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On November 30 2010 05:43 drlame wrote:
I was most impressed by fruitdealers second game, rets first game and honguns second game. So for anyone who haven't watched those, I highly recommend them.
I will second this.
Fruitdealer's second came gave me chills. His decision making and risks paid off and his unit control was impeccable, however, I don't want to give him all the credit as the Terran definitely overextended himself as well.
Ret's first game was slow for the most part, but ended with a bang after the first big clash.
Hongun's game didn't have any back and forth, but it was still a definite must-watch. The main fight was jaw dropping.
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Also, some of you seem to think Ret's gone. Not true.
IdrA has S-class no matter what.
TLO, Ret, and Sen have A-class no matter what.
Haypro, Artosis, and Torch might have A-class, depending on how they use tiebreakers.
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Netherlands4540 Posts
On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
Then he mismicroed and was too lax on dropping spines on jungle basin. He KNEW his opponent was going for some 1 base crap and still didn't put spines until it was too late. Then on the final push, he only had two which were positioned rather poorly considering he knew the T had medivacs. He's going to look at that game and slap himself, because dropping another spine or two could have won him the game. Ret is a great player and will be back, but the map had less to do with it than his decision making.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind (but 2 rax is so ridic good on steppes that it was really unlikely he wouldn't). You have to realise I spend all my time practicing against the most common allins you saw in all the other TvZs in GSL. 2 rax into 4 rax. marine + scvs. double port banshee. I have never played vs some random hellion/marine/medivac with stim attack off 1 base and the timing completly caught me off guard.
And then the rest of my practice was normal macro games. I was making lings on jungle, then i clicked on my pool thinking 'when will this upgrade finish?' and it wasnt started. Comments from people who say that I didnt adapt or anything like that just make me sad. I made a roach warren, baneling nest, and THOUGHT I upgraded speedlings b4 lair on jungle as well as 3 queens. I fucked up, but I prepared for this series very well and I should have won on jungle. Steppes is steppes, you can't scout whats coming and its gonna kill you if you prepare for the wrong thing.
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On November 29 2010 22:03 Widar wrote:
It was really awesome to see carriers. Only reason it worked was because nobody expect carriers, and HongUn out-played him by far.
Nooobody expects the spanish inquisition!
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On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind. Please man, what do you think I'm doing with my time here? this is just a ridiculous comment.
You don't even need to respond to stuff like that. Anyone with half a clue already knows what you just said, and you're not going to change the minds of anyone else. Let the haters hate and don't miss ling speed next season 
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On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind. Please man, what do you think I'm doing with my time here? this is just a ridiculous comment.
I wouldn't worry about it Ret, you know how people are on the internet. Everyone knows better than everyone else. You played some great games man, its a shame you got the shaft on the map pool. Best of luck next time around, you're a blast to watch play.
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On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind. Please man, what do you think I'm doing with my time here? this is just a ridiculous comment.
Really sad your out of GSL, but you provided one of the most exciting SC2 ZvT's to date, and you played some amazing games. Better luck next season man!
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On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
Then he mismicroed and was too lax on dropping spines on jungle basin. He KNEW his opponent was going for some 1 base crap and still didn't put spines until it was too late. Then on the final push, he only had two which were positioned rather poorly considering he knew the T had medivacs. He's going to look at that game and slap himself, because dropping another spine or two could have won him the game. Ret is a great player and will be back, but the map had less to do with it than his decision making.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind (but 2 rax is so ridic good on steppes that it was really unlikely he wouldn't). You have to realise I spend all my time practicing against the most common allins you saw in all the other TvZs in GSL. 2 rax into 4 rax. marine + scvs. double port banshee. I have never played vs some random hellion/marine/medivac attack and the timing completly caught me off guard. And then the rest of my practice was normal macro games. I was making lings on jungle, then i clicked on my pool thinking 'when will this upgrade finish?' and it wasnt started. Comments from people who say that I didnt adapt or anything like that just make me sad. I made a roach warren, baneling nest, and THOUGHT I upgraded speedlings b4 lair on jungle. I fucked up, but I prepared for this series very well and I should have won on jungle. Steppes is steppes.
Just ignore that idiot he has no idea what he's talking about obviously. Sucks you forgot speed I was wondering if you did that on purpose or forgot.
But don't let it get you down ignore the haters you had a tough map pool with steppes + jungle basin. Hopefully your not too depressed at least you got A class and well play in future tournaments :D (unless people I am reading saying you got it are wrong  )
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Tired of these talentless Terran all-ins. It makes for just silly game play. Seriously i guarantee, I can execute these 2 rax all ins probably 90 percent as well as any pro.
However with normal macro based play, id be lucky if i was able play 10 percent as well.
Even Fruitdealer only won today by taking HUGE risks, if his next opponent is Terran hes just going to see the replay look for the weak points of the risks that FD took and all-in during those times.
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On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
Then he mismicroed and was too lax on dropping spines on jungle basin. He KNEW his opponent was going for some 1 base crap and still didn't put spines until it was too late. Then on the final push, he only had two which were positioned rather poorly considering he knew the T had medivacs. He's going to look at that game and slap himself, because dropping another spine or two could have won him the game. Ret is a great player and will be back, but the map had less to do with it than his decision making.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind (but 2 rax is so ridic good on steppes that it was really unlikely he wouldn't). You have to realise I spend all my time practicing against the most common allins you saw in all the other TvZs in GSL. 2 rax into 4 rax. marine + scvs. double port banshee. I have never played vs some random hellion/marine/medivac with stim attack off 1 base and the timing completly caught me off guard. And then the rest of my practice was normal macro games. I was making lings on jungle, then i clicked on my pool thinking 'when will this upgrade finish?' and it wasnt started. Comments from people who say that I didnt adapt or anything like that just make me sad. I made a roach warren, baneling nest, and THOUGHT I upgraded speedlings b4 lair on jungle as well as 3 queens. I fucked up, but I prepared for this series very well and I should have won on jungle. Steppes is steppes, you can't scout whats coming and its gonna kill you if you prepare for the wrong thing.
This is the reason why pro players are slowly starting to take part in these forums less and less. People think that they are always right and that pro players are above all of this so they post something stupid. I remember when you could communicate with top players alot more on here, but now the new wave players have come to SC2 and think they're all top players, pros are just starting to care less and less...
Good Job Ret, you can't win them all, man. Little mistakes like that cost games, but you slowly learn from it. I know you wanted a better finish, but for your first GSL, you can't be too pissed.
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Is Ret A-class or not? And will he stay in Korea?
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Yeah, what everyone else said. Your fans don't need it, your haters won't believe it. I think what a lot of us DO wonder is whether or not you will be staying. I for one have been quite inspired by your matches. Your mechanics are quite crisp, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, but I've learned a lot from your economy management. Best of luck!
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On November 30 2010 04:20 gozima wrote:
Just caught up on all the games. I'm glad HongUn won, especially with those baller Carriers. As for the Ret games.
I'm glad he lost. Never really liked the guy since he broke into the pro scene in SC1. He comes across as an arrogant asshole. Of course, I could be totally wrong, but from what I've seen and heard, I doubt it. TheBestfOu out played him in all three games. If it wasn't for trying to get up to his main in game 1, he would have won. Games 2 and 3 speak for themselves regardless of what all the fanboys here say.
Wow. I'm disgusted by trash like you. Someone has just tried very hard but lost a match of Starcraft. That's it. Then you come in and say that you're happy for his loss and that he's an arrogant asshole? It takes a special sort of miserable bastard to do that in the first place, but of all people to Ret? Has anyone heard anything about Ret except that he's extremely well-mannered? To say that he's an arrogant asshole is unprecedented, unfounded and idiotic.
If you're not a fan of his and think he deserved to lose, why not give some poor decisions he made or good decisions of his opponent and leave it at that? Why do you have to come in show that you have the social competence and emotional maturity of an inbred teenage brat suffering from Asperberger's, eager to make someone else miserable because of your naive and prejudiced views? Perhaps you have to appear cool and contrarian, a lone bastion of reason and sanity against an unrelenting tide of fanboyism which deserves to be put down for posting comments of support for an arrogant asshole who LOST A GAME OF STARCRAFT of all things!
In either case, you "come across as an arrogant asshole". I know mods hate having their job done for them, but please ban this idiot, or at the very least, ban me so I don't have to suffer him any longer and can study for elliptic curves instead.
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On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
Then he mismicroed and was too lax on dropping spines on jungle basin. He KNEW his opponent was going for some 1 base crap and still didn't put spines until it was too late. Then on the final push, he only had two which were positioned rather poorly considering he knew the T had medivacs. He's going to look at that game and slap himself, because dropping another spine or two could have won him the game. Ret is a great player and will be back, but the map had less to do with it than his decision making.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind (but 2 rax is so ridic good on steppes that it was really unlikely he wouldn't). You have to realise I spend all my time practicing against the most common allins you saw in all the other TvZs in GSL. 2 rax into 4 rax. marine + scvs. double port banshee. I have never played vs some random hellion/marine/medivac with stim attack off 1 base and the timing completly caught me off guard. And then the rest of my practice was normal macro games. I was making lings on jungle, then i clicked on my pool thinking 'when will this upgrade finish?' and it wasnt started. Comments from people who say that I didnt adapt or anything like that just make me sad. I made a roach warren, baneling nest, and THOUGHT I upgraded speedlings b4 lair on jungle as well as 3 queens. I fucked up, but I prepared for this series very well and I should have won on jungle. Steppes is steppes, you can't scout whats coming and its gonna kill you if you prepare for the wrong thing.
Just got done watching the games Ret. Really unfortunate it was obvious who the more talented player was. I really think that you've done enough to dethrone Idra as the Best Macro Zerg in the world. No one seems to get to Hive tier like you. Keep up the hard work man, once this game gets more figured out, all these inferior Terran's will die off. And only the Superior will remain, like your self.
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Cheer up Ret. You came pretty far and should be proud.
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I've been thinking about the Jungle Basin game, and I think TheBestfOu was really smart to one-base on that map.
Ret moved a spotting overlord to the expansion at 4:00, but I wonder when it was that he realized that TheBest was not planning on expanding. On Jungle Basin, it's almost standard to expand early no matter what race you play, so it's reasonable for Ret to assume that TheBest would expand. Perhaps that led him to droning up more than he should have.
That last paragraph was speculation, but it's clear that the loss of the queens that first push led to the loss of overlords, which was a killer combo to his macro. I think Ret played well after the first push, given the circumstances. Marauder medivac is obviously deadly when the opponent can't hit air, and TheBestfOu also microed very well. It's the first push put Ret behind by a lot.
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Netherlands4540 Posts
of course I will stay in Korea. Many players as good or better than me didnt even qualify for gsl or got knocked out earlier, it's dissapointing but not the end of the world for me. I will be picking up the pace tomorrow morning....*looks at clock* ... welll today i guess!
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It's funny how they got rid of the veto system during the current state of the metagame (Terran all-ins). It's like they really want a Terran winner. I have a feeling the finals will be anticlimactic and boring.
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On November 30 2010 06:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 05:25 Klamity wrote:
He went hatch first on Steppes. There really isn't much more to say about that.
Then he mismicroed and was too lax on dropping spines on jungle basin. He KNEW his opponent was going for some 1 base crap and still didn't put spines until it was too late. Then on the final push, he only had two which were positioned rather poorly considering he knew the T had medivacs. He's going to look at that game and slap himself, because dropping another spine or two could have won him the game. Ret is a great player and will be back, but the map had less to do with it than his decision making.
I'm sorry but I just have to respond to this. I played literally 60-70 games on steppes vs 2 rax, all sorts of scv/marine allins and 14/13 is the only way to have a slight chance of blocking it. However if they dont 2 rax you are behind (but 2 rax is so ridic good on steppes that it was really unlikely he wouldn't). You have to realise I spend all my time practicing against the most common allins you saw in all the other TvZs in GSL. 2 rax into 4 rax. marine + scvs. double port banshee. I have never played vs some random hellion/marine/medivac with stim attack off 1 base and the timing completly caught me off guard. And then the rest of my practice was normal macro games. I was making lings on jungle, then i clicked on my pool thinking 'when will this upgrade finish?' and it wasnt started. Comments from people who say that I didnt adapt or anything like that just make me sad. I made a roach warren, baneling nest, and THOUGHT I upgraded speedlings b4 lair on jungle as well as 3 queens. I fucked up, but I prepared for this series very well and I should have won on jungle. Steppes is steppes, you can't scout whats coming and its gonna kill you if you prepare for the wrong thing.
Ret please stay for season 4 and keep at it. We know you have potential and unbelievable skill to find enormous success.
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On November 30 2010 06:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:of course I will stay in Korea. Many players as good or better than me didnt even qualify for gsl or got knocked out earlier, it's dissapointing but not the end of the world for me. I will be picking up the pace tomorrow morning....*looks at clock* ... welll today i guess!
you're the best!
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EPT
