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On November 30 2010 06:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:of course I will stay in Korea. Many players as good or better than me didnt even qualify for gsl or got knocked out earlier, it's dissapointing but not the end of the world for me. I will be picking up the pace tomorrow morning....*looks at clock* ... welll today i guess! 
Great to hear! It's so obvious when looking at your play that you're good enough to compete with the best of the best. ^__^ And don't listen to any bullshit that's written here on the forum, the internet is full of idiots.
RET AND TL HWAITING!
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On November 30 2010 06:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:of course I will stay in Korea. Many players as good or better than me didnt even qualify for gsl or got knocked out earlier, it's dissapointing but not the end of the world for me. I will be picking up the pace tomorrow morning....*looks at clock* ... welll today i guess!
I look forward to seeing you in future GSLs, you're by far the most entertaining player to watch as far as I'm concerned.
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Don't give up ret. You're definitly a good player even if you lost today, you're the player I've been most impressed with for the past month so please do well .
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On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
Then he mismicroed and was too lax on dropping spines on jungle basin. He KNEW his opponent was going for some 1 base crap and still didn't put spines until it was too late. Then on the final push, he only had two which were positioned rather poorly considering he knew the T had medivacs. He's going to look at that game and slap himself, because dropping another spine or two could have won him the game. Ret is a great player and will be back, but the map had less to do with it than his decision making.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind (but 2 rax is so ridic good on steppes that it was really unlikely he wouldn't). You have to realise I spend all my time practicing against the most common allins you saw in all the other TvZs in GSL. 2 rax into 4 rax. marine + scvs. double port banshee. I have never played vs some random hellion/marine/medivac with stim attack off 1 base and the timing completly caught me off guard. And then the rest of my practice was normal macro games. I was making lings on jungle, then i clicked on my pool thinking 'when will this upgrade finish?' and it wasnt started. Comments from people who say that I didnt adapt or anything like that just make me sad. I made a roach warren, baneling nest, and THOUGHT I upgraded speedlings b4 lair on jungle as well as 3 queens. I fucked up, but I prepared for this series very well and I should have won on jungle. Steppes is steppes, you can't scout whats coming and its gonna kill you if you prepare for the wrong thing.
I guess the level of play I play at isn't the same as yours, but I don't really get why no one is doing 14/14 gas/pool into 20 expo though. Does it really put you that far behind, or does it do even worse against 2-rax all-ins? I don't doubt that you practiced for it, it just seems like going hatch first--considered risky--is kind of countered by 2 rax all ins? I agree that the unit comp was unique, but I'm still confused as to why 14 hatch is better.
And like I said, Jungle should have been yours. Didn't mention that you forgot speed, which would have helped immensely, my bad.
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What about a 7rr? That usually works pretty well on short distance maps. At least I have had decent succés with it.
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Also on the carrier/nuke game, I think a huge weakness of the carrier build is that there is no detection. It guarantees that JSL will be able to land a nuke. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but he could have totally used that lack of detection to his advantage, instead of fake nuking to move up the ramp. Even using the ghosts' regular attack to kill probes would've been more effective than the fake nuke, given the size of the armies at the time.
Cloaked ghosts/banshees could be an interesting response to stargate play, but they're expensive, and I don't know if the timing windows would work out. Ghosts do such great damage to light, a couple cloaked ones could do so much damage to probes.
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Sucks that Ret got screwed over by the maps he's clearly better imo. Hopefully they allow player to veto like it should be. Ret is one of the few foreigners that I think can really make an impact in Korea hope he stays and keeps competing.
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Netherlands4540 Posts
On November 30 2010 06:43 Klamity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
Then he mismicroed and was too lax on dropping spines on jungle basin. He KNEW his opponent was going for some 1 base crap and still didn't put spines until it was too late. Then on the final push, he only had two which were positioned rather poorly considering he knew the T had medivacs. He's going to look at that game and slap himself, because dropping another spine or two could have won him the game. Ret is a great player and will be back, but the map had less to do with it than his decision making.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind (but 2 rax is so ridic good on steppes that it was really unlikely he wouldn't). You have to realise I spend all my time practicing against the most common allins you saw in all the other TvZs in GSL. 2 rax into 4 rax. marine + scvs. double port banshee. I have never played vs some random hellion/marine/medivac with stim attack off 1 base and the timing completly caught me off guard. And then the rest of my practice was normal macro games. I was making lings on jungle, then i clicked on my pool thinking 'when will this upgrade finish?' and it wasnt started. Comments from people who say that I didnt adapt or anything like that just make me sad. I made a roach warren, baneling nest, and THOUGHT I upgraded speedlings b4 lair on jungle as well as 3 queens. I fucked up, but I prepared for this series very well and I should have won on jungle. Steppes is steppes, you can't scout whats coming and its gonna kill you if you prepare for the wrong thing. I guess the level of play I play at isn't the same as yours, but I don't really get why no one is doing 14/14 gas/pool into 20 expo though. Does it really put you that far behind, or does it do even worse against 2-rax all-ins? I don't doubt that you practiced for it, it just seems like going hatch first--considered risky--is kind of countered by 2 rax all ins? I agree that the unit comp was unique, but I'm still confused as to why 14 hatch is better. And like I said, Jungle should have been yours. Didn't mention that you forgot speed, which would have helped immensely, my bad.
14 gas 14 pool is 1 hatch lings, and the speed upgrade takes a really long time so you get dominated by 2 rax constant marine production, they can just push forward, bunker block your choke unless you pull a lot of drones with your lings, in the end it's not worth it because you will be worse off economically than double hatching.
I did 14/13 and wouldnt have made an overlord at 15 if he was 2 raxing, hatch pops so then you're at 15/20 supply, you make 12 lings, a spine, and pull 9 drones to your expansion and trap the marines if they try to scv/marine allin you. It's not exactly an ideal situation but better than anything else i tried on that map, I was actually hoping he would allin me
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On November 30 2010 06:13 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
Then he mismicroed and was too lax on dropping spines on jungle basin. He KNEW his opponent was going for some 1 base crap and still didn't put spines until it was too late. Then on the final push, he only had two which were positioned rather poorly considering he knew the T had medivacs. He's going to look at that game and slap himself, because dropping another spine or two could have won him the game. Ret is a great player and will be back, but the map had less to do with it than his decision making.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind (but 2 rax is so ridic good on steppes that it was really unlikely he wouldn't). You have to realise I spend all my time practicing against the most common allins you saw in all the other TvZs in GSL. 2 rax into 4 rax. marine + scvs. double port banshee. I have never played vs some random hellion/marine/medivac attack and the timing completly caught me off guard. And then the rest of my practice was normal macro games. I was making lings on jungle, then i clicked on my pool thinking 'when will this upgrade finish?' and it wasnt started. Comments from people who say that I didnt adapt or anything like that just make me sad. I made a roach warren, baneling nest, and THOUGHT I upgraded speedlings b4 lair on jungle. I fucked up, but I prepared for this series very well and I should have won on jungle. Steppes is steppes. Just ignore that idiot he has no idea what he's talking about obviously. Sucks you forgot speed I was wondering if you did that on purpose or forgot. But don't let it get you down ignore the haters you had a tough map pool with steppes + jungle basin. Hopefully your not too depressed at least you got A class and well play in future tournaments :D (unless people I am reading saying you got it are wrong  )
This is funny. Ret jumps on my comment in a civil manner, one which I imagine most people would agree with/wonder about and then a bunch of fanboys go 'LOL THIS GUY SO DUMB' with absolutely no basis. Considering basic grammatical issues with your post, it's kind of ironic to calls someone else an idiot. The main topic was steppes and you completely disregarded it.
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Hey ret, you played really well but I did not understand one thing:
In game 3 you scouted that he is gonna stay on 1 base for the game but you still tried to tech to mutas instead of just going for the survivor mode
Were you just caught offguard or what were your thoughts while you played this game?
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On November 30 2010 06:50 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 06:43 Klamity wrote:On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
Then he mismicroed and was too lax on dropping spines on jungle basin. He KNEW his opponent was going for some 1 base crap and still didn't put spines until it was too late. Then on the final push, he only had two which were positioned rather poorly considering he knew the T had medivacs. He's going to look at that game and slap himself, because dropping another spine or two could have won him the game. Ret is a great player and will be back, but the map had less to do with it than his decision making.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind (but 2 rax is so ridic good on steppes that it was really unlikely he wouldn't). You have to realise I spend all my time practicing against the most common allins you saw in all the other TvZs in GSL. 2 rax into 4 rax. marine + scvs. double port banshee. I have never played vs some random hellion/marine/medivac with stim attack off 1 base and the timing completly caught me off guard. And then the rest of my practice was normal macro games. I was making lings on jungle, then i clicked on my pool thinking 'when will this upgrade finish?' and it wasnt started. Comments from people who say that I didnt adapt or anything like that just make me sad. I made a roach warren, baneling nest, and THOUGHT I upgraded speedlings b4 lair on jungle as well as 3 queens. I fucked up, but I prepared for this series very well and I should have won on jungle. Steppes is steppes, you can't scout whats coming and its gonna kill you if you prepare for the wrong thing. I guess the level of play I play at isn't the same as yours, but I don't really get why no one is doing 14/14 gas/pool into 20 expo though. Does it really put you that far behind, or does it do even worse against 2-rax all-ins? I don't doubt that you practiced for it, it just seems like going hatch first--considered risky--is kind of countered by 2 rax all ins? I agree that the unit comp was unique, but I'm still confused as to why 14 hatch is better. And like I said, Jungle should have been yours. Didn't mention that you forgot speed, which would have helped immensely, my bad. 14 gas 14 pool is 1 hatch lings, and the speed upgrade takes a really long time so you get dominated by 2 rax constant marine production, they can just push forward, bunker block your choke unless you pull a lot of drones with your lings, in the end it's not worth it because you will be worse off economically than double hatching. I did 14/13 and wouldnt have made an overlord at 15 if he was 2 raxing, hatch pops so then you're at 15/20 supply, you make 12 lings, a spine, and pull 9 drones to your expansion and trap the marines if they try to scv/marine allin you. It's not exactly an ideal situation but better than anything else i tried on that map, I was actually hoping he would allin me
It's good to finally have some pro insight on this outside of Artosis saying "LOL SO KOREAN, SO BAD." I've been wrestling with just dropping a 14 hatch and figuring out how to defend it instead of going pool first, so I'll be doing this from now on, thanks.
Still, once your macro gets rolling you're a sickly good player. Hopefully you do better next time and Gom starts using custom maps/Blizzard releases good ones.
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Netherlands4540 Posts
since there was a starport i was worried about a banshee transition and i thought my banelings would do slightly better, marauder only is kinda unusual, but once again it all comes down to no speedlings i think x.x
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ret fighting! i hope you get into the next gsl, you are a baller
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This is the problem with defensive macro zergs, always getting knocked out by 1-base or timing attacks. We may see Fruitdealer fall soon too. I am not liking his style with getting a 3rd base on hatchery tech with only speedlings.
Zergs need to be more unpredictable and take back control of the game by taking the fight to Terrans like Kyrix or Nestea.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
wow watching right know, very good games imo, gsl 4 will be amazing as this one
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I like how Ret is chatting here so much!  Makes me more of a fan too, even though it's hard to not be a Ret fan anyway... Was really sad when you lost :[
Well, is Ret Code A or not btw?
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Thanks for putting up a good show Ret! I've never cheered that much for a baneling in my life (I hate banelings) as the solo one at the end in the steppes match=)
Gl next GSL
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Best of luck in future tournaments, ret - keep on fighting!
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Ret will be back for the next GSL tournament even stronger. Impressive showing getting ro32 on his first run.
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Good showing for your first GSL though Ret, even though i think you are way better than your opponent. Do you know what your situation is regarding A-class in the upcoming league or has that not been fully detailed yet?
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EPT
