EPT[IEM] Day 3 - Page 33
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TheKing
Australia186 Posts
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Grettin
42417 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:26 TheKing wrote: Anyone have a link of the stream, I can't find any starcraft ones... they are all counter strike. There isn't any matches going on. CS stream > the SC2 stream. | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:25 Ultramus wrote: What? that was a game where the zerg came back from behind? That was a fairly even game, and that was Jinro making a HUGE mistake that no pro should ever have happen to them. And come on, if anyone watched the finals of the first two GSLs, it was pretty obvious the opponents played poorly. Ok - i am not going to bother arguing anymore.. There are 2 opinions.. yours is one of them - he knows he is done and he wants to get out quick and focus on the next game; and then the other is "a true competitor should battle until the end" .. I am not saying either one is better or worse; from a fans perspective the latter is almost definately more entertaining but as you are most likely going to say - he isn't playing for the fans, he is playing to win.. So either way is fine by me - but as a spectator i'd rather he try stick it out because at the end of the day pro's shouldnt make mistakes but sometimes shit just happens  | ||
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Alphaes
United States651 Posts
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DJShippo
Germany4 Posts
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:10 nvrs wrote: Well to be honest he has said many things about Zerg in various phases of the game (from Beta to now) and he has not always been correct, remeber what race the first two guys that won the GSL were playing while he was saying that Zerg have no chance vs T and P back then? I agree that it's very difficult for Zerg to come back but it's nto impossible, after all there is always a chance that your opponent will make some mistake! I believe both fruit and nestea have said during their GSLs that they have no chance against their training partners. Nestea said it in GSL3 already he can't win mvp, and fruit said during GSL1 that he wins 10% of his zvt vs his training buddies. I don't think there's a single zerg who can claim zerg was somehow very strong then, mostly the GSL winners so far have just been outshining the playerpool by skill, not race. That includes MC/MVP also. One thing to add about idra game5 is that if he's also surrendering the "remax" space he needs. He's obviously going to lose the next fight and is required to survive because of reinforcements like in scrap game. If he waits until squirtle pushes from his backdoor, all his reinforcements just pop separately in front of the deathball to die instantly. It seems like bad choice to fight there, but there's only bad options for zerg there. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:20 bkrow wrote: Jinro vs Check last GSL - Jinro seemed to be slipping into a macro dominant role .. fucked his wall up and check flooded him with lings --> and ended up winning the game.. Not a COMPLETE game changer as it happened early on but Jinro was looking very very comfortable.. I am not saying zerg is a comeback race. But screw ups happened. In fact, if IdrA was in Fruitdealer's position in GSL against top game 3, i am 99 percent sure he would have gg-ed. We knew what happened because Fruitdealer stayed and fought that game out. That game was+ the biggest zerg comeback game of all time. Did Top screw up big time? Absolutely. Obviously to make a comeback the opponent must make more mistakes than you do. Is it likely that squirtle will screw up? No. Possible? Yes. | ||
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DJShippo
Germany4 Posts
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GTR
51712 Posts
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sniverty
United States72 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:25 kNyTTyM wrote: Let me try to really simplify why making a comeback is too hard for zerg. To comeback you really have three chances. First is winning a major turning battle, second is overexpanding, third is winning several small skirmishes. In brood war that third option was more prevalent and you even had a forth option of rushing a game changing tech (defiler, carrier, etc). So option 1 really doesn't work too well in sc2 anymore. Getting 7 bases up as zerg doesn't really do much because saturating 3 bases with minerals already puts you at the maximum number of drones you want. Also with that protoss position at 12, any hint of low unit count from idra scouted via obs will result in an instant attack into the main. 5 second attack distance gives no time to play greedy. In this case protoss is going to play defensive until 200/200 unless he sees no units from zerg. Another option is winning a key battle by overinvesting in units and hoping protoss makes a bad attack. Protoss can prevent this loss by turtling to 200/200. Lastly is using small cost effective skirmishes until you make up your disadvantage. Zerg really doesn't have this option except for drop and countering. Protoss defend this by playing defensive and turtling. So now what option does zerg have outside of these ways? Banking on better mechanics like in brood war just doesn't work. I know this is extremely simplified but I can't really think of any other way. I know it's hard, perhaps even nearly impossible. I never said that zerg can easily make a comeback against such a powerful army. All I said was, IdrA needs to try. Protoss' strength lies in it's exceptionally powerful ball-of-death. But that can also be seen as a weakness, those units need to stick close to each other for maximum efficiency. So why not attack at different places? A poke at Squirtle's natural would've done one of two things. 1. Squirtle says "screw it" and roflstomps IdrA's main and natural, but also leaving his main open to IdrA's army, potentially losing all unit producing capability. 2. Squirtle retreats to his natural with some warp-ins and slow colossi. So, why would IdrA not try poking at the natural? If he thinks he's going to lose, might as well make it hard for the protoss, make it such that you don't face the protoss in a head to head battle. Would you face a really strong army head on, or would you attack where he is weakest and go for a base trade? | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:35 sniverty wrote: I know it's hard, perhaps even nearly impossible. I never said that zerg can easily make a comeback against such a powerful army. All I said was, IdrA needs to try. Protoss' strength lies in it's exceptionally powerful ball-of-death. But that can also be seen as a weakness, those units need to stick close to each other for maximum efficiency. So why not attack at different places? A poke at Squirtle's natural would've done one of two things. 1. Squirtle says "screw it" and roflstomps IdrA's main and natural, but also leaving his main open to IdrA's army, potentially losing all unit producing capability. 2. Squirtle retreats to his natural with some warp-ins and slow colossi. So, why would IdrA not try poking at the natural? If he thinks he's going to lose, might as well make it hard for the protoss, make it such that you don't face the protoss in a head to head battle. Would you face a really strong army head on, or would you attack where he is weakest and go for a base trade? You act like IdrA instantly left the instant he saw a colossus. He DID try to kill the nexus, and failed, so he left. Stop trying to say he just rolled over and died. | ||
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SushilS
2115 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:35 sniverty wrote: IdrA needs your wisdom, Sun Tzu! GG! I know it's hard, perhaps even nearly impossible. I never said that zerg can easily make a comeback against such a powerful army. All I said was, IdrA needs to try. Protoss' strength lies in it's exceptionally powerful ball-of-death. But that can also be seen as a weakness, those units need to stick close to each other for maximum efficiency. So why not attack at different places? A poke at Squirtle's natural would've done one of two things. 1. Squirtle says "screw it" and roflstomps IdrA's main and natural, but also leaving his main open to IdrA's army, potentially losing all unit producing capability. 2. Squirtle retreats to his natural with some warp-ins and slow colossi. So, why would IdrA not try poking at the natural? If he thinks he's going to lose, might as well make it hard for the protoss, make it such that you don't face the protoss in a head to head battle. Would you face a really strong army head on, or would you attack where he is weakest and go for a base trade? | ||
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Bobble
Australia1493 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:31 DJShippo wrote: apparently only the russian SC2 stream shows the match between moon and moonglade right now... i just tuned in dont know how many games have been played yet but the last game was won by moon As said, it's a set of games that wasn't streamed yesterday, rather, they played the much more important tiebreaker matches, Socke vs Fenix and SjoW vs Squirtle. | ||
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ApolloSC2
United Kingdom804 Posts
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Greekarmy
Greece66 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:39 d.Apollo wrote: We are going into the game straight after this cs game? That's what the schedule at their site says, yes. | ||
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Imhotep
Sweden267 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:35 sniverty wrote: I know it's hard, perhaps even nearly impossible. I never said that zerg can easily make a comeback against such a powerful army. All I said was, IdrA needs to try. Protoss' strength lies in it's exceptionally powerful ball-of-death. But that can also be seen as a weakness, those units need to stick close to each other for maximum efficiency. So why not attack at different places? A poke at Squirtle's natural would've done one of two things. 1. Squirtle says "screw it" and roflstomps IdrA's main and natural, but also leaving his main open to IdrA's army, potentially losing all unit producing capability. 2. Squirtle retreats to his natural with some warp-ins and slow colossi. So, why would IdrA not try poking at the natural? If he thinks he's going to lose, might as well make it hard for the protoss, make it such that you don't face the protoss in a head to head battle. Would you face a really strong army head on, or would you attack where he is weakest and go for a base trade? Squitle had his army right next to Idra's main. Idra has a very slow army with roaches and hydras off creep. By the time his army has arrived at Squirtle's natural, Squirlte would've plown through his main and be working on his natural. | ||
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sniverty
United States72 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:38 Mailing wrote: You act like IdrA instantly left the instant he saw a colossus. He DID try to kill the nexus, and failed, so he left. Stop trying to say he just rolled over and died. Huh? He didn't even touch the nexus. His overlord scouted the nexus being put down, he started breaking the rocks and then got his entire army in the narrow corridor only to find Squirtle's army waiting for him. Do you think Squirtle wouldn't have anticipated an attack from the Zerg when his nexus was scouted? That's the whole point of ZvP, to deny the third, isn't it? | ||
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arctics86
Germany797 Posts
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Leavzou
France156 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:38 Mailing wrote: You act like IdrA instantly left the instant he saw a colossus. He DID try to kill the nexus, and failed, so he left. Stop trying to say he just rolled over and died. Nothing else to say. IdrA tried to win before the "deadline" of the 3rd, but he failed, thats it... | ||
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Belegurth
165 Posts
On March 03 2011 19:39 d.Apollo wrote: We are going into the game straight after this cs game? why aren't you there d.Apollo? | ||
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