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[GSL] S3 Ro64 Day 2 - Page 172

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
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jeremycafe
Profile Joined March 2009
United States354 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-23 13:32:54
November 23 2010 13:29 GMT
#3421
Where the Nov 23, 2010 19:00 KST(GMT+9) matches played? Thought they would have been going on still but live says 14 hours till next and no results posted here or on gom
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 23 2010 13:30 GMT
#3422
On November 23 2010 22:28 Shizuru~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2010 22:22 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:18 wxwx wrote:
To the zergs who watched this match and thinks their race can no longer FE due to "op cannons"...

Simply go pool first then hatch. Keep a drone patrol also. It's almost the same econ-wise really. Going hatch first is a gamble which would pay off slightly. I am sure the zerg that just lost is not whining about "op cannons", but more about luck of the spawn-positions.

Youre misunderstanding the issue.
I want to have options. I want to use strategies. i want to be able to expand and defend expansions. It's fine if he cannons me, but i want to be able to match my skill against his skill and see who comes out on top.



its called build order advantage?

u wanna do a build that rewards at a later stages of the game while having a weaker early game strength, well guess what u will be at a disadvantage at the early stages of the game because ur taking a risk why the hell are u guys complaining when ur punished for doing a greedy build? and expect to be able to 14 hatch every game without consequences?

i'm fine with risks, it's a 100% loss part i'm worried about.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
frucisky
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2170 Posts
November 23 2010 13:35 GMT
#3423
I really don't understand you man. Its never a 100% loss. Going 3 hatch pool is 100% loss. Going hatch first against toss players who don't punish you isn't 100% loss. And even if they did try to cannon rush or something, you have a very good chance of holding it off my pulling drones. And toss invests quite a bit by cannon rushing, no gatway - no stalkers, money on pylons and cannons >.<
<3 DongRaeGu <3
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-23 13:35:43
November 23 2010 13:35 GMT
#3424
fun fact: 1 pylon+1 cannon = 250min, if he throw in 2 cannons (to make the strat effective) tats like 400min in which the Toss takes a bigger risk than the fast hatch if the cannons didnt pay out.

*i missed the hungun games lol
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 23 2010 13:36 GMT
#3425
On November 23 2010 22:27 yandere991 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2010 22:19 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:17 yandere991 wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:15 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:14 Alejandrisha wrote:
artosis doesn't have the ability to cry about zerg being underpowered on the tl forums so he hired this slkjsldfkj guy to fill his shoes for him in the interim. 1.12 zerg is sooo hard i've heard. try making early-mid protoss units cost efficient vs roaches unless you they choose to fight you in a 3x3 corrider and you have infinite energy on your sentries please

well since you cant provide any factual evidence of Z>P ill settle for the evidence of artosis hiring me.


I love your attitude, it reminds me exactly of all the terrans who asked for "evidence" that 60 damage siege tanks wasn't strong against zerg.

The evidence was terrans were winning(and still are anyway) over 60% of all tournament titles.
Also blizzard have made it clear that they are tracking ingame statistics i.e. how many games were won using unit X.

Boom, next. Any more noobs want to get pwned?


And the mediocre showing of protoss is because we need to L2P. Of course evidence inferring the weak state of protoss is invalid but the evidence of zerg players are are not.

Could also lose the condescending attitude, its quite pathetic.

You're talking about evidence you can not provide.
Here buddy i'll help you since youre clearly not on my level.
GSL 2 winrate for ZvP is 70%.
To which i claim but MLG dallas its 60% in favor of protoss, and Genius won Blizzcon and beat GSL 2 champ in GOMTV invitational. Also Whitera is in the finals of GGI after beating Sen(who 3-1ed huk) and Dimaga to get there.
And Krolu 2-0ed dimaga in IEM qualifications. To which you say but whitera has lost to Deathangel 1-2 in the very same qualifications.

So there we go there is no evidence whatsoever to claim that ZvP is imbalanced towards neither Z nor P, and it's simply the extreme effectiveness and accessability of cannon rushes that we're discussing here.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
ShadezOwnage
Profile Joined May 2010
184 Posts
November 23 2010 13:36 GMT
#3426
On November 23 2010 22:29 jeremycafe wrote:
Where the Nov 23, 2010 19:00 KST(GMT+9) matches played? Thought they would have been going on still but live says 14 hours till next and no results posted here or on gom


they played.

none of these idiots can pause for a second from their zvp bs to update us on who won the matches.
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 23 2010 13:41 GMT
#3427
On November 23 2010 22:36 ShadezOwnage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2010 22:29 jeremycafe wrote:
Where the Nov 23, 2010 19:00 KST(GMT+9) matches played? Thought they would have been going on still but live says 14 hours till next and no results posted here or on gom


they played.

none of these idiots can pause for a second from their zvp bs to update us on who won the matches.

maybe an idiot is the one who cant go to the last page of the thread to look for updates?
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
ShadezOwnage
Profile Joined May 2010
184 Posts
November 23 2010 13:42 GMT
#3428
The last 10 pages have been about HongUnPrimes interview.

I cant even tell if he won or lost....
Bleb
Profile Joined August 2010
Croatia278 Posts
November 23 2010 13:44 GMT
#3429
On November 23 2010 22:42 ShadezOwnage wrote:
The last 10 pages have been about HongUnPrimes interview.

I cant even tell if he won or lost....

he wouldn't be giving interview if he'd lost ; )
McDonalds
Profile Joined March 2010
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
November 23 2010 13:45 GMT
#3430
On November 23 2010 22:42 ShadezOwnage wrote:
The last 10 pages have been about HongUnPrimes interview.

I cant even tell if he won or lost....

Uh, there are multiple posts on the last page giving the results.
High five :---)
palookieblue
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia326 Posts
November 23 2010 13:45 GMT
#3431
On November 23 2010 22:36 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2010 22:27 yandere991 wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:19 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:17 yandere991 wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:15 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:14 Alejandrisha wrote:
artosis doesn't have the ability to cry about zerg being underpowered on the tl forums so he hired this slkjsldfkj guy to fill his shoes for him in the interim. 1.12 zerg is sooo hard i've heard. try making early-mid protoss units cost efficient vs roaches unless you they choose to fight you in a 3x3 corrider and you have infinite energy on your sentries please

well since you cant provide any factual evidence of Z>P ill settle for the evidence of artosis hiring me.


I love your attitude, it reminds me exactly of all the terrans who asked for "evidence" that 60 damage siege tanks wasn't strong against zerg.

The evidence was terrans were winning(and still are anyway) over 60% of all tournament titles.
Also blizzard have made it clear that they are tracking ingame statistics i.e. how many games were won using unit X.

Boom, next. Any more noobs want to get pwned?


And the mediocre showing of protoss is because we need to L2P. Of course evidence inferring the weak state of protoss is invalid but the evidence of zerg players are are not.

Could also lose the condescending attitude, its quite pathetic.

You're talking about evidence you can not provide.
Here buddy i'll help you since youre clearly not on my level.
GSL 2 winrate for ZvP is 70%.
To which i claim but MLG dallas its 60% in favor of protoss, and Genius won Blizzcon and beat GSL 2 champ in GOMTV invitational. Also Whitera is in the finals of GGI after beating Sen(who 3-1ed huk) and Dimaga to get there.
And Krolu 2-0ed dimaga in IEM qualifications. To which you say but whitera has lost to Deathangel 1-2 in the very same qualifications.

So there we go there is no evidence whatsoever to claim that ZvP is imbalanced towards neither Z nor P, and it's simply the extreme effectiveness and accessability of cannon rushes that we're discussing here.


You are so condescending in your posts, it's really unbecoming. ):
Your 'evidence' is nothing more than selecting games here and there, results from so-and-so tournament that support your ramblings.
GSL is a higher level tournament than MLG. This is my opinion. I don't feel obligated to provide evidence for this statement since I'm quite sure most people will agree with me, and having watched both tournaments, this is not even worth discussing. You posted earlier than you didn't agree, and I don't really know what to say to you.

Secondly, you're bringing up Blizzcon?
Blizzcon had some decent players, but c'mon, it was for show. Case in point: BoxeR vs Fruitdealer wasn't even part of the main tournament.

You're claiming all this ridiculous stuff and not backing it properly at all, whilst shooting down anyone else who disagrees.
oyoyo
ulf5
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden208 Posts
November 23 2010 13:45 GMT
#3432
On November 23 2010 22:42 ShadezOwnage wrote:
The last 10 pages have been about HongUnPrimes interview.

I cant even tell if he won or lost....

They interview the winner.
SiNoCiDe
Profile Joined September 2010
Turkey67 Posts
November 23 2010 13:47 GMT
#3433
On November 23 2010 22:36 ShadezOwnage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2010 22:29 jeremycafe wrote:
Where the Nov 23, 2010 19:00 KST(GMT+9) matches played? Thought they would have been going on still but live says 14 hours till next and no results posted here or on gom


they played.

none of these idiots can pause for a second from their zvp bs to update us on who won the matches.


Page 171, maybe you can refrain from calling everyone an idiot once you learn to read.
FLASH | MVP | MMA | KAS | TAEJA | BYUN | MKP | POLT | BOMBER | THORZAIN
Piledriver
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1697 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-23 13:53:17
November 23 2010 13:48 GMT
#3434
On November 23 2010 21:49 Metalwing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2010 21:47 truewt wrote:
On November 23 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote:
I really want to insult HongUn for playing such lame games..


that was as legit as any win..


A win is legit as long as you don't match fix, but I would just outrage if someone at the GSL played those abuse orientated strats against me let alone gg'ing.



LOL, you wont even get into GSL qualifiers with your gold level play.

A player going 14 hatch must be prepared to deal with the consequences of his decision. I dont understand these zergs QQing about this shit. Maybe you should go back to the practice league with destructable rocks and transition into custom games named as "14 minutes no rush kk??" and transition into leaving if the opponent rushes.

I mean its not just zvp, there is a whole thread on zvt about 2 rax scv rushes and another bunch of zergs QQing there, about how abusive it is.

Do zergs do nothing but QQ? Perhaps if you actually played the game instead of camping forums and whining nonstop perhaps you would get better.

Mind boggling.
Envy fan since NTH.
yandere991
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia394 Posts
November 23 2010 13:49 GMT
#3435
On November 23 2010 22:36 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2010 22:27 yandere991 wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:19 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:17 yandere991 wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:15 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 23 2010 22:14 Alejandrisha wrote:
artosis doesn't have the ability to cry about zerg being underpowered on the tl forums so he hired this slkjsldfkj guy to fill his shoes for him in the interim. 1.12 zerg is sooo hard i've heard. try making early-mid protoss units cost efficient vs roaches unless you they choose to fight you in a 3x3 corrider and you have infinite energy on your sentries please

well since you cant provide any factual evidence of Z>P ill settle for the evidence of artosis hiring me.


I love your attitude, it reminds me exactly of all the terrans who asked for "evidence" that 60 damage siege tanks wasn't strong against zerg.

The evidence was terrans were winning(and still are anyway) over 60% of all tournament titles.
Also blizzard have made it clear that they are tracking ingame statistics i.e. how many games were won using unit X.

Boom, next. Any more noobs want to get pwned?


And the mediocre showing of protoss is because we need to L2P. Of course evidence inferring the weak state of protoss is invalid but the evidence of zerg players are are not.

Could also lose the condescending attitude, its quite pathetic.

You're talking about evidence you can not provide.
Here buddy i'll help you since youre clearly not on my level.
GSL 2 winrate for ZvP is 70%.
To which i claim but MLG dallas its 60% in favor of protoss, and Genius won Blizzcon and beat GSL 2 champ in GOMTV invitational. Also Whitera is in the finals of GGI after beating Sen(who 3-1ed huk) and Dimaga to get there.
And Krolu 2-0ed dimaga in IEM qualifications. To which you say but whitera has lost to Deathangel 1-2 in the very same qualifications.

So there we go there is no evidence whatsoever to claim that ZvP is imbalanced towards neither Z nor P, and it's simply the extreme effectiveness and accessability of cannon rushes that we're discussing here.


I agree that I'm certainly not on your level in terms of arrogance and most people would agree that GSL is the tournament with the highest skill level and thus where the balance analysis should be placed but of course you'll refute this and pull some other statistics from a lower tier tournament to prove otherwise.

Yes cannon contains are effective but so are cloaked banshees against a non robo protoss, so deal with it. I don't tell terrans on the ladder to diaf, l2p, etc when he sees a twilight council and goes cloak so maybe you should do the same to protoss who cannon contains. I think we derailed this thread long enough and nothing protoss will say would convince you otherwise of your point. I'm beginning to think the UP phase of zerg made most of their players extremely spiteful as evident in most of the posts here.
Gorguts
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada254 Posts
November 23 2010 13:50 GMT
#3436
I don't get why you zerg players are so obsessed with 14 hatching. It's been proven to be the same economically as a speedling expand with hatch around 20 or w/e. The only advantage is slightly faster creep spread.
McDonalds
Profile Joined March 2010
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
November 23 2010 13:52 GMT
#3437
Hey guys, remember when video games were fun? So glad those days are over.
High five :---)
Ryzu
Profile Joined September 2010
United States369 Posts
November 23 2010 13:54 GMT
#3438
On November 23 2010 22:48 Piledriver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2010 21:49 Metalwing wrote:
On November 23 2010 21:47 truewt wrote:
On November 23 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote:
I really want to insult HongUn for playing such lame games..


that was as legit as any win..


A win is legit as long as you don't match fix, but I would just outrage if someone at the GSL played those abuse orientated strats against me let alone gg'ing.



LOL, you wont even get into GSL qualifiers with your gold level play.

A player going 14 hatch must be prepared to deal with the consequences of his decision. I dont understand these zergs QQing about this shit. Maybe you should go back to the practice league with destructable rocks and transition into custom games named as "14 minutes no rush kk??" and transition into leaving if the opponent rushes.

Mind boggling.


Agreed. If you're going to 14 hatch, prepare to be rushed. Otherwise, Pool first, open balanced, not economically cheesing, and maybe, just maybe, the Zerg won't get rolled in the first 10 minutes. If you 14 hatch, you are willingly accepting that risk. It cannot be whined and argued about.

It would be like a Terran or Protoss going 15/16 CC-Nexus, and then whining when the Zerg goes Roach all-in.
Gegenschein
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada107 Posts
November 23 2010 13:56 GMT
#3439
You're talking about evidence you can not provide.
Here buddy i'll help you since youre clearly not on my level.
GSL 2 winrate for ZvP is 70%.
To which i claim but MLG dallas its 60% in favor of protoss, and Genius won Blizzcon and beat GSL 2 champ in GOMTV invitational. Also Whitera is in the finals of GGI after beating Sen(who 3-1ed huk) and Dimaga to get there.
And Krolu 2-0ed dimaga in IEM qualifications. To which you say but whitera has lost to Deathangel 1-2 in the very same qualifications.

So there we go there is no evidence whatsoever to claim that ZvP is imbalanced towards neither Z nor P, and it's simply the extreme effectiveness and accessability of cannon rushes that we're discussing here.


I dare point out that 3 out of the 5 best Protosses at MLG Dallas didn't manage to qualify for GSL3. The other 2, of course, simply didn't go to Korea.
You and whose 200/200 fully upgraded army?
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
November 23 2010 13:57 GMT
#3440
Everyone play random.
Problem solved.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
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