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Okay we're going to start cracking down on people bashing players for no reason. You don't have to like every player, but at least show some respect. (as of page 402) |
Polt Prime is better than the vast majority of players in MLG.
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On June 05 2011 11:27 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:25 oogieogie wrote:On June 05 2011 11:23 Fionn wrote:On June 05 2011 11:21 Crumpet wrote:
I personally don't think a legitimate argument can be made that Koreans are overall ahead in the starcraft 2 scene. However, it is a far cry from the dominance they held in Brood War. The matches between top tier foreigners and top tier Koreans are extremely competitive, and I believe the gap will only continue to narrow as esports grows in the west. Throwing up the series results of the koreans is a bit misleading, as many of them were extremly close series that, in my opinion, could have gone the other way a good 50% of the time. Koreans are still far above most of the world except for a few, but it isn't like BW. In BW, if any foreign player even took a game off someone like Bisu at an international event, it would create an uproar. Here, if someone like MC drops a series to Idra, it's not the same thing. SC2 isn't mechanical enough for there to be such a gap. jw but has there been a uproar caused by a foreigner taking a game off someone like Bisu/Flash/Jaedong or some BW pro? no foreigner has beaten a legit BW pro for a long time now.
no foreigners have been playing bw in korea for a long time now 
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On June 05 2011 11:24 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:22 Blasphemi wrote:On June 05 2011 11:19 SEANSYE wrote:On June 05 2011 11:18 Blasphemi wrote:On June 05 2011 11:10 wei2coolman wrote:On June 05 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On June 05 2011 11:05 wei2coolman wrote:On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote:
So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2
MMA: 5 - 0
July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean)
MC: 4 - 1
Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^; Quit making excuses for Koreans. Freaking hate this. First its the server lags from cross country, then MLG decides to fly Koreans over for LAN, BUT NOOOOO That's not good enough for you. Now they have jet lag. Freaking deal with it. Top foreigners can easily take out Koreans, they aren't fucking Gods. Excuses? Koreans have destroyed foreigners so far. Yeah, you're including the wins of the tier 2 Foreigners, maybe if Gomtv sent over tier 2 koreans, we can start talking about wins and shit. But as far as I'm concerned the Top top foreigners are doing REALLY REALLY well against the Top foreigners, stop trying to feign Korean dominance when there isn't any. Who are the top top foreigners? The pool of top top foreigners seems to change everytime a Korean crushes one of them. Literally the only victory a top foreigner has over a Korean (minus the substandard Moon) is MC/Idra. Compare that with Losira over Incontrol, July over Sjow, MMA over Sjow, MC over Tyler, MC over Select, MC over Thorzain, Losira over TLO, MMA over Kiwikaka, July over Kiwikaki and I really fail to see how 'top foreigners' have competed well at all. This is the part where you pretend players like Select and Kiwikaki are not top foreigners so go ahead. I think most people agree top foreigners are like Thorzain, Naniwa, IdrA, Morrow, White-Ra, Dimaga, Huk, and couple other players. Select and Kiwikaki have had way more success than Morrow and Dimaga. Sjow has one of the largest earnings outside Korea, those three are clearly top foreigners as is Ret who won Assembly. MorroW won an IEM and took 2nd at Assembly What did KiWi and Select do that's "way more" than that?
I would never consider putting Morrow and Dimaga as a top player, but not Select and Kiwikaka, which is basically his point. They have been kinda unlucky in tournaments, without wins, but you almost always see them near the top.
You will never have all "top" players, from everyones list of top players, in a single event. It's pretty fair to say most plays seeded were top foreigners and that the results are meaningful.
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On June 05 2011 11:26 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:23 Vimsey wrote:On June 05 2011 11:21 Golgotha wrote:On June 05 2011 11:20 PieLieDie wrote:On June 05 2011 11:18 Vimsey wrote:On June 05 2011 11:15 Fionn wrote:On June 05 2011 11:13 Vimsey wrote:On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote:
So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2
MMA: 5 - 0
July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean)
MC: 4 - 1
Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^; ok annoying me now. I like how people are only counting the GSL invited koreans. Moonan went 0-5 and Select went 0-5. Neither of those play in the Korean scene. They're North American players. So by that logic TLO is now swedish, QXC is now spanish, Huk is now Korean and Demuslim is now German amoung others. Your stupidity is painful... lol don't talk to him. i tried to explain but he seems pretty fixed on what he believes. Yea thanks I understand GSL koreans are the best but thats like saying that David Beckham because he no longer plays in a top English football league is no longer English. lmao stop you are digging your own grave. beckham came from the strict English league system and THEN he left. Moonan and Select NEVER had the influence of a strict Korean Pro Gaming system. Think before you spew nonsense.
Actually, Moonan spent several months training with a BW proteam after getting his programing license, before returning to NA because he didn't want to do his military service.
Mind you, if we have to do "Korean" v "Foreigner", I'd do it as "Korean: Koreans in Korea" vs "Foreigner: Everyone else" so he'd be "Foreigner" even though MooNan is still a Korean citizen I believe (as is Select).
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United States97277 Posts
On June 05 2011 11:24 OldManZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:23 Falcor wrote:On June 05 2011 11:21 Quintum_ wrote:
For me i could see anyone of these players taking first
Losira, MMA, July, MC, Idra, Naniwa and Thorzain
I wonder if idra will take the code S invite if he can pull out a first place win. I know he said he will decline the code A invite for 2-4. i could see him doing it. Bunking with artosis for a month...as long as no big tournies are during the next gsl season. He's said that he would consider it.
There is no code S invite for MLG Columbus. Code S for GSL July is already set with 32 players
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On June 05 2011 11:27 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:25 oogieogie wrote:On June 05 2011 11:23 Fionn wrote:On June 05 2011 11:21 Crumpet wrote:
I personally don't think a legitimate argument can be made that Koreans are overall ahead in the starcraft 2 scene. However, it is a far cry from the dominance they held in Brood War. The matches between top tier foreigners and top tier Koreans are extremely competitive, and I believe the gap will only continue to narrow as esports grows in the west. Throwing up the series results of the koreans is a bit misleading, as many of them were extremly close series that, in my opinion, could have gone the other way a good 50% of the time. Koreans are still far above most of the world except for a few, but it isn't like BW. In BW, if any foreign player even took a game off someone like Bisu at an international event, it would create an uproar. Here, if someone like MC drops a series to Idra, it's not the same thing. SC2 isn't mechanical enough for there to be such a gap. jw but has there been a uproar caused by a foreigner taking a game off someone like Bisu/Flash/Jaedong or some BW pro? no foreigner has beaten a legit BW pro for a long time now.
Didn't Mondragon beat Jaedong in the last WCG? I can't remember if he just took 1 game or the series though.
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I don't get the "NICE RAX" sign, anyone would care to explain?
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On June 05 2011 11:28 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:25 PartyBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2011 11:24 Jyvblamo wrote:
Looks like a 3-way tie in group A?
Moon < Slush < Fenix < Moon
Am I mistaken? Slush takes 2nd place through W/L in those sets, Moon 3rd and Fenix 4th. It's actually is 1. Nani 2. Slush 3. Fenix 4. Moon A korean finishing in the lower end of the table 
Not surprising, Moon just isn't that good.
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On June 05 2011 11:26 Crisco wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:23 Vimsey wrote:On June 05 2011 11:21 Golgotha wrote:On June 05 2011 11:20 PieLieDie wrote:On June 05 2011 11:18 Vimsey wrote:On June 05 2011 11:15 Fionn wrote:On June 05 2011 11:13 Vimsey wrote:On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote:
So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2
MMA: 5 - 0
July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean)
MC: 4 - 1
Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^; ok annoying me now. I like how people are only counting the GSL invited koreans. Moonan went 0-5 and Select went 0-5. Neither of those play in the Korean scene. They're North American players. So by that logic TLO is now swedish, QXC is now spanish, Huk is now Korean and Demuslim is now German amoung others. Your stupidity is painful... lol don't talk to him. i tried to explain but he seems pretty fixed on what he believes. Yea thanks I understand GSL koreans are the best but thats like saying that David Beckham because he no longer plays in a top English football league is no longer English. what you're implying is pretty racist TBH. By your logic, if a black plays in MLG, he should be considered African and not american... also that means most of the NBA players are Africans. So Michael Jordan is the best African player of all times, not American. That pisses me off. I'm Korean, but from America. I wouldn't classify myself the same korean as the "GSL-invited korean category" ESPECIALLY since Korean implies "korean players playing in korea"
your actually agreeing with the guy you quoted. I think you misread what he said.
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Polt is actually very good and very very under rated
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On June 05 2011 11:28 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:25 PartyBiscuit wrote:On June 05 2011 11:24 Jyvblamo wrote:
Looks like a 3-way tie in group A?
Moon < Slush < Fenix < Moon
Am I mistaken? Slush takes 2nd place through W/L in those sets, Moon 3rd and Fenix 4th. It's actually is 1. Nani 2. Slush 3. Fenix 4. Moon A korean finishing in the lower end of the table
u sure? theres no thread or sth to see their winning percentages 
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Whenever MLG is happening I always find myself wondering about numbers... How many people are tunning into the streams for each game? How many pure spectators are showing up at the event itself for each game? What is the reaction of the other gamers to SC2?
Does anyone know the answers to these questions re: MLG Columbus 2011?
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On June 05 2011 11:21 Quintum_ wrote:
For me i could see anyone of these players taking first
Losira, MMA, July, MC, Idra, Naniwa and Thorzain
I wonder if idra will take the code S invite if he can pull out a first place win. I know he said he will decline the code A invite for 2-4.
The winner of this even DOES NOT get code S. Code S spot will be awarded to winners of MLG after Columbus.
EDIT: beaten to it.
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Does Ret finish 3rd in Group C over Thorzain? They both have 3-2 records.
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On June 05 2011 11:29 Cryhavoc wrote:
am i missed or they never streamed nani?
The only streamed 1 nani game, yesterday v Moon.
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On June 05 2011 11:29 SpiZe wrote:
I don't get the "NICE RAX" sign, anyone would care to explain?
Nice Rack (breasts)
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On June 05 2011 11:29 SpiZe wrote:
I don't get the "NICE RAX" sign, anyone would care to explain?
nice rack, as in nice tits
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On June 05 2011 11:23 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:20 wei2coolman wrote:On June 05 2011 11:18 travis wrote:On June 05 2011 11:16 koolaid1990 wrote:On June 05 2011 11:11 nam nam wrote:On June 05 2011 11:08 StyLeD wrote:On June 05 2011 11:06 redFF wrote:On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote:
So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2
MMA: 5 - 0
July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean)
MC: 4 - 1
Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^; Well Moon is an average korean and he lost a bit. And the other 4 are without a doubt 4 of the very best players in Korea. If these guys were only playing 4 of the top top top foreigners e.g. IdrA, Thorzain, Nani and Whitera, I'm sure the results would be fairly balanced. The koreans are playing people who are not on their level and not the best the foreign scene have to offer. Ofcourse all of these code s calibre players are pwning random foreigners, but the best of the best are still fairly equal in my opinion. Uh, no. The foreigners you mentioned are the best of the best foreigners. The Koreans sent to MLG are 2nd tier (-MC) compared to the likes of MVP and especially Nestea. Nice try though... You calling July and Losira second tier? Losira is pretty much 2nd tier to Nestea, everyone thinks of Losira as the protege of Nestea. I mean he did get 0-3ed by scFOU, Nestea beat scFou. oh, so 2nd tier means "2nd best" well geeze, we are ignoring that a lot of the players the koreans have been playing are 3rd, 4th, 5th, maybe even like 10th to 20th tier foreigners. Yeah. Lol, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Cause 2nd place isn't top tier anymore. Looks like the only way to be considered "top tier" is to win gsl twice. >.< Ya I was also thinking of this... people arbitrarily putting koreans in tiers while not doing so with foreigners in order to conveniently suit their view point is a joke. Everyone should just stop...
You misunderstand. Top tiers should be differentiated by skill level not number of people. Losira is leagues behind Nestea. It just happens that the Korean sc2 scene has many zergs at roughly the same level as Losira (July, DongRaeGu, Min). Second best doesn't count for as much, when there's multiple people at your level. In summary, just because Losira is the 2nd best, doesn't mean that there is not a tier leagues beyond him. When you compare this to someone like Idra, who along with Sen represent the pinnacle of Foreign Zerg play, then it becomes clear that Korea's top Zerg tier > Foreigner top Zerg tier.
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On June 05 2011 11:27 StyLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 11:25 doffe wrote:On June 05 2011 11:23 kheldorin wrote:On June 05 2011 11:18 Vimsey wrote:On June 05 2011 11:15 Fionn wrote:On June 05 2011 11:13 Vimsey wrote:On June 05 2011 11:02 ffadicted wrote:
So at the end of championship pool play, final tally on Korea vs. The World (I've been keeping track since the start)
Moon: 3 - 2
MMA: 5 - 0
July: 4 - 0 (his loss was to a korean)
MC: 4 - 1
Losira: 5 - 0
Koreans: 21 - 3
If you take into account that Moon isn't even good enough for Code A, and that MC said he was extremely jet lagged against grack, I think we can end the argument here. The gap IS huge.
Korea FIGHTIN!! ^^; ok annoying me now. I like how people are only counting the GSL invited koreans. Moonan went 0-5 and Select went 0-5. Neither of those play in the Korean scene. They're North American players. So by that logic TLO is now swedish, QXC is now spanish, Huk is now Korean and Demuslim is now German amoung others. US loose understanding of nationality is a bit strange. Not talking about nationalities. Talking about the scene. They don't play in the GSL and they don't play in the Korean server. They don't have the same practice culture, gaming house etc..etc.. So Idra/Haypro are half Koreans then? If HuK and Jinro comes to the next MLG are they Koreans? No, genius. They're foreigners playing in Korea. Just as how Select and Moonan are Koreans playing in the US. And the author of the first post, by saying "Korean", is counting only those Koreans who have lived in Korea and have gone through the labor and life of a SC2 progamer. It is unfair to include Select and Moonan, both of which play and live like foreigners. You don't even have a basis of argument and yet you're arguing. I don't see the sense in that.
Pretty much what this guy said.
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EPT
