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On December 24 2010 22:16 Essentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:15 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:12 Essentia wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 Refreshe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:08 Essentia wrote:
i guess ppl consider just 1 expansion as "greedy"
obv every game should just be 1 base all ins Thats starcraft 2 for you, and it's not hard to do. You saw Idra, a Code S-player, lose to some 2.7k diamond player from an all in. It's just too strong. ya ur right. the 2 games he lost were to all ins.........its sad but true. expanding is just a bad play in sc2 Expanding is only a bad play if they can kill you with their all-in, so by definition if your opponent does a bad all-in or expands himself, you can safely expand, so your statement is false. whats zerg suppose to do then? just do 1 base play the whole game?
And the scary thing is if that terran player just sieged his tanks on jungle basin, he prob would have won. =o
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On December 24 2010 22:16 Essentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:15 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:12 Essentia wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 Refreshe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:08 Essentia wrote:
i guess ppl consider just 1 expansion as "greedy"
obv every game should just be 1 base all ins Thats starcraft 2 for you, and it's not hard to do. You saw Idra, a Code S-player, lose to some 2.7k diamond player from an all in. It's just too strong. ya ur right. the 2 games he lost were to all ins.........its sad but true. expanding is just a bad play in sc2 Expanding is only a bad play if they can kill you with their all-in, so by definition if your opponent does a bad all-in or expands himself, you can safely expand, so your statement is false. whats zerg suppose to do then? just do 1 base play the whole game?
LOL, owned.
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On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:03 De4ngus wrote:
Sigh..... I wonder when other protosses will stop doing greedy builds and play more like MC -_- 3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted)
But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only.
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*sigh* So just so I'm clear, MC slaughtering GSL season 3 means absolutely nothing, just a fluke occuring at the highest level (*drinks*) tournament so far; Terrans doing all-kills (not winning all games mind) in a funsy holiday tournament with a fairly small prize and a fairly random lineup, where everyone is obviously joking back and forth and having a good time, means that Terrans are absolutely positively overpowered, in every single way (Stims OP, Lift Off OP (Lift Off, seriously, am I back on battle.net?, MULE's OP, etc etc), and that Blizz obviously doesn't know balance from a hole in the ground.
... Well hell, it's traditional to go get drunk on Christmas Eve, I think I'll go get ahead of the game =P
(Just to clarify, after re-reading my first bit, I'm stating that both tournament results have the same exact meaning for game balance - jack all. I'm a random player myself, I don't really have a side in this case, and I personally find it to be a fairly balanced matchup. Obviously, this means I'm a drooling idiot  )
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On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:03 De4ngus wrote:
Sigh..... I wonder when other protosses will stop doing greedy builds and play more like MC -_- 3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they could do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only.
Just remember you're substituting zealots for stalkers.
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On December 24 2010 22:19 Gamgee wrote:*sigh* So just so I'm clear, MC slaughtering GSL season 3 means absolutely nothing, just a fluke occuring at the highest level (*drinks*) tournament so far; Terrans doing all-kills (not winning all games mind) in a funsy holiday tournament with a fairly small prize and a fairly random lineup, where everyone is obviously joking back and forth and having a good time, means that Terrans are absolutely positively overpowered, in every single way (Stims OP, Lift Off OP (Lift Off, seriously, am I back on battle.net?, MULE's OP, etc etc), and that Blizz obviously doesn't know balance from a hole in the ground. ... Well hell, it's traditional to go get drunk on Christmas Eve, I think I'll go get ahead of the game =P (Just to clarify, after re-reading my first bit, I'm stating that both tournament results have the same exact meaning for game balance - jack all. I'm a random player myself, I don't really have a side in this case, and I personally find it to be a fairly balanced matchup. Obviously, this means I'm a drooling idiot )
Thing is if you imagine MC as the Fruitdealer of Season 1 then you start to see that he's just an exception. Your race can still be underpowered. Just because it isn't impossible doesn't mean it's balanced.
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For instance, MC defeated this exact push with phoenixes, a lot of zealots+ some stalkers/sentries iirc.
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I see that reading my first LR thread in two months did not disappoint. It was a whinefest extravaganza. It was truly like reading b.net forums. Instead of suggesting improvements or complementing players EVERYTHING is proof that "X IS OP OMG BLIZZARD SUX LOL" This thread honestly gives me vibes of somethingawful circa 2005-2006, which isn't a good thing for those unfamiliar with the history of the interwebz.
I can't believe that I've lurked this site for half a decade to waste my first post on something as stupid and pointless as this.
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On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:03 De4ngus wrote:
Sigh..... I wonder when other protosses will stop doing greedy builds and play more like MC -_- 3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only.
If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving.
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On December 24 2010 22:20 Refreshe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:03 De4ngus wrote:
Sigh..... I wonder when other protosses will stop doing greedy builds and play more like MC -_- 3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they could do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. Just remember you're substituting zealots for stalkers.
yep, but HU had a good ss force when the push arrived, I think if he made only zeal from that point that would have been much better for him, but we'll never know for sure 
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On December 24 2010 22:21 Domination wrote:
I see that reading my first LR thread in two months did not disappoint. It was a whinefest extravaganza. It was truly like reading b.net forums. Instead of suggesting improvements or complementing players EVERYTHING is proof that "X IS OP OMG BLIZZARD SUX LOL" This thread honestly gives me vibes of somethingawful circa 2005-2006, which isn't a good thing for those unfamiliar with the history of the interwebz.
I can't believe that I've lurked this site for half a decade to waste my first post on something as stupid and pointless as this.
Your whining about whine. Whilst contributing nothing of real value to the topic. Yes, you should have stayed a lurker.
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Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off)
Like I said, they're good for zoning and tanking hits. Keeps the heat off of Sentries and Stalkers. Combined with some good forcefields to keep marines from retreating, Zealots can close the gap and actually do pretty good dps. HongUn put down some ok forcefields. It would've been nice if he had some Zealots. I don't think he actually had to engage right then and there where the destructible rocks used to be either. I would say it comes down to micro and MKP was clearly better at that.
Edit: Oh man I totally messed up the bbcode lol.
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On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:03 De4ngus wrote:
Sigh..... I wonder when other protosses will stop doing greedy builds and play more like MC -_- 3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving.
so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o
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On December 24 2010 22:23 dokugami wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off)
Like I said, they're good for zoning and tanking hits. Keeps the heat off of Sentries and Stalkers. Combined with some good forcefields to keep marines from retreating, Zealots can close the gap and actually do pretty good dps. HongUn put down some ok forcefields. It would've been nice if he had some Zealots. I don't think he actually had to engage right then and there where the destructible rocks used to be either. I would say it comes down to micro and MKP was clearly better at that.[/QUOTE]
Your acting like siege mode was never going to arrive, had FoxeR seen anything threatening he could have waited 10-15 seconds then push.
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On December 24 2010 22:23 FataLe wrote:
Your whining about whine. Whilst contributing nothing of real value to the topic. Yes, you should have stayed a lurker. This topic is already devoid of value so I see no real harm done.
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Final Scores for today:
Foxer (2) - Genius (1)
Foxer (2) - choya (1)
Foxer (2) - GgoBooGie (0)
Foxer (2) - Tester (1)
Foxer (2) - HongUn (1)
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On December 24 2010 22:24 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:03 De4ngus wrote:
Sigh..... I wonder when other protosses will stop doing greedy builds and play more like MC -_- 3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving. so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o I think he means tech units would be better. When MC got Tank/Bunker contained he pumped immortals.
Anyway, while this was frustrating to watch as a P player, I don't really think it points to much of an imbalance. Almost every game I could see room for improvement from both players (this isn't saying I'm better than them, just that their play isn't flawless.)
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mc proved in bw he is a much much better player than the lot playing sc2 atm thats why he won gsl3
where as others toss and terran were pretty much at the same level
i dno just saying
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On December 24 2010 22:24 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 22:22 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:18 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:14 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:11 light3 wrote:On December 24 2010 22:10 Shikyo wrote:On December 24 2010 22:09 De4ngus wrote:On December 24 2010 22:05 FataLe wrote:On December 24 2010 22:03 De4ngus wrote:
Sigh..... I wonder when other protosses will stop doing greedy builds and play more like MC -_- 3 Gate is greedy. Rofl bronze player right hurrr. Watch MC's games then watch these ones again, Mr. Bronze. MC in most of the PvTs I've seen does 1base allins or semi-allins that all can be countered with either cloaked Banshees or just the proper unit composition. They all are risky and a gamble. ye man, thats why he has like 90% win rate against terrans right? Yeah instead of 100. If that was your point? How does 90% winrate show that they aren't 1-base allins? -_- On December 24 2010 22:10 MrCon wrote:On December 24 2010 22:07 dokugami wrote:
Man, there's way too much qq and hate in this thread.
Anyway, HongUn must not like Zealots or something. I don't think he even warped in a Zealot after he got the Cybernetics Core. Sure Marines can outrun them with stim but they're tanky, cheap, and they're good for zoning. If they actually close the gap, they do some good dps and that's something to run away from. Better than warping in more fragile yet armored Stalkers so tanks can just unload on them some more. This. I nearly made the same post but didn't press the post button after writing it so I don't get a argue fest. But zealots are very good against tanks, they kills marines very fast thanx to splash. Warping more stalkers when you see a nostim noshield marine+tank push is stupid, disapointed by hongun's play, I like him usualy. Zealots wouldn't do anything vs that many Marines, they'd die before they could even get close. Zealots are dead weight after the super early game all the way until they get charge(unless you get some nice forcefields off) 4 zealots yes, but 10+ zealots (+-1 minute of production with some chronos) can reach the marines before dying, allow the stalkers to deal damage (a thing they couldnt do alone, because they insta melted) But I'm not sure, just I think it would have been better to delay the push while making zealots only. If you're going to invest that much into gateway units once he hits siege mode it's almost GG. He can expand 5 times if he likes, your not moving. so the solution is NOt to make any more units. I'm confused :o
The solution is to go a tech heavy opening, however that leaves you completely open to FoxeR's normal style of play (rushing). That mixed with the wide ramp forces HongUn to go gateway heavy which plays right into Marine + Tank. OHHH how Terran is perfect Balance.
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EPT
