EPT[IEM] Day 3 - Page 30
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Wuffey
252 Posts
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Broodwich
United States393 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:54 Ultramus wrote: wat? Moon did all-ins every game. And honestly? I think that's the best way to play ZvP right now. Late game toss is ludicrous. The fact that idra barely won game 4 is evidence of that, 3 base fully saturated vs toss on 2, and he still nearly lost. Don't ask me why Toss has the counter to the counter to the counter of the counter to hydras, which you can force by going SG anyways. Pretty obvious there are issues here. Moon has been ignoring them by Allinning :x I'm not making any comments on ZvP balance, as per the rules, but I will say that specifically for Greg his macro heavy containment strategy with late game focused play is going to be a struggle against Protoss, which is so strong late game. As the game has changed to the collo / VR mix in ZvP a lot (especially against his play style), he's going to have to make the adjustments to his play. He's good enough to do that, he's just not there yet. | ||
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:56 Warent wrote: Obviously the decision to attack wasn't the best decision. He might have lost later on anyway if he instead decided to let the toss get his third base up, but we will never know. How do you know it wasn't the best decision? Do you have an alternate reality time machine to play out these two scenarios to see which decision was the best? Yeah it's easy to be critical of progamers in hindsight, but people should think that maybe they actually know what they're doing. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:58 walklightwhat wrote: What a disappointing, but predictable, way to end the game. If IdrA's idea of 'strategy' is choosing the worst possible time and place to attack (with a unit composition that is pretty damned bad), it's no wonder he decided to leave Korea. uhhh overreaction much? | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
Yes of course, forgive me.  | ||
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Titorelli
2492 Posts
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Ultramus
United States319 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:58 Irrelevant wrote: Zerg's issue with every match up, is hes 99.9% predictable in everything he does but makes up for it with great mechanics, when he runs into people that know how to exploit his game he loses. Fixed | ||
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
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anatem
Romania1369 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:49 Spectorials wrote: HI Want to re-read and comment on the whole post? He had 2 decisions to make: either attack and MAYBE have a chance of wittling down the Toss force OR he could not attack and let the Toss get a 3rd base which could not be attacked from that point forward in the game. Never at any point did I say he could have a good chance of winning the fight. Idra is not dumb, the reason for attacking is because he knows it would have been close to impossible (and even MORE improbable) to win if the Toss had his 3rd base up. The battle has to be analyzed in context of the game dude. Not just "oh no thats a bad engagement". Ofc its a bad engagement but it was a better choice than letting the Toss get a 3rd base. how can taking a 5% chance of winning a battle to maybe win the game later be a better choice than turtling and trying to push the game to the late game ? i remember seeing a cast about month ago of idra laddering against a guy from prime i think it was, but not sure, where he was in the exact same situation only in the southern positions, he turtled with spines, built up an army, expanded all over, went to hive, and won in the end with superbly positioned broodlords+a fuckton of corruptor+roach, ling/roach aggression on the toss fourth, and denying his fifth while wittling down his forces. idra just has this thing where he doesn't even want to play the game to its conclusion when he's facing an opponent who he believes to be very good, and finds himself in an unadvantageous position, remember the insta-gg to the bunker block by jinro (note that was a far worse position for him, but this game against squirtle was definitely winnable) i'm sorry he didn't go through, he's an amazing player, and i was torn between my rooting for this great toss vs. rooting for the code s foreigner. but in the end, the player who played better won, all there is to this match edit: spelling | ||
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otacon
Germany45 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:31 otacon wrote: All replays of IdrA vs. Squirtle added: http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season5/hanover/sc2/playoffs/match/21702133/For all people, who can't watch these matches live, we will continue to upload and offer a spoiler free overview of all replays here: http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season5/hanover/news/151972/ Replay package wip. | ||
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ChApFoU
France2983 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:46 Angelbelow wrote: Absolutely false. Squirtle would have destroyed his main by abusing that back way. Ive seen Incontrol do it over and over on his stream. Its pretty rough for Zerg. IdrA was already behind after his roach bust got scouted. Squirtles army was already pretty scary too. If you dont believe me at least trust what TLO has to say. He summed it up perfectly. I think TLO explained why Idra made that decision and how it made sense during the game, he didn't say that was the best possible decision to make in that situation. At least that what I remember. I believe that if Idra had maphack 10 seconds before the engagement he wouldn't have attacked, that's just my opinion. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:58 walklightwhat wrote: What a disappointing, but predictable, way to end the game. If IdrA's idea of 'strategy' is choosing the worst possible time and place to attack (with a unit composition that is pretty damned bad), it's no wonder he decided to leave Korea. What a completely nonsensical statement and clearly intellectually dishonest as anyone should know by now there's more money to be made outside korea this year. | ||
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PepperoniPiZZa
Sierra Leone1660 Posts
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GP
United States1056 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:55 Gunman_csz wrote: Yo do realize zerg needs massive economy advantage to overcome the protoss deathball, he was already behind when the third went up. I know, my point was choose a better position to all-in, that last engagement was an all-in and it was in the worst possible spot to engage. | ||
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sniverty
United States72 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:01 PepperoniPiZZa wrote: You know what would be awesome? TLO & IDRA CASTING :D Are you serious!? Greg has the most uninteresting voice  | ||
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Zinnwaldite
Norway1567 Posts
On March 03 2011 18:59 Bobble wrote: The only way to beat Squirtle is to find a new player called Bulbasaur. A lightning pokemon will oneshot him though,., we need a Zaptoss(Zapdos) xD | ||
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:03 GP wrote: I know, my point was choose a better position to all-in, that last engagement was an all-in and it was in the worst possible spot to engage. If he gave up that position, the Toss would be killing his base while camping his back ramp which is even more of a horrible position than that last engagement. | ||
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cHicKeLoR
Germany559 Posts
? and i mean idra as player not rotter. but he's esl commentator.. so why not :D | ||
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KiNGxXx
7928 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/598/mase.jpg) Well, at least Mase (on the right)! Haha! | ||
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