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On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote:
lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
seeing an expansion and pure sentries = you have to pump mass drones in order to be even in economy... unless you scout the 4gate or are all-inning its probably impossible to stop since you devote so much larva to drones... Getting the scout of all the gates is hard, and rarely do toss players actually cancle...
You make it sound like such a stupid noob mistake by haypro to lose to that. The 4gate fake expo is extremely tough to scout, and they cancel nexus at 99% completion, which is so much time the zerg commits to making drones if you want to be even or above in economy with the protoss. Even regular 4gates give alot of top zergs alot of trouble, this one is even stronger. If haypro blindly makes units he will lose the 99% of the games where the protoss doesnt go fake expo, and a well simcitied 3gate expand with alot of sentries and well placed forcefields can usually fend off roach all-ins fairly well. Distances are pretty far on crossfire as well, making the roach/ling allin vs 3gate even weaker
I'm not saying this is imbalanced, I'm only saying that it is a really strong cheese build and you guys are talking down on haypro like hes some silly noob for losing to a fake nexus 4gate... Now the first game I agree haypro played pretty nooby with his 6pool but like gretorp/inc said, he never practices it so obviously he doesnt execute it 100% correctly.
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On April 30 2011 13:31 MrCon wrote:
I'm not even sure haypro scouted the nexus, did he ?
Anyway this build is very hard to stop, as soon as we saw the drones in production when squirtle left his base this was over. 3 queens but no transfuse on the spine too.
It was pretty funny, Haypro scouted it at like 95%. I thought that it was going to be a hilarious fake-expo where the nexus doesn't even get scouted.
Every single zerg diamond level and above constantly runs lings in and out to check exact expo timings and unit counts. It's hard to believe a professional didn't scout the expansion area for almost the entire nexus build time.
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On April 30 2011 13:33 MrSexington wrote:
I've actually never seen Haypro win a single series is any tournament. All the love for him must be carry over from Brood War. I've heard he did well in a team league and an in-house liquid tournament?
Haypro just recently made a beastly run through the open bracket at MLG dallas.
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I'm just disappointed about the 6 pool on Terminus in general. It's the very definition of a coin-flip build. If the opponent forge expands you're toast. If they nexus first you (probably) win. For Haypro to do this he's basically giving himself a vote of no confidence. It's like IdrA 6 pooling in the second game against MC in Dreamhack. That, at least, was IdrA giving up after a long macro game, whereas this game Haypro didn't even try a macro game on the best map for it.
I suppose the reasonable explanation is that Haypro thinks he's out of practice in ZvP and can't win a game straight-up against Squirtle. But that's what disappoints me.
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On April 30 2011 13:33 Kelethius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote:
lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad seeing an expansion and pure sentries = you have to pump mass drones in order to be even in economy... unless you scout the 4gate or are all-inning its probably impossible to stop since you devote so much larva to drones... Getting the scout of all the gates is hard, and rarely do toss players actually cancle... You make it sound like such a stupid noob mistake by haypro to lose to that. The 4gate fake expo is extremely tough to scout, and they cancel nexus at 99% completion, which is so much time the zerg commits to making drones if you want to be even or above in economy with the protoss. Even regular 4gates give alot of top zergs alot of trouble, this one is even stronger. If haypro blindly makes units he will lose the 99% of the games where the protoss doesnt go fake expo, and a well simcitied 3gate expand with alot of sentries and well placed forcefields can usually fend off roach all-ins fairly well. Distances are pretty far on crossfire as well, making the roach/ling allin vs 3gate even weaker I'm not saying this is imbalanced, I'm only saying that it is a really strong cheese build and you guys are talking down on haypro like hes some silly noob for losing to a fake nexus 4gate... Now the first game I agree haypro played pretty nooby with his 6pool but like gretorp/inc said, he never practices it so obviously he doesnt execute it 100% correctly.
The problem was that most zergs see the expo and automatically think "build drones" when in reality, it's a good cue to do some roach/ling pressure. If you've watched idrA's stream recently you'll see that idrA does roach/ling pressure most every game vs a fairly fast expanding Protoss. It really seems like the only way right now to counter the Nexus cancel build. Generally when a Protoss is trying to expand on just 3 gateways they don't have enough units to fend off roach/ling pressure (can defend ramp, but not expo).
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Is the series over? Stream is down
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Honestly, I have no idea what's going on with Haypro. I think he's really good, but he's been slumping HARD lately. He hasn't shown very good results overall, but every time he enters a tournament I think "this will be the tournament haypro dominates!" but he never does. He's a great guy but Idk if he has what it takes to be a progamer. Just look at his ladder rank: http://sc2ranks.com/kr/2238284/LiquidHayprO he has a below 50% win ratio and he's not even in grandmasters. I feel so bad for the guy, because we all know he is really nice and also really good, but Idk what to say to defend him. He just doesn't perform. <3 you haypro, i hope you do better soon bud.
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On April 30 2011 13:40 Zzoram wrote:
Is the series over? Stream is down
Yes, it's over.
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On April 30 2011 13:40 Lumbridge wrote:Honestly, I have no idea what's going on with Haypro. I think he's really good, but he's been slumping HARD lately. He hasn't shown very good results overall, but every time he enters a tournament I think "this will be the tournament haypro dominates!" but he never does. He's a great guy but Idk if he has what it takes to be a progamer. Just look at his ladder rank: http://sc2ranks.com/kr/2238284/LiquidHayprO he has a below 50% win ratio and he's not even in grandmasters. I feel so bad for the guy, because we all know he is really nice and also really good, but Idk what to say to defend him. He just doesn't perform. <3 you haypro, i hope you do better soon bud.
Didn't MC say he was playing less?
But yeah, I feel like a lot of pros hyped up Haypro but he never ever really performed.
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Does anyone else feel like TL needs to make some changes to their lineup? At which point does a team decide to give the second chance speech. Because I really think that TL needs to shake up their roster a bit. They've admitted to underperforming and its been like this for about half a year now. How much longer will they keep the same roster?
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On April 30 2011 13:42 Clicker wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 13:40 Lumbridge wrote:Honestly, I have no idea what's going on with Haypro. I think he's really good, but he's been slumping HARD lately. He hasn't shown very good results overall, but every time he enters a tournament I think "this will be the tournament haypro dominates!" but he never does. He's a great guy but Idk if he has what it takes to be a progamer. Just look at his ladder rank: http://sc2ranks.com/kr/2238284/LiquidHayprO he has a below 50% win ratio and he's not even in grandmasters. I feel so bad for the guy, because we all know he is really nice and also really good, but Idk what to say to defend him. He just doesn't perform. <3 you haypro, i hope you do better soon bud. Didn't MC say he was playing less? But yeah, I feel like a lot of pros hyped up Haypro but he never ever really performed.
I thought it was Ret that was the one that practiced the least? Not sure, I could be wrong.
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On April 30 2011 13:33 Kelethius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote:
lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad seeing an expansion and pure sentries = you have to pump mass drones in order to be even in economy... unless you scout the 4gate or are all-inning its probably impossible to stop since you devote so much larva to drones... Getting the scout of all the gates is hard, and rarely do toss players actually cancle... You make it sound like such a stupid noob mistake by haypro to lose to that. The 4gate fake expo is extremely tough to scout, and they cancel nexus at 99% completion, which is so much time the zerg commits to making drones if you want to be even or above in economy with the protoss. Even regular 4gates give alot of top zergs alot of trouble, this one is even stronger. If haypro blindly makes units he will lose the 99% of the games where the protoss doesnt go fake expo, and a well simcitied 3gate expand with alot of sentries and well placed forcefields can usually fend off roach all-ins fairly well. Distances are pretty far on crossfire as well, making the roach/ling allin vs 3gate even weaker I'm not saying this is imbalanced, I'm only saying that it is a really strong cheese build and you guys are talking down on haypro like hes some silly noob for losing to a fake nexus 4gate... Now the first game I agree haypro played pretty nooby with his 6pool but like gretorp/inc said, he never practices it so obviously he doesnt execute it 100% correctly.
These days, if you aren't dropping your forge as your Nexus is going down then you lose to Roach/Ling all-ins on maps with wide naturals, it should be telling when someone like Squirtle always does a 3gate expand with a forge chooses to not go one.
The build is difficult to stop, yes, but given how Squirtle played it out, Haypro had enough information to make a good judgement call on what Squirtle was going to do.
Not sure how good Haypro is at reading Protoss builds via Units, but in PvP, it isn't difficult to pinpoint builds by catching glimpses of the other sides unit composition, the gas and mineral distribution tend to be somewhat obvious.
Squirtle was not hiding his units either like MC did, he had them in plain sight and from the amount of mineral heavy units he had, it is quite obvious that there were no plans to drop the forge anytime soon---you have to assume a few things, if he goes through with the expansion then he is playing risky, there is no chance he can stop any Roach/Ling all-ins.
I think this goes back to what MorroW said in Losira vs Alicia thread, if Zerg Roach/Ling all-in more, they can force a standard for 3gate expand from Protoss, such that reading it is fairly easy, but as it is now, Protoss cut corners and the Zerg allow them so we have reached a point where the greediness is considered standard. But yeah, I just want to stress, a Roach/Ling all-in would have rolled Squirtle, you need that Forge up faster, certainly before the Nexus is complete
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On April 30 2011 13:43 Cartel wrote:
Does anyone else feel like TL needs to make some changes to their lineup? At which point does a team decide to give the second chance speech. Because I really think that TL needs to shake up their roster a bit. They've admitted to underperforming and its been like this for about half a year now. How much longer will they keep the same roster?
I think you're missing the point of TL team. They're all family. They've known each other for a very long time, and have consistently been giving great results. They've been community members and continue to do so. Representing tl isn't just being good(which they already are). They're still known as one of the best teams, and even if they're not showing results, every top player knows they're really strong. they won't change their roster.
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I think you're missing the point of TL team. They're all family. They've known each other for a very long time, and have consistently been giving great results. They've been community members and continue to do so. Representing tl isn't just being good(which they already are). They're still known as one of the best teams, and even if they're not showing results, every top player knows they're really strong. they won't change their roster.
They don't need to change their roster but certainly could do something like bring Haypro back home and support a different player in Korea, either a new one or an existing one not there right now. I know we shouldn't put so much emphasis on one bad series but the showing Haypro gave us tonight, especially in game one, could give one the impression he is out of practice.
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On April 30 2011 13:54 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +I think you're missing the point of TL team. They're all family. They've known each other for a very long time, and have consistently been giving great results. They've been community members and continue to do so. Representing tl isn't just being good(which they already are). They're still known as one of the best teams, and even if they're not showing results, every top player knows they're really strong. they won't change their roster. They don't need to change their roster but certainly could do something like bring Haypro back home and support a different player in Korea, either a new one or an existing one not there right now. I know we shouldn't put so much emphasis on one bad series but the showing Haypro gave us tonight, especially in game one, could give one the impression he is out of practice.
Harsh. All the people who want to be in Korea are in Korea for TL. The people who have left Korea made that decision by themselves.
Adding people to Liquid just for the sake of getting more players in Korea seems dumb, especially when the scene in the west is blowing up.
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Any updates on recommended games. The OP only lists + Show Spoiler + twice, and doesn't have results for 2 matches. Any other games/sets that stand out?
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On April 30 2011 13:15 haylmfao wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote:
I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players. or maybe he's just bad Seriously I've never seen him win a series in a tournament
Not only is this a useless fucking post, it's just plain wrong. I don't think i'll ever understand this kind of senseless hate against players.
The sense I get, both from his recent play and from other player's statements, is that Haypro is in bit of a mental slump. I can imagine being knocked from code A would be extremely disheartening. The korean sc2 scene is so unforgiving right now.
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On April 30 2011 14:39 Duoma wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2011 13:15 haylmfao wrote:On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote:
I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players. or maybe he's just bad Seriously I've never seen him win a series in a tournament Not only is this a useless fucking post, it's just plain wrong. I don't think i'll ever understand this kind of senseless hate against players. The sense I get, both from his recent play and from other player's statements, is that Haypro is in bit of a mental slump. I can imagine being knocked from code A would be extremely disheartening. The korean sc2 scene is so unforgiving right now.
I get that Haypro (as well as any other player) has their slumps every once and a while, but lets be honest: asides from the PAX TL event, Haypro just hasn't won or placed very high in anything much.
He shows better games on his stream then in any tournaments.
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who won in KR vs SLUSH? OP didn't update :/
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LvX7b.png)
