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A marine costs 50 minerals and 1 supply .. with MULEs you can pump a lot of them without getting supply blocked or mineral blocked. To defend against this a protoss needs sentries which cost the same amount of minerals as a marine and an extra 100 gas and takes 2 supply. And all the sentry does is stall them. Zealots can't catch anything before dying without charge.
Protoss is strong late game, Terran is strongest early game and that's why the top players are taking advantage of this fact. Both Toss and Zerg want to Macro and get the tech up, the T3 up etc ... Terrans somehow find it difficult to play against a late game Toss or Zerg.
I guess that's why MKP was saying BC's need a buff or something. MC understands the early game ( early game gosu ) and that's why he rarely loses to Terran cheese and can move the game out of the early game where Toss becomes less vulnerable or even stronger than Terran. This is the current state of the game. And it's also why PvZ seems more closer.
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On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:03 De4ngus wrote:
Sigh..... I wonder when other protosses will stop doing greedy builds and play more like MC -_- 3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_-
If MC is winning 90% of the match up, then if 20% all games are one base all-in games then MC is still on 50% in this scenario. I'm not going to prove to you that at least 20% of games on ladder are one base all-ins, I thought that would be pretty obvious.
I could easily claim that your brain does not exists, are you going to cut your skull open to prove to me you have a brain?
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MC (a.k.a Jang MinChul) has improved a lot over time ( GSL 1 r 64, GSL2 r32 and GSL 3 1st place). On the other hand, MK has also improved a lot in TVP since his last lost to MC earlier this month. Need to give credit to MK. Don't simply repeat "MC will beat MK if he plays". That's not predictable at all.
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On December 24 2010 22:33 bearhug wrote:
MC (a.k.a Jang MinChul) has improved a lot over time ( GSL 1 r 64, GSL2 r32 and GSL 3 1st place). On the other hand, MK has also improved a lot in TVP since his last lost to MC earlier this month. Need to give credit to MK. Don't simply repeat "MC will beat MK if he plays". That's not predictable at all.
The only difference really is he's expanded to Marine Tank play on certain maps. Other than that, he's pretty much the same.
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On December 24 2010 22:25 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:25 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:23 dokugami wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) Like I said, they're good for zoning and tanking hits. Keeps the heat off of Sentries and Stalkers. Combined with some good forcefields to keep marines from retreating, Zealots can close the gap and actually do pretty good dps. HongUn put down some ok forcefields. It would've been nice if he had some Zealots. I don't think he actually had to engage right then and there where the destructible rocks used to be either. I would say it comes down to micro and MKP was clearly better at that. Your acting like siege mode was never going to arrive, had FoxeR seen anything threatening he could have waited 10-15 seconds then push.
You're acting like there's nothing toss can do about siege tanks in siege mode. By the time siege is up you can have immortals which are even better at tanking than zealots and do insane bonus damage vs armored so they can clean them up pretty quickly. Someone in this thread referenced oGsMC breaking a siege tank and bunker contain in game 2 of the GSL finals. That should be proof enough that it's doable.
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On December 24 2010 22:27 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:24 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:03 De4ngus wrote:
Sigh..... I wonder when other protosses will stop doing greedy builds and play more like MC -_- 3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving. so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o The solution is to go a tech heavy opening, however that leaves you completely open to FoxeR's normal style of play (rushing). That mixed with the wide ramp forces HongUn to go gateway heavy which plays right into Marine + Tank. OHHH how Terran is perfect Balance.
Why are you complaining? This isn`t really a serious event. So when oGsMC rolls over every terran AND marineking in GSL (a big tournament) should terrans cry ohhhh the IMBA! WHAT CAN WE DO?!
The terrans (MVP and MKP) outplayed their opponents, simple as that. Not every player is equal in skill.
And hongun picked that map, so it wasn`t an issue for him.
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On December 24 2010 22:36 dokugami wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:25 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:25 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:23 dokugami wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) Like I said, they're good for zoning and tanking hits. Keeps the heat off of Sentries and Stalkers. Combined with some good forcefields to keep marines from retreating, Zealots can close the gap and actually do pretty good dps. HongUn put down some ok forcefields. It would've been nice if he had some Zealots. I don't think he actually had to engage right then and there where the destructible rocks used to be either. I would say it comes down to micro and MKP was clearly better at that. Your acting like siege mode was never going to arrive, had FoxeR seen anything threatening he could have waited 10-15 seconds then push. You're acting like there's nothing toss can do about siege tanks in siege mode. By the time siege is up you can have immortals which are even better at tanking than zealots and do insane bonus damage vs armored so they can clean them up pretty quickly. Someone in this thread referenced oGsMC breaking a siege tank and bunker contain in game 2 of the GSL finals. That should be proof enough that it's doable.
Pay attention to the thread.
On December 24 2010 22:27 FataLe wrote:
The solution is to go a tech heavy opening, however that leaves you completely open to FoxeR's normal style of play (rushing). That mixed with the wide ramp forces HongUn to go gateway heavy which plays right into Marine + Tank. OHHH how Terran is perfect Balance.
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Pretty sad LR thread here, I think all three days had huge whiners for "how is it possible to stop x if you're y?!!!!! YOU CAN'T"...guess what, these builds are changing all the time, literally a few meta shifts in a single month, people figure it out. If it takes like three months and they still can't...maybe they'll nerf it like the reapers.
edit: also, all of you also cried when MC won against all his T opponents..."how can we stop an opening like MC's...we can't."
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On December 24 2010 22:38 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:27 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:24 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:
[quote]
3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving. so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o The solution is to go a tech heavy opening, however that leaves you completely open to FoxeR's normal style of play (rushing). That mixed with the wide ramp forces HongUn to go gateway heavy which plays right into Marine + Tank. OHHH how Terran is perfect Balance. Why are you complaining? This isn`t really a serious event. So when oGsMC rolls over every terran AND marineking in GSL (a big tournament) should terrans cry ohhhh the IMBA! WHAT CAN WE DO?! The terrans (MVP and MKP) outplayed their opponents, simple as that. Not every player is equal in skill. And hongun picked that map, so it wasn`t an issue for him.
Because 1 guy defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced?
Your right not every player is equal in skill, and it seems to me not every race is equal either.
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On December 24 2010 22:40 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:38 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 24 2010 22:27 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:24 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:
[quote]
Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving. so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o The solution is to go a tech heavy opening, however that leaves you completely open to FoxeR's normal style of play (rushing). That mixed with the wide ramp forces HongUn to go gateway heavy which plays right into Marine + Tank. OHHH how Terran is perfect Balance. Why are you complaining? This isn`t really a serious event. So when oGsMC rolls over every terran AND marineking in GSL (a big tournament) should terrans cry ohhhh the IMBA! WHAT CAN WE DO?! The terrans (MVP and MKP) outplayed their opponents, simple as that. Not every player is equal in skill. And hongun picked that map, so it wasn`t an issue for him. Because 1 guy defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced? Your right not every player is equal in skill, and it seems to me not every race is equal either.
MVP and MKP defied the norm because PROTOSS is so IMBA!!! how can we stop MC!!!
see what I did there?
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On December 24 2010 22:38 PartyBiscuit wrote:
Pretty sad LR thread here, I think all three days had huge whiners for "how is it possible to stop x if you're y?!!!!! YOU CAN'T"...guess what, these builds are changing all the time, literally a few meta shifts in a single month, people figure it out. If it takes like three months and they still can't...maybe they'll nerf it like the reapers.
edit: also, all of you also cried when MC won against all his T opponents..."how can we stop an opening like MC's...we can't."
err, I think everyone knows that MC's openers are beatable, heck I even know the counters. It's just not "normal" for Terran to go them.
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On December 24 2010 22:42 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:38 PartyBiscuit wrote:
Pretty sad LR thread here, I think all three days had huge whiners for "how is it possible to stop x if you're y?!!!!! YOU CAN'T"...guess what, these builds are changing all the time, literally a few meta shifts in a single month, people figure it out. If it takes like three months and they still can't...maybe they'll nerf it like the reapers.
edit: also, all of you also cried when MC won against all his T opponents..."how can we stop an opening like MC's...we can't." err, I think everyone knows that MC's openers are beatable, heck I even know the counters. It's just not "normal" for Terran to go them.
And MarineKings isn`t beatable? Marineking hasn`t won any GSL and got knocked out by MC. I am sure his builds are beatable.
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On December 24 2010 22:35 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:33 bearhug wrote:
MC (a.k.a Jang MinChul) has improved a lot over time ( GSL 1 r 64, GSL2 r32 and GSL 3 1st place). On the other hand, MK has also improved a lot in TVP since his last lost to MC earlier this month. Need to give credit to MK. Don't simply repeat "MC will beat MK if he plays". That's not predictable at all. The only difference really is he's expanded to Marine Tank play on certain maps. Other than that, he's pretty much the same.
Nope. I don't want to say too much. but I find that he built the barrack earlier and closer to his main base. and he wall in with a second depo around his base. that's one of the many details I noticed which are different from what he did in his previous games.
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On December 24 2010 22:40 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:38 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 24 2010 22:27 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:24 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:
[quote]
Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving. so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o The solution is to go a tech heavy opening, however that leaves you completely open to FoxeR's normal style of play (rushing). That mixed with the wide ramp forces HongUn to go gateway heavy which plays right into Marine + Tank. OHHH how Terran is perfect Balance. Why are you complaining? This isn`t really a serious event. So when oGsMC rolls over every terran AND marineking in GSL (a big tournament) should terrans cry ohhhh the IMBA! WHAT CAN WE DO?! The terrans (MVP and MKP) outplayed their opponents, simple as that. Not every player is equal in skill. And hongun picked that map, so it wasn`t an issue for him. Because 1 guy defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced? Your right not every player is equal in skill, and it seems to me not every race is equal either.
You can say that the other way around too...If MKP defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced?
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On December 24 2010 22:45 sadyque wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:40 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:38 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 24 2010 22:27 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:24 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:
[quote]
MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving. so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o The solution is to go a tech heavy opening, however that leaves you completely open to FoxeR's normal style of play (rushing). That mixed with the wide ramp forces HongUn to go gateway heavy which plays right into Marine + Tank. OHHH how Terran is perfect Balance. Why are you complaining? This isn`t really a serious event. So when oGsMC rolls over every terran AND marineking in GSL (a big tournament) should terrans cry ohhhh the IMBA! WHAT CAN WE DO?! The terrans (MVP and MKP) outplayed their opponents, simple as that. Not every player is equal in skill. And hongun picked that map, so it wasn`t an issue for him. Because 1 guy defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced? Your right not every player is equal in skill, and it seems to me not every race is equal either. You can say that the other way around too...If MKP defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced?
He did the same thing 5 Bo3's in a row, no TOP Zerg had an answer to it. On the flipside MC had variety in his play and left a lot up to chance when not going robo. See how there's a slight difference?
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On December 24 2010 22:43 bearhug wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:35 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:33 bearhug wrote:
MC (a.k.a Jang MinChul) has improved a lot over time ( GSL 1 r 64, GSL2 r32 and GSL 3 1st place). On the other hand, MK has also improved a lot in TVP since his last lost to MC earlier this month. Need to give credit to MK. Don't simply repeat "MC will beat MK if he plays". That's not predictable at all. The only difference really is he's expanded to Marine Tank play on certain maps. Other than that, he's pretty much the same. Nope. I don't want to say too much. but I find that he built the barrack earlier and closer to his main base. and he wall in with a second depo around his base. that's one of the many details I noticed which are different from what he did in his previous games.
A bit more cheese proof I guess, nothing groundbreaking to suggest him and MC somewhat even now.
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Why do people bring MC's name into this? He didn't play today did he?
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On December 24 2010 22:50 ZeNd0kUn wrote:
Why do people bring MC's name into this? He didn't play today did he?
They mentioned MC's name again and again and again because he won GSL3. Funny that no one talked about him when he lost twice w/ 0:2 in GSL1 and 2 (r64 & r32 respectively).
MC won: "MC is sc2 god".
MC lost : " Did he? I don't know man".
MK won: " His games are so boring".
MK lost : " He is destroyed by MC.... He is destroyed by MC...... .............. He will be destroyed by MC...... He will be destroyed by MC.... ..............."
Fair enough.
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On December 24 2010 22:46 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:45 sadyque wrote:On December 24 2010 22:40 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:38 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 24 2010 22:27 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:24 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:
[quote]
ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:
[quote]
This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving. so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o The solution is to go a tech heavy opening, however that leaves you completely open to FoxeR's normal style of play (rushing). That mixed with the wide ramp forces HongUn to go gateway heavy which plays right into Marine + Tank. OHHH how Terran is perfect Balance. Why are you complaining? This isn`t really a serious event. So when oGsMC rolls over every terran AND marineking in GSL (a big tournament) should terrans cry ohhhh the IMBA! WHAT CAN WE DO?! The terrans (MVP and MKP) outplayed their opponents, simple as that. Not every player is equal in skill. And hongun picked that map, so it wasn`t an issue for him. Because 1 guy defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced? Your right not every player is equal in skill, and it seems to me not every race is equal either. You can say that the other way around too...If MKP defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced? He did the same thing 5 Bo3's in a row, no TOP Zerg had an answer to it. On the flipside MC had variety in his play and left a lot up to chance when not going robo. See how there's a slight difference?
Its not like MKP or MVP are some middle diamond nubs who beat top Z/P players....
They both played their strengths and went for their most confortable strategies....dont see whats wrong with that. Tell blizz to make more strategies viable then we will see less marine/tank vs Z and less all ins vs P.
I dont really see why everyone is commenting on these games. Prolly FD/Tester/Nestea are on the ladder right now beating the crap out of other top tier terrans...Im pretty sure that if they lost 80% of their games vs T blizz would have done something by now. All that happend here was 2 dudes going on a killing spree at their respective levels.
Tell me none of you ever won 10-15 straight games with your race?
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On December 24 2010 22:58 sadyque wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:46 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:45 sadyque wrote:On December 24 2010 22:40 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:38 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 24 2010 22:27 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:24 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:
[quote]
Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_-
[quote]
Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving. so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o The solution is to go a tech heavy opening, however that leaves you completely open to FoxeR's normal style of play (rushing). That mixed with the wide ramp forces HongUn to go gateway heavy which plays right into Marine + Tank. OHHH how Terran is perfect Balance. Why are you complaining? This isn`t really a serious event. So when oGsMC rolls over every terran AND marineking in GSL (a big tournament) should terrans cry ohhhh the IMBA! WHAT CAN WE DO?! The terrans (MVP and MKP) outplayed their opponents, simple as that. Not every player is equal in skill. And hongun picked that map, so it wasn`t an issue for him. Because 1 guy defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced? Your right not every player is equal in skill, and it seems to me not every race is equal either. You can say that the other way around too...If MKP defies the norm that means the matchup is balanced? He did the same thing 5 Bo3's in a row, no TOP Zerg had an answer to it. On the flipside MC had variety in his play and left a lot up to chance when not going robo. See how there's a slight difference? Tell me none of you ever won 10-15 straight games with your race?
Not against the worlds elite in a dominating fashion.
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EPT
