They seem to have changed. Before hand polt/sc and losira/alicia were switched with clide/killer and virus/inca. Are these the real brackets now or did they get screwed up? I'm so confused.
On April 30 2011 22:07 iamthedave wrote: I should think it's obvious why zerg players are so damn upset, and anyone who's played the race should be able to see.
As a Zerg, it feels like Protoss (can't think of many or any Zergs who complain about Terran these days) have been given absolutely everything and we've got nothing. They can defend better, attack better, scout better, even expand better if they really want to. And these bronze-platinum and diamond level zergs look to pro games to see how Zerg SHOULD be played, and see no hope at all because the exact stuff they're losing too on ladder is beating the pros in major tournaments.
I think the most sensible post in this whole thread was the one noting how FF and Warp Gates give Protoss both attackers AND defenders advantage while negating defenders' advantage.
Yes the whining is annoying. But don't act like it isn't justified. Protoss on the ladder ARE cheesy MFers, and it IS annoying to lose to that over and over even when you scout it. MC's 99% nexus cancel began a new wave of cheese, and guess what? That's frustrating to lose to as well.
As Zerg, we feel like we've been the bottom of the pile forever, having to claw our way upwards against impossible odds and failing miserably.
I just shrug and get on with it, but I can't help but feel like I should just switch to Protoss and learn a few cheeses. That's really depressing IMO.
Does anyone seriously think that's the state of things? The bias in this is so obvious that i can't even begin to comment. I am a low masters Terran player and frankly Zerg feels to me unstoppable if my initial harass fails, but that experience does not justify any logical inductions about the state of the game in general. If the matchup is really broken, it will be fixed eventually, if this is too much for you then stop playing or stop posting this stuff on LR threads. It's becoming annoying as hell
edit: I too feel that warpgates are evil (regarding the state of the game and balance), but constant whining about them on LR does not offer anything
Yes, lots of Zerg think that's the state of things. I think it was on State of the Game when someone asked what they should do to be a pro player, and the first answer (even in jest) was 'Pick Protoss'.
And you're missing the point.
If people don't complain, why would anything be changed? People complain because they hope something is going to be done. And if you look at the upcoming patch notes, why lookie look, Blizzard are doing something to warp gates.
I'm not saying people are making logical deductions, I'm saying it's understandable why Zerg players are upset and why it's ridiculous to just rule it out as baseless whining. It very clearly isn't baseless. It is being exagerrated, though, as plenty of Zergs are getting into the semis and finals of tourneys if they aren't winning.
Z v T I think is balanced now. Terran have a great early game, Zerg have a great mid game, and late game is about equal if the Terran uses drop tech to its best.
P v everything seems unbalanced to me in various ways. But it seems fundamentally imbalanced that Protoss can just say 'my unit production is in the middle of yours right now' for the cost of 100 minerals, without ever threatening their actual unit production facilities. I'm not QQing or whining, it just seems like a fundamentally broken mechanic in a genre where the distance between unit production and where the fights take place is so critical. It won't change because the game would need to be rebuilt from the ground up, but I hope the other races get something in the upcoming expansions to help offset this.
I don't see any 'give and take' in warp gates. They're just plain better than every comparable structure in the game (due to pylon warp-in).
There's a difference between legitimate complaints and whining, the majority of the "protoss imba" goes into the "whining" category. And just as the Sotg guys said, the community keeps appealing to Blizz for changes instead of trying to develop something themselves. Protoss used to whine all day about mutas in PvZ and what happened? They developed a timing that hit before mutas.
Of course it does, because the majority of players aren't very good. But at lower levels, zergs tend to get absolutely roflstomped because they're hard to play.
Look at Idra. The most polarizing guy in the community.
Why is he so popular with Zerg? Is it because he's good? Well, he is but that's not the reason. Is it because he's a pro who complains about balance? Basically, yes.
Idra's become a hero because he's voicing what SO MANY ZERG PLAYERS ARE FEELING, and most importantly, he's in a position where he can't just be shouted down on a forum, which is what is happening to Zerg pretty much all the time (here included).
It's beyond the point where Zerg can even raise a legitimate complaint, because even if they have one it'll be viewed as standard OP whine. Complaining about the whiners doesn't help when that complaining has resulted in it being impossible to have even the beginnings of a discussion about balance issues. Both sides are annoyed with the other, but neither side is going away, that's for sure.
at lower levels balance does not matter, play better, seriously, you say its frustrating? well thats starcaft, it never gets any easier, if you cant enjoy the challenge, then stop playing.
On April 30 2011 22:07 iamthedave wrote: I should think it's obvious why zerg players are so damn upset, and anyone who's played the race should be able to see.
As a Zerg, it feels like Protoss (can't think of many or any Zergs who complain about Terran these days) have been given absolutely everything and we've got nothing. They can defend better, attack better, scout better, even expand better if they really want to. And these bronze-platinum and diamond level zergs look to pro games to see how Zerg SHOULD be played, and see no hope at all because the exact stuff they're losing too on ladder is beating the pros in major tournaments.
I think the most sensible post in this whole thread was the one noting how FF and Warp Gates give Protoss both attackers AND defenders advantage while negating defenders' advantage.
Yes the whining is annoying. But don't act like it isn't justified. Protoss on the ladder ARE cheesy MFers, and it IS annoying to lose to that over and over even when you scout it. MC's 99% nexus cancel began a new wave of cheese, and guess what? That's frustrating to lose to as well.
As Zerg, we feel like we've been the bottom of the pile forever, having to claw our way upwards against impossible odds and failing miserably.
I just shrug and get on with it, but I can't help but feel like I should just switch to Protoss and learn a few cheeses. That's really depressing IMO.
Does anyone seriously think that's the state of things? The bias in this is so obvious that i can't even begin to comment. I am a low masters Terran player and frankly Zerg feels to me unstoppable if my initial harass fails, but that experience does not justify any logical inductions about the state of the game in general. If the matchup is really broken, it will be fixed eventually, if this is too much for you then stop playing or stop posting this stuff on LR threads. It's becoming annoying as hell
edit: I too feel that warpgates are evil (regarding the state of the game and balance), but constant whining about them on LR does not offer anything
Yes, lots of Zerg think that's the state of things. I think it was on State of the Game when someone asked what they should do to be a pro player, and the first answer (even in jest) was 'Pick Protoss'.
And you're missing the point.
If people don't complain, why would anything be changed? People complain because they hope something is going to be done. And if you look at the upcoming patch notes, why lookie look, Blizzard are doing something to warp gates.
I'm not saying people are making logical deductions, I'm saying it's understandable why Zerg players are upset and why it's ridiculous to just rule it out as baseless whining. It very clearly isn't baseless. It is being exagerrated, though, as plenty of Zergs are getting into the semis and finals of tourneys if they aren't winning.
Z v T I think is balanced now. Terran have a great early game, Zerg have a great mid game, and late game is about equal if the Terran uses drop tech to its best.
P v everything seems unbalanced to me in various ways. But it seems fundamentally imbalanced that Protoss can just say 'my unit production is in the middle of yours right now' for the cost of 100 minerals, without ever threatening their actual unit production facilities. I'm not QQing or whining, it just seems like a fundamentally broken mechanic in a genre where the distance between unit production and where the fights take place is so critical. It won't change because the game would need to be rebuilt from the ground up, but I hope the other races get something in the upcoming expansions to help offset this.
I don't see any 'give and take' in warp gates. They're just plain better than every comparable structure in the game (due to pylon warp-in).
The warpgate mechanic is awesome, its power has been offset by the weakness of gateway units.
Aaaah damn July, this was your GSL to lose... you'll have your time you're an awesome player. Analyzing the games, I get the feeling that anypro studied July vs MC matches very well, and decided to exploit July's weakness to well played FF pressure. Even then, I'm somewhat impressed by anypro delaying that push. I think July expected it to come earlier, without observer and upgrades.
Well played by anypro imo. No more zerg tears plz. As much as I like July, he was outplayed in this series
Also, I will never stop believing in fruitdealer... Sangho is responsible for his loss, he made FD draw the god of ZvZ
They seem to have changed. Before hand polt/sc and losira/alicia were switched with clide/killer and virus/inca. Are these the real brackets now or did they get screwed up? I'm so confused.
Well GOM shows the next round to have TOP/NaDa and sC/Losira so I'm assuming they are on the same side of the bracket.
They seem to have changed. Before hand polt/sc and losira/alicia were switched with clide/killer and virus/inca. Are these the real brackets now or did they get screwed up? I'm so confused.
Well GOM shows the next round to have TOP/NaDa and sC/Losira so I'm assuming they are on the same side of the bracket.
WOW thats a pretty big disappointment. This decreases the chance of a Nestea vs Losira game by quite a lot
Whattttttt, July lost? Damn, I only called 1/4 yesterday, then. (Woohoo, InCa!)
Guess I'll either root for LosirA or NesTea, but my emotional involvement in this tournament has vanished. (Next tournament, Fruitdealer. Next tournament, you'll get it ... and don't come in looking like you're drunk. Rofl.)
On April 30 2011 22:07 iamthedave wrote: I should think it's obvious why zerg players are so damn upset, and anyone who's played the race should be able to see.
As a Zerg, it feels like Protoss (can't think of many or any Zergs who complain about Terran these days) have been given absolutely everything and we've got nothing. They can defend better, attack better, scout better, even expand better if they really want to. And these bronze-platinum and diamond level zergs look to pro games to see how Zerg SHOULD be played, and see no hope at all because the exact stuff they're losing too on ladder is beating the pros in major tournaments.
I think the most sensible post in this whole thread was the one noting how FF and Warp Gates give Protoss both attackers AND defenders advantage while negating defenders' advantage.
Yes the whining is annoying. But don't act like it isn't justified. Protoss on the ladder ARE cheesy MFers, and it IS annoying to lose to that over and over even when you scout it. MC's 99% nexus cancel began a new wave of cheese, and guess what? That's frustrating to lose to as well.
As Zerg, we feel like we've been the bottom of the pile forever, having to claw our way upwards against impossible odds and failing miserably.
I just shrug and get on with it, but I can't help but feel like I should just switch to Protoss and learn a few cheeses. That's really depressing IMO.
Does anyone seriously think that's the state of things? The bias in this is so obvious that i can't even begin to comment. I am a low masters Terran player and frankly Zerg feels to me unstoppable if my initial harass fails, but that experience does not justify any logical inductions about the state of the game in general. If the matchup is really broken, it will be fixed eventually, if this is too much for you then stop playing or stop posting this stuff on LR threads. It's becoming annoying as hell
edit: I too feel that warpgates are evil (regarding the state of the game and balance), but constant whining about them on LR does not offer anything
Yes, lots of Zerg think that's the state of things. I think it was on State of the Game when someone asked what they should do to be a pro player, and the first answer (even in jest) was 'Pick Protoss'.
And you're missing the point.
If people don't complain, why would anything be changed? People complain because they hope something is going to be done. And if you look at the upcoming patch notes, why lookie look, Blizzard are doing something to warp gates.
I'm not saying people are making logical deductions, I'm saying it's understandable why Zerg players are upset and why it's ridiculous to just rule it out as baseless whining. It very clearly isn't baseless. It is being exagerrated, though, as plenty of Zergs are getting into the semis and finals of tourneys if they aren't winning.
Z v T I think is balanced now. Terran have a great early game, Zerg have a great mid game, and late game is about equal if the Terran uses drop tech to its best.
P v everything seems unbalanced to me in various ways. But it seems fundamentally imbalanced that Protoss can just say 'my unit production is in the middle of yours right now' for the cost of 100 minerals, without ever threatening their actual unit production facilities. I'm not QQing or whining, it just seems like a fundamentally broken mechanic in a genre where the distance between unit production and where the fights take place is so critical. It won't change because the game would need to be rebuilt from the ground up, but I hope the other races get something in the upcoming expansions to help offset this.
I don't see any 'give and take' in warp gates. They're just plain better than every comparable structure in the game (due to pylon warp-in).
There's a difference between legitimate complaints and whining, the majority of the "protoss imba" goes into the "whining" category. And just as the Sotg guys said, the community keeps appealing to Blizz for changes instead of trying to develop something themselves. Protoss used to whine all day about mutas in PvZ and what happened? They developed a timing that hit before mutas.
Of course it does, because the majority of players aren't very good. But at lower levels, zergs tend to get absolutely roflstomped because they're hard to play.
Look at Idra. The most polarizing guy in the community.
Why is he so popular with Zerg? Is it because he's good? Well, he is but that's not the reason. Is it because he's a pro who complains about balance? Basically, yes.
Idra's become a hero because he's voicing what SO MANY ZERG PLAYERS ARE FEELING, and most importantly, he's in a position where he can't just be shouted down on a forum, which is what is happening to Zerg pretty much all the time (here included).
It's beyond the point where Zerg can even raise a legitimate complaint, because even if they have one it'll be viewed as standard OP whine. Complaining about the whiners doesn't help when that complaining has resulted in it being impossible to have even the beginnings of a discussion about balance issues. Both sides are annoyed with the other, but neither side is going away, that's for sure.
Idra is a whiner and rager, this has been true since his BW days where he didn't even play Zerg, he was Terran. He's popular because he's got skill and people both love and hate him. Why do you think so many people posted "lololol Idra rage xD" when he lost to Cruncher in the TSL? Or the hundreds of other "Idra rage" screenshots floating around?
They seem to have changed. Before hand polt/sc and losira/alicia were switched with clide/killer and virus/inca. Are these the real brackets now or did they get screwed up? I'm so confused.
What's confusing though is that the preview screen at the end of yesterdays matches showed winner of TOP/Nada vs sc/Losira which I think is a mistake. (Remember the production is done on the fly so it's likely more prone to errors).
Not sure though.
EDIT: It should also be noted though, that whatever the case Nada vs TOP and sC vs Losira will be played on the same day (this was the case last season also, where two matches from separate ends of the bracket were played on the same day)
There's a nice race distribution going on atm in Code S with 3 Terran, 3 Protoss and 2 Zergs (Code A 6/8 Terran 2/8 Zerg lol) and I honestly don't see either Killer, Inca or Anypro making it to the finals so I don't really get all the Protoss whining.
Whats great about july is that at the end he used an overseer to check what anypro had at his base, to know what went wrong. Characteristics of a good player
They seem to have changed. Before hand polt/sc and losira/alicia were switched with clide/killer and virus/inca. Are these the real brackets now or did they get screwed up? I'm so confused.
Well GOM shows the next round to have TOP/NaDa and sC/Losira so I'm assuming they are on the same side of the bracket.
I accidentally reviewed the different bracket on Liquipedia and just noticed it, but since I couldn't confirm any change by GOM I reverted it to how it was before and what the official site states:
The schedule that two halves of different sides of the bracket are playing on the same day (TOP/NaDa and sC/Losira) has been the same in the previous GSLs (probably because of the group stage: groups A/B plays first, groups G/H last, which carries on into the bracket).
Well, I hope I'm not somehow wrong about it^^
Edit: pdd basically wrote the same thing 3 posts above mine, it just took me waaay too long to click on "Post". And to clear up some possible confusion: The bracket on Liquipedia that SidianTheBard saw and asked about had the winners of TOP/NaDa and sC/Losira face each other in the next round, different from what should now be on Liquipedia.
On April 30 2011 17:17 stormtemplar wrote: why don't zergs just get a couple of more units when their playing blind?
cause they are retarded and all-in econ
wtf is an all-in econ? you know that zerg is limited by the larva mechanic right? when you are out of larva you can't just "get a couple more units"
He's talking about the fact that sometimes Zergs will think, well I can't scout him, better make 40 drones. And then QQ when they get attacked having 0 units.
Anypro really impressed me. Aside from that trainwreck game 2....his builds were executed perfectly and the builds was really refined. He definitely deserves to be in top 8 and I usually don`t care about toss players.
On April 30 2011 23:41 DontRushMe.Bro wrote: Seriously, for everyone crying Protoss IMBA!, go pick Protoss and see if you can get to high masters with it. Chances are you will realise that all three races are hard to play - each rewards a different skillset. Personally, I think Terran rewards multitasking and having above average macro/micro, Zerg rewards having immaculate timings and protoss rewards good micro, good game-sense and ability to do strong timing attacks.
GG wp anypro. Would have liked July to win, but the better player won. Looks like ATM that Nestea and Losira are favourites. Would love to see NaDa win it though
"Go pick protoss and see if you can get high masters with it" is a terrible basis oO. More accurate would be "go pick protoss and see how much it raises your ladder rank" (basically a comparison between you without toss and you with toss. Saying "oh you didn't get to high masters? well toss isn't easy" to a guy who only reached low diamond with his main race isn't exactly the best evidence).
On April 30 2011 22:07 iamthedave wrote: I should think it's obvious why zerg players are so damn upset, and anyone who's played the race should be able to see.
As a Zerg, it feels like Protoss (can't think of many or any Zergs who complain about Terran these days) have been given absolutely everything and we've got nothing. They can defend better, attack better, scout better, even expand better if they really want to. And these bronze-platinum and diamond level zergs look to pro games to see how Zerg SHOULD be played, and see no hope at all because the exact stuff they're losing too on ladder is beating the pros in major tournaments.
I think the most sensible post in this whole thread was the one noting how FF and Warp Gates give Protoss both attackers AND defenders advantage while negating defenders' advantage.
Yes the whining is annoying. But don't act like it isn't justified. Protoss on the ladder ARE cheesy MFers, and it IS annoying to lose to that over and over even when you scout it. MC's 99% nexus cancel began a new wave of cheese, and guess what? That's frustrating to lose to as well.
As Zerg, we feel like we've been the bottom of the pile forever, having to claw our way upwards against impossible odds and failing miserably.
I just shrug and get on with it, but I can't help but feel like I should just switch to Protoss and learn a few cheeses. That's really depressing IMO.
Does anyone seriously think that's the state of things? The bias in this is so obvious that i can't even begin to comment. I am a low masters Terran player and frankly Zerg feels to me unstoppable if my initial harass fails, but that experience does not justify any logical inductions about the state of the game in general. If the matchup is really broken, it will be fixed eventually, if this is too much for you then stop playing or stop posting this stuff on LR threads. It's becoming annoying as hell
edit: I too feel that warpgates are evil (regarding the state of the game and balance), but constant whining about them on LR does not offer anything
Yes, lots of Zerg think that's the state of things. I think it was on State of the Game when someone asked what they should do to be a pro player, and the first answer (even in jest) was 'Pick Protoss'.
And you're missing the point.
If people don't complain, why would anything be changed? People complain because they hope something is going to be done. And if you look at the upcoming patch notes, why lookie look, Blizzard are doing something to warp gates.
I'm not saying people are making logical deductions, I'm saying it's understandable why Zerg players are upset and why it's ridiculous to just rule it out as baseless whining. It very clearly isn't baseless. It is being exagerrated, though, as plenty of Zergs are getting into the semis and finals of tourneys if they aren't winning.
Z v T I think is balanced now. Terran have a great early game, Zerg have a great mid game, and late game is about equal if the Terran uses drop tech to its best.
P v everything seems unbalanced to me in various ways. But it seems fundamentally imbalanced that Protoss can just say 'my unit production is in the middle of yours right now' for the cost of 100 minerals, without ever threatening their actual unit production facilities. I'm not QQing or whining, it just seems like a fundamentally broken mechanic in a genre where the distance between unit production and where the fights take place is so critical. It won't change because the game would need to be rebuilt from the ground up, but I hope the other races get something in the upcoming expansions to help offset this.
I don't see any 'give and take' in warp gates. They're just plain better than every comparable structure in the game (due to pylon warp-in).
There's a difference between legitimate complaints and whining, the majority of the "protoss imba" goes into the "whining" category. And just as the Sotg guys said, the community keeps appealing to Blizz for changes instead of trying to develop something themselves. Protoss used to whine all day about mutas in PvZ and what happened? They developed a timing that hit before mutas.
Of course it does, because the majority of players aren't very good. But at lower levels, zergs tend to get absolutely roflstomped because they're hard to play.
Look at Idra. The most polarizing guy in the community.
Why is he so popular with Zerg? Is it because he's good? Well, he is but that's not the reason. Is it because he's a pro who complains about balance? Basically, yes.
Idra's become a hero because he's voicing what SO MANY ZERG PLAYERS ARE FEELING, and most importantly, he's in a position where he can't just be shouted down on a forum, which is what is happening to Zerg pretty much all the time (here included).
It's beyond the point where Zerg can even raise a legitimate complaint, because even if they have one it'll be viewed as standard OP whine. Complaining about the whiners doesn't help when that complaining has resulted in it being impossible to have even the beginnings of a discussion about balance issues. Both sides are annoyed with the other, but neither side is going away, that's for sure.
Idra is a whiner and rager, this has been true since his BW days where he didn't even play Zerg, he was Terran. He's popular because he's got skill and people both love and hate him. Why do you think so many people posted "lololol Idra rage xD" when he lost to Cruncher in the TSL? Or the hundreds of other "Idra rage" screenshots floating around?
Because theyre stupid and like to think "lol protoss" or "you're terrible" means that the guy behind the computer is in the process of breaking a table? The idra rage thing is so horribly overblown. He likes to say what's on his mind, that doesn't mean hes fuming with anger every time he says it.
On May 01 2011 01:22 ChrisXIV wrote: Did InCa win because he suddenly became good at PvT or did Virus hand him the games?
Virus threw away game 1 but it was closer than it should have been. Inca was 2 upgrades ahead until the very end. (2/2 when Virus 0/0 etc). Eventually just kind of rolled him over.
Game 2 was a raven/banshee/tank/marine/scv all in (twice) vs nexus first. Killed the nexus on the first push but only had 11 scvs left to inca's 38. After the 2nd one failed he GG'd out. He lost his raven and couldn't remake it after the first push so the 2nd one was never going to work.
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