Looking forward to Nada vs. Strelok! Also a couple of interesting ZvP matchups, the metagame is evolving right now, let's see how these Zerg players perform.
I really don't like these slanted camera angles, it doesn't look good at all. The same goes for the effects, I think it looks much better and professional just watching it straight up. There seems to be a grey block where the table used to be. Strange.
I like how they're making an effort with the camera. Television programmes are very clever with the camera and constantly changing what you are looking at. This is because it is scientifically proven that we lose interest easily by looking at the same image. That's why they try to change the angle and perspective every few seconds.
But i think for this particular thing, it would just be better to have a simple straight forward setup. Unlike TV shows, they only have one camera (I believe anyway) and next to none of the production available, plus the main reason why people come here to watch this at the end of the day is to watch Starcraft and that's pretty much all we want. The rest is a bonus. So i think people will be perfectly fine with the extras being basic.
Watching the pre-game show on mute while listening to TB's IPL cast and seeing how close the audio matches up with iNc's voice has been the funniest part of my week..
lol, Why were they giving Naniwa a hard time on being supply blocked when he was blocked for maybe 5-6seconds, but don't mention that DDE was stuck on 62 food for like a minute
I think if DDE noticed his back rocks were being attacked before they were less than a second from going down he might have been able to hold that off.
This map is beautiful for blue flame even during mid-game against T. I'm definitely going to try this hellion/tank. As long as you're careful about banshees it seems solid.
On April 30 2011 10:39 Drazerk wrote: Strelock pushing out nada keeps on losing scvs to hellion drops
thanks we are all watching the stream no need to repeat what everyone can actually see
Firs time in an LR thread? There is a reason why this is called an LR thread. The "Live report" are mainly for those who are just browsing the forums and not able to watch it live.
On April 30 2011 10:39 Drazerk wrote: Strelock pushing out nada keeps on losing scvs to hellion drops
thanks we are all watching the stream no need to repeat what everyone can actually see
This is a Live report thread.
what does that even mean? everyone can see whats going on, no need to spam in this thread
Are you kidding? There are people at work, or unable to watch the match for some reason or another. This thread is the LIVE REPORT thread so we can REPORT what is going on LIVE for those people.
On April 30 2011 10:39 Drazerk wrote: Strelock pushing out nada keeps on losing scvs to hellion drops
thanks we are all watching the stream no need to repeat what everyone can actually see
This is a Live report thread.
what does that even mean? everyone can see whats going on, no need to spam in this thread
Are you kidding? There are people at work, or unable to watch the match for some reason or another. This thread is the LIVE REPORT thread so we can REPORT what is going on LIVE for those people.
On April 30 2011 10:39 Drazerk wrote: Strelock pushing out nada keeps on losing scvs to hellion drops
thanks we are all watching the stream no need to repeat what everyone can actually see
This is a Live report thread.
what does that even mean? everyone can see whats going on, no need to spam in this thread
Are you kidding? There are people at work, or unable to watch the match for some reason or another. This thread is the LIVE REPORT thread so we can REPORT what is going on LIVE for those people.
On April 30 2011 10:39 Drazerk wrote: Strelock pushing out nada keeps on losing scvs to hellion drops
thanks we are all watching the stream no need to repeat what everyone can actually see
This is a Live report thread.
what does that even mean? everyone can see whats going on, no need to spam in this thread
That means that posting what is happening is the entire bloody point of the thread, some people can't watch the games right now and come to the thread to see what's going on.
On April 30 2011 10:39 Drazerk wrote: Strelock pushing out nada keeps on losing scvs to hellion drops
thanks we are all watching the stream no need to repeat what everyone can actually see
This is a Live report thread.
what does that even mean? everyone can see whats going on, no need to spam in this thread
Are you kidding? There are people at work, or unable to watch the match for some reason or another. This thread is the LIVE REPORT thread so we can REPORT what is going on LIVE for those people.
it's not live the stream is pre-recorded
Please stop trolling people
Strelock at the south with nada at the north on crossfire
On April 30 2011 10:39 Drazerk wrote: Strelock pushing out nada keeps on losing scvs to hellion drops
thanks we are all watching the stream no need to repeat what everyone can actually see
This is a Live report thread.
what does that even mean? everyone can see whats going on, no need to spam in this thread
Are you kidding? There are people at work, or unable to watch the match for some reason or another. This thread is the LIVE REPORT thread so we can REPORT what is going on LIVE for those people.
On April 30 2011 10:39 Drazerk wrote: Strelock pushing out nada keeps on losing scvs to hellion drops
thanks we are all watching the stream no need to repeat what everyone can actually see
This is a Live report thread.
what does that even mean? everyone can see whats going on, no need to spam in this thread
Are you kidding? There are people at work, or unable to watch the match for some reason or another. This thread is the LIVE REPORT thread so we can REPORT what is going on LIVE for those people.
it's not live the stream is pre-recorded
Dude, take your 19 posts, put them in your mouth, eat them and be quiet.
You don't even have an idea what these threads are for.. If you are trolling, you are indeed successful, you are annoying the crap out of me..
On April 30 2011 10:39 Drazerk wrote: Strelock pushing out nada keeps on losing scvs to hellion drops
thanks we are all watching the stream no need to repeat what everyone can actually see
This is a Live report thread.
what does that even mean? everyone can see whats going on, no need to spam in this thread
Are you kidding? There are people at work, or unable to watch the match for some reason or another. This thread is the LIVE REPORT thread so we can REPORT what is going on LIVE for those people.
Nada you got this lets go Awesome micro by Nada, killing scvs and supply depots and marines. Strelok gets a hellion out and cleans up Nada's forces. Nada expanding.
This stream lag is ridiculous Like its virtually unwatchable. Happens both on internet explorer and on firefox. Is there any way to tell justin.tv to get their shit together?
On April 30 2011 10:53 GhostFall wrote: This stream lag is ridiculous Like its virtually unwatchable. Happens both on internet explorer and on firefox. Is there any way to tell justin.tv to get their shit together?
Working fine for me, I got nasl on one screen and ipl on the other and both are perfectly smooth.
just a note to production (that I'm sure they've already caught if they're watching this): the intermission music is quite a bit too loud before/during the game round-up talk between games.. (Great job this week, as a whole, though)
On April 30 2011 11:04 Daft Commander wrote: I feel that Nada's attempt to kill the PF was unnecessary and took too much time and units from actually putting better pressure somewhere else.
Yeah i agree, and think what would have happened had a lesser player tried that. I think with Nadas superior macro and multitask it worked ok for him, but could have caused problems.
On April 30 2011 11:09 I)etox wrote: nada has so many marines queued o__O
He never has that otherwise O,o, Wonder if it has to do with the increased latency from kr. (He cancelled some of them though before they changed the building so maybe he cancelled all but one)
Haha that one shot on the hellions and tanks was pretty cool by Nada
Nada now in a good position, came back from that hellion harass nicely. Nada dropping the main with 2 medivacs of marines, Strelok cleans it up with not a lot of losses
The Genius Terran living up to his name. See a build once in game one. Counters it very well in game 3. Next time he will see it he will crush it. Nada in the lead with 13 tanks vs Strelok 12 tanks and around equal supplies after he lost 20workers compared to Strelok 5 at the first 8-10 minutes
Smart move by Nada, takes his bio to attack the 3 oclock expansion forces Strelok to move his army to defend, Nada then takes out the gold expansion and Nada takes ove the position.
very nice move there by nada. moves his bio to threaten strelok's third, and while strelok send his army to deal with it, nada moves up his tank line and takes out strelok's gold
I really wish nada would've switched to banshees or bc's....strelok's only aa is a couple vikings. A surprise switch would really get all those tanks. GG though.
I also loved how Gretorp went "3 SCVs! That's so many to have in there... of course being facetious." I'm sure he was expecting a ton of them there or something lol, he sounded pretty serious then like "woops, guess not".
On April 30 2011 11:37 Warrior Madness wrote: Holy shit, Strelok sounds like a bw terran unit but I forget which one. I think it might be the battlecruiser.
He sounds like a male version of the valkyrie to me...
On April 30 2011 11:36 drox22 wrote: whats with the music man, seriously i can barely understand what they are saying because the music is so loud /rage
seriously this is the kind of shit that makes people rage at NASL, How on earth is this OK'd and shipped out. Do they not have any time to check the casts before they go? I know they record in advance. It's insane to me a professional organization can have so many amateur mistakes.
anyway... the games and casting were great so far.
On April 30 2011 11:36 Duoma wrote: Should probably turn down/off the music during interviews.... For that matter I would just rethink the music altogether. Feels very tacked on.
I feel like i'm watching a best buy commercial when a game ends. To be clear, that is not a good thing.
On April 30 2011 11:36 Duoma wrote: Should probably turn down/off the music during interviews.... For that matter I would just rethink the music altogether. Feels very tacked on.
I feel like i'm watching a best buy commercial when a game ends. To be clear, that is not a good thing.
music is fine, fills dead air.
Also fills the live air so that you can't hear anything that is going on
On April 30 2011 11:36 Duoma wrote: Should probably turn down/off the music during interviews.... For that matter I would just rethink the music altogether. Feels very tacked on.
I feel like i'm watching a best buy commercial when a game ends. To be clear, that is not a good thing.
music is fine, fills dead air.
Music, as a concept, is fine. THE music that is being used is not at all fine. Just play Starcraft music or even GSL-style goofy metal. Not this miserable elevator-rock.
Maybe it's just me, but I would rather have dead air than music that makes me feel like i'm in a department store.
So uh, I guess moonglade's plan was to rush to broodlords. Be aggressive with roaches, whittle down his army before he reaches 2+ collosus. But he didn't expect the stargate and that threw him off a little bit.
Man moonglades been such a dissapointment since his IEM preformance dont know why =/. That was possibly the most uninspired zerg play we've seen this nasl
players still going Roach Hydra etc are not dealing with the protoss death ball well at the moment hopefully moonglade can do some inventive play and make a come back
Moonglade obviously was gearing up for some sort of burrow roach timing attack, but axslav killed to much OLs/drones for moonglade to even get roaches up. If the air came 30-60s later, moonglade would have been in an ok position.
I think his plan didn't go well, he was going to drop roaches (edit: yeah burrow timing not drop). But the harass with the phoenix fucked up his plan. That's why it looked so one sided
Moonglade did a really good job that match killing colossi, and that's about it. He really needed to capitalize on that and maybe get some hydras and/or lings as reinforcements. Watching him try to fight a maxed Toss Stalker/Immortal ball with Roaches = sad panda (or koala as it were).
On April 30 2011 11:58 Drazerk wrote: players still going Roach Hydra etc are not dealing with the protoss death ball well at the moment hopefully moonglade can do some inventive play and make a come back
Pretty much everytime I see a Zerg go for Roach/Hydra I assume they are going to lose. It's possibly the worst comp for beating Protoss. yes, it keeps them alive early but anything after that it's a waste of resources.
Not sure why there is confusion about Moonglades build. Double warren upgrades / fast burrow is a straight counter to forge fe into 6 gate push. He saw the Forge fe, scouted and got nothing and had to guess and was wrong as axlav went stargate.
Its interesting that some of these new, large maps pose similar problems for ZvP as the older 1 base builds do. Protoss can FE into a few different builds that the Zerg cannot scout and need to make a blind choice.
Not to say that Moonglade didnt make mistakes. Poor defence against the phoenix harrass. Lost his 4th, and did not use any drop harass.
On April 30 2011 11:36 Duoma wrote: Should probably turn down/off the music during interviews.... For that matter I would just rethink the music altogether. Feels very tacked on.
I feel like i'm watching a best buy commercial when a game ends. To be clear, that is not a good thing.
music is fine, fills dead air.
Music, as a concept, is fine. THE music that is being used is not at all fine. Just play Starcraft music or even GSL-style goofy metal. Not this miserable elevator-rock.
Maybe it's just me, but I would rather have dead air than music that makes me feel like i'm in a department store.
The GSL goofy metal is total crap.. and it's just you.
On April 30 2011 11:58 Drazerk wrote: players still going Roach Hydra etc are not dealing with the protoss death ball well at the moment hopefully moonglade can do some inventive play and make a come back
Pretty much everytime I see a Zerg go for Roach/Hydra I assume they are going to lose. It's possibly the worst comp for beating Protoss. yes, it keeps them alive early but anything after that it's a waste of resources.
It has its uses, and can win games, but it usually is pretty difficult to pull out a victory with it. If a Zerg player uses a Roach/Hydra/Corruptor army and beats the Protoss deathball, he honestly can say he outplayed his opponent to win - it is that difficult.
I find the biggest issue with it is that it works in a similar way to Marine/Marauder/Viking - but has inferior range and dps without having more speed or health. Of course, you can remax on it quicker, but I don't think it is the right answer.
Usually, I find that heavier Zergling play does better, simply because Zerglings have a high amount of health and damage for their cost (essentially nothing but larva).
On April 30 2011 11:58 Drazerk wrote: players still going Roach Hydra etc are not dealing with the protoss death ball well at the moment hopefully moonglade can do some inventive play and make a come back
Pretty much everytime I see a Zerg go for Roach/Hydra I assume they are going to lose. It's possibly the worst comp for beating Protoss. yes, it keeps them alive early but anything after that it's a waste of resources.
It has its uses, and can win games, but it usually is pretty difficult to pull out a victory with it. If a Zerg player uses a Roach/Hydra/Corruptor army and beats the Protoss deathball, he honestly can say he outplayed his opponent to win - it is that difficult.
I find the biggest issue with it is that it works in a similar way to Marine/Marauder/Viking - but has inferior range and dps without having more speed or health. Of course, you can remax on it quicker, but I don't think it is the right answer.
Usually, I find that heavier Zergling play does better, simply because Zerglings have a high amount of health and damage for their cost (essentially nothing but larva).
Same, I find heavy zergling/Muta/baneling drop against Protoss to be way way more effective.
On April 30 2011 11:36 Duoma wrote: Should probably turn down/off the music during interviews.... For that matter I would just rethink the music altogether. Feels very tacked on.
I feel like i'm watching a best buy commercial when a game ends. To be clear, that is not a good thing.
music is fine, fills dead air.
Music, as a concept, is fine. THE music that is being used is not at all fine. Just play Starcraft music or even GSL-style goofy metal. Not this miserable elevator-rock.
Maybe it's just me, but I would rather have dead air than music that makes me feel like i'm in a department store.
The GSL goofy metal is total crap.. and it's just you.
No actually. The GSL music and all goofy/nerdy epic-ness is the perfect soundtrack for a Starcraft tournament. What could be more perfect than two nerds fighting each other in a computer game with high-pitched vocals and guitar solos in the background? (the answer is nothing)
On April 30 2011 11:36 Duoma wrote: Should probably turn down/off the music during interviews.... For that matter I would just rethink the music altogether. Feels very tacked on.
I feel like i'm watching a best buy commercial when a game ends. To be clear, that is not a good thing.
music is fine, fills dead air.
Music, as a concept, is fine. THE music that is being used is not at all fine. Just play Starcraft music or even GSL-style goofy metal. Not this miserable elevator-rock.
Maybe it's just me, but I would rather have dead air than music that makes me feel like i'm in a department store.
The GSL goofy metal is total crap.. and it's just you.
No actually. The GSL music and all goofy/nerdy epic-ness is the perfect soundtrack for a Starcraft tournament. What could be more perfect than two nerds fighting each other in a computer game with high-pitched vocals and guitar solos in the background? (the answer is nothing)
On April 30 2011 12:12 Whitewing wrote: And the victory goes to AXSLAV THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS, CHAMPION OF AIUR, LORD OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND AWESOME.
Game was over when moonglade missed the hydra timing. There was no way he was gonna win after that. Hydras are just horrible. Hard countered by collosus, immobile, and literally can't do anything vs forcefields. Add to that the fact that crossfire is narrow and pretty heavily favors collosus play.
On April 30 2011 12:13 Riyomori wrote: for all the moonglade hype i don't think i've ever seen him win a game since the time he went to korea to play in the GSL
Sadly him and Haypro are 2 that I for the most part assume are going to lose. I would love for them to start proving me wrong but aside from that thing at Pax I don't remember seeing either of them win anything . Maybe Haypro will prove me wrong later tonight.
I like Moonglade but man, that last attack was terrible, even for that map. Axslav played good though. Very strong and safe. (Besides letting those few phoenixes die)
On April 30 2011 12:12 FinestHour wrote: What a terrible 1a through a choke wtf?
Most of the map is a choke.
It was still one of those desperation 1a moves that was pretty disgusting to watch. No planning for an engagement or anything like that. Just disappointing to watch thats all
On April 30 2011 12:14 loveeholicce wrote: Game was over when moonglade missed the hydra timing. There was no way he was gonna win after that. Hydras are just horrible. Hard countered by collosus, immobile, and literally can't do anything vs forcefields. Add to that the fact that crossfire is narrow and pretty heavily favors collosus play.
I am not sure he HAD a timing. His hydra ball would of hit axlavs natural when the first colossus was 75%~ done, and while 20 hydra is pretty strong, one colossus + good force field stomps it, even without thermal lance.
On April 30 2011 12:08 Vorlik wrote: I have never seen an impressive game from moonglade unfortunately.
Me neither and I really want to root for the guy because he has that badass aussie appeal.
IEM? He really been slumping lately tho which really sucks.
Here's the thing, pretty much everyone that went there and did well, have did nothing before or after except for Idra. Glade/Ace/squirtle have been overhyped and underpreforming since.
On April 30 2011 12:14 loveeholicce wrote: Game was over when moonglade missed the hydra timing. There was no way he was gonna win after that. Hydras are just horrible. Hard countered by collosus, immobile, and literally can't do anything vs forcefields. Add to that the fact that crossfire is narrow and pretty heavily favors collosus play.
I am not sure he HAD a timing. His hydra ball would of hit axlavs natural when the first colossus was 75%~ done, and while 20 hydra is pretty strong, one colossus + good force field stomps it, even without thermal lance.
Yea, axslav did pretty well to delay that push with the phoenix, but that map is so hard for ZvP i think a pre-collosus timing is the best zerg can try for.
On April 30 2011 11:36 Duoma wrote: Should probably turn down/off the music during interviews.... For that matter I would just rethink the music altogether. Feels very tacked on.
I feel like i'm watching a best buy commercial when a game ends. To be clear, that is not a good thing.
music is fine, fills dead air.
Music, as a concept, is fine. THE music that is being used is not at all fine. Just play Starcraft music or even GSL-style goofy metal. Not this miserable elevator-rock.
Maybe it's just me, but I would rather have dead air than music that makes me feel like i'm in a department store.
The GSL goofy metal is total crap.. and it's just you.
No actually. The GSL music and all goofy/nerdy epic-ness is the perfect soundtrack for a Starcraft tournament. What could be more perfect than two nerds fighting each other in a computer game with high-pitched vocals and guitar solos in the background? (the answer is nothing)
On April 30 2011 11:37 Warrior Madness wrote: Holy shit, Strelok sounds like a bw terran unit but I forget which one. I think it might be the battlecruiser.
On April 30 2011 12:14 loveeholicce wrote: Game was over when moonglade missed the hydra timing. There was no way he was gonna win after that. Hydras are just horrible. Hard countered by collosus, immobile, and literally can't do anything vs forcefields. Add to that the fact that crossfire is narrow and pretty heavily favors collosus play.
I am not sure he HAD a timing. His hydra ball would of hit axlavs natural when the first colossus was 75%~ done, and while 20 hydra is pretty strong, one colossus + good force field stomps it, even without thermal lance.
Yea, axslav did pretty well to delay that push with the phoenix, but that map is so hard for ZvP i think a pre-collosus timing is the best zerg can try for.
I think he should have gone for a Mondragon style attack as soon as he realized there was air, just throw down the spore crawlers and huddle the ovies up so they can't pick anything off, then spam the hell out of roaches and overrun him.
On April 30 2011 11:36 Duoma wrote: Should probably turn down/off the music during interviews.... For that matter I would just rethink the music altogether. Feels very tacked on.
I feel like i'm watching a best buy commercial when a game ends. To be clear, that is not a good thing.
music is fine, fills dead air.
Music, as a concept, is fine. THE music that is being used is not at all fine. Just play Starcraft music or even GSL-style goofy metal. Not this miserable elevator-rock.
Maybe it's just me, but I would rather have dead air than music that makes me feel like i'm in a department store.
The GSL goofy metal is total crap.. and it's just you.
No actually. The GSL music and all goofy/nerdy epic-ness is the perfect soundtrack for a Starcraft tournament. What could be more perfect than two nerds fighting each other in a computer game with high-pitched vocals and guitar solos in the background? (the answer is nothing)
Heh, was watching oGsMC dismantle zergs with the same build last night. When faced with the fast phoenix spam, sniping overlords and drones, in game 2 moonglade probably thought he could grab an opportunity while axslav wasn't looking, but clearly he was. Can't blame the guy for trying to take a chance when he knows the deathball is coming. That p build is being used all over the place in PvZ cause it's //that// good. Haven't seen a great answer to it except for an all-in, cause it delays the quick tech of gateway-cyber-stargate without the protoss having to build any units.
On April 30 2011 12:14 loveeholicce wrote: Game was over when moonglade missed the hydra timing. There was no way he was gonna win after that. Hydras are just horrible. Hard countered by collosus, immobile, and literally can't do anything vs forcefields. Add to that the fact that crossfire is narrow and pretty heavily favors collosus play.
I am not sure he HAD a timing. His hydra ball would of hit axlavs natural when the first colossus was 75%~ done, and while 20 hydra is pretty strong, one colossus + good force field stomps it, even without thermal lance.
Yea, axslav did pretty well to delay that push with the phoenix, but that map is so hard for ZvP i think a pre-collosus timing is the best zerg can try for.
I have only seen the overlord creep hydra timing push 2 times on crossfire, and both failed really badly so far.
I first saw it when Idra used it a lot on CLOSE position maps like lost temple and metalopolis, I have never seen idra attempt it on a huge map like crossfire, he instead goes for hydra drops...
I just dunno if that build even works well on certain maps. I guess moonglade had success with it in practice or he would not have used it though, and he knows more than I do.
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
Does anyone know why terran stopped building turrets in their mineral lines? When a muta ball comes and starts attacking, it's way faster for scv to get there to repair if the turrets is in there.
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
On April 30 2011 12:27 Stratos_speAr wrote: Good Marine split, bad choice to lead with Banelings.
Agreed that was really sloppy. I would love to see kawaiirice throw down more production facilities though he can support so many more rax than what he has right now
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
On April 30 2011 12:32 Mephiztopheles1 wrote: I love "wasteful" zergs who just try to edge an advantage one army trade at a time, but Slush overdoes it so much ;(
On April 30 2011 12:32 Mephiztopheles1 wrote: I love "wasteful" zergs who just try to edge an advantage one army trade at a time, but Slush overdoes it so much ;(
Army trades dont work for zerg if you are even, or behind in econ.
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
On April 30 2011 12:32 Mephiztopheles1 wrote: I love "wasteful" zergs who just try to edge an advantage one army trade at a time, but Slush overdoes it so much ;(
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
What sort of difference are you talking about? I mean, obviously 1 Phoenix will suck and die to 5 Mutalisks - but usually, about 3 Phoenixes per 5 Mutas will be a good victory for the Phoenixes.
I mean, you can't really stop them from kiting you as they have a faster movespeed - and they do more damage - and they have more health.
On April 30 2011 12:31 Jman5 wrote: Is anyone else having issues seeing the difference between Yellow and Orange on the minimap?
Well I'm color blind so I'm having some major issues. I just assume if it's coming from creep it's the zerg and if it's going to the creep it's terran for the most part though . If there wasn't a zerg or if it was 2 zergs I would just not bother looking at the minimap.
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
phonix dont kite they just fly away whilst shooting loling at the mutas
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
They require constant micro to take advangtte you pull back when they try to kite then pull forward. Most of the time you can snipe 1- 3. And again, 2 pheonix = 1 less colossus.
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
They require constant micro to take advangtte you pull back when they try to kite then pull forward. Most of the time you can snipe 1- 3. And again, 2 pheonix = 1 less colossus.
Yeah, but what are your producing that requires Colossi to kill? Hydras? Don't forget, every 2 Hydras = 1 less Muta = fewer Phoenixes = more Colossi.
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
They require constant micro to take advangtte you pull back when they try to kite then pull forward. Most of the time you can snipe 1- 3. And again, 2 pheonix = 1 less colossus.
Yeah, but what are your producing that requires Colossi to kill? Hydras? Don't forget, every 2 Hydras = 1 less Muta = fewer Phoenixes = more Colossi.
Lots and lots of Lings. Most of the gas going to mutas/upgrades.
This is the first time I've managed to to watch the NASL since the opening day, and I've got to say I'm very impressed with the vast improvement made. Inc and Gretorp seem to have really relaxed into their role as casters and are doing a fantastic job imo. Great job guys
I remember back in the day, Mass Roach was the way to go ZvT, why did they stop? Cuz of 2 supply? Pft, Roaches are even better with 4 range and rape Marines :S
On April 30 2011 12:13 ccHaZaRd wrote: crossfire is such a bad map lol
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
They require constant micro to take advangtte you pull back when they try to kite then pull forward. Most of the time you can snipe 1- 3. And again, 2 pheonix = 1 less colossus.
Yeah, but what are your producing that requires Colossi to kill? Hydras? Don't forget, every 2 Hydras = 1 less Muta = fewer Phoenixes = more Colossi.
Lots and lots of Lings. Most of the gas going to mutas/upgrades.
Zealots do fine against lings. So do the early-game sentries you may have left over.
So sad seeing Kawaii go down like that, but you really need to prepare for that sort of thing.
On April 30 2011 12:45 Fahrenheit14 wrote: This is the first time I've managed to to watch the NASL since the opening day, and I've got to say I'm very impressed with the vast improvement made. Inc and Gretorp seem to have really relaxed into their role as casters and are doing a fantastic job imo. Great job guys :-)
Agreed. They're still a bit silly, but I like that
On April 30 2011 12:45 ChaseR wrote: I remember back in the day, Mass Roach was the way to go ZvT, why did they stop? Cuz of 2 supply? Pft, Roaches are even better with 4 range and rape Marines :S
Because at 2 supply the T can match each roach with a Marauder, and Marauders just roll over Roaches while casually chuckling the entire way to the Z's base.
On April 30 2011 12:45 ChaseR wrote: I remember back in the day, Mass Roach was the way to go ZvT, why did they stop? Cuz of 2 supply? Pft, Roaches are even better with 4 range and rape Marines :S
Because at 2 supply the T can match each roach with a Marauder, and Marauders just roll over Roaches while casually chuckling the entire way to the Z's base.
And because stimmed marines tear roaches to shreds. At one supply, the roaches would be in equal numbers to the marines, so they did okay (especially when they had 2 armor), but at 2 supply, marines straight up kill them.
Nah, it's a terrible map for hydra, if he went Mass Mass mutaling harass/counterattacks on the other hand he would of dominated
It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
They require constant micro to take advangtte you pull back when they try to kite then pull forward. Most of the time you can snipe 1- 3. And again, 2 pheonix = 1 less colossus.
Yeah, but what are your producing that requires Colossi to kill? Hydras? Don't forget, every 2 Hydras = 1 less Muta = fewer Phoenixes = more Colossi.
Lots and lots of Lings. Most of the gas going to mutas/upgrades.
Zealots do fine against lings. So do the early-game sentries you may have left over.
So sad seeing Kawaii go down like that, but you really need to prepare for that sort of thing.
I heard Mutalisk do pretty good against zealots. Also depends mostly on upgrades. Also with harass I like to pick off sentries. Fully upgraded lings are beastly against Toss.
On April 30 2011 12:49 openbox1 wrote: notice how terran keeps on getting 4 gated / roach rushed etc on cross-fire?
Yeah, you would really think they would expect it by now. The funny thing is, the stats on NASL show Zerg winning every matchup on crossfire. How ironic...
On April 30 2011 12:22 VoirDire wrote: [quote] It looks like you missed the game. Axslav actually opened phoenix, which off course negates any muta play. If you don't build hydras, you pretty much die. (see game 1 of the series).
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
They require constant micro to take advangtte you pull back when they try to kite then pull forward. Most of the time you can snipe 1- 3. And again, 2 pheonix = 1 less colossus.
Yeah, but what are your producing that requires Colossi to kill? Hydras? Don't forget, every 2 Hydras = 1 less Muta = fewer Phoenixes = more Colossi.
Lots and lots of Lings. Most of the gas going to mutas/upgrades.
Zealots do fine against lings. So do the early-game sentries you may have left over.
So sad seeing Kawaii go down like that, but you really need to prepare for that sort of thing.
I heard Mutalisk do pretty good against zealots. Also depends mostly on upgrades. Also with harass I like to pick off sentries. Fully upgraded lings are beastly against Toss.
Someone tried that against me on ladder early today, with careful positioning I didn't lose any sentries, and I kept sharking as iNcontroL puts it, forcing him to make more and more lings, while I teched up and expanded. Wound up being 5 base toss vs. 4 base zerg after I sniped his third twice, and I wound up walking over him 200 supply to 130ish with an army made of chargelots, blink stalkers, colossi, archons, void rays and carriers, I just had so much money. He just kept throwing money away and never got close to my econ, it didn't seem good. Possible that he was just bad, but the blink stalkers I had shut down his mutas easy.
the thing is if you produce a lot if force the protoss players to either make more Pheonix and less colossus because for every 2 pheonix you force, that is 1 less colossus. And mutas in bigger numbers destroy pheonix.
So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
They require constant micro to take advangtte you pull back when they try to kite then pull forward. Most of the time you can snipe 1- 3. And again, 2 pheonix = 1 less colossus.
Yeah, but what are your producing that requires Colossi to kill? Hydras? Don't forget, every 2 Hydras = 1 less Muta = fewer Phoenixes = more Colossi.
Lots and lots of Lings. Most of the gas going to mutas/upgrades.
Zealots do fine against lings. So do the early-game sentries you may have left over.
So sad seeing Kawaii go down like that, but you really need to prepare for that sort of thing.
I heard Mutalisk do pretty good against zealots. Also depends mostly on upgrades. Also with harass I like to pick off sentries. Fully upgraded lings are beastly against Toss.
Someone tried that against me on ladder early today, with careful positioning I didn't lose any sentries, and I kept sharking as iNcontroL puts it, forcing him to make more and more lings, while I teched up and expanded. Wound up being 5 base toss vs. 4 base zerg after I sniped his third twice, and I wound up walking over him 200 supply to 130ish with an army made of chargelots, blink stalkers, colossi, archons, void rays and carriers, I just had so much money. He just kept throwing money away and never got close to my econ, it didn't seem good. Possible that he was just bad, but the blink stalkers I had shut down his mutas easy.
He sounds really bad. Did he even bother teching to hive or anything? The whole point of the build is to PREVENT you from getting that far XD
On April 30 2011 12:50 Stratos_speAr wrote: Actual macro game coming from Slush and Kawaii, should be exciting.
Well now you just look like a fool.
How so? Everything at that point pointed toward a macro-oriented game. What, am I supposed to predict what Slush is doing based off of an early expansion and two Queens?
On April 30 2011 12:50 Stratos_speAr wrote: Actual macro game coming from Slush and Kawaii, should be exciting.
Well now you just look like a fool.
How so? Everything at that point pointed toward a macro-oriented game. What, am I supposed to predict what Slush is doing based off of an early expansion and two Queens?
On April 30 2011 12:31 VoirDire wrote: [quote] So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
They require constant micro to take advangtte you pull back when they try to kite then pull forward. Most of the time you can snipe 1- 3. And again, 2 pheonix = 1 less colossus.
Yeah, but what are your producing that requires Colossi to kill? Hydras? Don't forget, every 2 Hydras = 1 less Muta = fewer Phoenixes = more Colossi.
Lots and lots of Lings. Most of the gas going to mutas/upgrades.
Zealots do fine against lings. So do the early-game sentries you may have left over.
So sad seeing Kawaii go down like that, but you really need to prepare for that sort of thing.
I heard Mutalisk do pretty good against zealots. Also depends mostly on upgrades. Also with harass I like to pick off sentries. Fully upgraded lings are beastly against Toss.
Someone tried that against me on ladder early today, with careful positioning I didn't lose any sentries, and I kept sharking as iNcontroL puts it, forcing him to make more and more lings, while I teched up and expanded. Wound up being 5 base toss vs. 4 base zerg after I sniped his third twice, and I wound up walking over him 200 supply to 130ish with an army made of chargelots, blink stalkers, colossi, archons, void rays and carriers, I just had so much money. He just kept throwing money away and never got close to my econ, it didn't seem good. Possible that he was just bad, but the blink stalkers I had shut down his mutas easy.
He sounds really bad. Did he even bother teching to hive or anything? The whole point of the build is to PREVENT you from getting that far XD
How about you show us a replay where a Z successfully counters a phoenix opening with mutas (in another thread!). Let's end this pointless discussion.
6 pool ISN'T a good idea against Forge Expand, even if you DO get into the base. Protoss have two typical builds on that map - Forge Expand OR Nexus First. If you Nexus first you auto-lose vs. 6 pool but Forge Expand is quite safe against it, since the Forge will finish and one cannon in the mineral easily defends the lings.
On April 30 2011 13:03 Truefire wrote: Haypro anti-vote never fails
Sad but true. Not sure why... a lot of top level players praise his play, but I've only seen 1-2 good games from him in a year.
I wish we could see what those who knows him better do. Not sure if it's nerves or something else, but he never impresses me compared to other top players.
This is like watching a game of... any sport. And seeing a player lying on the ground with a broken leg dangling around waiting for the medicab to come take the poor guy off the field.
So sad.
I don't rate Squirtle at all either, so i think Haypro should've at least tried a straight up game. This isn't exactly MC or Alicia.
wow...haypro should not have made the extra lings, started spamming drones and expanded while actually targeting probes or important buildings hell i would have understood the forge to be targeted to stop extra cannons from going down...but the pylon !?!?!?!?
On April 30 2011 12:31 VoirDire wrote: [quote] So mutas destroy phoenix in large numbers? ...ok. I'm not going to continue this discussion.
Actually yes if you don't let them kite you. But keep yourself closed minded.
Not much you can do about it if the protoss has good micro, phoenix are faster and outrange the mutas, so in a straight up fight mutas do okay, if the protoss micros, it doesn't matter how many mutas you have.
They require constant micro to take advangtte you pull back when they try to kite then pull forward. Most of the time you can snipe 1- 3. And again, 2 pheonix = 1 less colossus.
Yeah, but what are your producing that requires Colossi to kill? Hydras? Don't forget, every 2 Hydras = 1 less Muta = fewer Phoenixes = more Colossi.
Lots and lots of Lings. Most of the gas going to mutas/upgrades.
Zealots do fine against lings. So do the early-game sentries you may have left over.
So sad seeing Kawaii go down like that, but you really need to prepare for that sort of thing.
I heard Mutalisk do pretty good against zealots. Also depends mostly on upgrades. Also with harass I like to pick off sentries. Fully upgraded lings are beastly against Toss.
Someone tried that against me on ladder early today, with careful positioning I didn't lose any sentries, and I kept sharking as iNcontroL puts it, forcing him to make more and more lings, while I teched up and expanded. Wound up being 5 base toss vs. 4 base zerg after I sniped his third twice, and I wound up walking over him 200 supply to 130ish with an army made of chargelots, blink stalkers, colossi, archons, void rays and carriers, I just had so much money. He just kept throwing money away and never got close to my econ, it didn't seem good. Possible that he was just bad, but the blink stalkers I had shut down his mutas easy.
He sounds really bad. Did he even bother teching to hive or anything? The whole point of the build is to PREVENT you from getting that far XD
Well, it's possible he was just bad, but it's not hard to punish the zerg for going for your sentries early on with good forcefield placement and positioning, and I baited him into going for it. He went fast double evo chamber and had better upgrades than I did for most of the game, but I kept baiting units by posturing fake attacks, and he never got a decent economy up, especially due to the dark templars later on. His mutas just didn't do any damage, my blink stalkers shut it down, and he saw my double stargate which I got for void rays in the mid game, and stopped making them.
I'm sad to see this for Haypro - I really can't tell why he decided to 6 pool in game 1. I'd assume you want to cheese on a smaller/tougher map, like Crossfire (still can't work out why tournaments like that map, it seems horrifically P or T favoured).
On April 30 2011 13:09 Aequos wrote: I'm sad to see this for Haypro - I really can't tell why he decided to 6 pool in game 1. I'd assume you want to cheese on a smaller/tougher map, like Crossfire (still can't work out why tournaments like that map, it seems horrifically P or T favoured).
6 pool is fine on this map since everybody goes nexus first, the problem is how badly he executed this 6pool, I'm disappoint
I know everyone doesn't see this often, but carriers actually straight up destroy everything zerg can build. The only way to really beat carriers as zerg is straight up mass corrupter, and you need 3 corrupters per carrier in order to do it, 4 if the carriers have more upgrades than you do. I'd love to see squirtle build them.
I hate to say it ..... but TL would be a super-team if not for Haypro.... he just doesn't seem to be able to perform well.... and it makes TL look bad.
On April 30 2011 13:09 Aequos wrote: I'm sad to see this for Haypro - I really can't tell why he decided to 6 pool in game 1. I'd assume you want to cheese on a smaller/tougher map, like Crossfire (still can't work out why tournaments like that map, it seems horrifically P or T favoured).
6 pool is fine on this map since everybody goes nexus first, the problem is how badly he executed this 6pool, I'm disappoint
Ah, fair enough. I guess that would have worked then.
On April 30 2011 13:11 dsousa wrote: I hate to say it ..... but TL would be a super-team if not for Haypro.... he just doesn't seem to be able to perform well.... and it makes TL look bad.
in defense of haypro, other team members aren't performing much better atm
On April 30 2011 13:11 dsousa wrote: I hate to say it ..... but TL would be a super-team if not for Haypro.... he just doesn't seem to be able to perform well.... and it makes TL look bad.
HayprO is a practice beast, but even if quieter, his mindset seems to be even worse than idra's. As HuK said, haypro owns everybody in practice (his pax east wins show that) but chokes or enters a negative mindset in some competitions.
I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
Obviously Haypro will gouge out that stupid Windows key on his keyboard after that game - that is the only way I can explain how badly all those fights went for him.
Edit: Dammit, a couple seconds too late on the joke.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
On April 30 2011 13:11 dsousa wrote: I hate to say it ..... but TL would be a super-team if not for Haypro.... he just doesn't seem to be able to perform well.... and it makes TL look bad.
Yea you know, with Jinro and HuK out in the first round of GSL, and every other Liquid player producing 0 results lately, Haypro's the one dragging them down from being "a super team"
On April 30 2011 13:14 pm_squad wrote: My Gold level Zerg is way superior to what I saw Haypro do just now...
No it isn't. Lets not beat around the bush. Haypro failed, but no Gold level Zerg would have been in half as good as a position he was in after that amount of time
On April 30 2011 13:12 Scabou wrote: One of the worst PROFESSIONAL games i've ever seen.
I have to agree. That game was just... bad. It wasn't like watching a game where somebody just makes a mistake, but it just felt like it wasn't competitive b/c one person wasn't trying. Didn't feel right at all.
I will remember this as the worst play of the NASL... seriously I can't imagine worse play to ever be seen in this league again.
It wasn't just a bad all in that was embarrassing and lead to a quick loss... that was bad the whole way through.
I'm really not trying to flame the guy... but this just reaffirms the fact that I feel he is overrated in my eyes (though he is not as bad as he played there... that's for sure).
Edit: He fungaled during all of that, so I doubt he minimized.
On April 30 2011 13:14 pm_squad wrote: My Gold level Zerg is way superior to what I saw Haypro do just now...
No it isn't. Lets not beat around the bush. Haypro failed, but no Gold level Zerg would have been in half as good as a position he was in after that amount of time
Idk, I'm gold, and I know that when I 6 pool I am supposed to attack probes and not a pylon and a gateway.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
or maybe he's just bad Seriously I've never seen him win a series in a tournament
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
come on dude, Haypro has been in Korea for more than half a year. How could he not adapt ? hes just terribad. this game is not even funny
On April 30 2011 13:11 dsousa wrote: I hate to say it ..... but TL would be a super-team if not for Haypro.... he just doesn't seem to be able to perform well.... and it makes TL look bad.
Yea you know, with Jinro and HuK out in the first round of GSL, and every other Liquid player producing 0 results lately, Haypro's the one dragging them down from being "a super team"
Lay off him, and stop being so stupid.
Hey Ret won over MC and Tyler beat Drewbie, so it's not like very liquid player is slumping. The game is somewhat volatile so it's hard to keep winning all the time.
one of the most one sided games i've seen in sc2. could have done a lot more with that 6 pool . all he did was force a cancel on nexus and kill a forge lol. hopefully he shows more of his skill this game.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
But why does he think Haypro is less affected by the time than Squirtle?
On April 30 2011 13:11 dsousa wrote: I hate to say it ..... but TL would be a super-team if not for Haypro.... he just doesn't seem to be able to perform well.... and it makes TL look bad.
Yea you know, with Jinro and HuK out in the first round of GSL, and every other Liquid player producing 0 results lately, Haypro's the one dragging them down from being "a super team"
Lay off him, and stop being so stupid.
0 results is not the same as losing embarrassingly .... repeatedly.... honestly even the other TL member poor results are better than any results Haypro has shown. Which player on TL could you argue that he's better than?
but i'll give him another shot.... game 2.... i have hope :D
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Squirtle lives there too though and it's not like he's exactly a world traveler. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Haypro overslept and some janitor had to play that game for him instead.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I was basically quoting Jinro's words when he told everyone why he didn't play in the NASL.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
Just use the Losira build if you want to be agressive, at least it works a good % of the time. I've never seen a 6 pool works since I watch tournaments.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
or maybe he's just bad Seriously I've never seen him win a series in a tournament
I guess you didn't see those tournaments he won during Brood War then. Dreamhack I believe?
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
I really wanted Haypro to do well. In fact, I was positively biased towards him given how terrible he has been every single time I watched him.
Whether it's Protoss or not, this is no excuse (remember their "This is Protoss!" antics on here?).
Watching this, I can only say that I hope play SC2 is not his career choice. He should switch to something else ASAP. He doesn't seem a teenager, and if you have been bad up until here with no talent visible, it's time to admit and move on.
I agree with someone's sentiment before. I think he was kinda facepalming all game, I don't think it was because the forge went up, but that he didn't get the pylon in time. He mistimed it, and realized it a second too late, which was one second to late to kinda lose the game.
On April 30 2011 13:11 dsousa wrote: I hate to say it ..... but TL would be a super-team if not for Haypro.... he just doesn't seem to be able to perform well.... and it makes TL look bad.
Yea you know, with Jinro and HuK out in the first round of GSL, and every other Liquid player producing 0 results lately, Haypro's the one dragging them down from being "a super team"
Lay off him, and stop being so stupid.
Hey Ret won over MC and Tyler beat Drewbie, so it's not like very liquid player is slumping. The game is somewhat volatile so it's hard to keep winning all the time.
Ret lucked wins off MC. Great for him, I love the guy, but its not indicative of any improvement in his play. copenhagen games he got knocked out in the group stage by players whose names ive never even heard of.
Tyler beat drewbie but again 1 series is hardly indicative of not slumping. He got 2-0ed by mana (who's good, granted), bad mlg preformance, eliminated in TSL, etc. Hasn't achieved anything recently.
I really hope liquid can step up I have no idea why they're so bad lately. Was and still am a big fan of ret since the brood war days
It's my second time watching NASL but these casters are kind of meh.. is it just me? Not much in-game analysis or potential/possible strategies discussions but simply reading what's happening then say "oh that's a wrong decision" "oh that's right decision" or other chit-chats.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
For serious?
If so...
-_-
NORTH AMERICAN Starleague, all of these players knew this before it started.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
If NASL forces them to play during the later hours then that is just stupid.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
For serious?
If so...
-_-
To be fair, it is the North American Star League, so it makes sense to have the games played during that time - and it doesn't really favour either player if they both play in Korea (as in, both are up at some awkward hour).
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
For serious?
If so...
-_-
The commentators and production team need to be awake and ready to work for the whole day. Of course they'd have the NASL on NA time.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
For serious?
If so...
-_-
NORTH AMERICAN Starleague, all of these players knew this before it started.
exactly, not like they're going to chop live recording up to deal with multiple timezones
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
If NASL forces them to play during the later hours then that is just stupid.
Why? Their entire production staff is in America and they record the matches live. The point is that it's NA based.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
If NASL forces them to play during the later hours then that is just stupid.
I agree. The commentators and everyone working on the production should go to work 12 hours earlier just for them, even though they agreed to play at those times when they signed up since it is a NA league. Can you tell if I'm being sarcastic or not?
As for the match itself... I can't say I'm surprised.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
You do realize that 5 games are played a day. But of course you assume that their specific game is played at a specific hour, because this is the internet. Also, that wasn't the basis he was talking about. Haypro has lived in Korea long enough to have an adjusted sleep schedule.
On April 30 2011 13:24 nvs. wrote: Blah, the only really awesome part of today was the TvT. The rest was forgettable.
Don't say that, it was fun watching AXSLAV, DESTROYER OF WORLDS, RULER OF THE UNIVERSE, CREATOR OF ALL THAT LIVES, GRANTER OF WISHES AND DREAMS, MASTER OF EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD!
Who cares what hour they play, they are both in Korea playing at the same time. Don't make stupid excuses like "Waaah he had to play at 4am and that's why he fell asleep on his keyboard and screwed up a 6 pool." Get real. Haypro got demolished by a FAR better player. What time they played has nothing to do with it. Haypro is simply not as good as Squirtle, period.
On April 30 2011 13:23 On_Slaught wrote: Sentry/Zealot push at 9min ends the game in convincing fashion.
GG, 2-0 Squirtle.
Sigh.
Delayed korean 4gate?
Sorry, was in the bathroom and when I came back, all I saw was the gg
I kept tabbing back and forth to a diff forum but I think it was a expo-cancel 4gate like we see a lot. If this is wrong i'm sure somebody will correct me.
Haypro had ABSOLUTELY no Overlords even close to Squirtle's base. The only one not in his base was in the top left corner serving no purpose. Small things like that = -____-
On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote: lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
wtf are you talking about... all zergs have trouble with the 4 gate.. CANCEL expand. so please respect
I figure a "pro" player like haypro can scout that from a mile away. Very poor play.
Actually IdrA had a really though time facing this build vs Socke, I think in MLG or NASL don't remember, just some event I remember that IdrA had a total pain in the ass.
On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote: lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
wtf are you talking about... all zergs have trouble with the 4 gate.. CANCEL expand. so please respect
I figure a "pro" player like haypro can scout that from a mile away. Very poor play.
really shows how poor ur play is. because again. all zergs have trouble with that attack. pro or otherwise..
He should have been able to read Squirtle much better than that, expanding without a forge on Crossfire is suicide, Squirtle doesn't 3gate expand without a forge, he saw more units than a regular 3gate expand should have at the time. It is tough, no doubt, but it wasn't as if Haypro was in the dark
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
or maybe he's just bad Seriously I've never seen him win a series in a tournament
I guess you didn't see those tournaments he won during Brood War then. Dreamhack I believe?
Broodwar is a different game. Haypro's results for SC2 have undoubtedly been the weakest of all the TL members. Maybe he's a good player, maybe not, but he sure never delivers results when it counts.
On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote: lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
wtf are you talking about... all zergs have trouble with the 4 gate.. CANCEL expand. so please respect
I figure a "pro" player like haypro can scout that from a mile away. Very poor play.
really shows how poor ur play is. because again. all zergs have trouble with that attack. pro or otherwise..
that build is evil. as a protoss i can see why it is difficult for zergs to deal with. if you don't get an ovie in the base, you can either respond to a 3 gate expand and drone or prepare for a 4 gate. if you guess wrong you are behind/dead. it's just a dirty build. (successful nonetheless)
TL is the best and most prestigious team in the world. Someone else should get Haypro's spot in Korea and on TL.. its a huge opportunity.
I recently read an MC interview where he said Haypro hasn't been practicing much.... so that, coupled with his results really lead me to wish that some other up and comming pro would get the opportunities that Haypro is getting.
Because based on his results, he wouldn't be in NASL or any of the tournements he's in.... he get access because he is part of TL.
On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote: lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
wtf are you talking about... all zergs have trouble with the 4 gate.. CANCEL expand. so please respect
I figure a "pro" player like haypro can scout that from a mile away. Very poor play.
the POINT of it is to make it harder to scout, if you were a zerg player who saw 2gates 2 sentries and A stalker then a nexus at 98/9% completion then what the hell would your read be?
as a protoss player, i would assume 3gate expand at that point in the zergs shoes had i not seen the 4th gate >.< (though i personally prefer not cancelling the nexus lol (it weakens it slightly, so i just get a few more sentries aka ff)
On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote: lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
wtf are you talking about... all zergs have trouble with the 4 gate.. CANCEL expand. so please respect
I figure a "pro" player like haypro can scout that from a mile away. Very poor play.
really shows how poor ur play is. because again. all zergs have trouble with that attack. pro or otherwise..
He should have been able to read Squirtle much better than that, expanding without a forge on Crossfire is suicide, Squirtle doesn't 3gate expand without a forge, he saw more units than a regular 3gate expand should have at the time. It is tough, no doubt, but it wasn't as if Haypro was in the dark
3 gate expand generally puts the forge down after the nexus completes, so that wasn't scoutable. Zergs just need to have an overlord to sacrifice after the nexus finishes to see if it's still there.
I'm not even sure haypro scouted the nexus, did he ? Anyway this build is very hard to stop, as soon as we saw the drones in production when squirtle left his base this was over. 3 queens but no transfuse on the spine too.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
If NASL forces them to play during the later hours then that is just stupid.
I agree. The commentators and everyone working on the production should go to work 12 hours earlier just for them, even though they agreed to play at those times when they signed up since it is a NA league. Can you tell if I'm being sarcastic or not?
As for the match itself... I can't say I'm surprised.
From what I understand all games are played the same day. Why is it so unreasonable for a match of two players playing during later times to be casted first? I won't pretend to know the entire schedule of NASL production but I would at least expect a little bit of accommodation.
On April 30 2011 13:31 MrCon wrote: I'm not even sure haypro scouted the nexus, did he ? Anyway this build is very hard to stop, as soon as we saw the drones in production when squirtle left his base this was over. 3 queens but no transfuse on the spine too.
He did, he had a zergling run in to see it, and it died about 3 seconds before the nexus was canceled (just before it would have finished). He most likely assumed that it was going to finish, especially since he saw a ton of sentries. It looked exactly like a 3 gate expand, he just got tricked.
On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote: lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
wtf are you talking about... all zergs have trouble with the 4 gate.. CANCEL expand. so please respect
I figure a "pro" player like haypro can scout that from a mile away. Very poor play.
really shows how poor ur play is. because again. all zergs have trouble with that attack. pro or otherwise..
He should have been able to read Squirtle much better than that, expanding without a forge on Crossfire is suicide, Squirtle doesn't 3gate expand without a forge, he saw more units than a regular 3gate expand should have at the time. It is tough, no doubt, but it wasn't as if Haypro was in the dark
3 gate expand generally puts the forge down after the nexus completes, so that wasn't scoutable. Zergs just need to have an overlord to sacrifice after the nexus finishes to see if it's still there.
Maybe it is just me, but I put the forge down before the Nexus is down, when your warping in Sentries you get a mineral build up, unless your boosting 4 Gateways like Squirtle was, it isn't really possible to spend that.
IdrA did have trouble with it. He lost practically the same way vs. Socke. But IdrA has evolved. His play got better. And he defeated Socke in Game 3 doing the same thing with an all-in roach build and hasn't looked back since.
Haypro... I don't know. Maybe some Liquid member can explain but it seems his play has just been getting worse and worse.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
What is your basis for thinking this? o_O
I think he made his basis quite clear in the post, Haypro lives in Korea and has to play the games at 4AM.
Except Squirtle is Korean so Haypro can play at more comfortable hours.
You'd think that but nope. NASL has them play live at NA hours.
If NASL forces them to play during the later hours then that is just stupid.
I agree. The commentators and everyone working on the production should go to work 12 hours earlier just for them, even though they agreed to play at those times when they signed up since it is a NA league. Can you tell if I'm being sarcastic or not?
As for the match itself... I can't say I'm surprised.
From what I understand all games are played the same day. Why is it so unreasonable for a match of two players playing during later times to be broadcasted first? I won't pretend to know the entire schedule of NASL production but I would at least expect a little bit of accommodation.
that's a more reasonable response, and a pretty good idea. i would assume this would be possible, but would make it difficult if they edited the match to later in the cast because of commentary. i guess for it to run as smoothly as possible with this strategy would be to have similar time zone matchups just play first.
I've actually never seen Haypro win a single series is any tournament. All the love for him must be carry over from Brood War. I've heard he did well in a team league and an in-house liquid tournament?
On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote: lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
seeing an expansion and pure sentries = you have to pump mass drones in order to be even in economy... unless you scout the 4gate or are all-inning its probably impossible to stop since you devote so much larva to drones... Getting the scout of all the gates is hard, and rarely do toss players actually cancle...
You make it sound like such a stupid noob mistake by haypro to lose to that. The 4gate fake expo is extremely tough to scout, and they cancel nexus at 99% completion, which is so much time the zerg commits to making drones if you want to be even or above in economy with the protoss. Even regular 4gates give alot of top zergs alot of trouble, this one is even stronger. If haypro blindly makes units he will lose the 99% of the games where the protoss doesnt go fake expo, and a well simcitied 3gate expand with alot of sentries and well placed forcefields can usually fend off roach all-ins fairly well. Distances are pretty far on crossfire as well, making the roach/ling allin vs 3gate even weaker
I'm not saying this is imbalanced, I'm only saying that it is a really strong cheese build and you guys are talking down on haypro like hes some silly noob for losing to a fake nexus 4gate... Now the first game I agree haypro played pretty nooby with his 6pool but like gretorp/inc said, he never practices it so obviously he doesnt execute it 100% correctly.
On April 30 2011 13:31 MrCon wrote: I'm not even sure haypro scouted the nexus, did he ? Anyway this build is very hard to stop, as soon as we saw the drones in production when squirtle left his base this was over. 3 queens but no transfuse on the spine too.
It was pretty funny, Haypro scouted it at like 95%. I thought that it was going to be a hilarious fake-expo where the nexus doesn't even get scouted.
Every single zerg diamond level and above constantly runs lings in and out to check exact expo timings and unit counts. It's hard to believe a professional didn't scout the expansion area for almost the entire nexus build time.
On April 30 2011 13:33 MrSexington wrote: I've actually never seen Haypro win a single series is any tournament. All the love for him must be carry over from Brood War. I've heard he did well in a team league and an in-house liquid tournament?
Haypro just recently made a beastly run through the open bracket at MLG dallas.
I'm just disappointed about the 6 pool on Terminus in general. It's the very definition of a coin-flip build. If the opponent forge expands you're toast. If they nexus first you (probably) win. For Haypro to do this he's basically giving himself a vote of no confidence. It's like IdrA 6 pooling in the second game against MC in Dreamhack. That, at least, was IdrA giving up after a long macro game, whereas this game Haypro didn't even try a macro game on the best map for it.
I suppose the reasonable explanation is that Haypro thinks he's out of practice in ZvP and can't win a game straight-up against Squirtle. But that's what disappoints me.
On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote: lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
seeing an expansion and pure sentries = you have to pump mass drones in order to be even in economy... unless you scout the 4gate or are all-inning its probably impossible to stop since you devote so much larva to drones... Getting the scout of all the gates is hard, and rarely do toss players actually cancle...
You make it sound like such a stupid noob mistake by haypro to lose to that. The 4gate fake expo is extremely tough to scout, and they cancel nexus at 99% completion, which is so much time the zerg commits to making drones if you want to be even or above in economy with the protoss. Even regular 4gates give alot of top zergs alot of trouble, this one is even stronger. If haypro blindly makes units he will lose the 99% of the games where the protoss doesnt go fake expo, and a well simcitied 3gate expand with alot of sentries and well placed forcefields can usually fend off roach all-ins fairly well. Distances are pretty far on crossfire as well, making the roach/ling allin vs 3gate even weaker
I'm not saying this is imbalanced, I'm only saying that it is a really strong cheese build and you guys are talking down on haypro like hes some silly noob for losing to a fake nexus 4gate... Now the first game I agree haypro played pretty nooby with his 6pool but like gretorp/inc said, he never practices it so obviously he doesnt execute it 100% correctly.
The problem was that most zergs see the expo and automatically think "build drones" when in reality, it's a good cue to do some roach/ling pressure. If you've watched idrA's stream recently you'll see that idrA does roach/ling pressure most every game vs a fairly fast expanding Protoss. It really seems like the only way right now to counter the Nexus cancel build. Generally when a Protoss is trying to expand on just 3 gateways they don't have enough units to fend off roach/ling pressure (can defend ramp, but not expo).
Honestly, I have no idea what's going on with Haypro. I think he's really good, but he's been slumping HARD lately. He hasn't shown very good results overall, but every time he enters a tournament I think "this will be the tournament haypro dominates!" but he never does. He's a great guy but Idk if he has what it takes to be a progamer. Just look at his ladder rank: http://sc2ranks.com/kr/2238284/LiquidHayprO he has a below 50% win ratio and he's not even in grandmasters. I feel so bad for the guy, because we all know he is really nice and also really good, but Idk what to say to defend him. He just doesn't perform. <3 you haypro, i hope you do better soon bud.
On April 30 2011 13:40 Lumbridge wrote: Honestly, I have no idea what's going on with Haypro. I think he's really good, but he's been slumping HARD lately. He hasn't shown very good results overall, but every time he enters a tournament I think "this will be the tournament haypro dominates!" but he never does. He's a great guy but Idk if he has what it takes to be a progamer. Just look at his ladder rank: http://sc2ranks.com/kr/2238284/LiquidHayprO he has a below 50% win ratio and he's not even in grandmasters. I feel so bad for the guy, because we all know he is really nice and also really good, but Idk what to say to defend him. He just doesn't perform. <3 you haypro, i hope you do better soon bud.
Didn't MC say he was playing less?
But yeah, I feel like a lot of pros hyped up Haypro but he never ever really performed.
Does anyone else feel like TL needs to make some changes to their lineup? At which point does a team decide to give the second chance speech. Because I really think that TL needs to shake up their roster a bit. They've admitted to underperforming and its been like this for about half a year now. How much longer will they keep the same roster?
On April 30 2011 13:40 Lumbridge wrote: Honestly, I have no idea what's going on with Haypro. I think he's really good, but he's been slumping HARD lately. He hasn't shown very good results overall, but every time he enters a tournament I think "this will be the tournament haypro dominates!" but he never does. He's a great guy but Idk if he has what it takes to be a progamer. Just look at his ladder rank: http://sc2ranks.com/kr/2238284/LiquidHayprO he has a below 50% win ratio and he's not even in grandmasters. I feel so bad for the guy, because we all know he is really nice and also really good, but Idk what to say to defend him. He just doesn't perform. <3 you haypro, i hope you do better soon bud.
Didn't MC say he was playing less?
But yeah, I feel like a lot of pros hyped up Haypro but he never ever really performed.
I thought it was Ret that was the one that practiced the least? Not sure, I could be wrong.
On April 30 2011 13:23 beblunt wrote: lol the 9 minute 4 gate expand......
still beats haypro
thats too bad
seeing an expansion and pure sentries = you have to pump mass drones in order to be even in economy... unless you scout the 4gate or are all-inning its probably impossible to stop since you devote so much larva to drones... Getting the scout of all the gates is hard, and rarely do toss players actually cancle...
You make it sound like such a stupid noob mistake by haypro to lose to that. The 4gate fake expo is extremely tough to scout, and they cancel nexus at 99% completion, which is so much time the zerg commits to making drones if you want to be even or above in economy with the protoss. Even regular 4gates give alot of top zergs alot of trouble, this one is even stronger. If haypro blindly makes units he will lose the 99% of the games where the protoss doesnt go fake expo, and a well simcitied 3gate expand with alot of sentries and well placed forcefields can usually fend off roach all-ins fairly well. Distances are pretty far on crossfire as well, making the roach/ling allin vs 3gate even weaker
I'm not saying this is imbalanced, I'm only saying that it is a really strong cheese build and you guys are talking down on haypro like hes some silly noob for losing to a fake nexus 4gate... Now the first game I agree haypro played pretty nooby with his 6pool but like gretorp/inc said, he never practices it so obviously he doesnt execute it 100% correctly.
These days, if you aren't dropping your forge as your Nexus is going down then you lose to Roach/Ling all-ins on maps with wide naturals, it should be telling when someone like Squirtle always does a 3gate expand with a forge chooses to not go one.
The build is difficult to stop, yes, but given how Squirtle played it out, Haypro had enough information to make a good judgement call on what Squirtle was going to do.
Not sure how good Haypro is at reading Protoss builds via Units, but in PvP, it isn't difficult to pinpoint builds by catching glimpses of the other sides unit composition, the gas and mineral distribution tend to be somewhat obvious.
Squirtle was not hiding his units either like MC did, he had them in plain sight and from the amount of mineral heavy units he had, it is quite obvious that there were no plans to drop the forge anytime soon---you have to assume a few things, if he goes through with the expansion then he is playing risky, there is no chance he can stop any Roach/Ling all-ins.
I think this goes back to what MorroW said in Losira vs Alicia thread, if Zerg Roach/Ling all-in more, they can force a standard for 3gate expand from Protoss, such that reading it is fairly easy, but as it is now, Protoss cut corners and the Zerg allow them so we have reached a point where the greediness is considered standard. But yeah, I just want to stress, a Roach/Ling all-in would have rolled Squirtle, you need that Forge up faster, certainly before the Nexus is complete
On April 30 2011 13:43 Cartel wrote: Does anyone else feel like TL needs to make some changes to their lineup? At which point does a team decide to give the second chance speech. Because I really think that TL needs to shake up their roster a bit. They've admitted to underperforming and its been like this for about half a year now. How much longer will they keep the same roster?
I think you're missing the point of TL team. They're all family. They've known each other for a very long time, and have consistently been giving great results. They've been community members and continue to do so. Representing tl isn't just being good(which they already are). They're still known as one of the best teams, and even if they're not showing results, every top player knows they're really strong. they won't change their roster.
I think you're missing the point of TL team. They're all family. They've known each other for a very long time, and have consistently been giving great results. They've been community members and continue to do so. Representing tl isn't just being good(which they already are). They're still known as one of the best teams, and even if they're not showing results, every top player knows they're really strong. they won't change their roster.
They don't need to change their roster but certainly could do something like bring Haypro back home and support a different player in Korea, either a new one or an existing one not there right now. I know we shouldn't put so much emphasis on one bad series but the showing Haypro gave us tonight, especially in game one, could give one the impression he is out of practice.
I think you're missing the point of TL team. They're all family. They've known each other for a very long time, and have consistently been giving great results. They've been community members and continue to do so. Representing tl isn't just being good(which they already are). They're still known as one of the best teams, and even if they're not showing results, every top player knows they're really strong. they won't change their roster.
They don't need to change their roster but certainly could do something like bring Haypro back home and support a different player in Korea, either a new one or an existing one not there right now. I know we shouldn't put so much emphasis on one bad series but the showing Haypro gave us tonight, especially in game one, could give one the impression he is out of practice.
Harsh. All the people who want to be in Korea are in Korea for TL. The people who have left Korea made that decision by themselves.
Adding people to Liquid just for the sake of getting more players in Korea seems dumb, especially when the scene in the west is blowing up.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
or maybe he's just bad Seriously I've never seen him win a series in a tournament
Not only is this a useless fucking post, it's just plain wrong. I don't think i'll ever understand this kind of senseless hate against players.
The sense I get, both from his recent play and from other player's statements, is that Haypro is in bit of a mental slump. I can imagine being knocked from code A would be extremely disheartening. The korean sc2 scene is so unforgiving right now.
On April 30 2011 13:13 DeltruS wrote: I think it is of note that these games were played at like 4 AM Korean time. Haypro might not be able to adapt to the erratic sleep style like other Korean players.
or maybe he's just bad Seriously I've never seen him win a series in a tournament
Not only is this a useless fucking post, it's just plain wrong. I don't think i'll ever understand this kind of senseless hate against players.
The sense I get, both from his recent play and from other player's statements, is that Haypro is in bit of a mental slump. I can imagine being knocked from code A would be extremely disheartening. The korean sc2 scene is so unforgiving right now.
I get that Haypro (as well as any other player) has their slumps every once and a while, but lets be honest: asides from the PAX TL event, Haypro just hasn't won or placed very high in anything much.
He shows better games on his stream then in any tournaments.
I think you're missing the point of TL team. They're all family. They've known each other for a very long time, and have consistently been giving great results. They've been community members and continue to do so. Representing tl isn't just being good(which they already are). They're still known as one of the best teams, and even if they're not showing results, every top player knows they're really strong. they won't change their roster.
They don't need to change their roster but certainly could do something like bring Haypro back home and support a different player in Korea, either a new one or an existing one not there right now. I know we shouldn't put so much emphasis on one bad series but the showing Haypro gave us tonight, especially in game one, could give one the impression he is out of practice.
Harsh. All the people who want to be in Korea are in Korea for TL. The people who have left Korea made that decision by themselves.
Adding people to Liquid just for the sake of getting more players in Korea seems dumb, especially when the scene in the west is blowing up.
He said bring a different teamliquid member to korea. Not a new one.
He said bring a different teamliquid member to korea. Not a new one.
Well I did say a new one or an existing one. I mean the draw of Korea is the practice you get there (especially being partner with OGS), if TL feels someone is not making full use of that they should take action.
Well even if they are like a family they are still all sponsored players that should obtain an overaverage salary by proplayers standards and TL-TLAF invests also large amounts of money for travelling expenses etc. But if you hardly train anyways even though you are not doing good for ages then what`s the justification for getting the money? I mean of course players like Huk, TLO or even Jinro are performing not as good as they could but they all seem to work hard on getting better. In contrast to that Haypro seems to get worse.
On April 30 2011 13:40 Lumbridge wrote: Honestly, I have no idea what's going on with Haypro. I think he's really good, but he's been slumping HARD lately. He hasn't shown very good results overall, but every time he enters a tournament I think "this will be the tournament haypro dominates!" but he never does. He's a great guy but Idk if he has what it takes to be a progamer. Just look at his ladder rank: http://sc2ranks.com/kr/2238284/LiquidHayprO he has a below 50% win ratio and he's not even in grandmasters. I feel so bad for the guy, because we all know he is really nice and also really good, but Idk what to say to defend him. He just doesn't perform. <3 you haypro, i hope you do better soon bud.
you do know hes below 50% because he offraces a lot on his main account right? not because hes bad?
On April 30 2011 16:16 Irrational_Animal wrote: Well even if they are like a family they are still all sponsored players that should obtain an overaverage salary by proplayers standards and TL-TLAF invests also large amounts of money for travelling expenses etc. But if you hardly train anyways even though you are not doing good for ages then what`s the justification for getting the money? I mean of course players like Huk, TLO or even Jinro are performing not as good as they could but they all seem to work hard on getting better. In contrast to that Haypro seems to get worse.
HAHAHAHAHA your entire opinion is meaningless if you are seriously trying to say jinro is not performing as good as he could. He has shown amazing results in korea and foreign tournaments, he practices hard, and every time he loses you can see how upset he is.
you do know hes below 50% because he offraces a lot on his main account right? not because hes bad?
That seems like it would be a terrible idea for a pro since for ladder practice you would think they want to play the best players possible, dropping your MMR by off-racing is not going to do that.
HAHAHAHAHA your entire opinion is meaningless if you are seriously trying to say jinro is not performing as good as he could. He has shown amazing results in korea and foreign tournaments, he practices hard, and every time he loses you can see how upset he is.
Jinro is performing fine he lost 2 games to the best zerg in the world causing his early exit from Code S this season. I am sure he wants to do better but this is not even comparable to Haypro so I agree.
On April 30 2011 13:19 MrCon wrote: Just use the Losira build if you want to be agressive, at least it works a good % of the time. I've never seen a 6 pool works since I watch tournaments.
you do know hes below 50% because he offraces a lot on his main account right? not because hes bad?
That seems like it would be a terrible idea for a pro since for ladder practice you would think they want to play the best players possible, dropping your MMR by off-racing is not going to do that.
You realize he's ranked high enough that he actually plays the very top guy right? I mean I've seen his stream once in the past month, and he was playing (and beating) the top guys on ladder. In particular I remember him beating sixjaxterran who was ranked #2 overall at the time.
I dont know why you guys are talking about the family thing. Sponsor want good players, that are in huge tournaments to advertise their products. If they dont do that, the sponsor will not extend the contract. Being in korea, not qualifying for GSL 2 or 3 times, doing not good in the NASL isnt good for the sponsors. It is like burning money. Either haypro will get better or we will see the consequences really soon
you do know hes below 50% because he offraces a lot on his main account right? not because hes bad?
That seems like it would be a terrible idea for a pro since for ladder practice you would think they want to play the best players possible, dropping your MMR by off-racing is not going to do that.
HAHAHAHAHA your entire opinion is meaningless if you are seriously trying to say jinro is not performing as good as he could. He has shown amazing results in korea and foreign tournaments, he practices hard, and every time he loses you can see how upset he is.
Jinro is performing fine he lost 2 games to the best zerg in the world causing his early exit from Code S this season. I am sure he wants to do better but this is not even comparable to Haypro so I agree.
I don't think MMR and ladder ranking is that important for pros.
So many mouthy little jerks talking crap about Haypro.. he's in a slump as many other players are... stop trying to make a bigger deal than what it is..
On April 30 2011 23:53 s4life wrote: So many mouthy little jerks talking crap about Haypro.. he's in a slump as many other players are... stop trying to make a bigger deal than what it is..
To be honest, he hasn't ever won anything significant and I can't recall him beating any significant player in a BoX, either.
I'd understand calling it a slump if he had played significantly better earlier on, but I think he just hasn't been playing at the expected level at any point yet.
I think that this day had some really nice games. I especially liked the TvT even though it was depressing seeing Zergs lose to Protoss
On April 30 2011 23:53 s4life wrote: So many mouthy little jerks talking crap about Haypro.. he's in a slump as many other players are... stop trying to make a bigger deal than what it is..
For how long has he been slumping exactly? He has a negative win ratio over 150 games in tlpd and has never won any big event or gotten a high finish in any tournament.
I think it really is time for Haypro to stop trying to become a progamer... he has been in Korea for such a long time already and he has just been bad every single time I have seen him play.
Artosis keeps saying he is a good and so does IdrA but its just because they are his friends.
This clearly shows that everybody cant be a progamer but atleast he has tried and now he knows, nothing bad with that.
Its been such a long time he has played the game though so I feel sorry for him.
I felt the same for Ret though he won that Assembly but he really sucksa swell imo.
Its a bit bizzare that Haypro still gets supported even though he has never really produced anything good from his plays. That 3rd or 4th place he got at that Pokerstrategy tourney must have either been alot of cheese or just some bo win games.
No,his games at the Pokertourney were pretty legit macro games and it`s fair to say that he was on par with a Select or Sjow that day but lost to faulty decisions. I also think that he has very decent fundamentals but basically since his loss against Ganzi (last season code A ro32 iirc) he seems to have given up and declines noticeable.
there is not a lot of people because it's not in the calendar, so people watch drewbie being a pro, cruncher being boring and total biscuit being terrible on the ladder :D
On May 01 2011 02:08 Skvid wrote: So, is this being streamed from US? Because its laggy, even on 240p, and there isn't that many viewers on atm.
Stream works perfectly fine for me. Lots of people from EU complaining that justin.tv is lagging etc., but somehow it always works great for me, maybe Im just lucky guy? ;o
I don;t know how many people complain about lag issues, it really getting sad. Its either Justin TV and its servers or its the ISP or maybe your comp( and really don't really care what your comp is) I got a shitty comp and I never lag. Not trolling. Just stating a fact. So why do people keep whining about it, If IPL works fine then go watch it, if NASL works fine go watch it. I watch both no lag. SO I 'm asking why does it work for some and not for others. That's what you need to post about, instead of bitching. If you read the threads they give solutions to some, have you tried them. Have you thought maybe you need to take a minute, instead of blaming NASL or IPL, or any others. Please stop trolling.
I still wonder why NASL stream isnt featured, especially when IPL steam became featured instantly. This would help people to notice when NASL is rebroadcasting for Europe.
On May 01 2011 02:29 monXikk wrote: I still wonder why NASL stream isnt featured, especially when IPL steam became featured instantly. This would help people to notice when NASL is rebroadcasting for Europe.
ok usually the EU Rebroadcast is being Featured on TL i feel some script messed up because of the Change of the Month in Korea while here its still 30.04
I just barely caught it myself after checking NASL site even if nothing was on TL.
also Strelok doing iEchoic Build and NaDa completly lost what to do.
On May 01 2011 03:11 Gnarfle wrote: Ok, I gotta ask. The blizzardname that msg's gretorp(i think its gretorp) in games every now and then, is this just a troll or what is it?
What happened to Haypro ? 6pool attacking all the wrong places, infestors sleeping when phoenixes attack, letting his overlords loaded with banelings die without even trying to unload them ??????
seriously i'm wondering what's happening to haypro? he is in korea since so long and he never had a big win... okay maybe this 1000€ poker stuff but it's nothing compared to all those other pro out there.
EPT
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