 1017 TheWinD +1.5 2.180 3.910
09:15 PM 1018 Tails -1.5 1.725 1.278
Mon 6/27 1021 San -1.5 2.400 1.429
09:50 PM 1022 Sheth +1.5 1.606 2.950
Mon 6/27 1023 MMA -1.5 2.150 1.448
10:30 PM 1024 Puzzle +1.5 1.746 2.870
Betting on all 3 underdogs in code A. I need one of 3 to break even.
Too bad TheWind didn't finished Tails with the 6 pool, one game away from hiting the jackpot.
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Code A is too fucking brutal. Imagine when the SC1 pros switch over, so many top players might be left out trying to qualify. Gom needs to make it RO64 imo
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On June 28 2011 17:00 NickelMail wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:53 mikyaJ wrote:On June 28 2011 16:45 NickelMail wrote:
Its absurd arguing MMA is over-rated. Totally absurd.
He put Slayers on his back to win two GSTL titles, under tremendous pressure always being the last man Slayers put in. He won MLG convincingly. He came second place in the ST.
The only players in the world who have accomplished more than this are MC, MVP, Nestea, and maybe MKP. Thats it. Thats the list. Inca got a 2nd place. Rain did too. So did Rainbow. So did July. So did MKP (three times!). MLG doesn't matter to the Korean scene, it's an international tourney. It's pretty much a competition from now on of which Korean wins it. And about the GSTL, great, FANTASTIC. But team league success =/= individual league success. Never has, never will. Btw MMA got knocked out first round of the LG 3d Tournament. Many supporters seem to just sweep that under the rug. Good argument, LOL. MLG doesn't matter, and GSTL, yeah that doesn't matter either. i can do the same thing, watch: "MC isn't really that good, his last two GSL's he's done nothing, his last 3 foreign appearances he's failed to make it to the finals. In fact MC has won nothing in Months, just a bunch of non-impressive results. very over-rated"
sadly that's how some people think and that's something that will be heard
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Russian Federation823 Posts
On June 28 2011 16:42 usethis2 wrote:
If anything Puzzle played safe probably expecting MMA's rush/cheese, and won with superior macro and strategy.
It was standard 2rax pressure, that's no cheese, and certainly not a rush.
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On June 28 2011 16:56 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:34 Caphe wrote:
In the final of Super Tournament, Polt just doesn't give MMA a chance to go to really late game so he can abuse his multi-task.
Umm.. No. MMA's multitasking left alot to be desired by Polt. He couldn't seem to focus on any part of the map. Polt had way better multitasking in that series. All MMA does seems to be sending stuff around and hoping opponents to mess up. (seemingly works well against Z, I thought)
I think the kind of multitasking he was talking about mid to late game when 4+ bases come into play with drops and seige line positionings are happening. All those 4 games in Super final didn't even go beyond two bases. But yea based on those 4 games, Polt played better and was better prepared. But that is to be expected from MMA's weak early games.
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On June 28 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:
I think maybe we need to differentiate between "overhyped" and "overrated"? I don't think MMA is overrated, for instance, but I do think he's been ridiculously overhyped. And, well, overhyping tends to create lots of anti-fans; some people don't like to see "[Player] is the next bonjwa!" shoved down their throats every single time they enter a thread.
This pretty much.
You win something, you're suddenly like 100x more dominant than oov or sAviOr and you're gonna win the next 4 events and be a bonjwa.
That's irrational fanboy talk and it should be ignored and never taken into consideration to actually determine whether or not someone is overrated.
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Russian Federation823 Posts
On June 28 2011 17:01 Dante08 wrote:
Code A is too fucking brutal. Imagine when the SC1 pros switch over, so many top players might be left out trying to qualify. Gom needs to make it RO64 imo
I'm looking forward to it. Expect another wave of B-teamers and practice partners/snipers in a few months switching to SC2 (basically anyone whose contract will be denied ). Then we get a new S-Class and upper A-Class of players.
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On June 28 2011 16:33 Samhax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:27 JKira wrote:On June 28 2011 16:23 Samhax wrote:On June 28 2011 16:20 andaylin wrote:On June 28 2011 16:20 vrok wrote:On June 28 2011 16:18 ribboo wrote:
im gonna start go dt more often Don't. Diamond and master players build turrets in my experience.  except pros, rofl. that's so true...Tarson got dismantle by Huk with the same build...i really can't understand when you are a pro Terran, how you can lose to dt builds when they aren't dropped by warp prism. Are Terran that greedy? Unfortunately, yes they are. When I play TvP with a lot of my friends they randomly have turrets in front of their entrance and main. Pro players don't want to spend that money if they don't have to. It's kind of like newbies building lots of cannons at their entrance cause they are scared. Pros would laugh at that, as they see no reason to do so (make turrets). i'm not talking about making a billions turrets everywhere in your basis, but just 1 turret at your entrance that's it. If it was a dt drop like white ra do often, i can understand but it's just some fucking dts who sneak from your main entrance.i love MMA, but i'm so pissed right now because he lost in a pretty bad fashion way, Puzzle control were not that good, he could have won those games.
Because there's a period of time where Terran has to play blind. Protoss can do who-know-what in their base and Terran will have no idea. Most Terran will prepare for the most common timing push, such as 3 gate fe timing push, 4gate,..... Some players, such as Nada is more afraid of builds such a DTs, that's why he always made turrets, and got crushed by Inca.
It's really a hard period of time, you either put 2 bunkers to defend against 3,4 gates, or 1 bunker + turret to defend dts, and maybe nothing will happens.
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On June 28 2011 17:01 Dante08 wrote:
Code A is too fucking brutal. Imagine when the SC1 pros switch over, so many top players might be left out trying to qualify. Gom needs to make it RO64 imo
Code A is not brutal. Mvp and Bomber shot right to the finals the second they got into Code A. As did Losira. As did Alicia (to the Semi's actually). Code A is not brutal, the qualification process is. But it's the same in BW though, they have offline prelims to. As a matter of fact, Bisu, Zero, and a few other great players got knocked out in the Dual Tournament for this OSL (i.e. reeeeeeeeeeeally early for them).
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can sheth beat puzzle? puzzle looks really strong T_T
im sad cuz mma lost but now I will pour out my soul for sheth
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On June 28 2011 16:55 FXOpen wrote:Puzzle has really good PVT timings. He is being raved about in korea. I am so proud of sheth, and my team right now. Most of us were there to support him. And also to troll qxc whilst he was commentating. Sheth did T(eam) L(iquid) <3(love heart) as his ceremony. Not FXO  we already know he loves FXO Thanks for the support guys. Sheth really appreciates it, as does FXO. GO JINRO!
We love you back Sheth! Awesome show, really happy that he moved through - GO FXO!
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On June 28 2011 17:03 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:
I think maybe we need to differentiate between "overhyped" and "overrated"? I don't think MMA is overrated, for instance, but I do think he's been ridiculously overhyped. And, well, overhyping tends to create lots of anti-fans; some people don't like to see "[Player] is the next bonjwa!" shoved down their throats every single time they enter a thread. This pretty much. You win something, you're suddenly like 100x more dominant than oov or sAviOr and you're gonna win the next 4 events and be a bonjwa. That's irrational fanboy talk and it should be ignored and never taken into consideration to actually determine whether or not someone is overrated.
I'd agree with babylon's point about the difference between "overhyped" and "overrated" and that he may be overhyped, but I also don't think it's so simple to definitively say if a player is overhyped, since your example is extremely over the top. If a player is overhyped, it's for a reason.
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On June 28 2011 17:01 Dante08 wrote:
Code A is too fucking brutal. Imagine when the SC1 pros switch over, so many top players might be left out trying to qualify. Gom needs to make it RO64 imo
Yea exactly agree with this 100%. The whole Code S, Code A, Code B division is kind of just really irrelevant aside from giving the lucky players remaining in Code S more money. I mean lets face it, most of the code A players, and some unlucky Code B players like DRG, can easily take a Bo3 from most of the Code S players; Super Tournament proved that. I really don't see how the current division set up is any better than just a RO64 play, especially for a volatile game like SC2.
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Well MMA's result isnt that surprising, his TvP seems quite lackluster, the last two TvP we seen of him was vs KiwiKaki at MLG, he won, but as much as we love Kiwi hes not really on the level of korean protosses, and Huk in the up/down matched which he lost to.
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EPT
