Players such as Jinro, HuK, and Adelscott did not apply for this tour, so don't ask why they aren't on this list. DIMAGA, Kas, and LaLush turned applications in late so they will not appear either. Please take some time to learn who exactly applied.
Please inform yourself about who applied and who didn't.
No, he wants a tournament of highly skilled players. You know, the best players in the world?
Right.. He named all Koreans that can be found nightly watching a GSL. This isn't the GSL. That's my point, and it was never advertised to be the GSL.
"BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD" I think we all remember that. None of us are asking for a Korean dominated tournament, but almost completely excluding them turns the NASL into the North American Average Player Starleague.
If players like Darkforce, Catz, Cruncher and KawaiiRice get in, I also expect Nestea, July, MC, MVP, Boxer and Nada.
This "Best Players in the World" talk is like crying because someone lied to you. Yeah they HYPED their new league, yeah they said the best players in the world would be there. So what? All leagues in the world say that! There are great players there, some of them probably ARE amongst the best in the world. Just accept it won't be all filled with Koreans and a few foreigners (cause any other combination would still be accused of not being the best in the world) and recognize the quality of players that are being invited.
I don't want it to be filled with Koreans, but only ONE was announced among 15, some of whom are arguably not among the top players, even in their respective region. Like others, it is a little bit worrying that players like Darkforce (not even a top5 EU zerg in my book) can be invited where as some very good Koreans are cut.
Well I have read many posts saying Darforce is top5, top3 zerg in Europe, so it is clear that each person has a different book. The NASL has reasons for choosing as it does, reasons that they need not even explain (if they do, good for them).
I don't think you can name 5 better zergs than darkforce in Europe atm.
Also I think it had been very clear from the beginning that NASL take more into account than just player skill so I don't understand how this comes as a chock to some people. Did they honestly think we would have like 40 Koreans or something?
Why shouldn't it have 40 Koreans? Are they not 'The Best Players the World Has Seen'? I don't get it, it seems like you guys don't even want the best players, you just want a bunch of average (when being compared to Koreans) NA/Euros
dont know why you even asking. that would be the same like why dont we just take the number one team in the baseball league, split the players into 2 teams and watch them play all day. obviously people want to cheer for the team from their hometown or they have some other history with. they want to cheer for people that they have something in common and can identify themselves with.
especially when you want to get new people into esports they need something that they can attach to and from that point get enthusiastic for the game. even when I was watching IEM and they showed other games I was ofc cheering for a countryman..
so AAA baseball is more fun to watch then the MLB? I definitely don't know anyone in the MLB while I have known people from my high school who have went to AAA. That being said, it never made me want to watch the AAA baseball over the MLB.
No, he wants a tournament of highly skilled players. You know, the best players in the world?
Right.. He named all Koreans that can be found nightly watching a GSL. This isn't the GSL. That's my point, and it was never advertised to be the GSL.
"BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD" I think we all remember that. None of us are asking for a Korean dominated tournament, but almost completely excluding them turns the NASL into the North American Average Player Starleague.
If players like Darkforce, Catz, Cruncher and KawaiiRice get in, I also expect Nestea, July, MC, MVP, Boxer and Nada.
This "Best Players in the World" talk is like crying because someone lied to you. Yeah they HYPED their new league, yeah they said the best players in the world would be there. So what? All leagues in the world say that! There are great players there, some of them probably ARE amongst the best in the world. Just accept it won't be all filled with Koreans and a few foreigners (cause any other combination would still be accused of not being the best in the world) and recognize the quality of players that are being invited.
I don't want it to be filled with Koreans, but only ONE was announced among 15, some of whom are arguably not among the top players, even in their respective region. Like others, it is a little bit worrying that players like Darkforce (not even a top5 EU zerg in my book) can be invited where as some very good Koreans are cut.
Well I have read many posts saying Darforce is top5, top3 zerg in Europe, so it is clear that each person has a different book. The NASL has reasons for choosing as it does, reasons that they need not even explain (if they do, good for them).
I don't think you can name 5 better zergs than darkforce in Europe atm.
Also I think it had been very clear from the beginning that NASL take more into account than just player skill so I don't understand how this comes as a chock to some people. Did they honestly think we would have like 40 Koreans or something?
Why shouldn't it have 40 Koreans? Are they not 'The Best Players the World Has Seen'? I don't get it, it seems like you guys don't even want the best players, you just want a bunch of average (when being compared to Koreans) NA/Euros
dont know why you even asking. that would be the same like why dont we just take the number one team in the baseball league, split the players into 2 teams and watch them play all day. obviously people want to cheer for the team from their hometown or they have some other history with. they want to cheer for people that they have something in common and can identify themselves with.
Actually no cause sc 2 is an individual competition and the better analogy would be taking the best tennis players in the world and having 4 grand slam events or taking the best golfers in the world and having a bunch of major tournaments. However, that would obviously never work cause people don't want to see the best compete in more than 1 tournament. Wimbledon and the Masters is enough to satisfy those fans.
People also need to consider the logistics of the tournament. NASL is going to be an online tournament except for the Ro16 onwards. This means latency between servers. I for one am not interested in reading pages and pages of whines about lag affecting the Koreans' play every time I read a LP thread, as we saw in the TSL threads. And what is the point of seeing the best players play under laggy conditions? I'd rather see a tournament where people can play to their best than a tournament where half the people have 2 second latency.
On March 23 2011 09:38 Azarkon wrote: People also need to consider the logistics of the tournament. NASL is going to be an online tournament except for the Ro16 onwards. This means latency between servers. I for one am not interested in reading pages and pages of whines about lag affecting the Koreans' play every time I read a LP thread, as we saw in the TSL threads. And what is the point of seeing the best players play under laggy conditions? I'd rather see a tournament where people can play to their best than a tournament where half the people have 2 second latency.
Let me put it this way: Let's go back to Baseball. Say, for example Great Britain, starts up a serious baseball league, hoping to at one point rival the USA. Part of doing so is a a giant tournament involving all the best teams. Then they have a decision to make. Do they allow American teams in or not? American teams would be much better, and result in an overall higher standard of play.
On March 23 2011 09:24 applejuice wrote: It's apparent that the "investor buddies / fountain pennies" are attempting to capture an audience that is as much interested in rivalries and drama, than good Starcraft play.
Yes, because everybody who's not a korean or called IdrA or Jinro is a total noob. Seriously... WHAT?
In order to grow ESPORTS in the west something like NASL is the best thing to happen by far. Another tournament filled with asians is going to interest nobody that's not surfing TeamLiquid... Just think a bit further than 5 meters for one second, I mean you whiners seem to actually being able to forsee the future judging on how you already know that Moon is going to be the only korean in the tournament.
Jesus... I get way too worked up about the bullshit some people spill on this thread after only 15 out of fucking FIFTY players have been announced.
On March 23 2011 09:40 Icekommander wrote: Let me put it this way: Let's go back to Baseball. Say, for example Great Britain, starts up a serious baseball league, hoping to at one point rival the USA. Part of doing so is a a giant tournament involving all the best teams. Then they have a decision to make. Do they allow American teams in or not? American teams would be much better, and result in an overall higher standard of play.
See the history of japanese baseball for the answer to your question.
Nobody will care either for boring SC2 games between 2 americans.
Another tournament filled with asians is going to interest nobody that's not surfing TeamLiquid
but a tourney with bad games and some western nerds will? sorry but no.
I would like the idea of having our best players compete against some of the koreans. I dont know why i should watch something like iNcontroL vs CatZ? Thats freaking boring and wont entertain even people which arent from teamliquid.
On March 23 2011 09:38 Azarkon wrote: People also need to consider the logistics of the tournament. NASL is going to be an online tournament except for the Ro16 onwards. This means latency between servers. I for one am not interested in reading pages and pages of whines about lag affecting the Koreans' play every time I read a LP thread, as we saw in the TSL threads. And what is the point of seeing the best players play under laggy conditions? I'd rather see a tournament where people can play to their best than a tournament where half the people have 2 second latency.
1. There are no restrictions on Europeans, or Africans. Please rationalize this one!
2. Huk destroys on all 3 ladders. I don't see him complaining.
3. Foreign pros play on the Korean server to practice, while in North America. I won't waste my time listing examples, but will readily provide if necessary.
Moon - top WC3 player, did very well at IEM Fenix - Made TSL3, pretty strong Terran IMO Kiwi - top protoss in NA quite possibly QXC - dude is a beast, just needs to make sure to get practice time in which I imagine he will. Before he went to Europe for school he hit the top of the NA ladder I believe. DarkForce - one of Europe's top Zerg's Cruncher - In TSL3, been owning "The V", has been on top of NA ladder I believe KawaiiRice - Very good NA Terran, solid builds and I think he keeps getting better Haypro - Who on TL doesn't belong in this, seriously. Just won the Pax East posting wins over Tyler and TLO Naniwa - top Euro protoss, definitely belongs. He has been playing really well as of late too SeleCT - top NA Terran, obvious choice HasuObs - been really impressed with his play lately, just took down Huk too Catz - a lot of people seem to be questioning this, but he is a very talented and creative Zerg player. Mass queens in the NASL? Yes please. Also a fan favorite Idra - one of the best Zergs in the world, obvious choice Socke - great protoss from Europe, always impressed with his play ClouD - has been posting some very nice results as of late. Not as familiar with him, but can't argue with what he's been doing lately.
To me the obvious choices were: Idra, Socke, SeleCT, HasuObs, Haypro, Naniwa, QXC, Moon, and Kiwi.
The rest are still really good choices that will give us some great games and definitely hold their own.
On March 23 2011 09:38 Azarkon wrote: People also need to consider the logistics of the tournament. NASL is going to be an online tournament except for the Ro16 onwards. This means latency between servers. I for one am not interested in reading pages and pages of whines about lag affecting the Koreans' play every time I read a LP thread, as we saw in the TSL threads. And what is the point of seeing the best players play under laggy conditions? I'd rather see a tournament where people can play to their best than a tournament where half the people have 2 second latency.
1. There are no restrictions on Europeans, or Africans. Please rationalize this one!
2. Huk destroys on all 3 ladders. I don't see him complaining.
3. Foreign pros play on the Korean server to practice, while in North America. I won't waste my time listing examples, but will readily provide if necessary.
Huk owns all 3 ladders when he plays IN that country. he doesnt play NA ladder in korea, or vice versa. and he only laddered in Europe when he was waiting for IEM. he says the lag is too great.
On March 23 2011 08:16 hmunkey wrote: [quote] No, he wants a tournament of highly skilled players. You know, the best players in the world?
Right.. He named all Koreans that can be found nightly watching a GSL. This isn't the GSL. That's my point, and it was never advertised to be the GSL.
"BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD" I think we all remember that. None of us are asking for a Korean dominated tournament, but almost completely excluding them turns the NASL into the North American Average Player Starleague.
If players like Darkforce, Catz, Cruncher and KawaiiRice get in, I also expect Nestea, July, MC, MVP, Boxer and Nada.
This "Best Players in the World" talk is like crying because someone lied to you. Yeah they HYPED their new league, yeah they said the best players in the world would be there. So what? All leagues in the world say that! There are great players there, some of them probably ARE amongst the best in the world. Just accept it won't be all filled with Koreans and a few foreigners (cause any other combination would still be accused of not being the best in the world) and recognize the quality of players that are being invited.
I don't want it to be filled with Koreans, but only ONE was announced among 15, some of whom are arguably not among the top players, even in their respective region. Like others, it is a little bit worrying that players like Darkforce (not even a top5 EU zerg in my book) can be invited where as some very good Koreans are cut.
Well I have read many posts saying Darforce is top5, top3 zerg in Europe, so it is clear that each person has a different book. The NASL has reasons for choosing as it does, reasons that they need not even explain (if they do, good for them).
I don't think you can name 5 better zergs than darkforce in Europe atm.
Also I think it had been very clear from the beginning that NASL take more into account than just player skill so I don't understand how this comes as a chock to some people. Did they honestly think we would have like 40 Koreans or something?
Why shouldn't it have 40 Koreans? Are they not 'The Best Players the World Has Seen'? I don't get it, it seems like you guys don't even want the best players, you just want a bunch of average (when being compared to Koreans) NA/Euros
dont know why you even asking. that would be the same like why dont we just take the number one team in the baseball league, split the players into 2 teams and watch them play all day. obviously people want to cheer for the team from their hometown or they have some other history with. they want to cheer for people that they have something in common and can identify themselves with.
especially when you want to get new people into esports they need something that they can attach to and from that point get enthusiastic for the game. even when I was watching IEM and they showed other games I was ofc cheering for a countryman..
so AAA baseball is more fun to watch then the MLB? I definitely don't know anyone in the MLB while I have known people from my high school who have went to AAA. That being said, it never made me want to watch the AAA baseball over the MLB.
dont know all that much about baseball was just one example of sports for me. but I think reagarding this you cant throw everything in one bucket. it atleast most have some stage and some success or there is nothing you can get hyped about.
Why are people acting as if ClouD was a total scrub?
He's in the top 25 on the ladder looking at all 3 ladders according to sc2ranks and in the top 30 of the TLPD
Being high on the ladder means you're good at playing at home. Sorry but until he shows up and places well at tournaments I cannot say that he's earned his place in NASL except for the fact that he brings in viewership from another part of the world.
On March 23 2011 09:38 Azarkon wrote: People also need to consider the logistics of the tournament. NASL is going to be an online tournament except for the Ro16 onwards. This means latency between servers. I for one am not interested in reading pages and pages of whines about lag affecting the Koreans' play every time I read a LP thread, as we saw in the TSL threads. And what is the point of seeing the best players play under laggy conditions? I'd rather see a tournament where people can play to their best than a tournament where half the people have 2 second latency.
1. There are no restrictions on Europeans, or Africans. Please rationalize this one!
2. Huk destroys on all 3 ladders. I don't see him complaining.
3. Foreign pros play on the Korean server to practice, while in North America. I won't waste my time listing examples, but will readily provide if necessary.
Just want to say, lag from KR to NA has gotten significantly worse since the devastation in Japan which has led to internet lines being destroyed/damaged.
On March 23 2011 09:44 jmbthirteen wrote: I think these are some pretty good invites.
Moon - top WC3 player, did very well at IEM Fenix - Made TSL3, pretty strong Terran IMO Kiwi - top protoss in NA quite possibly QXC - dude is a beast, just needs to make sure to get practice time in which I imagine he will. Before he went to Europe for school he hit the top of the NA ladder I believe. DarkForce - one of Europe's top Zerg's Cruncher - In TSL3, been owning "The V", has been on top of NA ladder I believe KawaiiRice - Very good NA Terran, solid builds and I think he keeps getting better Haypro - Who on TL doesn't belong in this, seriously. Just won the Pax East posting wins over Tyler and TLO Naniwa - top Euro protoss, definitely belongs. He has been playing really well as of late too SeleCT - top NA Terran, obvious choice HasuObs - been really impressed with his play lately, just took down Huk too Catz - a lot of people seem to be questioning this, but he is a very talented and creative Zerg player. Mass queens in the NASL? Yes please. Also a fan favorite Idra - one of the best Zergs in the world, obvious choice Socke - great protoss from Europe, always impressed with his play ClouD - has been posting some very nice results as of late. Not as familiar with him, but can't argue with what he's been doing lately.
To me the obvious choices were: Idra, Socke, SeleCT, HasuObs, Haypro, Naniwa, QXC, Moon, and Kiwi.
The rest are still really good choices that will give us some great games and definitely hold their own.
Why are people acting as if ClouD was a total scrub?
He's in the top 25 on the ladder looking at all 3 ladders according to sc2ranks and in the top 30 of the TLPD
Being high on the ladder means you're good at playing at home. Sorry but until he shows up and places well at tournaments I cannot say that he's earned his place in NASL except for the fact that he brings in viewership from another part of the world.
2 Place - ESL Pro Series Germany - 2010-12-06 - $1,950.00 1 Place - Northcon - 2010-12-16 - $520.00 9-10 Place - IEM European Championship Kiev - 2011-01-23 - $400.00 13-16 Place - IEM Global Challenge Cologne - 2010-08-22 - $300.00 1 Place - Fnatic PLAY SC2 Open - 2011-02-06 - $300.00 1 Place - ESL Go4SC2 - 2010-11-07 - $260.00 1 Place - ESL Go4SC2 - 2011-02-13 - $260.00 1 Place - 4Player Close Combat Cup - 2010-10-10 - $195.00 3 Place - Project X LAN - 2011-02-05 - $150.00 1 Place - Competo Cup - 2010-09-06 - $65.00 2 Place - Heat Showmatch ClouD v. RINE - 2011-03-20 - $33.00 3 Place - TeamSpeak TL Open #12 - 2011-02-05 - $25.00
Why are people acting as if ClouD was a total scrub?
He's in the top 25 on the ladder looking at all 3 ladders according to sc2ranks and in the top 30 of the TLPD
Being high on the ladder means you're good at playing at home. Sorry but until he shows up and places well at tournaments I cannot say that he's earned his place in NASL except for the fact that he brings in viewership from another part of the world.
People already posted some of the great tournament results cloud came up with lately, not gonna repeat them. Just one recent example: He 2:0ed Mana and 3:0ed Hasuobs to win the XMG Series Finals, which actually were held at Gamescom, during IEM. Cloud deserves his spot for sure.
On March 23 2011 09:44 jmbthirteen wrote: I think these are some pretty good invites.
Moon - top WC3 player, did very well at IEM Fenix - Made TSL3, pretty strong Terran IMO Kiwi - top protoss in NA quite possibly QXC - dude is a beast, just needs to make sure to get practice time in which I imagine he will. Before he went to Europe for school he hit the top of the NA ladder I believe. DarkForce - one of Europe's top Zerg's Cruncher - In TSL3, been owning "The V", has been on top of NA ladder I believe KawaiiRice - Very good NA Terran, solid builds and I think he keeps getting better Haypro - Who on TL doesn't belong in this, seriously. Just won the Pax East posting wins over Tyler and TLO Naniwa - top Euro protoss, definitely belongs. He has been playing really well as of late too SeleCT - top NA Terran, obvious choice HasuObs - been really impressed with his play lately, just took down Huk too Catz - a lot of people seem to be questioning this, but he is a very talented and creative Zerg player. Mass queens in the NASL? Yes please. Also a fan favorite Idra - one of the best Zergs in the world, obvious choice Socke - great protoss from Europe, always impressed with his play ClouD - has been posting some very nice results as of late. Not as familiar with him, but can't argue with what he's been doing lately.
To me the obvious choices were: Idra, Socke, SeleCT, HasuObs, Haypro, Naniwa, QXC, Moon, and Kiwi.
The rest are still really good choices that will give us some great games and definitely hold their own.
To conclude. Not a bad list of invite.
Exactly, and there are still 35 more invites. We have no idea how many Koreans that will include. I hope for somewhere in the area of 10 Koreans to be in this and its still very possible that will happen.
EPT
