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Further balance whining will result in severe bans. Time stamp 21:09 KST. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:15 Inflicted_ wrote: You can use it to stall and pump out more units. Yeah, and I can't really remember, but if I'm correct, while the DT did manage to get 8 kills in the first push on Game 2, he probably had enough stalkers to hold that even if the DT died early. The push on Game 2 didn't seem like it was designed to kill, just to put pressure for an expansion. | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4516 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:10 Inflicted_ wrote: Sentry, which warps in faster and can be used offensively. Sentry, which is negated by a single emp. | ||
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Olinim
4044 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:17 pdd wrote: Yeah, and I can't really remember, but if I'm correct, while the DT did manage to get 8 kills in the first push on Game 2, he probably had enough stalkers to hold that even if the DT died early. The push on Game 2 didn't seem like it was designed to kill, just to put pressure for an expansion. He barely held it with a dt running rampant and pulling all his probes, so no. | ||
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GoDLy MD
United Kingdom258 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:16 Medrea wrote: Great, guess the game is imbalanced and broken. See ya later then. I mean, Terran cant have map control verse 3 gate and be getting fast ghosts. Terran CAN do this if say.... you are squirtle....... doing an ultra fast expo...... and robo...... and dark templer. Hey we should check out what happens when you try to do all this tech and economy at once. Firstly, don't edit quotes to suit your purpose Secondly, nobody apart from the rager earlier said the game was imbalanced and broken. We're discussing how to scout and stop this fast ghost push. You're just flinging utter bullcrap without thinking about it hindering the discussion. imo you don't know what you're talking about. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:17 pdd wrote: Yeah, and I can't really remember, but if I'm correct, while the DT did manage to get 8 kills in the first push on Game 2, he probably had enough stalkers to hold that even if the DT died early. The push on Game 2 didn't seem like it was designed to kill, just to put pressure for an expansion. no he didn't. he had to use his probes which MKP targeted and he was left with only a few stalkers. | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
Leave the stalkers in front and the sentries right behind them to forcefield if marauders/marine charge up. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:19 GoDLy MD wrote: Firstly, don't edit quotes to suit your purpose Secondly, nobody apart from the rager earlier said the game was imbalanced and broken. We're discussing how to scout and stop this fast ghost push. You're just flinging utter bullcrap without thinking about it hindering the discussion. imo you don't know what you're talking about. ok well..... what was your idea then? I mean I do mine, and it seems to work, and I see pro's do it, and it also works, seeing as how thats where I copied it from in the first place. 3 Gate expansion is like, the safest thing out there. How do you get safer? | ||
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:19 GoDLy MD wrote: Firstly, don't edit quotes to suit your purpose Secondly, nobody apart from the rager earlier said the game was imbalanced and broken. We're discussing how to scout and stop this fast ghost push. You're just flinging utter bullcrap without thinking about it hindering the discussion. imo you don't know what you're talking about. dude dude its easy. I've read his posts thought about them cause they are a result of layers of layers of skill and deep concentration, thought and reflection. You want to scout ghosts, you check his ramp. easy. ♥ :D pz out, gl hf, grats to MKP | ||
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GoDLy MD
United Kingdom258 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:21 NExt wrote: dude dude its easy. I've read his posts thought about them cause they are a result of layers of layers of skill and deep concentration, thought and reflection. You want to scout ghosts, you check his ramp. easy. ♥ :D pz out, gl hf, grats to MKP aaah I seeee!! I probably couldn't see it earlier since it was so deeply ingrained in the complex high GM level analysis we were provided. makes sense now...check the ramp. Damn that's brilliant. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
I just dont get it, I mean scouting is so important in SC2. Zerg sacrifice overlords to get info, terran can scan which is resources....... I just dont understand I guess. Whats the problem? What do you want? A magic build order from a pro player? Before you build anything you have to know whats coming your way first. What are your options for spotting really early terran tech? Every single race has the option of pressuring the front for information. 3 Gate Robo is like, so close to a do all defense strat as it gets. | ||
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Taryssa
United States1628 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
But I don't see anyone beating MVP on his half of the bracket. ro8 is still ok money for MKP  | ||
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mage36
415 Posts
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Medrea
10003 Posts
Found it. If you are really in a hurry check minute 15 or so. Pretty much..... yeah check the ramp. Granted this is of a different patch but guess what, early aggression is still there, so are ramps, so are people checking them. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On May 26 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote: I think it's just very hard to scout, as the T has concussive when the ghosts are out so you can't poke that easily. Perhaps if you're very refined you can count the number of units and see something is wrong (2 ghosts are still 4 marauders or 8 marines, that's a big difference in army size), but you have to train a lot against that particular build, know exactly at what time to look and what should be the enemy composition, not easy. I think there was a similar push to this that carmac died to and rotterdam on ESL university monday cast explained in detail what he could do to scout even though its hard to poke and then how to deal with the units once they get to your base so may be worth watching for those learning. | ||
Poopi
France12905 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:35 MrCon wrote: If MKP wins against ACE he'll have a royal road until ro8, where he'll face....MVP or MMA. If both somehow lose before (MMA and MVP meet each other in ro16) MKP has a royal road to the semis, perhaps even the final. But I don't see anyone beating MVP on his half of the bracket. ro8 is still ok money for MKP He can only met Mvp in RO4. His most difficult opponents until then will be Ace and HongUn his teammate (if RevivaL wins against HongUn it should be easy for MKP), then Min or Genius could be difficult opponents but MKP is still favored. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:49 Vimsey wrote: I think there was a similar push to this that carmac died to and rotterdam on ESL university monday cast explained in detail what he could do to scout even though its hard to poke and then how to deal with the units once they get to your base so may be worth watching for those learning. Yeah the people saying sentries are useless against an early ghost play are also not entirely correct since generally bases have high ground so a sentry should get at least one force field which is sometimes all you need. Also someone said keep the sentry far back which is also somewhat helpful on maps like Taldarim. | ||
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kheldorin
Singapore539 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:55 Medrea wrote: Yeah the people saying sentries are useless against an early ghost play are also not entirely correct since generally bases have high ground so a sentry should get at least one force field which is sometimes all you need. Also someone said keep the sentry far back which is also somewhat helpful on maps like Taldarim. StaLife did this build against MC on Shattered Temple. MC did check the ramp. In fact he, FFed the ramp till roughly the time he thinks Stalife would get medivacs out. Stalife did a good job of hiding his army. MC then retreated to his expansion and got rolled completely afterwards. His response was a 4-gate in the 2nd game and then a void ray in the 3rd. But those responses are not based on scouting but on the previous matches. | ||
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:39 Medrea wrote: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-279-hasuobs-p-vs-tlo-t-4974051 Found it. If you are really in a hurry check minute 15 or so. Pretty much..... yeah check the ramp. Granted this is of a different patch but guess what, early aggression is still there, so are ramps, so are people checking them. ok you PM me? lol i'll bite. note: imo day9 speaks to platinum and lower note: starcraft 2 is not one dimensional. you talk like it is - it hurts the validity of ur posts. note: its not THAT easy to see what a terran is doing. They are highly versatile and simply checking the ramp is not enough. Now that video, yeah makes sense that poke the front it happens all the time. No argument there. But check this out: -LiquidTLO did a 1 rax CC. He did not have many units, he was greedy enough not to have a bunker. (that first push wouldve been shut down if he had furthermore [being so early in the game he wouldn't have seen enough]) . But above all, totally different scenario 1 rax CC doesn't compare to anything in terms of early game and early game pressure. So what we've been talking about is scouting to see Ghosts ( just in case you forgot ). When did he take his gas? When did he take his second gas? How many rax did he build? How many marauders / marines did he make? -Marine comes out around 3 game minutes or so.. give or take.. Your probe dies 1 game minute later. Scouting halted for now. You say early pressure. -What if, there are 2 marauders and a marine on the map or already at your front? [can't poke at this amazing 6 minute timing must play on] -Tell on what he's done? [not really, must play on] -You finish warp gates, you try this pressure. You move up the ramp.. Bunker.. can't bust, reasonable number of marauders and marines, not enough to tell mass marauder production but not small enough to say hey, he isn't spending gas on anything else. But.. regardless we must retreat losing a few units to concussive shell but not too game deciding. -You saw a respectable amount of units though, so make a few more gateway units and slow down the tech a little to make sure you don't just straight up die. But Ghosts are > gateway units, damn.. note: still have no idea whether is 3rax all in. 2 rax expand pressure. both of which can involve ghosts. or anything else. note: its been discussed that the best answer to Ghosts are Colossus, which are not a reaction move, as they take awhile to build. even if see Ghosts at his natural if u havent blindly gone Colossus. Observers?? might be already too late. note: notice how complicated it becomes necause the game is not one dimensional poking his ramp doesn't solve the problem you're basing ALOT of your argument over a day9 daily where the Terran went for an intense macro build, what if he didnt go 1rax CC do you know timings then? MKP when for a macro build but made ghosts before he made medivacs. Would you have you known he was going for quick ghosts? Lets cover all bases. You logically get observer 7minute mark+ (depending of what u've done) a strong standard push comes around 10 minutes. Observer gets to opponents base at 8 minutes, you see ghosts. You have 2minutes to react. ok. tl:dr - this game is not one dimensional, you're basing ALOT of your argument over a day9 daily where the Terran went for a macro build, totally changes the dynamic of early pressure from Protoss 1.3k masters protoss. gl hf. RUN AT ME BRUH | ||
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
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