EPTDreamhack Invitational - Page 589
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
|
LastMan
90 Posts
| ||
|
IPS.Mardow.
Germany713 Posts
 | ||
|
126Q;A1
Sweden517 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:04 -orb- wrote: Why is it that Boxer is the most famous starcraft player in the world and is essentially loved by everyone, while so many people are hating on MC? Why is it okay for Boxer to bunker rush yellow 3 games in a row in a bo5 to win a tournament final, yet MC doing one cheese strat in game 5 (which is extremely risky and ballsy by the way) all of a sudden makes him a villain? You people need to wake up What makes you think it was considered "okay"? You must not have been around at the time if you think that. | ||
|
elagrion
Ukraine422 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:04 -orb- wrote: Why is it that Boxer is the most famous starcraft player in the world and is essentially loved by everyone, while so many people are hating on MC? Cos he is Boxer, and MC just some squirt and no-manner (and back in BW times, when MC sucked hardly he was no-manner too) .On April 13 2011 06:04 -orb- wrote: Why is it okay for Boxer to bunker rush yellow 3 games in a row in a bo5 to win a tournament final, yet MC doing one cheese strat in game 5 (which is extremely risky and ballsy by the way) all of a sudden makes him a villain? Cos he is Boxer, and MC just some squirt and no-manner, and it was not a final, but semi-final of the most cool OSL EVER 2004 .And nope, i dont think that mc dont deserve win, or that cheesing is bad, but statements above - true. | ||
|
Piski
Finland3461 Posts
I haven't posted any QQ posts here but I can understand people who did. Even Hotbid and Nazgul posted here asking why the hell people are reacting like they are but isn't them just supporting players? I mean lets take footballs world cup as a example. Lets say I'm supporting my favorite team to win it, I don't really care if there is better teams or some other team could/is providing me better games. I still want MY team to win. When my team isn't playing I totally just want to enjoy the game and I apperciete when teams play awesome skilled football, but when my team plays I just want them to win. I accept that MC outplayed Whitera in that last game, mindgames wise at least but that doesn't mean I will be "Oh MC so great, you're such a good player" :f No. I wanted him to lose. Even in other sports people go crazy and bm the other team. I'm not saying it's acceptable but it just shows they are super passioned about their favorite players. Why is it so bad that people cheer for their player to win even if the other player is playing better (sorta) Of course bm is not really tolerated here so I can understand the few bans but people shouldn't be surprised that people are biased towards their favorite player. I can and do appreciate good games/series but I still want my fav player to win. Why E-sports should only be us appreciating good games, we do but we want our favorite players to win ^^ | ||
|
dakalro
Romania525 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:58 CoFran wrote: think i read somewhere in my starcraft bible that a certain slayersboxer is well-known for using bunker rush 3 times in a row versus yellow in an OSL.. did he take as much shit as MC for it?! The SC2 community is not the SC1 community. Seems like getting rushed on ladder leaves deep scars on people and they take it out on the ones that are actually in their own right to play the game as they best see fit, especially when it's the 9th official game MC plays vs WhiteRa this past month. | ||
|
Cloud92684
United States236 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:49 Slike wrote: I think you re missing my point or maybe i misphrased it. I dont mean that cheese is what I disagree with. Its a viable tactic and useful to punish greedy - non-careful play. What I dont like is the PvP matchup relying mostly on these kind of tactics + blind countering in the high level. Its just not entertaining for me as a viewer. Yes they do it to win but I dont get anything by watching MC or WR win 10 minute games , I want something more epic - if you know what I mean  That's more the problem with the design of protoss. Warpgates essentially makes the reinforcement time zero which makes map size pretty irrelevant. This makes the 4 gate very strong in all match ups but especially in the mirror match up since the tools to stop it are the same units. This is also the reason it's very hard to see macro PvP games at the highest level since one person teching too much or expanding would place them at a deficit and the zero reinforcement time allows for constant pressure. In the other mirror match ups the longer reinforcement times for zerg and terran allows for macro games. PvP macro games can only occur if both players just decide to be super defensive and allow each other to macro up which rarely occurs between top competitors. I hope that Blizzard will make some changes to allow for PvP macro games but that is a difficult task without messing up the balance with the other races. | ||
|
WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:06 dakalro wrote: No idea what series you've watched. 4gate vs 3 gate robo - WhiteRa cheese expand/fast colossus vs blink stalkers - no cheese 4gate vs 4gate x2 - extra cheese with extra cheese on top 2gate proxy - MC cheese This according to you, 4gate being cheese even if it's considered the most reliable PvP build. White Ra goes 4 gate game 1 White Ra goes 2 gate robo then 3rd gate game 2 White Ra goes 2 gate robo then 3rd gate game 3 White Ra goes 2 gate into defensve 4 gate game 4 White Ra goes ... died lol Cheese ? hello ? he 4 gated once. | ||
|
faceoff
Germany51 Posts
| ||
|
dakalro
Romania525 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:04 WhiteDog wrote: Long macro games and won = BARELY. Against IdrA in long maccro game he was dominated, he lost one against Morrow... serously, nobody says he cannot win a maccro game: he is certainly one of the best maccro player, but ONE OF THE BEST. He is not a "bonjwa", he should not have 3 win in GSL, he should not win every damn tournament. The current state of the game permit him to do so, and people are hungry about it. Where did you see MC being dominated vs Idra, he controlled that entire game. Not having any of his undefended bases harassed is good evidence of this. the only thing he could have lost there was the final engagement follow-up, and Idra gged because he's Idra. | ||
|
Piski
Finland3461 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:10 dakalro wrote: The SC2 community is not the SC1 community. Seems like getting rushed on ladder leaves deep scars on people and they take it out on the ones that are actually in their own right to play the game as they best see fit, especially when it's the 9th official game MC plays vs WhiteRa this past month. To be fair Boxer DID take a lot of shit when he did that :o | ||
|
dkream
Canada36 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:04 WhiteDog wrote: Long macro games and won = BARELY. Against IdrA in long maccro game he was dominated, he lost one against Morrow... serously, nobody says he cannot win a maccro game: he is certainly one of the best maccro player, but ONE OF THE BEST. He is not a "bonjwa", he should not have 3 win in GSL, he should not win every damn tournament. The current state of the game permit him to do so, and people are hungry about it. I LOLED hard still laughing now ppl are trying to discredit him the wins. idra surely almost won the game by doing absolutely nothing when mc was trying to buy time with harass and achieve what he wanted. Idra has poor positioning and MC seized the opportunity and nobody credits him for takign the opportunity (and he was never far behind that the game was an incredible comeback of any sort) | ||
|
Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
White-Ra is a great player, but he's not better than MC. In mirrors, there is no imbalance so it all comes down to player skill and mind games. MC has superior control and superior mind games. He's the better player. White-Ra has now lost a Bo3 and Bo5 to MC. You don't consistently lose series to a player unless they are better than you, especially if it's a mirror match up and there is no possible imbalance. | ||
|
seupac
Canada148 Posts
whitera chose to run a couple defensive builds which is his discretion, but 4gate in pvp is not traditional "cheese" - it is by far the most standard build you can run and very very balanced and skill reliant (IN PVP). you run 4gate, they run 4gate, its not build order roulette like most cheeses its even and all down to who has the best control. mc has better control than whitera and the games he won were won for that reason, whitera has some very cool and creative builds that can give him the edge on mc and he knows his control is not as good so he played to his strength. it was even until MC found a very obvious loophole as whitera never chose to build an early zealot | ||
|
Zeroxk
Norway1244 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:11 WhiteDog wrote: White Ra goes 4 gate game 1 White Ra goes 2 gate robo then 3rd gate game 2 White Ra goes 2 gate robo then 3rd gate game 3 White Ra goes 2 gate into defensve 4 gate game 4 White Ra goes ... died lol Cheese ? hello ? he 4 gated once. Defensive 4gate is still 4gate. So that makes MC 2x 4g and White ra 2x 4g | ||
|
zasda
381 Posts
| ||
|
oZii
United States1198 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:01 Zzoram wrote: In this tournament MC played: long macro games and won aggressive all-ins and won reactive play and won What more does a player have to do? People calling him cheesy are just flat out wrong. He does whatever he best suits the situation, based on the map, his opponent's style, and what he scouts. He's good at every style of play and wins with every style of play. Do people honestly think a no rush 15 final game would've been better? That's ridiculous. The most exciting match of their while series was how $15,000 rested on White-Ra's probe just barely missing MC's probe. That's edge of your seat excitement much more than 10 vs 10 colossus. QFT I think the only way people will be satisfied is when they get what they want finally. I tournament with a 8 minute no rush rule with pro players. Even then I think people will still complain while they go and get snacks and talk on the phone for the first 8 minutes because they know just about everything thats going to happen. Someone earlier wrote it best when they said when you see cheese in a Bo3 tournament its not the same as when you get cheesed on the ladder. The result can be the same a Win or a Loss, but on ladder you move on to the next opponent and either reap rewards immediately i.e move up in rating or lose immediately. In a Bo3 tournament if your cheesed in game 1 you still have another game to get your act together and scout better. In a Bo3 tournament you can look at a person known to "cheese" previous tournaments and have some clue if he will cheese on game 1, 2, or 3. In the ladder if Bob cheeses every game and you run into him and he beats you that doesnt mean your next opponent Tom cheeses every game. People tend to take their last loss into there next game when its 2 different people. Point is the decision to cheese in a Bo3 tournament is not the same decision making as cheesing on ladder. Outcome is a instant win or loss of 1 game but doesn't guarantee you a win of the Match Set. Even ladder cheese doesnt mean instant loss either. I think people see Cheese = The Darkside, Macro = The Good Side. Cheese in Bo3 is like a Flea Flicker in football unexpected play but you have to still practice against it. If your beat by a flea flicker for a touchdown it doesnt mean its the end of the game and its only your fault for leaving your assignment to pursue the Run with out recognizing its not a run. Cheese in a Fighting game tournament could be considered Short Short throw rinse and repeat. Its still Bo3 and its something you can do yourself. Depending on game you could counter and tech to recover but if you don't learn from the first game its coming and lose 2 it a second time its only your fault not your opponents. The list could go on and on but in Bo3 losing to something you don't like once doesnt mean instant loss. | ||
|
hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:09 IPS.Mardow. wrote: naniwa would crush him lol, doubt it, but if White_Ra can take games off of MC then Naniwa could beat him | ||
|
Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:04 mordek wrote: Very true. As a spectator, player, and White-Ra fan, game 5 was just a sinking feeling in my stomache after the proxy pylon got up. Basically it just left what I would guess a majority of the viewers with a bad feeling at the end of the tournament. Which is too bad because it was a great tournament. Can't we all just agree that MC is good? And more importantly, that we love White-Ra! Since you mention you're a White-Ra fan: I dont know, but you seem unexperienced. I dont want to sound rude, but that's normal when your favourite team/player loses an important match. You will feel like crying. You will blame the opponent using a stupid/cheesy strategy. Take any football (soccer) match in an elimination round. If team A is getting ahead, they play very defensively for the last ~15mins. Trying to win time (taking their time for throw ins/ free kicks / goal kicks / injuries / ...). If you're a fan of team B you HATE that. It's the most cheesy thing to do. If you're a team A fan it's normal & intelligent. This feelings suck, yes. But honestly if you dont feel that way you will never experience the joy if your favourite team /player wins something. This time the MC fans could celebrate (seeing a 0-2 comeback is AWESOME!). Especially when seeing that proxy "OMG PLZ DONT SCOUT IT! PLZ PLZ PLZ DONT LET WHITERA SEE IT". And the White-Ra fans feel cheated & are heartbroken. Next time - who knows? But trust me, people enjoying those games & hating those games is actually a great thing. Even though it feels like shit sometimes  | ||
|
dakalro
Romania525 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:11 WhiteDog wrote: White Ra goes 4 gate game 1 White Ra goes 2 gate robo then 3rd gate game 2 White Ra goes 2 gate robo then 3rd gate game 3 White Ra goes 2 gate into defensve 4 gate game 4 White Ra goes ... died lol Cheese ? hello ? he 4 gated once. I apologize, I missed most of Game 3. They're even on the 4 gates then. | ||
| ||
