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On November 23 2010 22:04 Wayem wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 23 2010 21:57 LittleeD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 21:54 Wayem wrote:On November 23 2010 21:53 LittleeD wrote:On November 23 2010 21:50 Wayem wrote:On November 23 2010 21:49 LittleeD wrote:On November 23 2010 21:45 Pudge_172 wrote:
Advancing so far:
T 6
Z 5
P 3
T: 6 out of 11 Z: 5 out of 12 P: 3 out of 5 Protoss doing nice so far. You realized there were a lot of mirrors right ? -.- Irrelevant, there hasnt been any protoss mirrors. So they are still doing nice so far. Lol ? That's the reason ! ZvZ and TvT reduce the number of them advancing but no PvP makes P look more successful... Imagine Three match ups: ZvZ TvT PvP This garentees one of each proceeding. But if its: ZvT TvP PvZ Nothing garenteed for the protoss nor anyone. Ok so you still didn't understand. 14 matches so far. 2 ZvZ, 1 TvT, 0 PvP. So 11 MU no mirrors. Results: P: 3-2 T: 5-4 Z: 3-5 So when you say T: 6 out of 11 Z: 5 out of 12 P: 3 out of 5 it looks pretty terrible but until now it's pretty even. Still, it's meaningless for balance. 
I was merely pointing at the fact that, because it hasnt been any protoss mirrors, 3 out of 5 advancing results in a more than 50 % success for protoss overall, which is not that bad.
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On November 23 2010 21:58 Metalwing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 21:54 me_viet wrote:On November 23 2010 21:52 Metalwing wrote:On November 23 2010 21:49 yandere991 wrote:On November 23 2010 21:47 Metalwing wrote:
I definitely wouldn't gg to this guy. Naturally you would clap for the zerg who 6 pool or the zerg who 7rr. In those games it would naturally be the oppositions fault for not reacting correctly. Tell me ANY particular case where 6pool or 7rr is that dependant on map (yes, it depends on rush distance but WTF was this). You realise. This is a BROADCASTED tournament and also ONLY the r64. WHY on earth would HongUn prime want to show off his strat to the WHOLE world, when he didn't have to? Actually if HongUn had won only 1 macro game that is longer than 15 minutes, I'd say that you were right. But he does nothing but 1 base allins since GSL Season 1.
HongUn's PvZ matches in GSL1:
Game 1 vs Cezanne he 2 gate expands (loss)
Game 2 vs Cezanne he does a blink rush allin (on DO) (win)
Game 3 vs Cezanne he 2 gate expands (win)
Game 1 vs Zenio he 2 gates zeal pressure into expansion (win)
Game 2 vs Zenio he FE's into pheonix play (win)
HongUn's PvZ matches in GSL2:
Game 1 vs Kyrix he opens blink stalker and ends up being allin (loss)
Game 2 vs Kyrix he 3 gate expands (loss)
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ITT: people who think they are better/know more about the game than HongUn
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Are you guys sure he scouted the hatch before starting the forge? It looked to me that he pylon scouted, saw the edge of the creep, turned back, and put down the forge with the same probe. Way before the hatch was even started. Seems to me that he decided to cannon rush after seeing close positions.
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On November 23 2010 22:09 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 22:08 mavyric wrote:On November 23 2010 22:07 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 22:00 mavyric wrote:On November 23 2010 21:58 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 21:55 mavyric wrote:On November 23 2010 21:53 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 21:48 Shizuru~ wrote:On November 23 2010 21:46 Wysp wrote:
forge will probably see a build time increase. maybe Zergs needs to think twice now rather than just lol14hatch every game? WTF it's okay for P or T to FE but not for zerg? Moreover it is okay that P can adjust their strategy on the fly instead of executing a premiditated offense and recieve a win with 0 effort or risk? And how many times do you see T or P actaully sucessfully expanding when Z is playing off one base? That's what I thought A lot. Zerg playing off 1 base is a BO loss against anything anyway so what are you getting at. Look, what I'm trying to say is simple When you see a FE, Just Kill It If the Zerg was one basing, there is absolutly no reason he would lose if he just attacks the player that is fast expanding If FE worked that well every T and P would be doing it all the time. Maybe you should go watch some games instead of arguing on the forums. There hasnt been a week since Nestea played Genius and you tell me that. One basing zerg will break a FEing P/T in less then 50% of the attempts. OK Mr. smart guy Why DONT they FE every game then? Because different people have different styles.
ROFL OK, I'm done with this argument
Although I'd recommend you to not base your opinions off of ONE match when clearly there are many others with failed FE attempts.
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On November 23 2010 22:06 Metalwing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 22:00 crappen wrote:
Of course Hongun is crying, this kid does nothing but 1 base, and this is the nr1 problem with protoss in korea. Seen Socke play? This guy is amazing, makes me wanna play protoss.
I think korean protoss needs to learn to play the damn race instead of all this 3gate pushes they do. Take a lesson or two from Socke This. Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 22:04 Dommk wrote:On November 23 2010 22:00 crappen wrote:
Of course Hongun is crying, this kid does nothing but 1 base, and this is the nr1 problem with protoss in korea. Seen Socke play? This guy is amazing, makes me wanna play protoss.
I think korean protoss needs to learn to play the damn race instead of all this 3gate pushes they do. Take a lesson or two from Socke Yeah because forge fast expand is a 1base all in right? But lets not have that over shadow your amazing feat of figuring out what all Korean Protoss's are doing wrong *rolls eyes* Fast expand? So you say that building cannons and pylons in your opponent's nat is fast expand? There was no friggin nexus and you call it FE? Rearrange your sc related terminology plz.
Narrowminded much? his forge placement at the bottom of his ramp clearly indicates his plan to forge FE but he scouted his opponent first and very early due to close rush positions so obviously he took his free win
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On November 23 2010 22:01 Alejandrisha wrote:
lol alksjdflkasjdflkj your white knighting for zerg might have been seen as noble before the patch but I don't understand why you are still crying now. can you really not win zvp? btw a 12 forge is an instant loss vs anything else the zerg does. and if he goes 13 gate and the zerg went hatch first the zealot doesn't get there in time to suddenly throw down a forge and wall off; you need a 10gate- 16 forge for that kind of timing. So it's not like the protoss can do one opener and have it insta win vs every zerg build post patch.
you might look at your post history to comprehend what crying is.
I'd like to see some evidence that would prove that protoss is inferior to zerg.
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I think the original plan was cannon containment on ramp and expand but since he found the expo he decided to cannon that instead.
Edit: reply to WxWx, I should just use quotes.
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On November 23 2010 22:10 Dommk wrote:
ITT: people who think they are better/know more about the game than HongUn
nice, did you went to check the games again? or you remembered off your mind XD
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Can someone please fix the OP or at least post the results?
Bunch of crying babies about a guy who wouldnt have made it far anyways....
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On November 23 2010 22:10 Pervect wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 21:58 Metalwing wrote:On November 23 2010 21:54 me_viet wrote:On November 23 2010 21:52 Metalwing wrote:On November 23 2010 21:49 yandere991 wrote:On November 23 2010 21:47 Metalwing wrote:
I definitely wouldn't gg to this guy. Naturally you would clap for the zerg who 6 pool or the zerg who 7rr. In those games it would naturally be the oppositions fault for not reacting correctly. Tell me ANY particular case where 6pool or 7rr is that dependant on map (yes, it depends on rush distance but WTF was this). You realise. This is a BROADCASTED tournament and also ONLY the r64. WHY on earth would HongUn prime want to show off his strat to the WHOLE world, when he didn't have to? Actually if HongUn had won only 1 macro game that is longer than 15 minutes, I'd say that you were right. But he does nothing but 1 base allins since GSL Season 1. HongUn's PvZ matches in GSL1: Game 1 vs Cezanne he 2 gate expands (loss) Game 2 vs Cezanne he does a blink rush allin (on DO) (win) Game 3 vs Cezanne he 2 gate expands (win) Game 1 vs Zenio he 2 gates zeal pressure into expansion (win) Game 2 vs Zenio he FE's into pheonix play (win) HongUn's PvZ matches in GSL2: Game 1 vs Kyrix he opens blink stalker and ends up being allin (loss) Game 2 vs Kyrix he 3 gate expands (loss)
Nice writeup, but none of his wins were macro and longer than 15 minutes.
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artosis doesn't have the ability to cry about zerg being underpowered on the tl forums so he hired this slkjsldfkj guy to fill his shoes for him in the interim. 1.12 zerg is sooo hard i've heard. try making early-mid protoss units cost efficient vs roaches unless you they choose to fight you in a 3x3 corrider and you have infinite energy on your sentries please
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On November 23 2010 22:11 mavyric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 22:09 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 22:08 mavyric wrote:On November 23 2010 22:07 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 22:00 mavyric wrote:On November 23 2010 21:58 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 21:55 mavyric wrote:On November 23 2010 21:53 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 21:48 Shizuru~ wrote:On November 23 2010 21:46 Wysp wrote:
forge will probably see a build time increase. maybe Zergs needs to think twice now rather than just lol14hatch every game? WTF it's okay for P or T to FE but not for zerg? Moreover it is okay that P can adjust their strategy on the fly instead of executing a premiditated offense and recieve a win with 0 effort or risk? And how many times do you see T or P actaully sucessfully expanding when Z is playing off one base? That's what I thought A lot. Zerg playing off 1 base is a BO loss against anything anyway so what are you getting at. Look, what I'm trying to say is simple When you see a FE, Just Kill It If the Zerg was one basing, there is absolutly no reason he would lose if he just attacks the player that is fast expanding If FE worked that well every T and P would be doing it all the time. Maybe you should go watch some games instead of arguing on the forums. There hasnt been a week since Nestea played Genius and you tell me that. One basing zerg will break a FEing P/T in less then 50% of the attempts. OK Mr. smart guy Why DONT they FE every game then? Because different people have different styles. ROFL OK, I'm done with this argument Although I'd recommend you to not base your opinions off of ONE match when clearly there are many others with failed FE attempts.
It's not an arguement, i am just stating the obvious.
Okay, many FE failed attempts. Like which games would that be?
And your ladder games dont count.
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On November 23 2010 22:10 Pervect wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 21:58 Metalwing wrote:On November 23 2010 21:54 me_viet wrote:On November 23 2010 21:52 Metalwing wrote:On November 23 2010 21:49 yandere991 wrote:On November 23 2010 21:47 Metalwing wrote:
I definitely wouldn't gg to this guy. Naturally you would clap for the zerg who 6 pool or the zerg who 7rr. In those games it would naturally be the oppositions fault for not reacting correctly. Tell me ANY particular case where 6pool or 7rr is that dependant on map (yes, it depends on rush distance but WTF was this). You realise. This is a BROADCASTED tournament and also ONLY the r64. WHY on earth would HongUn prime want to show off his strat to the WHOLE world, when he didn't have to? Actually if HongUn had won only 1 macro game that is longer than 15 minutes, I'd say that you were right. But he does nothing but 1 base allins since GSL Season 1. HongUn's PvZ matches in GSL1: Game 1 vs Cezanne he 2 gate expands (loss) Game 2 vs Cezanne he does a blink rush allin (on DO) (win) Game 3 vs Cezanne he 2 gate expands (win) Game 1 vs Zenio he 2 gates zeal pressure into expansion (win) Game 2 vs Zenio he FE's into pheonix play (win) HongUn's PvZ matches in GSL2: Game 1 vs Kyrix he opens blink stalker and ends up being allin (loss) Game 2 vs Kyrix he 3 gate expands (loss)
Looks like he is right, many protoss players remembers His Phoenix play against Zenio in GSL 1.
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On November 23 2010 22:01 Alejandrisha wrote:
lol alksjdflkasjdflkj your white knighting for zerg might have been seen as noble before the patch but I don't understand why you are still crying now. can you really not win zvp? btw a 12 forge is an instant loss vs anything else the zerg does. and if he goes 13 gate and the zerg went hatch first the zealot doesn't get there in time to suddenly throw down a forge and wall off; you need a 10gate- 16 forge for that kind of timing. So it's not like the protoss can do one opener and have it insta win vs every zerg build post patch.
okay, you play 1 base Z, and i'll throw down a forge on 12. Do you not know how to wall-off? Yes believe it or not, you need to actually scout when you open forge first. Yes you need to actually build multiple cannons if a roach rush is coming :O Yes sc2 is hard..
Forge first is a counter to all kinds of rush Z has on 1 base.
Oh wow, I just got dragged in by the troll.
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On November 23 2010 22:14 Alejandrisha wrote:
artosis doesn't have the ability to cry about zerg being underpowered on the tl forums so he hired this slkjsldfkj guy to fill his shoes for him in the interim. 1.12 zerg is sooo hard i've heard. try making early-mid protoss units cost efficient vs roaches unless you they choose to fight you in a 3x3 corrider and you have infinite energy on your sentries please
well since you cant provide any factual evidence of Z>P ill settle for the evidence of artosis hiring me.
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Any recommended games today?
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On November 23 2010 22:11 mavyric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 22:09 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 22:08 mavyric wrote:On November 23 2010 22:07 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 22:00 mavyric wrote:On November 23 2010 21:58 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 21:55 mavyric wrote:On November 23 2010 21:53 Sfydjklm wrote:On November 23 2010 21:48 Shizuru~ wrote:On November 23 2010 21:46 Wysp wrote:
forge will probably see a build time increase. maybe Zergs needs to think twice now rather than just lol14hatch every game? WTF it's okay for P or T to FE but not for zerg? Moreover it is okay that P can adjust their strategy on the fly instead of executing a premiditated offense and recieve a win with 0 effort or risk? And how many times do you see T or P actaully sucessfully expanding when Z is playing off one base? That's what I thought A lot. Zerg playing off 1 base is a BO loss against anything anyway so what are you getting at. Look, what I'm trying to say is simple When you see a FE, Just Kill It If the Zerg was one basing, there is absolutly no reason he would lose if he just attacks the player that is fast expanding If FE worked that well every T and P would be doing it all the time. Maybe you should go watch some games instead of arguing on the forums. There hasnt been a week since Nestea played Genius and you tell me that. One basing zerg will break a FEing P/T in less then 50% of the attempts. OK Mr. smart guy Why DONT they FE every game then? Because different people have different styles. ROFL OK, I'm done with this argument Although I'd recommend you to not base your opinions off of ONE match when clearly there are many others with failed FE attempts.
Well maybe FE is fucking risky, for both zerg and protoss. I am also hoping for zerg to go pool first for once. This is for people crying protoss cant FE vs zerg anymore, which is only correct on certain maps, which leads me to maps..
It's way too soon to call nerfs and buffs, when all we see atm is playstyles that leads to less then 10minutes except mirrors.
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On November 23 2010 22:15 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 22:14 Alejandrisha wrote:
artosis doesn't have the ability to cry about zerg being underpowered on the tl forums so he hired this slkjsldfkj guy to fill his shoes for him in the interim. 1.12 zerg is sooo hard i've heard. try making early-mid protoss units cost efficient vs roaches unless you they choose to fight you in a 3x3 corrider and you have infinite energy on your sentries please well since you cant provide any factual evidence of Z>P ill settle for the evidence of artosis hiring me.
I love your attitude, it reminds me exactly of all the terrans who asked for "evidence" that 60 damage siege tanks wasn't strong against zerg.
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To the zergs who watched this match and thinks their race can no longer FE due to "op cannons"...
Simply go pool first then hatch. Keep a drone patrol also. It's almost the same econ-wise really. Going hatch first is a gamble which would pay off slightly. I am sure the zerg that just lost is not whining about "op cannons", but more about luck of the spawn-positions.
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EPT
