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Chainfire99
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada474 Posts
May 05 2011 03:08 GMT
#661
Harvesters fighting....it makes me think....the meek shall inherit the earth!
Vincere Vel Mori
GiggleFairy
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia331 Posts
May 05 2011 03:08 GMT
#662
On May 05 2011 12:03 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 12:00 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:54 bkrow wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:44 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:42 MYM.ClouD wrote:
teamliquid is becoming a pile of trash. nobody would have insulted such a great player as grubby before sc2 came out and these arrogant nobodies took over the best starcraft community. reading all this bullshit makes me very sad.


"great player" is of course a relative thing... and it doesn't take a pro to recognize that fact. His decision to warp in 4 zealots after his whole army was surrounded was very questionable, as was his decision to 4gate in the first place...

It's about respect; everyone knows Boxer is not amazing at SC2, but out of respect for what he has accomplished we don't walk around saying he is "trash"


What exactly has grubby accomplished? Specifically with SC2, not WC3? In liquipedia all it shows is a bronze place in a Copenhagen cup.

I browse TL daily and watch countless tournaments and I haven't yet seen the amazing play yet. Even now we just saw him lose 0-2 to vibe, who isn't exactly a top player. If you have some vods I should watch where he outperforms top players I would love to see them.

a bronze place in copenhagen games with all the best players in europe beating morrow for 3rd 4th place 3-0. yeah grubby has accomplished absolutely nothing in the very little amount of time he's been practicing sc2 seriously.


I want it to be known that Grubby has his own Wikipedia page. When you have your own Wikipedia page, you know you are a big deal He is one of the most successful Pro-Gamers of all time with his net winnings being estimated over $2,000,000 USD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Schenkhuizen
look at his achievments there if you need to see his success.
Xxavi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1248 Posts
May 05 2011 03:08 GMT
#663
On May 05 2011 12:03 Kisra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 11:57 Xxavi wrote:
MYM.ClouD

Wash your make-up and man up, ASAP. If you want this sport go mainstream, hate, passion, trash-talking (by fans) is going to be a big part of it. Or stay in your village and play with your neighbor, and nobody will bother talking about how trash you might be.

In case you didn't notice, even players like C. Ronaldo have a lot of haters. Does any of them have a fraction of his ability? No, but he cannot complain, can he? He is earning his money, and could care less what random fans think about him.

Grubby is playing some laughable games. He is going to receive criticism for that. It's only natural. Teamliquid's own Tyler and Haypro get a lot of stick, and Grubby is pretty much a nobody compared to them in this forum (considering it belongs to TL).


The key term here is:

Respect

You can say "This guy isn't playing so good" - but there's a world of difference between that and "Man this guy sucks". It's almost one of the TL Ten Commandments - respecting the vets, which easily extended to respecting the pros. You can criticise but not mud-fling.

Also, because other sports/games give top people flak or disrespect doesn't mean that we should adhere to that here. Addressing to everyone: Before you hit 'post', pause a moment and think "What do people benefit from reading what I'm saying". If the answer is "That I'm saying something offensive about this guy" then is it worth posting?

OK, I thought one of the reasons why Korean leagues couldn't attract attention of foreign mainstream fan-base was because of them being too respectful and with almost zero passion being involved in it?

I have been enjoying watching Bisu games for years, but beside that, I cannot relate to them and their style. Sports for me is supporting certain teams/players and being neutral to some, and hating some. Whether that is the best in terms of moral principles I wouldn't know.
Uhh Negative
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1090 Posts
May 05 2011 03:08 GMT
#664
On May 05 2011 12:07 mango_destroyer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
Breaking News: People trash talk other people!

Seriously, I don't know how you can say that all of sudden TL is becoming trashy and trash talking everyone. This world has been like this ever since humans competed. People will always trash talk other people and there's two types of responses. You can get all butt-hurt and defensive about it, or you can shrug it off. Why even respond to someone who is being disrespectful? Those who get caught up in it are those who are left behind.


Lol people act like these players are as incredibly sensitive as they are. I doubt a player as famous as Grubby gives a shit if people say he plays like a jobber. I agree trash talking is nothing new.

Agreed.
Jacuzzi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States528 Posts
May 05 2011 03:08 GMT
#665
For you kids watching at home: get a stalker after that first zealot instead of a sentry. You can scout with it, kill any reapers that pop in to your base, and micro against any BitByBit all ins.
dtz
Profile Joined September 2010
5834 Posts
May 05 2011 03:09 GMT
#666
On May 05 2011 12:06 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 12:03 dtz wrote:
On May 05 2011 12:00 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:54 bkrow wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:44 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:42 MYM.ClouD wrote:
teamliquid is becoming a pile of trash. nobody would have insulted such a great player as grubby before sc2 came out and these arrogant nobodies took over the best starcraft community. reading all this bullshit makes me very sad.


"great player" is of course a relative thing... and it doesn't take a pro to recognize that fact. His decision to warp in 4 zealots after his whole army was surrounded was very questionable, as was his decision to 4gate in the first place...

It's about respect; everyone knows Boxer is not amazing at SC2, but out of respect for what he has accomplished we don't walk around saying he is "trash"


What exactly has grubby accomplished? Specifically with SC2, not WC3? In liquipedia all it shows is a bronze place in a Copenhagen cup.

I browse TL daily and watch countless tournaments and I haven't yet seen the amazing play yet. Even now we just saw him lose 0-2 to vibe, who isn't exactly a top player. If you have some vods I should watch where he outperforms top players I would love to see them.


Eh that's exactly his point right. We respect the players even though they have not accomplished a lot just like we respect boxer not so much because his sc2 results. Why are you asking for proof of his results.


Read his post again. He says "out of respect for what he has accomplished" we do not say boxer is trash.



obviously out of respect for what he has accomplished in broodwar because he brought up " not so much because his sc2 results"

then you went asking for specifically sc2 results for grubby.
hiyo_bye
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States737 Posts
May 05 2011 03:09 GMT
#667
That was some sweet immortal micro, at least. GO KIWI
Random
TheHova
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United Kingdom2612 Posts
May 05 2011 03:09 GMT
#668
On May 05 2011 12:08 Aealo2012 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 12:03 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On May 05 2011 12:00 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:54 bkrow wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:44 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:42 MYM.ClouD wrote:
teamliquid is becoming a pile of trash. nobody would have insulted such a great player as grubby before sc2 came out and these arrogant nobodies took over the best starcraft community. reading all this bullshit makes me very sad.


"great player" is of course a relative thing... and it doesn't take a pro to recognize that fact. His decision to warp in 4 zealots after his whole army was surrounded was very questionable, as was his decision to 4gate in the first place...

It's about respect; everyone knows Boxer is not amazing at SC2, but out of respect for what he has accomplished we don't walk around saying he is "trash"


What exactly has grubby accomplished? Specifically with SC2, not WC3? In liquipedia all it shows is a bronze place in a Copenhagen cup.

I browse TL daily and watch countless tournaments and I haven't yet seen the amazing play yet. Even now we just saw him lose 0-2 to vibe, who isn't exactly a top player. If you have some vods I should watch where he outperforms top players I would love to see them.

a bronze place in copenhagen games with all the best players in europe beating morrow for 3rd 4th place 3-0. yeah grubby has accomplished absolutely nothing in the very little amount of time he's been practicing sc2 seriously.


I want it to be known that Grubby has his own Wikipedia page. When you have your own Wikipedia page, you know you are a big deal He is one of the most successful Pro-Gamers of all time with his net winnings being estimated over $2,000,000 USD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Schenkhuizen
look at his achievments there if you need to see his success.


That list of tournament wins.... O_O Jesus take the wheel.
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
May 05 2011 03:09 GMT
#669
On May 05 2011 12:00 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 11:54 bkrow wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:44 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:42 MYM.ClouD wrote:
teamliquid is becoming a pile of trash. nobody would have insulted such a great player as grubby before sc2 came out and these arrogant nobodies took over the best starcraft community. reading all this bullshit makes me very sad.


"great player" is of course a relative thing... and it doesn't take a pro to recognize that fact. His decision to warp in 4 zealots after his whole army was surrounded was very questionable, as was his decision to 4gate in the first place...

It's about respect; everyone knows Boxer is not amazing at SC2, but out of respect for what he has accomplished we don't walk around saying he is "trash"


What exactly has grubby accomplished? Specifically with SC2, not WC3? In liquipedia all it shows is a bronze place in a Copenhagen cup.

I browse TL daily and watch countless tournaments and I haven't yet seen the amazing play yet. Even now we just saw him lose 0-2 to vibe, who isn't exactly a top player. If you have some vods I should watch where he outperforms top players I would love to see them.

If you want to be an SC2 elitist and ignore all other games you may as well ignore BW achievements for people like Boxer, NaDa and July - oh wait, nobody does..

But hey - SC2 is the only game that matters right?
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
TofuFox
Profile Joined November 2010
374 Posts
May 05 2011 03:09 GMT
#670
On May 05 2011 12:05 Uhh Negative wrote:
Breaking News: People trash talk other people!

Seriously, I don't know how you can say that all of sudden TL is becoming trashy and trash talking everyone. This world has been like this ever since humans competed. People will always trash talk other people and there's two types of responses. You can get all butt-hurt and defensive about it, or you can shrug it off. Why even respond to someone who is being disrespectful? Those who get caught up in it are those who are left behind.


That the best way to deal with asshole behavior is often to ignore the assholes does not make them anything other than assholes.

It's also a pretty good argument that they don't contribute anything to the site and that a moderation system and culture that doesn't tolerate assholes doesn't actually lose anything.
AimForTheBushes
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1760 Posts
May 05 2011 03:11 GMT
#671
On May 05 2011 12:07 Nerdslayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 11:57 Xxavi wrote:
MYM.ClouD

Wash your make-up and man up, ASAP. If you want this sport go mainstream, hate, passion, trash-talking (by fans) is going to be a big part of it. Or stay in your village and play with your neighbor, and nobody will bother talking about how trash you might be.

In case you didn't notice, even players like C. Ronaldo have a lot of haters. Does any of them have a fraction of his ability? No, but he cannot complain, can he? He is earning his money, and could care less what random fans think about him.

Grubby is playing some laughable games. He is going to receive criticism for that. It's only natural. Teamliquid's own Tyler and Haypro get a lot of stick, and Grubby is pretty much a nobody compared to them in this forum (considering it belongs to TL).



Great post coulnt agree more. This is not Kitty Cat online, this is Esport. There will be fans loving and hate you, if you cant take the heat then I suggest you get out of the bakery.


I'm really interested in this Kitty Cat online you mentioned. Can I get this off of Steam or Xbox Live? Also, is it balanced? I'd hate to get a game where the tabbies are OP, and it's impossible for the Scottish Folds to get a good scout without falling behind or having to rely on a coin-flip.
Sm3agol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2055 Posts
May 05 2011 03:12 GMT
#672
On May 05 2011 12:05 On_Slaught wrote:
We'll know the game has evolved the day that type of play is no longer viable. Ugh.

What??????? Simply scouting on time beats that build 100% of the time. Canceling that immortal and warping in a stalker and zealot instead wins that. Actually watching your ramp, and FF all those scvs/marines out and you win. Micro your probes at all and you win that. Not having your last 4 probes on gas instead of minerals with 200 gas wins that. That was just terrible play, not an unstoppable cheese. The day no cheese is effective at all is the day i quit watching SC2. 15 minute no army touching rules do not make for compelling SC2. You might as well spawn with 2 bases, 4 gates, a robo, stargate, and 40 probes(or other races equivalent) so you don't have to spend 15 minutes macroing up.
Mellon
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden917 Posts
May 05 2011 03:12 GMT
#673
Don't get why people hate players doing mistakes or playing bad? He's lost 4 bo3, but really why are you upset about it? It either means you really hate seeing him lose but then it doesn't make sense that you crap on him?

More than 99% of the players are worse than him, and almost 100% of the players taking a dump on him are way worse aswell. He's a legend in wc3, he ain't quite there yet in sc2 but why get upset about it? If it's about y'all not getting enjoyable games then do something else when you don't want to watch them. Stop hating it's just pathetic and pointless.
AndAgain
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2621 Posts
May 05 2011 03:13 GMT
#674
On May 05 2011 12:09 bkrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 12:00 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:54 bkrow wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:44 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:42 MYM.ClouD wrote:
teamliquid is becoming a pile of trash. nobody would have insulted such a great player as grubby before sc2 came out and these arrogant nobodies took over the best starcraft community. reading all this bullshit makes me very sad.


"great player" is of course a relative thing... and it doesn't take a pro to recognize that fact. His decision to warp in 4 zealots after his whole army was surrounded was very questionable, as was his decision to 4gate in the first place...

It's about respect; everyone knows Boxer is not amazing at SC2, but out of respect for what he has accomplished we don't walk around saying he is "trash"


What exactly has grubby accomplished? Specifically with SC2, not WC3? In liquipedia all it shows is a bronze place in a Copenhagen cup.

I browse TL daily and watch countless tournaments and I haven't yet seen the amazing play yet. Even now we just saw him lose 0-2 to vibe, who isn't exactly a top player. If you have some vods I should watch where he outperforms top players I would love to see them.

If you want to be an SC2 elitist and ignore all other games you may as well ignore BW achievements for people like Boxer, NaDa and July - oh wait, nobody does..

But hey - SC2 is the only game that matters right?


So it's impossible to discuss Michael Jordan's baseball accomplishments without bringing up his NBA career? BW and WC3 is irrelevant in the context of this SC2 thread.
All your teeth should fall out and hair should grow in their place!
Samhax
Profile Joined August 2010
1054 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-05 03:14:30
May 05 2011 03:13 GMT
#675
Behavior has always been a part of succesfull scenes in any game or sport. This discussion is pointless, back to the game!
AimForTheBushes
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1760 Posts
May 05 2011 03:14 GMT
#676
Since when does Xel'Naga have supply depots at the bottom of the ramp??! Have they modified any other maps like this? (Other than the original Terminus or whatever where they first did that)
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
May 05 2011 03:14 GMT
#677
On May 05 2011 11:54 mordk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 11:51 1Eris1 wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:42 MYM.ClouD wrote:
teamliquid is becoming a pile of trash. nobody would have insulted such a great player as grubby before sc2 came out and these arrogant nobodies took over the best starcraft community. reading all this bullshit makes me very sad.



Obviously he is a great WC3 player, but his results in SC2 have been extremely lackluster, especially for all of his hype


Irrelevant. Obviously his play is not too good, and that's certainly something people can critique. Trash talking a player as relevant to e-sports in the west as grubby should be unacceptable. Grubby is like the Boxer of europe.

And for any player actually, criticizing play =/= blatantly trash talking.



Well I agree. I wasn't trash talking him, I was just saying I wasn't impressed with his play. I'm entitled to my opinion after all, within reason
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
Kisra
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom466 Posts
May 05 2011 03:15 GMT
#678
On May 05 2011 12:08 Xxavi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 12:03 Kisra wrote:
On May 05 2011 11:57 Xxavi wrote:
MYM.ClouD

Wash your make-up and man up, ASAP. If you want this sport go mainstream, hate, passion, trash-talking (by fans) is going to be a big part of it. Or stay in your village and play with your neighbor, and nobody will bother talking about how trash you might be.

In case you didn't notice, even players like C. Ronaldo have a lot of haters. Does any of them have a fraction of his ability? No, but he cannot complain, can he? He is earning his money, and could care less what random fans think about him.

Grubby is playing some laughable games. He is going to receive criticism for that. It's only natural. Teamliquid's own Tyler and Haypro get a lot of stick, and Grubby is pretty much a nobody compared to them in this forum (considering it belongs to TL).


The key term here is:

Respect

You can say "This guy isn't playing so good" - but there's a world of difference between that and "Man this guy sucks". It's almost one of the TL Ten Commandments - respecting the vets, which easily extended to respecting the pros. You can criticise but not mud-fling.

Also, because other sports/games give top people flak or disrespect doesn't mean that we should adhere to that here. Addressing to everyone: Before you hit 'post', pause a moment and think "What do people benefit from reading what I'm saying". If the answer is "That I'm saying something offensive about this guy" then is it worth posting?

OK, I thought one of the reasons why Korean leagues couldn't attract attention of foreign mainstream fan-base was because of them being too respectful and with almost zero passion being involved in it?

I have been enjoying watching Bisu games for years, but beside that, I cannot relate to them and their style. Sports for me is supporting certain teams/players and being neutral to some, and hating some. Whether that is the best in terms of moral principles I wouldn't know.


The Korean leagues couldn't attract foreign attention because the players had too much 'respect' (or rather, didn't speak their mind enough). It lead to a lot of personalities bleeding into each other and it makes it hard to feel like you 'know' a player. Western eSports as it is doesn't have this weakness, we have tons of platforms around the game for players to make themselves known.

It doesn't however excuse Johnny Average to go and say "Yeah this guy is shit". You can not like a player (I have a few friends who really dislike IdrA, for example), but they respect his ability to play. Sure, Grubby's play in his series felt lackluster, but you can't disregard the work he puts in, or the potential, and you can't slam him for being a bad player after his run in Copenhagen.

I also feel there's a huge difference between passion and, say, the "Grubby is trash" post I saw earlier in the LR. That might just be one bad apple, but it wasn't, and it makes reading the thread unpleasant. I can totally understand ClouD's viewpoint - watching people who are pretty much gaurenteed to know a lot less about the game than Grubby hurl insults at him isn't passion, its just being an ass.
:D
Goibon
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand8185 Posts
May 05 2011 03:15 GMT
#679
Factory scouting continues to be possibly the most hilarious thing in this game to me.
Leenock =^_^= Ryung =^_^= Parting =^_^= herO =^_^= Guilty
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
May 05 2011 03:15 GMT
#680
Sc2 LR are really really sad .

Gonna be tense if Rainbow can pull this off
wat
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