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On March 27 2011 08:14 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I think all we can take from this is that
1) SC2 is currently really volatile in terms of players form changing really quickly from day to day, and the game is perhaps not as well figured out as we sometimes like to think.
2) The guys that won played good.
Someone pointed out in this thread that SC2 is not as mechanical oriented as SC1, aka. SC2 is much more about your tactics and strategies than how well you can micro/macro, given you got masters-level mechanics of course.
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Silly question but.. Where are the players playing? Is there a referee near them? How is the control made? Thanks! 
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I wanted a foreigner only tournament cuz i find it more interesting but it looks like my wish is coming true regardless. Here is to praying for tyler vs idra finals!
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On March 27 2011 08:17 Scila wrote:I hope you're trolling.
Today beat any GSL matches ive seen so far
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On March 27 2011 08:11 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:09 dsousa wrote:On March 27 2011 07:59 Chill wrote:On March 27 2011 07:58 iExtrapolate wrote:
There were many moments in the game in which Naniwa repositioned his units to prepare for an attack at a non obvious position immediately before an attack occurred. Some people in this thread claim that this was purely intuition, but because the time at which the drop occurred and the time at which the stalkers were moved to position in which they could defend the drop was so close, if there were no map hacks, there was obviously a lot of luck involved. So the two explanations for the random preparedness of Naniwa are either that he has a great intuition and got lucky at several different times in the series or that he map hacked.
Considering that this is a tournament with a 5 figure prize pool and there is no way for the commentators to detect a map hacker, it is not without reason to assume that, in this tournament, they could exist. I think, for the sake of the legitimacy of this tournament, the replays from this series should be watched from Naniwa's vision to determine whether or not he map hacked. While I agree that it may be a little rash to outright accuse Naniwa of map hacking, it would be naive to just assume, that in all of those circumstances it was his intuition that prepared him for those non obvious attacks.
Are you serious? I asked a similar question a few days ago... and you asked this same question? "Are you serious?" Yes, people are serious about this. Why are you so sure this doesn't happen? Or are you just trying to shame skeptics from asking questions? You should follow up with...... "The reason I/we are sure that map hacking does not occur is because......." please fill in the blank..seriously! Way to interpret the post incorrectly. Read that ridiculous posts again and tell me it's a serious hacking accusation. It's a mild, ridiculous hacking accusation by someone who either didn't watch the games or knows little about how the game works.
This might be true, but is it grounds for out right banning? He clearly stated an opinion that Naniwa was very lucky or maphacking. Whats the big deal? The mods here have become pretty goddamn fierce.
+ Show Spoiler +btw im not saying Naniwa was maphacking
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On March 27 2011 08:18 Genzo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:17 Scila wrote:On March 27 2011 07:23 RogueStatus wrote:
TSL3, best sc2 tournament thus far I hope you're trolling. Today beat any GSL matches ive seen so far
i think he didn't saw qxc
edit : or he is referring to lags, now stop this
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anyone else 0-4 today on liquibets? cause...i sure am.
proud of my foreigners though, game2 of the qxc genius game was amazing, and goodies decision making > nestea's which was flipping unbelievable to watch.
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On March 27 2011 07:51 Kvothe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 07:47 Dawn11 wrote:On March 27 2011 07:31 Kvothe wrote:On March 27 2011 07:29 Tef wrote:On March 27 2011 07:24 Kvothe wrote:On March 27 2011 07:23 Kazzabiss wrote:On March 27 2011 07:21 Kvothe wrote:On March 27 2011 07:20 Shika wrote:On March 27 2011 07:18 Owii wrote:
4 upsets? Last game was hardly an upset. I went 3/4 on my liquidbet tonight. Only missed on qxc's game, he has obviously improved by playing in europe. You are somehow proud you called goody vs nestea, fluke of the century. Go watch some of Goody's matches on gosugamers, and then come back and seriously tell me he is at half the level nestea is. What? How is he proud for one, and two, whaaaaaat? I also "called" GoOdy over NesTea because I'm smart No that is called luck, Goody would lose first round in Code A 9 out of 10 times. You seriously underestimate him. As most of his opponents do if they have never played him before. I've watched many of his games on gosugamers, I thought he was a low tier amateur then, and I still think he is now. You say under estimated, I say many people watch his games and realize hes bad. I agree with that majority. so funny how people can call nestea the best zerg in the world, while he is losing to a " bad player" that just make you look hilarious. of course you see matches from goody getting beaten pretty hard, but only from players who played him like a billion times before - and if the koreans are so confident in their uber-skill to beat non-koreans with no preparation its just their fault and they just deserve to get owned ;-) btw: i although think that people getting blinded by what they see on the gsl. i mean playing 10hours standard play a day will most likely improve your mechanics but on the other side how often do you think nestea has to play against an only mech terran? just my thoughts ;-) Who is calling nestea the best zerg in the world? I don't remember saying that in my post, Goody barely won a best of 3 series against a zerg player facing serious lag as shown by the other Korean matches, I'm assuming he must have as well. And he won because nestea made some huge blunders, not some awesome great play. He meched out and sent some auto repairing scvs with his army, got lucky nestea had zero lings in the third game at a xel naga and lost 15 drones for nothing. Causing him to barely win the game.
I'm no pro, just (hopefully) a bit good at spectating but my 2 cents about that (and some other posts) are :
-nestea's style is much more dependant on lag than goody is so yeah, lag is an issue
-watch iem, 2-3 class A koreans get in the tourney and "own (the creme de la creme) white dudes" then compare to tonight : lag can be an issue
-I don't think a player like nestea expects to go far in those tourneys anyway, he's just in for the hype (and sponsor money that comes with it) ; if he has to fight someone like idra and the battle goes to a zerg+baneling fight, a 1 sec lag/latency is probably high enough to make him lose the game everytime since that would rely on crazy intense macro and he'd never be able to get the reaction time he's supposed to to give a fair fight ; he probably knows that but hey, if you're invited, why not give it a shot.
-goody is probably destabilising if you don't know his style, i guess top class koreans have forgotten how to deal with so much turtling because that style is so slow and efficient no one is playing like that anymore over there - they probably found a way to deal with it years ago and since then no one has dared playing like that anymore ---->they forgot how to deal with it. And maybe there is no answer to that style except turtling up in a similar way but in that case, we're on our way to some boring starcraft in the future (or just patch the game so everyone starts at 200/200 with siege tanks, we'll save some spectating time)
-I like goody's style now and then, I think he's got a great vision of the game but I don't wanna see it take over everything, i wanna see matches faster and more flexible than what he has to offer, otherwise I'll go play Risk or Monopoly.
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On March 27 2011 08:19 Chewie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:11 IntoTheWow wrote:On March 27 2011 08:09 dsousa wrote:On March 27 2011 07:59 Chill wrote:On March 27 2011 07:58 iExtrapolate wrote:
There were many moments in the game in which Naniwa repositioned his units to prepare for an attack at a non obvious position immediately before an attack occurred. Some people in this thread claim that this was purely intuition, but because the time at which the drop occurred and the time at which the stalkers were moved to position in which they could defend the drop was so close, if there were no map hacks, there was obviously a lot of luck involved. So the two explanations for the random preparedness of Naniwa are either that he has a great intuition and got lucky at several different times in the series or that he map hacked.
Considering that this is a tournament with a 5 figure prize pool and there is no way for the commentators to detect a map hacker, it is not without reason to assume that, in this tournament, they could exist. I think, for the sake of the legitimacy of this tournament, the replays from this series should be watched from Naniwa's vision to determine whether or not he map hacked. While I agree that it may be a little rash to outright accuse Naniwa of map hacking, it would be naive to just assume, that in all of those circumstances it was his intuition that prepared him for those non obvious attacks.
Are you serious? I asked a similar question a few days ago... and you asked this same question? "Are you serious?" Yes, people are serious about this. Why are you so sure this doesn't happen? Or are you just trying to shame skeptics from asking questions? You should follow up with...... "The reason I/we are sure that map hacking does not occur is because......." please fill in the blank..seriously! Way to interpret the post incorrectly. Read that ridiculous posts again and tell me it's a serious hacking accusation. It's a mild, ridiculous hacking accusation by someone who either didn't watch the games or knows little about how the game works. This might be true, but is it grounds for out right banning? He clearly stated an opinion that Naniwa was very lucky or maphacking. Whats the big deal? The mods here have become pretty goddamn fierce. + Show Spoiler +btw im not saying Naniwa was maphacking
i have been told to not respond here by many people since they say i will get flamed, ill just try to clarify the issues you are having understanding this simple move on game 3 that i asume is what you mean by " maphack " , I just killed his third and it cost me alot of units. ofcourse ret wants to make counter-damage. is it too hard to grasp ?
if its game 1, i had a zealot at tower.
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On March 27 2011 08:10 Naniwa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 07:58 iExtrapolate wrote:
There were many moments in the game in which Naniwa repositioned his units to prepare for an attack at a non obvious position immediately before an attack occurred. Some people in this thread claim that this was purely intuition, but because the time at which the drop occurred and the time at which the stalkers were moved to position in which they could defend the drop was so close, if there were no map hacks, there was obviously a lot of luck involved. So the two explanations for the random preparedness of Naniwa are either that he has a great intuition and got lucky at several different times in the series or that he map hacked.
Considering that this is a tournament with a 5 figure prize pool and there is no way for the commentators to detect a map hacker, it is not without reason to assume that, in this tournament, they could exist. I think, for the sake of the legitimacy of this tournament, the replays from this series should be watched from Naniwa's vision to determine whether or not he map hacked. While I agree that it may be a little rash to outright accuse Naniwa of map hacking, it would be naive to just assume, that in all of those circumstances it was his intuition that prepared him for those non obvious attacks.
User was banned for this post. i assure you i do not maphack.
As much as I disliked it when you had your rages, I would have loved to see one here, this post deserves more then a ban either a comedy prize or some serious flames.
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On March 27 2011 08:17 Scila wrote:I hope you're trolling.
Although this might not be the best SC2 tourney so far, it's up there. Why is he "trolling"? This tournament has seen numerous entertaining game and is the only major tournament so far that matches top Koreans with foreigners. Everything about that is just awesome.
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In the FXO INV and TSL koreans have been dropping pretty quickly. This is either the era of foreigner confidence(awesome Goody!), or the era of a necesary patch for LAN. I hope it is the former, because I have been telling a lot of people I don't see what makes MC's midgame pvt unbeatable for example. It simply isn't. Jinro is awesome, and on the top foreigner level- look at how far hes gone, with tons of mistakes along the way. I almost think you should be able to pay extra money... to have the ability to custom across servers with LAN. That way serious players can have this option, and blizzard would still make the money they want.
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On March 27 2011 08:19 Chewie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:11 IntoTheWow wrote:On March 27 2011 08:09 dsousa wrote:On March 27 2011 07:59 Chill wrote:On March 27 2011 07:58 iExtrapolate wrote:
There were many moments in the game in which Naniwa repositioned his units to prepare for an attack at a non obvious position immediately before an attack occurred. Some people in this thread claim that this was purely intuition, but because the time at which the drop occurred and the time at which the stalkers were moved to position in which they could defend the drop was so close, if there were no map hacks, there was obviously a lot of luck involved. So the two explanations for the random preparedness of Naniwa are either that he has a great intuition and got lucky at several different times in the series or that he map hacked.
Considering that this is a tournament with a 5 figure prize pool and there is no way for the commentators to detect a map hacker, it is not without reason to assume that, in this tournament, they could exist. I think, for the sake of the legitimacy of this tournament, the replays from this series should be watched from Naniwa's vision to determine whether or not he map hacked. While I agree that it may be a little rash to outright accuse Naniwa of map hacking, it would be naive to just assume, that in all of those circumstances it was his intuition that prepared him for those non obvious attacks.
Are you serious? I asked a similar question a few days ago... and you asked this same question? "Are you serious?" Yes, people are serious about this. Why are you so sure this doesn't happen? Or are you just trying to shame skeptics from asking questions? You should follow up with...... "The reason I/we are sure that map hacking does not occur is because......." please fill in the blank..seriously! Way to interpret the post incorrectly. Read that ridiculous posts again and tell me it's a serious hacking accusation. It's a mild, ridiculous hacking accusation by someone who either didn't watch the games or knows little about how the game works. This might be true, but is it grounds for out right banning? He clearly stated an opinion that Naniwa was very lucky or maphacking. Whats the big deal? The mods here have become pretty goddamn fierce. + Show Spoiler +btw im not saying Naniwa was maphacking
No. I absolutely love the mods for banning exact the right posts. His post was so bad, I could not agree more on banning someone.
Thank you mods for a good job
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damn it naniwa is so good, that people actually think about him cheating.
he has to be reading this thread and is like smiling from one ear to another ;-)
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On March 27 2011 08:14 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:04 Logo2010 wrote:
Does anyone believe Mvp, Nestea, Genius played well today? And therefore lost straight up? Whatever about other issues. In a gaming sense, how do you account for Mvp losing a reaper and marine to probes after 15 nexus. Is that good play or bad play? Genius fighting sieged tanks and marines vs sentries. Is that good play or bad play?
Nestea banelings vs mech. Moving spinecrawlers into sieged tanks and marines? Is that good play or bad play?
Yeah to imply Goody would tear up the GSL when players like SlayersMin, Seed and Bomber aren't even in the GSL, well is that a smart statement or a stupid statement?
Grats to the winning players today but lets not go overboard. Also realise there's the GSL World Championship beginning in two days and some of the players playing today have their mind on that competition. Didnt see MVPs games, but he does seem to have a tough time v Ps lately (1-2 alica, 0-2 genius to drop down to Code A).... Only saw the last game for Genius vs QXC, but it seemed to me like Genius hadnt really adapted to the new patch very well (I think upgrades are a lot more important than they ever were, having a shit-ton of gas saved up for templars isnt really as good now for obvious reasons). Missed most of game 2 of nestea vs goody, but well... He did seem to waste an awful lot of stuff, but I dont think he played so bad that you need to take anything away from Goody - Nestea doesnt play flawlessly in other games either. As for dominating GSL, no I dont think Goody would do that - if he wins this TSL, yes we can start thinking about it but he has a lot of rounds left to go. I mean, these are all good players that are losing, really big ones actually but... Come on, last GSL results for players in TSL: Me: Ro16 Boxer: Out in groups, down to code A Nestea: Out in groups, retained code S MVP: Out in groups, down to code A Fruitdealer: Out in groups, retained code S Genius: Out in groups, retained code S NaDa: RO8 MC: Won last GSL HuK: Made code S I think all we can take from this is that 1) SC2 is currently really volatile in terms of players form changing really quickly from day to day, and the game is perhaps not as well figured out as we sometimes like to think. 2) The guys that won played good.
Watch mvp vs Adel and tell me he wasn't affected by huge delay. I've never seen a more obvious case of a player lagging.
In fact just watch the first few minutes of each game. In the first a zealot walks up mvp's ramp and gets like 3 attacks off before he moves his marines back and in the 2nd he loses a reaper and a marine to probes. That's not even getting to his apparant inability to kite slow zealots with stimmed marauders.
He wouldn't qualify for GSL controlling his units like that, never mind win the thing.
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im so glad the foreigners are beating the koreans!
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On March 27 2011 07:41 RoseTempest wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 07:36 vdale wrote:On March 27 2011 07:31 Kvothe wrote:On March 27 2011 07:29 Tef wrote:On March 27 2011 07:24 Kvothe wrote:On March 27 2011 07:23 Kazzabiss wrote:On March 27 2011 07:21 Kvothe wrote:On March 27 2011 07:20 Shika wrote:On March 27 2011 07:18 Owii wrote:
4 upsets? Last game was hardly an upset. I went 3/4 on my liquidbet tonight. Only missed on qxc's game, he has obviously improved by playing in europe. You are somehow proud you called goody vs nestea, fluke of the century. Go watch some of Goody's matches on gosugamers, and then come back and seriously tell me he is at half the level nestea is. What? How is he proud for one, and two, whaaaaaat? I also "called" GoOdy over NesTea because I'm smart No that is called luck, Goody would lose first round in Code A 9 out of 10 times. You seriously underestimate him. As most of his opponents do if they have never played him before. I've watched many of his games on gosugamers, I thought he was a low tier amateur then, and I still think he is now. You say under estimated, I say many people watch his games and realize hes bad. I agree with that majority. You are wrong. Goody has many flaws in his game, but he still defeats players who macro perfectly. No one cares if you think that someone is bad, if the one is winning tournaments left and right and defeating all top players (especially in TvT). I would bet on Goody in every TvT in the GSL, because you can't drop him and you can't play with mass marines against him and that's what all Koreans are doing right now. He also showed that he can take down the best Zerg players. Goody. Beating "all top players". in GSL. Look at this statistically, he has accomplished next to nothing before this tournament. He has yet to prove that he's not just some outlying statistic. Quick to jump on the bandwagon much.
Another genious who only follows GSL and thinks he actually has a clue.
EDIT: Not saying he'd beat everyone in GSL, just saying he has accomplished loads.
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For all of you talking about cheat and hack, you have clearly not followed any previous TSLs. I am certain of that the admins and people involved has put in hours and hours reviewing the games and circumstances of all the players to be sure that noone is cheating.
The detective work in TSL2 was really cool to follow, and cheaters got caugth.
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Speaking of naniwa, I think he way underrated and imo the best protoss in EU (and thus outside Korea - maybe with the exception of Tyler :D). And yes, I think he is even better than Whitera and I am a huge Whitera fan
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EPT
