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SC2 All-Stars Ro16 - Page 19

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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pAzand
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden539 Posts
November 18 2010 17:40 GMT
#361
Protoss fighting!
If you can chill.. Chill!
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
November 18 2010 17:41 GMT
#362
It's such a shame Tester didn't make it into GSL 3.
PirateFX
Profile Joined October 2010
Malaysia252 Posts
November 18 2010 17:52 GMT
#363
On November 19 2010 02:35 Promises wrote:
Tester is still one of the only Protosses who can impressively win PvT's in my eyes ^^ The rest win aswell but it never feels quite as... well played. I have to say tho I was very impressed with Genius' play v NesTea (only saw game 2 and 3 tho), I didnt held him in too high regard but he might be better then I thought ^^


You should check out game 1 as well, Genius was relentless. As for Tester..........sigh, its a damn shame we won't be seeing him or Sangho this season.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
November 18 2010 18:02 GMT
#364
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Obbalord
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany166 Posts
November 18 2010 18:06 GMT
#365
and what were his mistakes tyler? what would u improve? More Gateway units in the earlygame ? i have to agree there, he hold off the rush very close.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
November 18 2010 18:09 GMT
#366
On November 19 2010 03:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable.


I agree. Except I wouldn't call it sloppy. Just, very fragile.
Hello=)
Obbalord
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany166 Posts
November 18 2010 18:12 GMT
#367
one question remains: what are the alternatives? with colossi stalker only its VERY hard to hold off a timed ghost/viking/rauder push (after terran fast expanded aswell). i think colossi + phoenix is at the moment the best style u can do. stalker arent really good enough for a 50gas unit against marauder only :{


noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
November 18 2010 18:17 GMT
#368
People telling bad things about foxer, i dont think he is genius nor next flash, but flash was called fluke, then he was called cheeser, then he was called a "best of the moment", then he was considered one of the best, then finally genius ...
At least I know he isnt cheese or fluke, i still think he is just way above average ...
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-18 18:19:59
November 18 2010 18:18 GMT
#369
On November 19 2010 03:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable.


I've nothing against good player "bad mouthing" other good players,
still i personally would like it, if you could give a bit of your insight why you
think it that way.
You don't have to write 1k words about it, or analyse it to the tiniest detail, just
maybe 2-3 sentence why it's that way so we other people without your knowledge can actually follow your reasonning behind and maybe also discover his
flaws in play.

Same with Idra and his "Nestea is bad, MVP is bad".
More of a wish of mine than everything, tiny bit for the community.
(guess you won't do it because silver guys comming along and trying to theorycraft)
wat
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-18 18:25:43
November 18 2010 18:21 GMT
#370
On November 19 2010 03:06 Obbalord wrote:
and what were his mistakes tyler? what would u improve? More Gateway units in the earlygame ? i have to agree there, he hold off the rush very close.

Yeah his build was just plain bad. It's possible to expo faster safely and simply have more units. Tester's build is exactly the build that Day9 doesn't like either but Koreans keep doing it. NaDa's build should be owned by Tester's build so much faster on LT because NaDa's little timing attack is horrible against the tiny choke on LT's naturals, so all those units do nothing but delay a proper TvP composition. But Tester does a bad version of that build and so he doesn't easily repel NaDa's attack and NaDa's 4rax pump with delayed Starport actually works. On close position Metalopolis -- ok try it. On LT, no that shouldn't work.

Mass Phoenix looks so cool until they get EMP'd and take 600+ shield damage instantly and then can't kill the Vikings nor do any lifting. Or until Terran leaves a group of ~8 Marines in back of their army, so when it's Viking vs Phoenix, 8 stimmed Marines turn the tide and the Colossi can't run forward to do anything about it.

But NaDa broke him anyway and tried to stream in units to capitalize but it was the wrong choice because he never EMP'd the Phoenixes and they had dozens of lifts in them. He could have sat back and had another timing where he could build a composition that didn't give a shit about Colossi because Tester would only have ~3 Colossi rebuilt and not much Force Field either (if any) by the time NaDa hit his timing. But instead, he continued to build an anti-Colossi composition and then just let Tester rebuild Colossi. That's not how to play TvP.

Or NaDa could have gone the PainUser route and centered his composition around Thors. I'd bet that PainUser saw that game as totally winnable for NaDa.

Better yet, combine those ideas. After breaking Tester, go in when you have 3 Thors, 1 ghost and whatever other MM Viking your Barracks and Starports were able to make. gg phoenix composition
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
ZerOfy
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom405 Posts
November 18 2010 18:31 GMT
#371
Mass Collosi + Mass Pheonix + a couple gateway units. Playing 'toss is great. :p
My life for Aiur!
Lalgee
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom65 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-18 18:44:31
November 18 2010 18:42 GMT
#372
Is it a positive or a negative thing that Tester believes he can survive the early game with fewer units than is considered 'standard'. Rarely see FE with just 2 gates and quick tech to col. His defense was superb however. Thoroughly impressed with his unique style, MORE TESTER MORE!!! I've heard yourself and others Tyler discussing how difficult it is to find a good phoenix opening currently, and yet Tester defeated Nada 2-0 with phoenix'. Give the man some cred!
"That's Lal-Genius"
NeoSlicerZ
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland470 Posts
November 18 2010 18:47 GMT
#373
I just saw game one and Day9 loomed in my mind. So they go 2gate robo expand, which is great! but, SUDDENLY COLOSSUS! Dunno why nada didn't transition out of bio :/ Colossi and storm is a transition into losing your entire army instantly with all that damage frontloaded.
skipdog172
Profile Joined June 2010
United States331 Posts
November 18 2010 18:54 GMT
#374
It even looked like Nada could've attacked well before the 10 minute mark and won the first fight easily. Tester had barely any gateway units. That is why I was so boggled initially, as Nada had such an army advantage before that 10 min mark, he probably could've 1a'd into Tester's base and won. It seems like that is what top toss players lose to vs. terran... simple early pushes while they are trying to get colossus. That is why I don't understand why he wasn't even constantly pumping units out of his warpgate early and just hoping that he didn't get attacked.
Obbalord
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany166 Posts
November 18 2010 18:55 GMT
#375
have to agree tyler, i think if nada put 1-2 thors in his army (huge damage on phoenix) or got an emp on phoenix tester is pretty much fucked..., i dont like the mass phonenix style too, but it seems to me that many top tier korean toss do this style (sangho in the clantourney too for example), but i cant believe this strategy is really good.. :[. the usual mass gate colossi style would have rolled nada after his failed first push..

@ lalgee
the 2gate robo fe to fast colossi build is nothing special, most toss do this, look genius vs loner blizzcon finals for example =)

Hope blizzard get some patch out for PVT very soon, im 2200+ diamond p by myself and i think this matchup is horrible, if Protoss survives the first 15 minutes, gets 2 expansions and templar+Colossi tech terran is totaly fucked, and before p is very weak => Boring Matchup, do you have other impressions of this matchup in its current state tyler?
McDonalds
Profile Joined March 2010
Liechtenstein2244 Posts
November 18 2010 18:57 GMT
#376
I'm just going to post this again because it sounds like a lot of people posting in the thread don't know and it is sort of annoying.

The second game between FruitDealer and HongUnPrime didn't end properly. FruitDealer's computer crashed or something so they had to restart it. HongUn used the same strategy both times. The first time he seemed to have an advantage and might have won, but we'll never know. FruitDealer reacted differently the second time.
High five :---)
Xxavi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1248 Posts
November 18 2010 19:29 GMT
#377
On November 19 2010 03:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable.

Who do you think is the best protoss right now?
Xxavi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1248 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-18 19:37:49
November 18 2010 19:35 GMT
#378
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?

Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.

Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.

PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.
ShLiM
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria178 Posts
November 18 2010 19:41 GMT
#379
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?

Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.

Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.

PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.

I have to agree with this
IBASI ZMIQTA
Kyuki
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1867 Posts
November 18 2010 19:42 GMT
#380
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?

Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.

Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.

PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.


You need to learn to read and intepret posts properly before you respond.

There is no comparing, there is only the idea and theory behind why X isnt working, and why it worked now.

Imo the game on LT was a great example of how this is still a very new game and how it will keep evolve. Protoss need to evolve to go deeper in tournaments at the very highest level that's for sure.
I agree with Tyler, Testers play on LT felt really vulnurable. Protoss is very unforgiving imo, and if you have holes in your build that can be abused, those holes will be abused, especially in a series. Thus, as Tyler states, it's no surprise that Tester gets sniped in BO3s.

I'm sure Tester will come out as a even stronger player eventually, and I think he's still one of the absolut bests. I'm very glad he won .
Mada Mada Dane
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