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Further balance whining will result in severe bans. Time stamp 21:09 KST. |
On May 26 2011 21:57 GoDLy MD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 21:54 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On May 26 2011 21:46 NExt wrote:On May 26 2011 21:44 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:42 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On May 26 2011 21:38 Onieh wrote:On May 26 2011 21:36 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On May 26 2011 21:35 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:34 bbQ4Aiur wrote:
its that ghost strategy wins mkp the game, anyone think of anyway to counter it? Nonstop colo production usually stops it no im serious, u cant get colo out in time for the 1st attack First attack was at like 10min or so? Not entirely sure about the time. You can have a few colossi by then for sure + enough gateway to hold off that attack. assuming i see it coming, i feel like i should try to snipe the ghosts with stalkers, even if i have to sac them, cause terran has less rines/rauders because of the ghosts, thats all i can think of You can see it coming a mile away if you scout the front. a mile away if u scout the front?? scout that their out and just need to walk across the map or see the general mmm? im not trolling i'd love to know more mid game tells for T. their so versatile I think it's just very hard to scout, as the T has concussive when the ghosts are out so you can't poke that easily. Perhaps if you're very refined you can count the number of units and see something is wrong (2 ghosts are still 4 marauders or 8 marines, that's a big difference in army size), but you have to train a lot against that particular build, know exactly at what time to look and what should be the enemy composition, not easy. Precisely, poke with one zealot. Then more if not enough shoots at you. Then check unit comps. There is a day9 daily that explains basic front scouting and unit counting. how many units does protoss have before warp gate under normal circumstances? not many of those, which are the most important in staying alive vs mm? zealots what is the worst idea possible? losing the zealots what are you suggesting? losing the zealots.
You should have 6 when the first set of warp ins arrive, 1 zealot, 1 sentry, 4 stalkers, walk zealot or probe up one hex above high ground vision, save zealot or toss probe. This build kills ultra greedy tech almost outright, Ghosts is barely below ultra greedy. If you see like a bunker filled with units with like tanks or marauders and shit right next to it, go home.
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On May 26 2011 21:59 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 21:57 GoDLy MD wrote:On May 26 2011 21:54 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On May 26 2011 21:46 NExt wrote:On May 26 2011 21:44 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:42 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On May 26 2011 21:38 Onieh wrote:On May 26 2011 21:36 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On May 26 2011 21:35 Medrea wrote:
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Nonstop colo production usually stops it no im serious, u cant get colo out in time for the 1st attack First attack was at like 10min or so? Not entirely sure about the time. You can have a few colossi by then for sure + enough gateway to hold off that attack. assuming i see it coming, i feel like i should try to snipe the ghosts with stalkers, even if i have to sac them, cause terran has less rines/rauders because of the ghosts, thats all i can think of You can see it coming a mile away if you scout the front. a mile away if u scout the front?? scout that their out and just need to walk across the map or see the general mmm? im not trolling i'd love to know more mid game tells for T. their so versatile I think it's just very hard to scout, as the T has concussive when the ghosts are out so you can't poke that easily. Perhaps if you're very refined you can count the number of units and see something is wrong (2 ghosts are still 4 marauders or 8 marines, that's a big difference in army size), but you have to train a lot against that particular build, know exactly at what time to look and what should be the enemy composition, not easy. Precisely, poke with one zealot. Then more if not enough shoots at you. Then check unit comps. There is a day9 daily that explains basic front scouting and unit counting. how many units does protoss have before warp gate under normal circumstances? not many of those, which are the most important in staying alive vs mm? zealots what is the worst idea possible? losing the zealots what are you suggesting? losing the zealots. You should have 6 when the first set of warp ins arrive, 1 zealot, 1 sentry, 4 stalkers, walk zealot or probe up one hex above high ground vision, save zealot or toss probe. This build kills ultra greedy tech almost outright, Ghosts is barely below ultra greedy. If you see like a bunker filled with units with like tanks or marauders and shit right next to it, go home.
how do you save the zealot vs concussive shells?
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On May 26 2011 21:53 shaman6ix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 21:42 Samhax wrote:On May 26 2011 21:41 Blessed wrote:
are you people all retarded? How can you say that Squirtle got outclassed. Terran is so bullshit. I think we must be watching different games. MKP DID NOTHING. NOTHING NO SKILL.
He walks up to the army with ghosts, and clicks 2 e click click click
bam, all of the protoss army is basically useless with 0 energy and all have 50% hp.
then he just stims in his fucking marine marauder and wins.
and on top of that being a fucking dick with the /dance and mules.
He outclassed squirtle in absolutely 0 way, there was no sick micro, nothing. just fucking emp and 1a stim. Man why you just don't go to Korea, and show us how it's done? worst argument ever but keeps coming back.. he didnt say he would do it better than MKP of Squirtle, he just said its a very powerfull strategy that requires no extreme skills to be executed. Having said that, i dont think the angry protoss is right either for the sole reason that squirtle and mkp are on a different level skillwise. Oh man, im just trying to imagine how awesome of a place this site would be if everyone just thought for a while before posting.. NOT MUCH, just.. a little.
yeah if it was that easy, why he doesn't go to Korea and smash all the protosses right there. I'm sure that MKP works his ass off to refine this build and hit a clutch timing. But he can't see that because he is to angry cause his brotoss was crushed.
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On May 26 2011 21:56 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 21:55 NExt wrote:On May 26 2011 21:52 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:51 GoDLy MD wrote:On May 26 2011 21:49 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:48 NExt wrote:On May 26 2011 21:46 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:44 NExt wrote:On May 26 2011 21:43 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:41 realstarcrafter wrote:
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oh you can argue is a build order win Yah umm, just go kill him ghost take forever to get out. buunkers are pretty good lol Terran can't have 2 bunkers filled with marines or marauders AND ghosts AND ghost tec shortly after 6 minutes. If he does go report him for hacking. so u know what Terran don't have. do you also know what Protoss don't have shortly after 6 minutes? 6 minutes your WG should be wrapping up. If he has ghosts he isnt roaming around the map which should allow a proxy, keyword should. you're suggesting attacking as soon as warp gate finishes, ie like a 4gate...but bunkers straight up own 4 gate and if the terran is teching, which he is, then it's slightly silly for him to NOT have a bunker. And even then, you're saying protoss has to make a decision to 4 gate in order to blind counter fast ghosts? no. 3 gates? Is this REALLY underground now? Huk stops this shit on his stream all the damn time. umm. concusive shells destroys gateway units. if anyone is roaming around its the Terran.. If he is roaming around with a scary force of marauders guess what. He ain't making ghosts, scouting complete.
what..... this is weird... can i ask ur league? and race?
a scary force of marauders in your time frame of 6 minutes is... 2 marauders.
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I'm a massive MKP fan, but I don't think it's fair to say that Squirtle got completely outplayed. I mean, first game he went very early nexus and held it during the most dangerous period of the game by applying some nice pressure. He also had really exellent sentry spread (couldn't have been much better tbh), it's just that he didn't have enough units, and the lack of an immortal in particular really hurt him. MKP hit a nice timing and won, his micro was exceptional as ever (targeting down sentries with guardian shield on them first with a small portion of his army) but it was just timing that he won through (not to say that there's no skill in timing).
In game 2 Squirtle actually held the same timing attack with some great forcefields and a clutch DT which MKP didn't spot in the army. Squirtle played great, but then wasn't able to overcome the macro advantage (and to some extent tech advantage, since Squirtle spread his gas out on lots of tech) that MKP gained by applying pressure, then lost in the next big engagement. It wasn't a serious case of outplayed imo.
SO glad MKP is through though.
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On May 26 2011 22:02 wristuzi wrote:
I'm a massive MKP fan, but I don't think it's fair to say that Squirtle got completely outplayed. I mean, first game he went very early nexus and held it during the most dangerous period of the game by applying some nice pressure. He also had really exellent sentry spread (couldn't have been much better tbh), it's just that he didn't have enough units, and the lack of an immortal in particular really hurt him. MKP hit a nice timing and won, his micro was exceptional as ever (targeting down sentries with guardian shield on them first with a small portion of his army) but it was just timing that he won through (not to say that there's no skill in timing).
In game 2 Squirtle actually held the same timing attack with some great forcefields and a clutch DT which MKP didn't spot in the army. Squirtle played great, but then wasn't able to overcome the macro advantage (and to some extent tech advantage, since Squirtle spread his gas out on lots of tech) that MKP gained by applying pressure, then lost in the next big engagement. It wasn't a serious case of outplayed imo.
SO glad MKP is through though.
You want him to make an immortal vs ghost/marine?...
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On May 26 2011 21:57 Yaotzin wrote:
if terran is able to gain map control against 3 gate then he isnt going fast ghost.
Throw the probe away then if you really REALLY cant walk up one hex of a ramp and think he is making heavy marauder, if you want do this early so if you see a lot of marauders you know what your next warpins are going to be.
I never give race/league awau since, lets face it, even if Im top 20 GM randoms on the internet arent going to listen and are going to keep insisting the game is broken and there is no way to tell whats going on behind that scary wall in.
With the economy of the ghosts, they are just part of the early to mid transition now so get used to seeing it. Don't balance whine.
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The problem is that toss can't make static defense without throwing up a forge, and it isn't part of your normal build order. See a push coming? Throw up some bunkers or some crawlers, as toss? Just gotta hope.
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On May 26 2011 22:03 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 21:57 Yaotzin wrote:
if terran is able to gain map control against 3 gate then he isnt going fast ghost. Throw the probe away then if you really REALLY cant walk up one hex of a ramp and think he is making heavy marauder, if you want do this early so if you see a lot of marauders you know what your next warpins are going to be. I never give race/league awau since, lets face it, even if Im top 20 GM randoms on the internet arent going to listen and are going to keep insisting the game is broken and there is no way to tell whats going on behind that scary wall in.
well lets face it. if your top 20 GM, you're answers would make sense, have some kind of reality to it, and wouldn't be so simple.
"you want to scout ghosts, check his ramp.." is all ur saying.
btw I wasn't balance whining I just find it funny that the game is so easy and was interested in ur insight
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On May 26 2011 22:03 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 21:57 Yaotzin wrote:
if terran is able to gain map control against 3 gate then he isnt going fast ghost. Throw the probe away then if you really REALLY cant walk up one hex of a ramp and think he is making heavy marauder, if you want do this early so if you see a lot of marauders you know what your next warpins are going to be. I never give race/league awau since, lets face it, even if Im top 20 GM randoms on the internet arent going to listen and are going to keep insisting the game is broken and there is no way to tell whats going on behind that scary wall in. With the economy of the ghosts, they are just part of the early to mid transition now so get used to seeing it. Don't balance whine.
you're saying that if terran is going fast ghosts he can't have many marauders?
well seeing as how marauders are only 25 gas...I don't quite follow.
and if you could prove you were GM people would listen. If a terran is smart he'd keep his ghosts away from his ramp until push time. Scouting up the ramp is just losing something.
EDIT: On May 04 2011 18:24 Medrea wrote:
They should make rocks in front of every natural to force mid game.
Air rocks too around the bases.
Forgive me if i'm wrong but this and some of your other posts don't really indicate you to be a very high skilled player.
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Australia18228 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:07 Olinim wrote:
The problem is that toss can't make static defense without throwing up a forge, and it isn't part of your normal build order. See a push coming? Throw up some bunkers or some crawlers, as toss? Just gotta hope.
Sentry, which warps in faster and can be used offensively.
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On May 26 2011 22:08 GoDLy MD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 22:03 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:57 Yaotzin wrote:
if terran is able to gain map control against 3 gate then he isnt going fast ghost. Throw the probe away then if you really REALLY cant walk up one hex of a ramp and think he is making heavy marauder, if you want do this early so if you see a lot of marauders you know what your next warpins are going to be. I never give race/league awau since, lets face it, even if Im top 20 GM randoms on the internet arent going to listen and are going to keep insisting the game is broken and there is no way to tell whats going on behind that scary wall in. With the economy of the ghosts, they are just part of the early to mid transition now so get used to seeing it. Don't balance whine. well seeing as how marauders are only 25 gas...I don't quite follow.
And 100 minerals, AND a barracks with a tech lab.
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On May 26 2011 22:10 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 22:07 Olinim wrote:
The problem is that toss can't make static defense without throwing up a forge, and it isn't part of your normal build order. See a push coming? Throw up some bunkers or some crawlers, as toss? Just gotta hope. Sentry.
You realize we're talking about a ghost push right? The push that completely negates sentries?
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On May 26 2011 22:11 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 22:08 GoDLy MD wrote:On May 26 2011 22:03 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:57 Yaotzin wrote:
if terran is able to gain map control against 3 gate then he isnt going fast ghost. Throw the probe away then if you really REALLY cant walk up one hex of a ramp and think he is making heavy marauder, if you want do this early so if you see a lot of marauders you know what your next warpins are going to be. I never give race/league awau since, lets face it, even if Im top 20 GM randoms on the internet arent going to listen and are going to keep insisting the game is broken and there is no way to tell whats going on behind that scary wall in. With the economy of the ghosts, they are just part of the early to mid transition now so get used to seeing it. Don't balance whine. well seeing as how marauders are only 25 gas...I don't quite follow. And 100 minerals, AND a barracks with a tech lab.
you have mules, you're spending minerals on what exactly? SCV's (50M) Marines (50M)...AND you need the barracks with the tech lab anyway to get ghosts?
Think before you post please. If protoss can support 4 gates of constant zealot production that you can support 2 barracks of constant marauder production easily, with plenty left to spare.
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On May 26 2011 22:10 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 22:07 Olinim wrote:
The problem is that toss can't make static defense without throwing up a forge, and it isn't part of your normal build order. See a push coming? Throw up some bunkers or some crawlers, as toss? Just gotta hope. Sentry, which warps in faster and can be used offensively.
we're talking about a ghost push??
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Squirtle just had terrible decision making in the 2nd set. He held off the initial push and as Wolf said should have taken a third as he kept map control with DTs... (no need to harass the mineral lines just hit the army as he's pushing out to delay him/force scans).
Instead he pushed MKP's third and lost a big chunk of his army allowing MKP to do the drop which killed so many probes (and he should have evacuated his probes, but instead he just let them get slaughtered there).
The economic disadvantage then led to his downfall when it came down to the final push.
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Australia18228 Posts
On May 26 2011 22:11 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 22:10 Inflicted_ wrote:On May 26 2011 22:07 Olinim wrote:
The problem is that toss can't make static defense without throwing up a forge, and it isn't part of your normal build order. See a push coming? Throw up some bunkers or some crawlers, as toss? Just gotta hope. Sentry. You realize we're talking about a ghost push right? The push that completely negates sentries?
You can use it to stall and pump out more units or get your forge/cannons out.
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On May 26 2011 22:12 GoDLy MD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 22:11 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 22:08 GoDLy MD wrote:On May 26 2011 22:03 Medrea wrote:On May 26 2011 21:57 Yaotzin wrote:
if terran is able to gain map control against 3 gate then he isnt going fast ghost. Throw the probe away then if you really REALLY cant walk up one hex of a ramp and think he is making heavy marauder, if you want do this early so if you see a lot of marauders you know what your next warpins are going to be. I never give race/league awau since, lets face it, even if Im top 20 GM randoms on the internet arent going to listen and are going to keep insisting the game is broken and there is no way to tell whats going on behind that scary wall in. With the economy of the ghosts, they are just part of the early to mid transition now so get used to seeing it. Don't balance whine. well seeing as how marauders are only 25 gas...I don't quite follow. And 100 minerals, AND a barracks with a tech lab. Think before you post please.
Great, guess the game is imbalanced and broken. See ya later then.
I mean, Terran cant have map control verse 3 gate and be getting fast ghosts.
Terran CAN do this if say.... you are squirtle....... doing an ultra fast expo...... and robo...... and dark templer. Hey we should check out what happens when you try to do all this tech and economy at once.
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On May 26 2011 22:15 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 22:11 Olinim wrote:On May 26 2011 22:10 Inflicted_ wrote:On May 26 2011 22:07 Olinim wrote:
The problem is that toss can't make static defense without throwing up a forge, and it isn't part of your normal build order. See a push coming? Throw up some bunkers or some crawlers, as toss? Just gotta hope. Sentry. You realize we're talking about a ghost push right? The push that completely negates sentries? You can use it to stall and pump out more units.
Maybe if you're on one base... how can you stall a terran push on metalopolis?
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On May 26 2011 22:15 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 22:11 Olinim wrote:On May 26 2011 22:10 Inflicted_ wrote:On May 26 2011 22:07 Olinim wrote:
The problem is that toss can't make static defense without throwing up a forge, and it isn't part of your normal build order. See a push coming? Throw up some bunkers or some crawlers, as toss? Just gotta hope. Sentry. You realize we're talking about a ghost push right? The push that completely negates sentries? You can use it to stall and pump out more units.
what by throwing the sentry at them? It's pretty much impossible to stop the EMP without feedback...and once your sentry has 0 energy there's not much stalling you can do.
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EPT
