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Zinnwaldite
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway1567 Posts
March 03 2011 10:05 GMT
#601
On March 03 2011 19:03 bkrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 19:01 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
You know what would be awesome? TLO & IDRA CASTING :D

Are you serious!? Greg has the most uninteresting voice


IdrA is a pretty good caster,
We promise with a view to hope, but the reason to "accomplish" what we promised would be fear.
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
March 03 2011 10:05 GMT
#602
On March 03 2011 19:00 anatem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 18:49 Spectorials wrote:
On March 03 2011 18:43 JoeSchmoe wrote:
On March 03 2011 18:41 Spectorials wrote:
The decision was:

- Lose now by not attacking and letting toss get 3 bases (none of which could be attacked).

- Try to kill the toss army while the Colossus count is low and catch him out while he is moving out.

I think he made the right decision to move down.

The reason why he lost is because he scouted that late and also his spire was not done...


... you are going to catch colossus w/sentries in a narrow passage without corrupters?

please show me the replays



HI

Want to re-read and comment on the whole post?

He had 2 decisions to make: either attack and MAYBE have a chance of wittling down the Toss force OR he could not attack and let the Toss get a 3rd base which could not be attacked from that point forward in the game.

Never at any point did I say he could have a good chance of winning the fight. Idra is not dumb, the reason for attacking is because he knows it would have been close to impossible (and even MORE improbable) to win if the Toss had his 3rd base up.

The battle has to be analyzed in context of the game dude. Not just "oh no thats a bad engagement". Ofc its a bad engagement but it was a better choice than letting the Toss get a 3rd base.


how can taking a 5% chance of winning a battle to maybe win the game later be a better choice than turtling and trying to push the game to the late game ?

i remember seeing a cast about month ago of idra laddering against a guy from prime i think it was, but not sure, where he was in the exact same situation only in the southern positions, he turtled with spines, built up an army, expanded all over, went to hive, and won in the end with superbly positioned broodlords+a fuckton of corruptor+roach, ling/roach aggression on the toss fourth, and denying his fifth while wittling down his forces.

The game up until that point was COMPLETELY different. Idra was miles away from broodlords and was behind in economy. Why would you even try to compare the 2?
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
nvrs
Profile Joined October 2010
Greece481 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-03 10:07:24
March 03 2011 10:05 GMT
#603
On March 03 2011 19:01 syllogism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 18:58 walklightwhat wrote:
What a disappointing, but predictable, way to end the game. If IdrA's idea of 'strategy' is choosing the worst possible time and place to attack (with a unit composition that is pretty damned bad), it's no wonder he decided to leave Korea.

What a completely nonsensical statement and clearly intellectually dishonest as anyone should know by now there's more money to be made outside korea this year.


Barring Idra leaving Korea, i agree that he should have scouted with an ovie and never engaged that army in that place, it was a suicide move. He fell right into squirtles trap, IMHO squirtle played better.
Ultramus
Profile Joined June 2010
United States319 Posts
March 03 2011 10:05 GMT
#604
On March 03 2011 19:03 sniverty wrote:
I really admire IdrA's macro and think he's a pretty amazing player, but I think he needs to show a little more resilience when facing tough situations. The fact that he gives up/makes a poor move when he's behind is a little disappointing. I'm sure I'll be reminded by people that IdrA would've been even farther behind if he'd ignored the protoss' 3'rd base, but a head to head engagement without corruptor support against colossi seemed like a decision taken out of desperation.


He's said it himself, zerg is not a race to come back from. What strategy is there, or even gimmick that will get a zerg back in a game when he's behind?
Baking is like science for hungry people
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
March 03 2011 10:05 GMT
#605
On March 03 2011 19:05 Sebzou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 19:03 bkrow wrote:
On March 03 2011 19:01 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
You know what would be awesome? TLO & IDRA CASTING :D

Are you serious!? Greg has the most uninteresting voice


IdrA is a pretty good caster,

Knowledgable yes.. Entertaining .. NO
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
anatem
Profile Joined September 2010
Romania1369 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-03 10:10:31
March 03 2011 10:07 GMT
#606
On March 03 2011 19:05 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 19:00 anatem wrote:
On March 03 2011 18:49 Spectorials wrote:
On March 03 2011 18:43 JoeSchmoe wrote:
On March 03 2011 18:41 Spectorials wrote:
The decision was:

- Lose now by not attacking and letting toss get 3 bases (none of which could be attacked).

- Try to kill the toss army while the Colossus count is low and catch him out while he is moving out.

I think he made the right decision to move down.

The reason why he lost is because he scouted that late and also his spire was not done...


... you are going to catch colossus w/sentries in a narrow passage without corrupters?

please show me the replays



HI

Want to re-read and comment on the whole post?

He had 2 decisions to make: either attack and MAYBE have a chance of wittling down the Toss force OR he could not attack and let the Toss get a 3rd base which could not be attacked from that point forward in the game.

Never at any point did I say he could have a good chance of winning the fight. Idra is not dumb, the reason for attacking is because he knows it would have been close to impossible (and even MORE improbable) to win if the Toss had his 3rd base up.

The battle has to be analyzed in context of the game dude. Not just "oh no thats a bad engagement". Ofc its a bad engagement but it was a better choice than letting the Toss get a 3rd base.


how can taking a 5% chance of winning a battle to maybe win the game later be a better choice than turtling and trying to push the game to the late game ?

i remember seeing a cast about month ago of idra laddering against a guy from prime i think it was, but not sure, where he was in the exact same situation only in the southern positions, he turtled with spines, built up an army, expanded all over, went to hive, and won in the end with superbly positioned broodlords+a fuckton of corruptor+roach, ling/roach aggression on the toss fourth, and denying his fifth while wittling down his forces.

The game up until that point was COMPLETELY different. Idra was miles away from broodlords and was behind in economy. Why would you even try to compare the 2?


ye the games were different

i compare them to highlight the fact that it's always worth it to try, than do an allin which you know has no chance of working. and to note that idra's good enough to possibly manage it

e: spelling again
'Tis with our Judgements as our Watches, none / Go just alike, yet each believes his own.
ChApFoU
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
France2983 Posts
March 03 2011 10:07 GMT
#607
On March 03 2011 19:00 seiferoth10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 18:56 Warent wrote:
On March 03 2011 18:48 KonohaFlash wrote:
On March 03 2011 18:45 Leetley wrote:
On March 03 2011 18:39 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
People don't understand, the Protoss who was already somewhat ahead in economy would've easily won the game with his 3rd up inbetween their bases and constant Collossi harass.

But then again, people don't understand hehe ;P

Idra had 3rd base coming up and that engagement was just a terrible decision. He still had a change to win the game if he wouldn't have attacked there. Basically Idra just trashed everything.


Yea, so he should just let Squirtle get his third up, which is right next to Idra's main and allow him to slowly creep up with his army and slowly destroy Idra's base?

I'm pretty sure Idra knows what he's doing and the fact he committed to the engagement means that he had to prevent the third from going up.


Obviously the decision to attack wasn't the best decision. He might have lost later on anyway if he instead decided to let the toss get his third base up, but we will never know.


How do you know it wasn't the best decision? Do you have an alternate reality time machine to play out these two scenarios to see which decision was the best?

Yeah it's easy to be critical of progamers in hindsight, but people should think that maybe they actually know what they're doing.


You can still have an opinion, that's what threads and commentary are about. I mean the guys commenting the OSL would'nt win a single game out of 500 vs any pro and they can still have a good insight of the game. You don't have to beat Federer to tell if he's playing well or not.

If I see a pro player going pure hydra against mass collossi with sentry,stalker support, I'm still going to think it's not the best thing to do, eventhough I'm a plat n00b and he's a pro.
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper in a genius" Kang Min
Zinnwaldite
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway1567 Posts
March 03 2011 10:07 GMT
#608
On March 03 2011 19:05 bkrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 19:05 Sebzou wrote:
On March 03 2011 19:03 bkrow wrote:
On March 03 2011 19:01 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
You know what would be awesome? TLO & IDRA CASTING :D

Are you serious!? Greg has the most uninteresting voice


IdrA is a pretty good caster,

Knowledgable yes.. Entertaining .. NO


Entertaining us will be TLO's job,, IdrA will bring the knowledge,.,

i wonder what the name of that casting Archon would be,,
We promise with a view to hope, but the reason to "accomplish" what we promised would be fear.
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-03 10:08:31
March 03 2011 10:07 GMT
#609
sry wrong thread
Irrelevant
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2364 Posts
March 03 2011 10:08 GMT
#610
On March 03 2011 18:59 Bobble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 18:55 Irrelevant wrote:
Pokeman is still hanging in there, you can do it!


The only way to beat Squirtle is to find a new player called Bulbasaur.


A good lightning type would be SUPER EFFECTIVE!
Tippereth
Profile Joined December 2009
United States252 Posts
March 03 2011 10:08 GMT
#611
On March 03 2011 19:07 Sebzou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 19:05 bkrow wrote:
On March 03 2011 19:05 Sebzou wrote:
On March 03 2011 19:03 bkrow wrote:
On March 03 2011 19:01 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
You know what would be awesome? TLO & IDRA CASTING :D

Are you serious!? Greg has the most uninteresting voice


IdrA is a pretty good caster,

Knowledgable yes.. Entertaining .. NO


Entertaining us will be TLO's job,, IdrA will bring the knowledge,.,

i wonder what the name of that casting Archon would be,,

IdrO.
DrainX
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Sweden3187 Posts
March 03 2011 10:10 GMT
#612
On March 03 2011 19:07 hugman wrote:
sry wrong thread

Please don't let that happen again
nvrs
Profile Joined October 2010
Greece481 Posts
March 03 2011 10:10 GMT
#613
On March 03 2011 19:05 Ultramus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 19:03 sniverty wrote:
I really admire IdrA's macro and think he's a pretty amazing player, but I think he needs to show a little more resilience when facing tough situations. The fact that he gives up/makes a poor move when he's behind is a little disappointing. I'm sure I'll be reminded by people that IdrA would've been even farther behind if he'd ignored the protoss' 3'rd base, but a head to head engagement without corruptor support against colossi seemed like a decision taken out of desperation.


He's said it himself, zerg is not a race to come back from. What strategy is there, or even gimmick that will get a zerg back in a game when he's behind?


Well to be honest he has said many things about Zerg in various phases of the game (from Beta to now) and he has not always been correct, remeber what race the first two guys that won the GSL were playing while he was saying that Zerg have no chance vs T and P back then?
I agree that it's very difficult for Zerg to come back but it's nto impossible, after all there is always a chance that your opponent will make some mistake!
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
March 03 2011 10:10 GMT
#614
DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT JINRO!

+ Show Spoiler [JINRO SPOILER] +
He just took game 1; HongUn went voidrays; got caught transferring probes and Jinro capitalised
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
gozima
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada602 Posts
March 03 2011 10:11 GMT
#615
On March 03 2011 19:01 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:
You know what would be awesome? TLO & IDRA CASTING :D


For the "hardcore" SC2 fan, sure, watching IdrA do some commentary would probably be entertaining, but for an event like IEM, where there are probably a lot more casual SC2 fans who have no idea who IdrA is, it would be terrible.

The guy is so monotone and never ever shows any emotion... EVER.

I'd link the IdrA emotion chart, but I can't be bothered.
KiNGxXx
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
7928 Posts
March 03 2011 10:11 GMT
#616
On March 03 2011 19:10 bkrow wrote:
DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT JINRO!

+ Show Spoiler [JINRO SPOILER] +
He just took game 1; HongUn went voidrays; got caught transferring probes and Jinro capitalised

Even if you put it in spoiler tags, why do you post it here? Everybody who's interesting in can follow the right thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=197981
MKP|Maru|TaeJa|Mvp|Polt|INnoVation|GuMiho|Bomber|GoOdy|TeamTerran
Alphaes
Profile Joined April 2010
United States651 Posts
March 03 2011 10:11 GMT
#617
On March 03 2011 19:10 bkrow wrote:
DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT JINRO!

+ Show Spoiler [JINRO SPOILER] +
He just took game 1; HongUn went voidrays; got caught transferring probes and Jinro capitalised


Don't hijack threads please.
What this
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
March 03 2011 10:12 GMT
#618
On March 03 2011 19:11 KiNGxXx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2011 19:10 bkrow wrote:
DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT JINRO!

+ Show Spoiler [JINRO SPOILER] +
He just took game 1; HongUn went voidrays; got caught transferring probes and Jinro capitalised

Even if you put it in spoiler tags, why do you post it here? Everybody who's interesting in can follow the right thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=197981

Because people have brains.. don't read if you don't want to know; do if you do..
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
Animostas
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States568 Posts
March 03 2011 10:12 GMT
#619
Real shame to see Idra out. I was thinking that he was a favorite to win the tournament.
Ultramus
Profile Joined June 2010
United States319 Posts
March 03 2011 10:12 GMT
#620
i feel immensely terrible for Idra. How frustrating can it be playing at this level as zerg? I honestly know of ZERO pro zergs who are sitting around "Yeah zerg is FINE" and Idra has been playibng against the best people and has a higher chance to play against abusive builds do to his reputation.
Baking is like science for hungry people
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