EPTDreamhack Invitational - Page 586
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
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Grantiere
United States129 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:08 wshm wrote: Again, they don't ban you from soccer for doing that. Every trainer would tell you that fouling the last man to prevent a goal is the best thing to do and they would fire you if you don't do that because it's against the rules. You get a red card but you prevent a goal, you cheese but if you fail you lose the game. The example works in my opinion. If a SC2 tournament's rules for disconnecting while losing always resulted in a regame and therefore didn't punish the dropper to the same degree as the advantage gained, would you advocate exploiting that too? Should athletes take banned performance enhancing substances if leagues are unable to adequately detect or punish the misbehavior, since the advantages outweigh the consequences? Your example fails because one situation occurs outside the rules of the game, and the other does not. White-ra pulled his goalie early 5 games in a row. Forgive MC for forgoing the buildup to take a shot down the field. Don't compare him to a cheater. On April 13 2011 04:56 stempien wrote: Just imagine that you are on Roland Garros Grand Slam Tournament. You watch some great games, Roddick vs Youzhny; Murray vs Soderling; Verdasco vs Ferrer. You are so pumped. You wait for that play... the other one.... NADAL vs FEDERER Everything is prepared. You've been waiting for this... for a very long time. And there... There is an information... That Federer is unable to play because of the stomach problem. And that kind of feeling gave me MC after the fifth map. That's all. Don't you agree with me? Disagree. I felt like Federer, at match point, served an underhanded spinning dropshot to ace Nadal to take the tournament. Crazy and ballsy and completely unexpected. | ||
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Slike
Greece127 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:42 dakalro wrote: Why disagree? It's been in SC1 for what, 13 years now? And it makes for some entertaining spicing of matches. This is not cheese as you get in your ladder games, may look the same but it's nowhere near the same decision process that goes into why it gets performed, stop thinking of WhiteRa as a victim as you once was on ladder, he's not, he's probably banging his head on a wall now for not seeing it or laughing his ass off with MC instead of crying. May not have been the most visually attractive game in SC2 but I can't remember a more effective cheese or any other game that was decided purely in a mind battle, did even more than 1 probe die that game? Did even 1 probe die that game?. I think you re missing my point or maybe i misphrased it. I dont mean that cheese is what I disagree with. Its a viable tactic and useful to punish greedy - non-careful play. What I dont like is the PvP matchup relying mostly on these kind of tactics + blind countering in the high level. Its just not entertaining for me as a viewer. Yes they do it to win but I dont get anything by watching MC or WR win 10 minute games , I want something more epic - if you know what I mean  | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
Why all the hate? Grats MC! Best in the world until proven otherwise. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:34 enemy2010 wrote: The thing is, MC can have both. He could win so much games and tournaments AND be (sometimes) a gentleman. That would gain him so much more fans and make him even more famous and awesome. He has won the money, everybody knows that he is able to own and win. It could be time to show people that he is also a huge baller.  Great GREAT tournament overall! I didn't thought that this small tourney on one day would be that big in the end! So amazing! I dont even know how to put that in words! THANKS SWEDEN! :D :D :D Sorry, but I disagree. Nazgul made an excellent point that this just leads to the entire game become 'an act.' Why are we handicapping top level play by deciding what is and isn't allowed by the spectators' standpoint? Why should a player feel bad for using a legitimate, counterable strategy to win? If anything, it becomes less spectator-friendly when you know how the first 8 minutes of a game will play out: No rushing allowed guys, would be too bad if the spectators didn't see a 40 minute game with nukes, motherships and nydus canals every game. Then MC comes out with a metal chair and smacks MVP with it, claiming the championship belt will be his this year. | ||
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Hierarch
United States2197 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:48 tdt wrote: Cheese carries a huge risk and takes huge balls. Scouted it auto lose. WhiteRA only has himself to blame not scouting inside his own base. Yup shoulda taken the naniwa approach of "I'm not getting cheesed" and just done a quick run around the edge of his base and scouted after 9 and he would have held. | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:46 andrewlt wrote: He was obviously trying to entertain the foreigner biased fans. He only 4-gated when he was about to lose the series. Those were prepared builds. 4-gate doesn't win you every game in every map. Stop making it seem like MC wasn't even trying in the first two games... he got outplayed. | ||
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dkream
Canada36 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:18 WhiteDog wrote: MC does a 3 gate blink on xel naga, a 4gate on crevasse and a proxy gate on shakuras. Each time he tried to go robo he lost, each time he won it was a game with less than 10 minute with only t1 units, each time he made a nexus... ho no wait HE DID NOT MAKE ANY NEXUS IN ALL 5 GAME. It does not feel fair, it does not feel like we are seeing the best players, it does not feel like it is the deepest starcraft 2 experience we can have. Ok, blaming MC is bad, so we gotta blame the game ? lol go review tsl and let me know on robo part. and lol at nexus part. Iunno what level you playing at but throwing down nexus has huge risk. White-ra gambled with nexus worked out fine for him this time but there was no reason for MC to throw down nexus. | ||
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mpupu
Argentina183 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:44 0123456789 wrote: You play sports to win, doesn't matter who's better or more entertaining. Yes. On April 13 2011 05:44 0123456789 wrote: In the end, only the winner and prize money is all that counts. No. | ||
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pyro19
6575 Posts
And the last game was pure brilliance , You gotta have balls of steel to Cheese at the Crunch match. MC plays to win and at the End of the day , only the Winners are remembered. | ||
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DZK
Canada40 Posts
The game is so dumb that MC is hands down the most dominating player, even though he only relies on rushes (the way he executes his rushes is impressive nevertheless). Considering his playstyle, I don't expect his domination to last much longer. People will figure out ways to deal with him/the game will get patched, and then the solid players will start to shine. At least that's what I hope. MC is actually quite strong in macro games as well, the reason why you see him rush so much is because it seems to work and no one seems to have figured out how to defend them yet. | ||
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holynorth
United States590 Posts
The amount of fanboyism is disgusting. MC is without a doubt one of the best players in SC2, with his only true competitor being MVP. MC can macro just fine, not his fault PvP forces 4 gate every time. MC knew that White-Ra thought he would 4 gate and go with the 3 stalker build. Looks like proxy gate wins that when not scouted. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:42 Megatronn wrote: MC > White Ra 4 gate. MC < White Ra Other builds. Watch TSL and educate yourself. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
Thanks | ||
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xTNodub
United States84 Posts
Grats to everyone, especially those who threw Dreamhack! | ||
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legatus legionis
Netherlands559 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:29 dakalro wrote: Sorry if this opinion is offensive: Everyone plays the game now, everyone gets cheesed and cries after each proxy gate/rax/6pool so everyone hates them with a passion, except when they do it, and most of them do it on the ladder where it's nothing but a coin toss with no actual decision/thinking involved. When it's performed with a reason, within a set strategy by a player that's proven himself of being extremely good they are incapable of seeing beyond their own tear flooded memories. All the qoutes contained in the above are excellent. They each tackle a specific area about the usage of cheese. I wanted to qoute this because I really have to think if there is anything more to add. Maybe the argument people make "do it for the spectators". No competitor is ever obliged to show off instead of playing his or her best to win. There is no expression in someone during peak performance, they are blank, they are one with their actions. This is what you should find beautiful, the drive for excellence, being the best you can be no matter what. | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:52 pyro19 wrote: I Don"t get People these days , there are like 3 viable builds in PVP , and if MC uses any of them he is a Cheeser.? And the last game was pure brilliance , You gotta have balls of steel to Cheese at the Crunch match. MC plays to win and at the End of the day , only the Winners are remembered. That's kinda silly thing to say when Whitera probably gained more fans with this tournament than MC by winning it :o | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:49 IPA wrote: Is anyone really surprised MC won? Really? Why all the hate? Grats MC! Best in the world until proven otherwise. It's hate because White-Ra is a beloved foreigner and MC beat him. If the situation was reversed there would be 20 pages of "special taktix" photoshops. MC shouldn't be hated for his superior control and exploiting weaknesses in White-Ra's play. In boxing, it always sucks for the audience when a guy gets knocked out in the first round. However, as a boxer, are you supposed to only throw girly punches in the early game to drag out a 10 round match for the fans? Or do you take the opportunity to throw that critical punch to win when you notice a weakness in their guard? Since there are so many "no rush 15" guys always whining up a storm in tournament threads, should someone host a tournament on noobie maps with bases all sealed shut by 50,000HP rocks? That would give people the long games people seem to be clamouring for. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:46 Zocat wrote: But imagine that White-Ras's late scout would spot the pylon. Or wouldnt scout the wrong base first. Or that he would place his 2nd pylon at the ramp (and scout the gates). I understand you, I was "OH the scout misses the pylon!". Then "OMG he scouts the wrong base". Then "Oh yeah also pylon at the back". It was clearly over by then. If White-Ra would've have scouted the pylon or the the correct base he would have had time to react. And I bet a great micro battle with shitton of tension would've occured. I dont say there was no excitement in that game. I say there could've been more excitement  Yeah if White_Ra had scouted on 9 he would've intercepted MC's probe | ||
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