EPTAt least in PvP.
Dreamhack Invitational - Page 587
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
At least in PvP. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10963 Posts
Everyone would start scouting for it every game. It would no longer be viable. More "longer" games would be the Result. As long as they don't do it, you gotta deal with it. MC was smart, the complaining of you guys is moronic. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:53 xTNodub wrote: It was a great tourney with loads of good stories to be told from it. I bet the only person RA is blaming is himself. MC took huge risks and got a huge reward. He didn't 4 gate every game. Grats to everyone, especially those who threw Dreamhack! MC's 3 wins were: 4gate blink stalkers proxy gates he did 3 different builds in a row and won from control (first 2) and mind games (last). White-Ra had more repeated builds than MC, so he was technically more boring. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:44 Chongli wrote: I'm sure I'm not the first person to write it since theres 580+ pages.... but... If White-Ra had won Game 5 the same way, people would be sucking him off in this thread for having such big balls instead of crucifying MC for doing the same thing. The difference is: white-ra is not rushing every game ? | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
all the mc hate is just venting frustration from people, seeing their favorite lose by cheese and dramatic tournament ending with no colossi battle. what happen to the days where we flashed our boobies every time boxer did some pre-4 minute strategies? i for one enjoyed tremendously when boxer bunker rushed yellow 3 times in a row. | ||
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mpupu
Argentina183 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:47 Arpe wrote: And if SC2 want to make it bigtime I think they/we/production/casters need to find ways to make cheese like that feel just as epic as a 40min slugfest. As I said before, the commentators could have hyped up MC's comeback to win the tournament the same way they do with a reverse all-kill in SC1. It was hard though, because everyone was so emotionally invested in the opportunity for White-Ra to beat MC. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:48 Grantiere wrote:Disagree. I felt like Federer, at match point, served an underhanded spinning dropshot to ace Nadal to take the tournament. Crazy and ballsy and completely unexpected. Because people really liked it when Hingis did the underhand serves against Seles? No, people thought it was pathetic. I think that's the perfect analogy though, except Hingis lost, but whatever. | ||
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TheOrz
United States33 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:43 SuperStyle wrote: People need to realize that this is a job for players, this is how they make money for living, by winning. They are not playing the game for fun or entertainment. Hell if i was in the finals and having the chance to win 15k$, id play as dirty as possible.. Id even go and like take out the batteries or spill some soda over opponents keyboard, or basically do anything that might give me an edge over the opponent. Of course they will do whatever it takes to win and cheese counts as a win as much as a 40 min long macro game. In the end the guys and sponsors that pay the checks dont care that the winner won by cheese or long macro games, they care that by his name theres a number 3 and by opponents is a number 2. Also trophies,medals nor money dont care if u won them by cheese or not,neither if u deserved them or not. I agree with you up to a point. It seems like you would be OK with people cheating to win. Of course, cheating in any sport undermines the entire sport, hence why players who are caught cheating are banned and their awards rescinded. Cheesing of course, is not cheating. Anything you can do within the game is not cheating. I would even argue that taking advantage of bugs via normal gameplay is not even cheating (the onus would be on the game creators to patch the game not the player to not take advantage of it). | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:56 WhiteDog wrote: The difference is: white-ra is not rushing every game ? Greedy economic cheeses are just as cheesy. Punishing greed is good play. | ||
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CoFran
Canada342 Posts
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DigitalisDestructi
United States488 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:44 Zane wrote: The game is so dumb that MC is hands down the most dominating player, even though he only relies on rushes (the way he executes his rushes is impressive nevertheless). Considering his playstyle, I don't expect his domination to last much longer. People will figure out ways to deal with him/the game will get patched, and then the solid players will start to shine. At least that's what I hope. Are you saying that MC isn't solid? Sounds like you think MC can only play one way, while he has shown us both safe and risky builds. Tournament play is a different beast from the ladder, man. You can be super-mega-duper-solid when practicing, but when tournament's on the line, you gotta mix things up, which is what MC excels at. | ||
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dakalro
Romania525 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:49 Slike wrote: I think you re missing my point or maybe i misphrased it. I dont mean that cheese is what I disagree with. Its a viable tactic and useful to punish greedy - non-careful play. What I dont like is the PvP matchup relying mostly on these kind of tactics + blind countering in the high level. Its just not entertaining for me as a viewer. Yes they do it to win but I dont get anything by watching MC or WR win 10 minute games , I want something more epic - if you know what I mean I can understand that some people like long action filled games. But for now not even the expand builds for PvP are actually expand builds. It seems to me the 2nd nexus is there just to say: Hah, you failed to punish me I am a million miles ahead now since it fails most of the time. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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Zannadar
Turkey294 Posts
Am I disappointed? Am I gutted? Yes to both questions and I really want to flame MC like there is no tomorrow. However, the guy is good and the win is perfectly legit...As someone else said, when you look at the past, noone cares about cheese, what you remember is....the winner... Fucking cheeser MC...Sigh ^__^ | ||
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:58 Zzoram wrote: Greedy economic cheeses are just as cheesy. Punishing greed is good play. Yes, that's why BitByBit was my hero. He never did an economic cheese, never made more than 15 SCVs, which he used to attack anyway (leaving them mining would have been greedy). | ||
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Opkast
19 Posts
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dapanman
United States316 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:47 Arpe wrote: To Hot_Bid and all you other well educated SC fans. Im a casual viewer. I watch some GSL, maybe TSL if I find the time. I dont play SC2 at all actually, even though I did play for a few months when it was released. I feel like im a good example of a "noobish casual viewer" and part of a crowd that the E-sport and SC2 scene really wants to get more viewers from. Now I do understand that for you that final game was really smart and all, but for me that didnt happen. And if SC2 want to make it bigtime I think they/we/production/casters need to find ways to make cheese like that feel just as epic as a 40min slugfest. I just don't think thats possible, at the very least not possible in this situation. I for one don't blame MC one bit for making the decision he did in game 5, but the way that game played out was just not exciting, there was a tense moment after the first pylon was dropped when we weren't sure if WR was going to check for proxies, and that was it. When he queued up a probe to scout the top base, the outcome of that game was perfectly clear. Anyone who has lost to a proxy on that map knows the pylon position on the low ground will not be spotted by the AI pathing, in fact the only reason that probe came anywhere close was because WR was scouting the wrong base. For the casters, there is absolutely nothing to say besides: "OH GOD HE IS PROXYING WILL WR SCOUT" "OH GOD HE ISNT SCOUTING" "OH GOD NOW HES SCOUTING THE WRONG BASE" "OH GOD GG" The casters did the best they could by pretending that probe's path was anywhere close to spotting the pylon. Unfortunately for you I don't think there is anyway to make a 3 minute game that is decided at 1:15 'epic,' which really is just too bad. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
He got lucky in Game 1 (while his probe slipped into the main his main army was getting decimated at the front) and decisively won in Game 2, but he should have kept the pressure on MC with mindgames. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:56 Zzoram wrote: MC's 3 wins were: 4gate blink stalkers proxy gates he did 3 different builds in a row and won from control (first 2) and mind games (last). White-Ra had more repeated builds than MC, so he was technically more boring. Yup and same WhiteRA predictability in TSL. Face it guys MC has better strategies and reacts better. (hence another win) | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
long macro games and won aggressive all-ins and won reactive play and won What more does a player have to do? People calling him cheesy are just flat out wrong. He does whatever he best suits the situation, based on the map, his opponent's style, and what he scouts. He's good at every style of play and wins with every style of play. Do people honestly think a no rush 15 final game would've been better? That's ridiculous. The most exciting match of their while series was how $15,000 rested on White-Ra's probe just barely missing MC's probe. That's edge of your seat excitement much more than 10 vs 10 colossus. | ||
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