|
|
|
http://live.gomtv.com/12042/1
Its going to be a korean stream but just click the box download the plug-in, after installed reclick the box and your gtg.
EDIT: So apparently this doesn't work, it was playing some music video earlier and i thought it would jump into the games but the stream crashed so this does not work, sorry. =(
|
ya same i wnna watch fruitdealer 
|
you and me both. i am clicking on the links, but nothing pops up. anyone speak korean?
|
I'm looking for this too I've tried opening the http://ch.gomtv.com/414 in gomplayer and it gives an error that I'm behind a firewall blah blah but I normally watch GSL
I've tried opening it in chrome but I can't read korean
I've also tried in VLC and it does nothing
|
Well, when I translated the Korean page, the warning it gave me said that "It can only be watched within the Republic of Korea"
Edit: Nvm tried the link above and although it plays I don't see nothing but music videos..
|
man , i always get a fail to download error..on the gom tv player part when it opens after i click the box. FML
|
On November 18 2010 11:43 Darhaja wrote:http://live.gomtv.com/12042/1Its going to be a korean stream but just click the box download the plug-in, after installed reclick the box and your gtg.
i live in LA, USa and that lags a bit.... would anybody be willing to restream with stable connection?
|
I'm getting music and it is stuttering.....
|
http://live.gomtv.com/12042/1 this link is just music its not the games :\ I did download a plugin though which was great but I keep getting a popup when I try going to the actual stream and I don't read korean
|
You can watch it on "2.plu.cn", chinese link, click on the "pplive" or "ppstream" to watch
it's now foxer vs zenio game 2!
|
|
|
On November 18 2010 11:48 EvilAngel wrote:
You can watch it on "2.plu.cn", chinese link, click on the "pplive" or "ppstream" to watch
it's now foxer vs zenio game 2!
Doesn't work for me some thing in chinese pops up and it just never plays
|
|
|
United States8476 Posts
I think you have to download pplive or ppstream.
|
On November 18 2010 11:51 Darhaja wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 11:48 EvilAngel wrote:
You can watch it on "2.plu.cn", chinese link, click on the "pplive" or "ppstream" to watch
it's now foxer vs zenio game 2! Doesn't work for me some thing in chinese pops up and it just never plays
I can't read chinese, I'm guessing it says 'you must use IE'
|
I opens some korean music emo videoclip...?
|
|
|
|
|
who won between FD and the toss ? any 1 can resume ?
|
On November 18 2010 12:00 KhAlleB wrote:
who won between FD and the toss ? any 1 can resume ?
i dont think they´ve been played yet...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think it's Foxer vs Zenio.
|
God that's horrible quality.
|
who won the first series?
|
Laggy or just me? >:
EDIT: left torrents on
|
Zenio dominated G2. Foxer tried to pressure with Marine / Marauder and later added Medivacs, but Zenio easily deflected Foxer's attacks with Zergling / Baneling and later added Mutalisks while macroing up to 4-5 bases while Foxer stayed on 2. Foxer pulled off his signature marine spread, but it didn't matter.
is this a BO3?
|
|
|
Thanks 
|
Foxer Thor dropping on Lost Temple
|
Both seem to be the same quality (eg can't clearly see resource/pop count). Well def still watch, thanks for the streams though.
|
havent ever seen this from foxer. could tell it was him though, because of his insane marine rape.
|
lol zenio just played sooo bad in both games he lost. Love the no gg so far 
|
maner mule and supply depot heart by foxer
|
|
|
lmfao sup depot heart from foxer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/11s127r.jpg)
Screencapped :3
|
930 Posts
awww, such a cute heart..
|
FD vs hongun next i believe
|
w00t HongUn vs FD next. Show us some carrier play plz !!!!
|
IDRA HOLDING GSL CUP
WHAT YEAR IS THIS ?
|
btw I downloaded the PPStream app to see if I could get the stream in better quality, but I can't find the GSL stream on it, it's not even under the "gaming" category. Anyone speak chinese? =\
|
Loved the heart depot diss.
Only because it was against Zenio.
|
On November 18 2010 12:18 nayumi wrote:
IDRA HOLDING GSL CUP
WHAT YEAR IS THIS ?
They played all of these ads during the GSL2 finals, it's kind of ironic now that half of the players holding the trophy in that ad didn't even qualify for GSL3...
|
|
|
fruitdealer is in 4 hours?
|
FD Hongun should be soon.
2 more matches after that in 3 1/2 hours from now
|
Fruid dealer always look like he just woke up
|
did Hongun was playing with his zealots ?
|
On November 18 2010 12:00 KhAlleB wrote:
who won between FD and the toss ? any 1 can resume ?
They are about to start playing now after they fix tech issue with FruitDealer's setup.
|
|
|
Traffic jam in FruitDealer's mineral line, haha...
|
fruitdealer early gg i think
|
|
|
haha 1:FD 0: Hongun 1:bnet nvm its FD's comp who shutdown
|
No save, no reconnect, no LAN.
B N E T 2 . 0
Unless FD actually voluntarily left, in which case I look pretty stupid.
|
|
|
oh his computer shut down? I guess Kr just has an awesome internet network.
|
It's never blizzard's fault, remember that.
|
Cool trick to push the probe past those pylons.
|
|
|
|
|
yes next match in 2.5 hours
11pm PST
|
Next matches will start at 4pm (KST).
![[image loading]](http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/1548/25228597.jpg)
4pm KST : NEXGenius vs IMNesTea
5pm KST : TSLsSks vs oGsNada
|
Anyone know if they'll be posting the vods from this up on the Korean site? I can't believe I missed a supply depot heart ;(
|
Nestea and Genius. Tester and Nada. I have to watch these games. They start real soon, is someone going to have a stream up?
|
On November 18 2010 14:53 Uncultured wrote:
Nestea and Genius. Tester and Nada. I have to watch these games. They start real soon, is someone going to have a stream up?
This guy streamed the first two sets and I think he's streaming the next two when they start: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/timetwist
|
On November 18 2010 14:58 Pervect wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 14:53 Uncultured wrote:
Nestea and Genius. Tester and Nada. I have to watch these games. They start real soon, is someone going to have a stream up? This guy streamed the first two sets and I think he's streaming the next two when they start: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/timetwist
this guys was streaming this stream: http://www.livestream.com/hellzfx
but yea i hope they stream it because its been a while since i saw tester play 
|
Starts in 25 minutes, right?
|
|
|
are there any VODs of these games?
|
streamers streamers... anybody streaming?
|
|
|
Holy crap. These matches that are about to be held are going to epic. Two of the best, if not THE best, protoss in the world finally get a chance to Duke it out. Hopefully Tester can get his PvT together, as I really think he is among the best players in the world. (when he plays at his best)
|
Any english casters restreaming the games and commenting on what's happening? Or are we stuck with korean casting.
|
Korean casting pretty fun even when you don't speak it. Half the words are just english with yyy or uuu stuck on the end so...
|
|
|
Same here until I logged into livestream account at the top .. coincidence??
|
The magical _~* 4 gate *~_
|
Genius has beastly aggression. That pressure was relentless. Such a baller!
|
Genius is a MONSTER! Hoping both him and Tester can 2-0 today, but either way Tester vs Nada should be EPIC.
|
Genius is the MASTER of forcefields. In both games he managed to pull off some perfect FFs
|
too good eco and too many units for nestea ... genius is done
|
Did they change nickname? Gstar for Genius and NesTes for NesTea? lol
|
3rd was scouted too late. Both players had really good macro but Genius needed to scout that 3rd much earlier.
|
holy shit NaDa vs Tester comes later o_0
omg im glad i got up early!
|
zero scouting and zero tech in the second game of genius, it was a allin and failed. how about a game without allin
|
That 2nd game on Xel'naga was definitely very entertaining, especially that last battle; if I'm not mistaken Genius tried to kill Nestea's third, but got flanked and detroyed by A LOT of roaches.
|
wtf is gen doing forge FE vs pool first ? omg I smell roach all in rush
|
Man i hate this toss fe building placement
And this the zerg, wny doesn't he just abuse roach range and snipe nexus
(pylon snipe earlier would have been nice too)
|
Genius wins 2-1. Nestea went Roach all-in off one base vs Genius' fast expo, but couldn't break the Cannons and gged.
|
|
|
cringe-worthy play from GSL champ
|
That was some really great stalker micro.
|
Yah, why didn't he just snipe Nexus from the start? Weeeeird.
|
|
|
extremely aggressive players + close positions on Metalopolis = quick game.
|
Wow go Genius. Nestea could have sniped the gateway then nexus instead of charging the cannons though.
|
On November 18 2010 16:42 StorrZerg wrote:
Man i hate this toss fe building placement
And this the zerg, wny doesn't he just abuse roach range and snipe nexus
(pylon snipe earlier would have been nice too)
didnt matter anymore from the moment he decided to roach all in he had to kill him. He didnt drone up and he didnt take his expo. Even if he killed the Nexus he was behind in drones etc.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 18 2010 16:44 Sfydjklm wrote:
cringe-worthy play from GSL champ
my feelings exactly
|
He literally killed like 2 cannons and a pylon on that last game... really pretty horrible
|
Genius wins! forge fe and nestea's first roach push into the nexus+cannons had VERY poor micro. that said, Genius had decent building positioning imo.
|
Nestea probably never saw this cannon placement before. Considering that Forge FE basically is a dead build nowadays, Nestea was probably very confident that he could win immediately with a roach allin.
|
So hyped for Tester vs Nada, biggest match of the Ro16 imo.
|
Nestea played poorly. Another a GSL champ going to be knocked out before round of 8 again?
|
On November 18 2010 16:45 smileyyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 16:42 StorrZerg wrote:
Man i hate this toss fe building placement
And this the zerg, wny doesn't he just abuse roach range and snipe nexus
(pylon snipe earlier would have been nice too) didnt matter anymore from the moment he decided to roach all in he had to kill him. He didnt drone up and he didnt take his expo. Even if he killed the Nexus he was behind in drones etc.
no it did matter. Much easier to kill cannons with more then one roach shooting at it, as well as less income for cannons(although i do realize cannons are like free) and reinforcements.
|
Genius has insanely good aggression. He also has some of the best fast expand roach defense too. If he improved his scouting he would be a crazy beast of a player.
|
Wow, neither of these players demonstrated anything special. In each game, there was a serious blunder. First game, Nestea goes for FE, and then gets punished, cannot defend properly. Good micro from Genius, but nothing extraordinary.
Second game, Genius doesn't scout at all, and doesn't know about 3rd expo of Nestea. Sits and defends the gold expo for a long time, and then realizes he is behind when he sees third expo and just gives up, gets surrounded and GGs. Terrible scouting from Genius.
Third game. Protoss FEs, and Zerg decides roach all in. Cannot execute, and just dies. Terrible game from NesTea. Quite simply, both players aren't solid.
|
United States7166 Posts
forge fe's far from a dead build and cannons are definitely a safe way to expo vs roach
|
On November 18 2010 16:47 Imperfect1987 wrote:
Nestea played poorly. Another a GSL champ going to be knocked out before round of 8 again?
What? FruitDealer won. There are no other GSL champs.
|
Yeah nestea was definitely not on top of his game today... Hopefully he'll wake up and make it far in the gsl3
edit; just because they didn't play well today doesn't mean that these guys are bad or overrated. They are simply not solid and consistent enough. But they're getting there every game is an opportunity to become better
|
On November 18 2010 16:47 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 16:47 Imperfect1987 wrote:
Nestea played poorly. Another a GSL champ going to be knocked out before round of 8 again? What? FruitDealer won. There are no other GSL champs.
Did you miss GSL2 or something?
|
the best players make mistakes still, roach rush is a soft counter to protoss FE especially in close positions, nestea went all in and committed too hard to the cannons, he obviously knows he should have just killed the pylon and ran up to the main or sniped the nexus
|
On November 18 2010 16:48 mrflakes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 16:47 jalstar wrote:On November 18 2010 16:47 Imperfect1987 wrote:
Nestea played poorly. Another a GSL champ going to be knocked out before round of 8 again? What? FruitDealer won. There are no other GSL champs. Did you miss GSL2 or something?
Nestea got knocked out and FruitDealer won. Who's the other GSL champ Imperfect is talking about.
|
On November 18 2010 16:44 Sfydjklm wrote:
cringe-worthy play from GSL champ It really was.
7 roach rush into 1 base all-in vs 2 base protoss. What was he thinking?
|
On November 18 2010 16:48 floorboard wrote:
the best players make mistakes still, roach rush is a soft counter to protoss FE especially in close positions, nestea went all in and committed too hard to the cannons, he obviously knows he should have just killed the pylon and ran up to the main or sniped the nexus
He could have tried, but Genius had the awesome pylon at the top of the ramp that created a total wall-in. He would have lost all his roaches had he went for it.
|
Nestea great in ZvZ and really good in ZvT. I think ZvP his worst MU, he needs practice against decent protoss.
|
On November 18 2010 16:44 kmkg wrote:
Yah, why didn't he just snipe Nexus from the start? Weeeeird.
Pylon as part of the wall, screaming for a baneling bust :S
but yeah, he easily could have snipped that nexus with just 4-6 roaches and expanded himself.
On November 18 2010 16:50 pencilcase wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 16:48 floorboard wrote:
the best players make mistakes still, roach rush is a soft counter to protoss FE especially in close positions, nestea went all in and committed too hard to the cannons, he obviously knows he should have just killed the pylon and ran up to the main or sniped the nexus He could have tried, but Genius had the awesome pylon at the top of the ramp that created a total wall-in. He would have lost all his roaches had he went for it.
Nah even if he made the pylon he could have ran roaches back, pylon was the easy kill and at the time only one cannon was in range of ramp, He should have taken the easy building kills rather than going into the worst possible spot to snipe cannons
|
These players are miles away from SC:BW pros, who know about all expansions in huge maps. These SC2 maps are relatively small, and yet, these guys can't keep up seeing when opponent is taking the expansions.
|
On November 18 2010 16:49 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 16:48 mrflakes wrote:On November 18 2010 16:47 jalstar wrote:On November 18 2010 16:47 Imperfect1987 wrote:
Nestea played poorly. Another a GSL champ going to be knocked out before round of 8 again? What? FruitDealer won. There are no other GSL champs. Did you miss GSL2 or something? Nestea got knocked out and FruitDealer won. Who's the other GSL champ Imperfect is talking about.
Maybe he meant Nestea in gsl 3, like what happened to FD in gsl 2? Not sure haha
omg cmon nadaa.. tester too. I wanna see both of them tear down the house, get some confidence after the qualifiers
|
On November 18 2010 16:52 Xxavi wrote:
These players are miles away from SC:BW pros, who know about all expansions in huge maps. These SC2 maps are relatively small, and yet, these guys can't keep up seeing when opponent is taking the expansions.
Apples and oranges, dude.
Anyways NaDa vs sSKS is going to be legendary.
|
On November 18 2010 16:52 Xxavi wrote:
These players are miles away from SC:BW pros, who know about all expansions in huge maps. These SC2 maps are relatively small, and yet, these guys can't keep up seeing when opponent is taking the expansions.
You mean like when Sea went the whole game without finding Baby's third and got crushed even though Baby was just fucking around after the five minute mark?
|
On November 18 2010 16:52 Xxavi wrote:
These players are miles away from SC:BW pros, who know about all expansions in huge maps. These SC2 maps are relatively small, and yet, these guys can't keep up seeing when opponent is taking the expansions.
The players are trying to develop the right timings and deal with patch changes on the fly. They're inventing the gameplay as they go. Of course the level of play isn't going to be as consistent as BW.
|
|
|
LEE YUN YEOL HWAITING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come on!
|
GO NADA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
Don't fuck this one up Tester.
|
Kinda unlucky that two big losers of GSL3 qualifiers have to face each other. One will end up a loser again. Tough luck.
Love Nada, but come on Protoss, come on Tester!
|
Malaysia252 Posts
|
United Kingdom2950 Posts
roflmao; they're using the razer headphones - CRAZY lights.
|
u guys are favoring Tester over NADA...
wut?
|
Orinarily I'd root for Nada...but I want to see more P players so I'm rooting for Tester...doesn't feel right, though.
|
STREAM DIED FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.
Probably the match i most want to watch =[
|
We're investigating this issue as fast as possible. Everything should be back up and running soon, so please bear with us. Thank you for your patience.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think LiveStream may have canned the channel...
|
Right when the match that I wanted to see most started!
|
Ustream did the same, too. Way to get anybody not in S. Korea enamored with eSports. /s
|
Stream dies, so I come back to this thread to look for the other stream that was listed... and that is just a restream of the restream!
IT'S BACK
|
Ustream is back up, but laggy on the guy's computer.
|
On November 18 2010 17:06 KevinAce wrote:
I think LiveStream may have canned the channel... Scratch that. Just a technical error for them it seems. It's back now.
|
|
|
WOW miracle defense by sSKS
|
How the fuck did he hold that.
God I missed Tester.
|
Damn, how did he hold that?
|
United Kingdom2950 Posts
holy shit - that was a mad hold by sSKS.
|
What a fucking hold. Tester FTW!
|
That was one of the most most spectacular defenses I have ever seen.
|
Finally some forcefields worth being called nice. It's so annoying when the most trivial F spam is being praised by commentators and fans alike.
also how much apm is yellow/white?:D
|
it's supposed to be back, yet i just get endless spinning circles, anyone knows how to fix that?
|
whoot whoot foxer! love that guy
|
Isn't this a fine kettle of whatever
|
Nada taking his gold. Man his macro seems perfect. So many marauders !
|
Why don't you guys just use the official stream? Rather than complain about how they don't care about esports lol.
Anyways yeah Tester held that off like a hero. Would've been so much easier with 2 collosi.
|
Looks to me like tester has too few gateway units
|
What stream are you watching'? Can' seem to find any
|
On November 18 2010 17:12 epik640x wrote:
Why don't you guys just use the official stream? Rather than complain about how they don't care about esports lol.
Anyways yeah Tester held that off like a hero. Would've been so much easier with 2 collosi.
My apartment blocks the port which the gomtv player uses to connect
|
On November 18 2010 17:12 epik640x wrote:
Why don't you guys just use the official stream? Rather than complain about how they don't care about esports lol.
Anyways yeah Tester held that off like a hero. Would've been so much easier with 2 collosi.
Because they won't let anybody outside of Korea connect to the official stream. May I remind you that South Korea is one of the top 3 most wired countries in the world? An entire average neighborhood in the US has as much bandwidth as one of their mid-top tier HOME Internet pipes. Bandwidth should not be a problem.
|
The battle of the MILLENIUM is about to take place here.
It started !
sSKS reached collossi's critical mass.
|
man I miss Tester and his incredible defence... thank God he got code S so we will see him a lot next year!
|
the epicness of this game is drastically decreasing because of this lag....
|
TESTER broke that shit like it was nothing!
|
|
|
Did Tester lose even 1 colossus? Wow, what a player.
|
|
|
On November 18 2010 17:12 epik640x wrote:
Why don't you guys just use the official stream? Rather than complain about how they don't care about esports lol.
Anyways yeah Tester held that off like a hero. Would've been so much easier with 2 collosi.
the official stream doesn't let me connect.
restreaming takes a ton of bandwidth load off their servers.
|
Nada is really playing the wrong race for his style. Macro-terran really doesn't work well
|
Tester is such a monster, thought Nada had a perfect contain.
|
|
|
On November 18 2010 17:15 vectorix108 wrote:
thats a LOT of collosi
And Phoenixes.... o.O, dont think any vikings got a shot on those collosi
|
lool phoenix are so sick xD
|
|
|
not good for tester, should have lifted the marauders before, now he has no collosi and is several bases behind.
gg
|
wow never seen a huge group of phoenix use like that against terran.
|
United Kingdom2950 Posts
look at that gas NaDa is floating; man, Phoenix Collos are beast.
EDIT: FUCK YEAH FIREBAT AVATAR.
|
Argh 8 colossus and still lose a ground battle.
Not enough sentries I guess.
|
Stream works for me (the ustream one), but super laggy.
|
Tester showin that he hasn't lost his steam... AWESOME phoenix micro, saved him the game (if he wins)
|
If NaDa keeps on massing MM Tester will win
Terrans fighting~ rofl :/
|
it is such a shame tester didnt qualify for gsl3...
|
How did these 2 not qualify for GSL? :/
|
sSKS !!!!!!!!! pulling off some BW-esque HT harass
|
GSL is stacked and bo3 is risky. Let alone 3 to 5 bo3s.
|
On November 18 2010 17:23 cuppatea wrote:
How did these 2 not qualify for GSL? :/
They play Broodwar style instead of SC2 style
|
Switched over to livestream, much better, barely watching now but can tell this was a crazy game.
|
Yeah I honestly don't know how either player qualified... blasphemy if you ask me. They are both so insanely high level, this game itself is ridiculously epic.
|
Can't believe both of them are not in gsl3.
Such a travesty.
|
sick, sick battle. storms going off everywhere!
|
|
|
51450 Posts
why get tanks in tvp. they are awful.
|
AMAZING game. god. why cant all gsl games be like that!?!?!?
|
wow tester.. how is this guy not qualifying. crazy micro.
|
Oh.my.god. sSKS absolutely destroying NaDa's army...
This guy KNOWS how to play protoss. Right now I'm laughing at the people who said Tester was overrated. They know who they are.
|
as far as im concerned this was the best pvt to date in sc2.
|
On November 18 2010 17:26 GTR wrote:
why get tanks in tvp. they are awful.
what else do u want to build vs colo/ht
everything melts
|
I want a replay of the Tester vs Nada
that was amazing
|
Really think that Nada could have been well served by a switch into battlecruisers against that particular army.
|
Wow! Tester so gosu! What a great game that put a smile on my face!
|
Without marines, phoenixes are pretty good vs vikings.
On November 18 2010 17:26 zomgad wrote:what else do u want to build vs colo/ht everything melts
Thors would've been better I think. Would've helped out vs phoenixes too.
|
On November 18 2010 17:22 Daray wrote:
If NaDa keeps on massing MM Tester will win
Terrans fighting~ rofl :/
Who needs thors anyway :{
|
On November 18 2010 17:26 GTR wrote:
why get tanks in tvp. they are awful.
I actually disagree with you there in that situation they were awful though I can 100% agree with you on that. I thought he was gonna do thors I think that would have been good.
|
that was a pretty epic game, to say the least
|
United Kingdom2950 Posts
|
That was an amazing TvP.
I'm so glad those two are S class.
|
It's sad that these 2 didn't qualify, they put up a really good fight. Tester especially.
|
51450 Posts
On November 18 2010 17:27 blade55555 wrote:I actually disagree with you there in that situation they were awful though I can 100% agree with you on that. I thought he was gonna do thors I think that would have been good.
i thought he was going to get thors too. they cut through phoenixes like a hot knife through butter.
|
What can you do againts protoss late game .. everything looks so weak compared to a toss ball. Pheonix counter tanks, viking, medivacs and collosi are pure power.
Not a whine just seems hard for terran to do something againts that.
|
On November 18 2010 17:27 blade55555 wrote:I actually disagree with you there in that situation they were awful though I can 100% agree with you on that. I thought he was gonna do thors I think that would have been good.
Thors was my first thought also, and I think that would have been a really strong transition for him. Tanks, not so much.
|
I'd like to see some of the late game style PainUser showed against Tyler at MLG Dallas in PvT's... seemed to work well vs a Protoss that expects MMM forever.
|
United Kingdom2950 Posts
On November 18 2010 17:27 blade55555 wrote:I actually disagree with you there in that situation they were awful though I can 100% agree with you on that. I thought he was gonna do thors I think that would have been good.
Yeah I agree -- Tanks in some situations are good, but not with that many phoenix out. Thors would've torn through the phoenix like they do against mutas when clumped together. Also, NaDa should've just used his vikings to target-fire the Collos - Phoenix don't do amazing damage vs non-light units.
|
That match was so high level. You could tell Tester and Nada were both straining to keep up. That was amazing.
|
thors are terribad vs a lot of colossus
and they suck hard vs phoenix... dunno what you guys are smoking :0!
its not like phoenix are a smallball, not to mention you gotta focus with your thors because they dont aim them by default
|
most impressive thing to me was holding the first push... those forcefields were beutiful to stop that with just one collosus
edit: and it takes so much discipline to sit there and macro up/get air upgrades against that huge marauder viking contain... i'm still amazed that he broke that. the camera also missed a warp prism that did a ton of damage.. we saw it making and we saw nada way behind on income (despite having a gold with tester contained) but we didn't see the first drop
|
On November 18 2010 17:28 Drey wrote:
What can you do againts protoss late game .. everything looks so weak compared to a toss ball. Pheonix counter tanks, viking, medivacs and collosi are pure power.
Not a whine just seems hard for terran to do something againts that.
But did you see how Tester survived to late game? He had an epic defense right at the start of the game, it was ridiculous.
Then, he was under a contain, which he broke off without losing a single colossus. You make it sound as if it is easy to get to late game for P against T. Most P would have died under such Nada pressure.
|
On November 18 2010 17:28 Pervect wrote:
I'd like to see some of the late game style PainUser showed against Tyler at MLG Dallas in PvT's... seemed to work well vs a Protoss that expects MMM forever.
He just needed to mass thors there... PainUser style wouldn't have worked because he had a million phoenix out already
|
Tester actually lost to IMmvp in the qualifications which is in my opinion one of the 3 best korean terran.
It really is just a coin toss for the qualifiers, because mvp vs Tester easily could've been an ro8 or even semis matchup.
Sooo unfortate. Thanks god that he's already S-Class.
|
On November 18 2010 17:31 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:28 Pervect wrote:
I'd like to see some of the late game style PainUser showed against Tyler at MLG Dallas in PvT's... seemed to work well vs a Protoss that expects MMM forever. He just needed to mass thors there... PainUser style wouldn't have worked because he had a million phoenix out already
But painusers style was thors late game pvt
|
On November 18 2010 17:30 kirbynator wrote:
thors are terribad vs a lot of colossus
and they suck hard vs phoenix... dunno what you guys are smoking :0!
its not like phoenix are a smallball, not to mention you gotta focus with your thors because they dont aim them by default
Adding thors would've been the best choice there by far... no idea what you're smoking.
|
mass thors vs mass colo lol, play the game first
|
On November 18 2010 17:32 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:31 Daray wrote:On November 18 2010 17:28 Pervect wrote:
I'd like to see some of the late game style PainUser showed against Tyler at MLG Dallas in PvT's... seemed to work well vs a Protoss that expects MMM forever. He just needed to mass thors there... PainUser style wouldn't have worked because he had a million phoenix out already But painusers style was thors late game pvt
Thors and Banshees :D
|
On November 18 2010 17:32 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:31 Daray wrote:On November 18 2010 17:28 Pervect wrote:
I'd like to see some of the late game style PainUser showed against Tyler at MLG Dallas in PvT's... seemed to work well vs a Protoss that expects MMM forever. He just needed to mass thors there... PainUser style wouldn't have worked because he had a million phoenix out already But painusers style was thors late game pvt
PainUser style was thor,banshee, blueflame hellion.
|
Nada needs to change his style if he wants to be relevant in SC2. As much as I love the guy and his style, these big macro games with Terran are just not viable vs good competition
|
United Kingdom2950 Posts
On November 18 2010 17:30 kirbynator wrote:
thors are terribad vs a lot of colossus
and they suck hard vs phoenix... dunno what you guys are smoking :0!
its not like phoenix are a smallball, not to mention you gotta focus with your thors because they dont aim them by default
Phoenix are light - They clump up when they attack, and so the Thor's AA would rip through the amount of phoenix sSKS had. Thors also possess the 250mm Strike Cannon attack, which 1-shots immortals and most importantly, stuns any unit except the Ultralisk. Seeing as the Collosi was the highest dps unit, 2 or 3 thors stunning a Collo and ripping through the phoenix numbers with a couple of volleys would have helped a lot.
|
Oh wow.. didnt think he would survive that contain..
|
On November 18 2010 17:32 NotShade wrote:Tester actually lost to IMmvp in the qualifications which is in my opinion one of the 3 best korean terran. It really is just a coin toss for the qualifiers, because mvp vs Tester easily could've been an ro8 or even semis matchup. Sooo unfortate. Thanks god that he's already S-Class.
Not really, Tester lost to LittleKid (꼬마).
|
WTF Tester; wish I could play toss well.
|
Tester looks so hardcore when he is playing. I LOVE IT!
|
GG Tester! What a beast =3
|
|
|
jesus christ tester is playing so well.
gom plz seed gsl prelims better.
|
nada got break. holy shit.
|
ROFL... I'm speechless. sSKS looks so solid, it's actually scary.
|
On November 18 2010 17:32 NotShade wrote:Tester actually lost to IMmvp in the qualifications which is in my opinion one of the 3 best korean terran. It really is just a coin toss for the qualifiers, because mvp vs Tester easily could've been an ro8 or even semis matchup. Sooo unfortate. Thanks god that he's already S-Class.
Oh, I didn't know that. So Tester had to play MVP?
Damn, why they made such a freaking bracket???
|
Nada looking sexy as always
|
How did Tester not qualify lollllll
|
testeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
protoss fighting!!!
this is what ive been waiting for :D
|
jesus fuck tester is AWESOME
so sad that this beast wasn't in the last 2 GSLs
|
On November 18 2010 17:34 Wunder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:30 kirbynator wrote:
thors are terribad vs a lot of colossus
and they suck hard vs phoenix... dunno what you guys are smoking :0!
its not like phoenix are a smallball, not to mention you gotta focus with your thors because they dont aim them by default Phoenix are light - They clump up when they attack, and so the Thor's AA would rip through the amount of phoenix sSKS had. Thors also possess the 250mm Strike Cannon attack, which 1-shots immortals and most importantly, stuns any unit except the Ultralisk. Seeing as the Collosi was the highest dps unit, 2 or 3 thors stunning a Collo and ripping through the phoenix numbers with a couple of volleys would have helped a lot.
Aren't collossi massive as well? :S
|
Unbelievable play by both Genius and Tester, really representing Protoss
|
Incredible. I think that was the coolest contain break I've ever seen. Tester is a MONSTER!
|
|
|
and he can't even qualify 2 GSL in a row when he plays as good as this? against F-ing NaDa?
GG, awesome games!
|
Amazing games, I think a lot of the real GSL is gonna deep disappointing after watching some of these games today. Seriously "high level play", and tomorrow could be even better...
|
Damn tastosis was right, tester looks like an absolute killer.
|
On November 18 2010 17:34 Lann555 wrote:
Nada needs to change his style if he wants to be relevant in SC2. As much as I love the guy and his style, these big macro games with Terran are just not viable vs good competition
No, you cannot blame him with that, unless you wanted a cheese in these series. He attacked Tester early in both games, but Tester is just sublime with his defense. Wow.
|
|
|
"starcraftman2: No, Nada may be bad. Protoss is the worst race in GSL 3;starcraftman2: No reason for Nada not to win that"
This guy made me chuckle
|
cliiide why are you so good as a practice partner?
|
On November 18 2010 17:36 radiaL wrote:jesus fuck tester is AWESOME so sad that this beast wasn't in the last 2 GSLs
He was in GSL 1, he is S-Class.
|
I have no idea what kind of voodoo happened to Tester in the GSL qualifiers but those games he just played were amazing.
|
Man tester's play always impresses me, it always seem so perfect.
|
Wow, I really wish Tester had made it into GSL2 and 3, so disappointed that neither him and nada made it.
+ Show Spoiler +I seriously thought tester was done for in the second game when Nada had such a solid contain on him, 2 bunkers and 4 sieged tank but he managed to still roll through and come out ahead!
|
I was amazed at how good Tester managed to defend huge forces with such small forces. He even countered after crushing that scary siege tank push. Was impressive!
|
Go tester, go tester! NesTea out though :O Wanna see those games! Also wanna know why IdrA thinks he is such a bad player. Kinda weird Oo.
|
I love you, Tester, I don't care what anybody says about you. Keep teaching everybody how to play the game.
|
On November 18 2010 17:28 Drey wrote:
What can you do againts protoss late game .. everything looks so weak compared to a toss ball. Pheonix counter tanks, viking, medivacs and collosi are pure power.
Not a whine just seems hard for terran to do something againts that.
BC or thors , since tanks get countered by a lot of things .
|
the 2 lifted siege tanks made a huge difference
|
Seriously, the guys administrating GSL need to fix their qualification system. Tester is just miles ahead of every other Protoss in the world.
|
GSL4 is going to be fucking amazing. With players like Tester not getting knocked out from random brackets, the tournament is just going to explode with matches like this one was.
|
On November 18 2010 17:38 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:36 radiaL wrote:jesus fuck tester is AWESOME so sad that this beast wasn't in the last 2 GSLs He was in GSL 1, he is S-Class.
yea i know i counted the current one
|
United Kingdom2950 Posts
On November 18 2010 17:36 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:34 Wunder wrote:On November 18 2010 17:30 kirbynator wrote:
thors are terribad vs a lot of colossus
and they suck hard vs phoenix... dunno what you guys are smoking :0!
its not like phoenix are a smallball, not to mention you gotta focus with your thors because they dont aim them by default Phoenix are light - They clump up when they attack, and so the Thor's AA would rip through the amount of phoenix sSKS had. Thors also possess the 250mm Strike Cannon attack, which 1-shots immortals and most importantly, stuns any unit except the Ultralisk. Seeing as the Collosi was the highest dps unit, 2 or 3 thors stunning a Collo and ripping through the phoenix numbers with a couple of volleys would have helped a lot. Aren't collossi massive as well? :S
Massive doesn't mean anything - it's just a unit type, Ultralisks have a specific trait that renders them immune to slow, stun or mind control.
|
When is the Ro8 taking place? I know nothing about this.
|
On November 18 2010 17:38 SenorChang wrote:Wow, I really wish Tester had made it into GSL2 and 3, so disappointed that neither him and nada made it. + Show Spoiler +I seriously thought tester was done for in the second game when Nada had such a solid contain on him, 2 bunkers and 4 sieged tank but he managed to still roll through and come out ahead!
I thought he was done in the first too, that first big push would have killed almost every other protoss on earth.
|
On November 18 2010 17:40 radiaL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:38 Roggay wrote:On November 18 2010 17:36 radiaL wrote:jesus fuck tester is AWESOME so sad that this beast wasn't in the last 2 GSLs He was in GSL 1, he is S-Class. yea i know i counted the current one
Lol, I have no idea how you can count GSL 3 in the "Last 2 GSLs" 
|
Now, please, tell me that Tester is not on the levels of best terran and zerg players? The guy oozes class, has a huge WOW factor, unlike Genius, who is consistent with beating inferior players, but too academic and very little wow factor.
Tester rules, I am sad he didn't qualify.Those 2 games... man, both were awesome.
|
I think the best bit was him catching the rallied siege tank with his phoenix and lifting it. SO GOOD MR TESTER.
|
On November 18 2010 17:39 wristuzi wrote:
Go tester, go tester! NesTea out though :O Wanna see those games! Also wanna know why IdrA thinks he is such a bad player. Kinda weird Oo.
Well IdrA also smack talked Zenio in that interview too even though Zenio completely dominated him so who cares.
|
On November 18 2010 17:39 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:28 Drey wrote:
What can you do againts protoss late game .. everything looks so weak compared to a toss ball. Pheonix counter tanks, viking, medivacs and collosi are pure power.
Not a whine just seems hard for terran to do something againts that. BC or thors , since tanks get countered by a lot of things .
tanks are still good as a support unit to kil hts/sentries, just their dps went down to drain after multiple (over?)nerfs, think they were still better than mass thors people advise here lol
|
On November 18 2010 17:40 Jacobs Ladder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:38 SenorChang wrote:Wow, I really wish Tester had made it into GSL2 and 3, so disappointed that neither him and nada made it. + Show Spoiler +I seriously thought tester was done for in the second game when Nada had such a solid contain on him, 2 bunkers and 4 sieged tank but he managed to still roll through and come out ahead! I thought he was done in the first too, that first big push would have killed almost every other protoss on earth.
Ya I know wat you mean, he defended with so little I thought so many times in both games that 'Man it's over for Tester now' and in the first game he defended with like 1 colossus, 2 immortals and a handful of gateway units vs mass marine / maruader lol. Was so impressive
|
Jeez, Nada was completely not aggressive enough this series imo. He should have won both of those games but sat on his ass and lost.
Game 1, he killed testers entire army, and remacro'ed while tester switched tech. Terran always has a better army in smaller numbers than toss, and Nada should have known that and used the opportunity to deny expansions. Also, where were the ghosts? I only saw a few EMP's very late in the game. EMP could have shout down the phoenix's lift which would have won Nada the game in the first huge battle, or later it could have stopped the phoenix's from lifting the tanks.
Game 2, he scanned and say tester's army, which obviously would have been owned had nada moved up the ramp. I respect the ptsd on sentry FF's, but nada could have leap frogged with tanks, or stimmed up with marines and followed with tanks.
I dunno, maybe i'm reading the games poorly, but I feel like Nada had extremely poor decision making and it cost him both games.
|
On November 18 2010 17:41 [rS]Aizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:40 radiaL wrote:On November 18 2010 17:38 Roggay wrote:On November 18 2010 17:36 radiaL wrote:jesus fuck tester is AWESOME so sad that this beast wasn't in the last 2 GSLs He was in GSL 1, he is S-Class. yea i know i counted the current one Lol, I have no idea how you can count GSL 3 in the "Last 2 GSLs"
Language difference i guess
will there be more matches today?
|
I thought that NaDa could have made a lot better decisions, siege tanks and mmm against colossus and pheonix play? Thors are the way to go.
|
On November 18 2010 17:40 HolyArrow wrote:
When is the Ro8 taking place? I know nothing about this.
Have a look at the TL tourny tracker
|
Anyone has VODs of the 2 games?
|
When are the next games taking place? And is there anywhere I can see VODs of the matches I missed?
|
Don't listen to Idra. When he wins GSL, then he will have a right to talk about players like NesTea. Though even then, it will sound arrogant and BM.
I cannot believe people take him seriously. He thinks if he wins, it will mean a good player won. I mean come fucking on. There's at least 10 players comfortably better than him, the guy's deluded.
Never saw an Idra game with a "WOW" factor. He is a Zerg Genius. Plays well with similar strategies etc., good generally, but never impresses to the fullest. Unlike Genius, he cannot achieve notable results though.
|
|
|
On November 18 2010 17:39 wristuzi wrote:
Go tester, go tester! NesTea out though :O Wanna see those games! Also wanna know why IdrA thinks he is such a bad player. Kinda weird Oo.
He's not a bad player, but from the games he played, he didn't show any stroke of brilliance other than in ZvZ where he claims he is a specialist. He just happened to win.
On the other hand, when players watch Fruitdealer, they go "Wow".
|
When Tester playing, it seems protoss OP.
|
On November 18 2010 17:43 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
Jeez, Nada was completely not aggressive enough this series imo. He should have won both of those games but sat on his ass and lost.
Game 1, he killed testers entire army, and remacro'ed while tester switched tech. Terran always has a better army in smaller numbers than toss, and Nada should have known that and used the opportunity to deny expansions. Also, where were the ghosts? I only saw a few EMP's very late in the game. EMP could have shout down the phoenix's lift which would have won Nada the game in the first huge battle, or later it could have stopped the phoenix's from lifting the tanks.
Game 2, he scanned and say tester's army, which obviously would have been owned had nada moved up the ramp. I respect the ptsd on sentry FF's, but nada could have leap frogged with tanks, or stimmed up with marines and followed with tanks.
I dunno, maybe i'm reading the games poorly, but I feel like Nada had extremely poor decision making and it cost him both games.
Did we watch the same games? Nada was pretty aggressive in both. He almost killed Tester in both games. I don't know how many Protoss players would hold that. I would say none bar Tester.
|
On November 18 2010 17:46 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:44 HolyArrow wrote:
When are the next games taking place? And is there anywhere I can see VODs of the matches I missed? Tomorrow at 11.30am KST - 2 sets,  RainBOw vs  TheWinD InCa vs MakaThen more at 4pm KST - 2 more sets Ensnare vs KyrixSangHo vs BoxeR
Thanks.
So does anyone know if VODs exist?
|
Nice. 2 GSL2 rematches.
I would normally root for Ensnare over Kyrix, but I'd really like to see another BoxeR vs Kyrix.
|
On November 18 2010 17:49 TMTurtle wrote:Nice. 2 GSL2 rematches. I would normally root for Ensnare over Kyrix, but I'd really like to see another BoxeR vs Kyrix.
Actually this is Slayers_Boxer playing.
|
I think its slayers boxer....ninjad
|
Replays should be @ http://sc2rep.com/ soon. The FoxeR/Zenio and FD/HongUn games are there, and they are the same tourney earlier today.
|
Well then nevermind! I didn't click the link to check :/
|
On November 18 2010 17:47 Affics wrote:
When Tester playing, it seems protoss OP.
Yes, because 2 players who didn't qualify playing each other is a much better indicator than the actual tournament.
|
http://ch.gomtv.com/414/28195/394412
VOD? Won't play for me though, not sure what the error says - do you need an account?
The video can be watched from within the Republic of Korea.
Well fuck
|
I felt that the NaDa vs tester game showed very well how important it is for Terran to transition out of MMM in the late game in TvP especially against Pheonix/Colossus play.
|
On November 18 2010 17:52 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote:Replays should be @ http://sc2rep.com/ soon. The FoxeR/Zenio and FD/HongUn games are there, and they are the same tourney earlier today.
Cool. Hope we see the others on there soon! Thanks.
|
On November 18 2010 17:55 Moragon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:47 Affics wrote:
When Tester playing, it seems protoss OP. Yes, because 2 players who didn't qualify playing each other is a much better indicator than the actual tournament.
Actually both of these players have proven them selves already and are rated S-class. >.>
Just because they got unlucky with qualifiers doesn't mean they are bad players.
|
On November 18 2010 17:52 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote:Replays should be @ http://sc2rep.com/ soon. The FoxeR/Zenio and FD/HongUn games are there, and they are the same tourney earlier today.
They are VODS not replays, but thanks though!
|
Did not watch any match today. Can anyone recommend any games involving T or P?
I heard Tester vs NaDa was amazing but nothing of other matchups so far.
|
On November 18 2010 17:52 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote:Replays should be @ http://sc2rep.com/ soon. The FoxeR/Zenio and FD/HongUn games are there, and they are the same tourney earlier today.
They are actually VOD's not replays, I bet you just got a bunch of peoples hopes up
|
I'm not sure why people are complaining about Nadas play.. both games I thought multiple times "tester is fucked"
Game 1 he hit the timing exactly with his first push.. got there when he had only one collosus against that big marine/marauder ball. only held because of crazy forcefields
Also that contain he had with the marauder/viking.. what else could he do? I never thought that would be broken like it was. You can't actually attack into that many collosus.. it would have been the same fight but even worse because his bio would have had to clump up. He tried to rally bio in off his three bases after the fight but there were too many phoenixes left.
Even with the contain being broken he still had a gold up and a ton of shit and he added ghosts but Tester had some good drops and once you get to that point (every upgrade, warp-in storms, 4-5 collosus, tons of upgrades phoenixes) theres not much Terran can do. His macro was ridiculous all game.. towards the end he was on 5 bases at 200 food and his money was still around 400/400 from getting so many upgrades. Nada was sitting at over 3k gas :x
Game 2.. first off he starts out with the fucking terrifying banshee/raven/marine/tank push but Tester gets phoenixes so he smartly abandons it. He had another huge contain that barely got broken. Most people would not have broken that but Tester played so smart waiting to the last second to get as many immortals as possible and picking off the rallied tanks with phoenixes.
|
is it just me or does that link not seem to be working?
|
On November 18 2010 18:00 shannn wrote:
Did not watch any match today. Can anyone recommend any games involving T or P?
I heard Tester vs NaDa was amazing but nothing of other matchups so far.
Fruitdealer V Hongun was really bad.
Only caught the last game of Genius V NesTea, it was alright.
Tester V Nada was nothing short of amazing. I highly recommend it.
|
On November 18 2010 17:46 WeeKeong wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 17:39 wristuzi wrote:
Go tester, go tester! NesTea out though :O Wanna see those games! Also wanna know why IdrA thinks he is such a bad player. Kinda weird Oo. He's not a bad player, but from the games he played, he didn't show any stroke of brilliance other than in ZvZ where he claims he is a specialist. He just happened to win. On the other hand, when players watch Fruitdealer, they go "Wow".
Well, I don't entirely agree, I think NesTea is an awesome player Was just wondering if IdrA had a particular reason for his BM, but there doesn't seem to be.
The vods are usually up on sc2.plu.cn a while after most gomTV events. I checked now and don't think they're uploaded, even though the game names are there. I'm also finding the vods a lot easier to use these days, they actually load/buffer properly and quickly, even though the quality is bad (but it's better than nothing ^^).
|
On November 18 2010 18:02 iNversion wrote:
is it just me or does that link not seem to be working?
the games are over for today
|
On November 18 2010 12:00 KhAlleB wrote:
who won between FD and the toss ? any 1 can resume ?
+ Show Spoiler +FD 2:0ed HungUnPrime
First game XelNaga, Hungun went blinkstalkers of one base while FD fast expanded and defended the rush with roaches and speedlings. FD went for a counterattack and won with speedroaches
Second game LT, HungUn went for a Fastexpansion and a doublepylonwallin at FDs choke.
But FD teched to lair, and nydus wormed in the middle of HungUns base and won.
|
On November 18 2010 18:07 dagene wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 18:02 iNversion wrote:
is it just me or does that link not seem to be working? the games are over for today
I meant the sc2rep.com link he gave for VODs. I missed the Foxer v Zenio match and wanted to check it out.
|
On November 18 2010 18:00 shannn wrote:
Did not watch any match today. Can anyone recommend any games involving T or P?
I heard Tester vs NaDa was amazing but nothing of other matchups so far.
+ Show Spoiler +I didn't see Foxer vs Zenio
Hongun vs Fruitdealer was ugly. Failed blink stalker all-in on Xel'naga and he tried to cannon contain on LT but FD just got roaches and nydus and killed him easily.
Genius v Nestea: First game was weird. Stream came in late but it looked like a failed 6 pool on steps (Genius had a pylon completely walling in and Nestea had very few drones). Not a very good game.
Game 2 was the best game. Fairly back and forth game its worth watching
Game 3 Nestea tries to one base roach all-in against Genius forge expanding close on metal. Horribly decisions/micro from Nestea not a very good game to watch
Both Tester/Nada games were great. Especially game one
|
anyone got VOD's for the matches shitty school internet screwed up my live streaming D:
|
why the hell ssks dont play like this on qualifiers ?
|
On November 18 2010 18:02 adrift wrote:
I'm not sure why people are complaining about Nadas play.. both games I thought multiple times "tester is fucked"
Game 1 he hit the timing exactly with his first push.. got there when he had only one collosus against that big marine/marauder ball. only held because of crazy forcefields
Also that contain he had with the marauder/viking.. what else could he do? I never thought that would be broken like it was. You can't actually attack into that many collosus.. it would have been the same fight but even worse because his bio would have had to clump up. He tried to rally bio in off his three bases after the fight but there were too many phoenixes left.
Even with the contain being broken he still had a gold up and a ton of shit and he added ghosts but Tester had some good drops and once you get to that point (every upgrade, warp-in storms, 4-5 collosus, tons of upgrades phoenixes) theres not much Terran can do. His macro was ridiculous all game.. towards the end he was on 5 bases at 200 food and his money was still around 400/400 from getting so many upgrades. Nada was sitting at over 3k gas :x
Game 2.. first off he starts out with the fucking terrifying banshee/raven/marine/tank push but Tester gets phoenixes so he smartly abandons it. He had another huge contain that barely got broken. Most people would not have broken that but Tester played so smart waiting to the last second to get as many immortals as possible and picking off the rallied tanks with phoenixes.
Its because in the first game especially siege tanks was the exact wrong transition. This is because in PvT Phoenix's will just lift the tanks. Thors would have been a much better transition even Thors with tanks support would have been spot on. I was surprised NaDa did not transition out of mmmv when Phoenix Colossus owns it so hard.
In the second game tester did respond very well to the tank/banshee marine push with phoenixes. Tanks are not that effective in TvP because they will get lifted by phoenixes and immortals will tank a lot of damage.
|
Oh man that second game of Hungun's was painful to watch. I can't believe he blocked his gateway's exit with cannons. This sucks because he's a much better player than he showed here, he played awful.
|
All the Tester games I've seen recently (these games and.. I think the TSL clan battle a while back?) were awesome to watch. I'm so sad he didn't qualify for GSL3 because the world is seriously missing out on some awesome protoss action. At least he is already S-Class!
|
anywhere where i can watch vods ?
|
It pains me to see Tester who played F**KING amazing in that match vs Nada to not qualify for GSL...
|
http://sc2rep.com/
2 of the matches are listed on there. I'm sure the others will be uploaded eventually!
|
Ugh, seeing how well Tester played here really makes me sad that he won't be in GSL3. Every time I see him play on these streams he is just incredibly solid.
|
Well he played against Nada who also didn't get into GSL3 ro64. So out of those two players who were not good enough for GSL3 ro64, he is better
I wonder if he runs into Foxer how is he going to look.
|
cliiide why are you so good as a practice partner?
|
On November 18 2010 19:32 -Archangel- wrote:Well he played against Nada who also didn't get into GSL3 ro64. So out of those two players who were not good enough for GSL3 ro64, he is better I wonder if he runs into Foxer how is he going to look.
He'll crush Foxer.
Never have I seen a player hold off attacks, whether it be cheesy rushes, all-ins, or just straight up pushes like Tester does. And he doesn't make it into the GSL. Two seasons in a row. Wow.
Either he has incredible nerves (honestly doubt so) or is just inconsistent. Every time I watch him he is just really good.
|
Nada didn't switch to Mechplay fast enough... against Protoss you habe to get Thors, Tanks, Hellion, Ghost in the very late game. M&M&M doesn't work that good if you are at 150supply.
Nada also failed to position his units properly in the fights. You have to stim and run your army into the Protoss army to focus down the colossi and avoid storms because your units can dogde faster if stimmed than the protoss army can.
M&M also may run and shoot simultaniously. Nada should have used this. Instead he just a-walked his units in range...
|
On November 18 2010 19:53 netherDrake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 19:32 -Archangel- wrote:Well he played against Nada who also didn't get into GSL3 ro64. So out of those two players who were not good enough for GSL3 ro64, he is better I wonder if he runs into Foxer how is he going to look. He'll crush Foxer. Never have I seen a player hold off attacks, whether it be cheesy rushes, all-ins, or just straight up pushes like Tester does. And he doesn't make it into the GSL. Two seasons in a row. Wow. Either he has incredible nerves (honestly doubt so) or is just inconsistent. Every time I watch him he is just really good.
My thoughts exactly.
If both players play to their best TesteR wins, hands down.
He's really the player Toss needs but is too inconsistent it seems. He needs to figure it out before next season. But every time I watch this guy, he WOW's me. His play (apart from quals, obv) is just sooo solid, it feels like he's on auto pilot gosu x9000+. Really hope TesteR sorts himself out though, god help toss if he doesn't. Fellow top Protoss's also believe that he's the #1 Toss player regardless of his qual mishaps.
|
Idk about saying testers all in/rush/ defense is top notch. Idk he got eliminated from gsl quals two times but I don't think its over his end game because he clearly showed his dominance today
|
Damn, wonder if there'll be VODs for this, missed it completely
|
On November 18 2010 21:27 NguN wrote:Damn, wonder if there'll be VODs for this, missed it completely
i also wish there would be VODs.. my stream just buffered to gg earlier. lol. Hop GOM ups it in their site.
|
Honestly I don't think tester has a chance against BoxerPrime.. He is just overrated..
|
he lost to ITR season one because ITR just did a lot of 1 base play with extremely early pressure. He's a top notch player, many players didn't get passed the preliminary rounds for GSL as you can clearly see from the lists there were many upsets. It's probably just coincidence that this happens 2 seasons in a row
|
NesTea is a beast that is for sure!
|
On November 18 2010 21:37 eksert wrote:
Honestly I don't think tester has a chance against BoxerPrime.. He is just overrated..
If there's anyone in Korea that's overrated, it's Foxer
|
On November 18 2010 22:34 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 21:37 eksert wrote:
Honestly I don't think tester has a chance against BoxerPrime.. He is just overrated.. If there's anyone in Korea that's overrated, it's Foxer
Overrated or not, crushing FD 2-0 and then HopeTorture 4-1 is nothing to sneeze at.
|
|
|
sc2reps.com vods are too slow and brokes in the middle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
they seem to be loading very slow :S
Edit : it seems that its only 1st long game that is broken , 2nd seems to work fine .
Anyone know where can i watch 1st game ?
|
On November 18 2010 22:56 ItsMeDomLee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 22:34 syllogism wrote:On November 18 2010 21:37 eksert wrote:
Honestly I don't think tester has a chance against BoxerPrime.. He is just overrated.. If there's anyone in Korea that's overrated, it's Foxer Overrated or not, crushing FD 2-0 and then HopeTorture 4-1 is nothing to sneeze at.
Thats because he came with very new and not seen strategy . give ppl some time to adjust and we will see
|
Tester is S class isn't he? That means we'll be seeing him in the next year in the GSL.
|
On November 18 2010 19:32 -Archangel- wrote:Well he played against Nada who also didn't get into GSL3 ro64. So out of those two players who were not good enough for GSL3 ro64, he is better I wonder if he runs into Foxer how is he going to look.
But in TSL clan battle, he was brilliant as well, all killing everyone he met, including FruitDealer. And it wasn't that Fruitdealer was bad, but Tester knows how to defend, and knows exact time to attack, and does brilliantly.
I just want to see the games where he was knocked out. When I see him play against top players, he is brilliant, so I just cannot understand how some unknown players knock him out.
|
On November 18 2010 22:34 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 21:37 eksert wrote:
Honestly I don't think tester has a chance against BoxerPrime.. He is just overrated.. If there's anyone in Korea that's overrated, it's Foxer
Huh? If anything, he's UNDERRATED because people like you think he doesn't deserve to be where is. He EARNED his place in the finals. It had nothing to do with what anyone thought of him.
If anyone were to be overrated it would be players like Nada and SlayerSBoxeR who are highly touted based on their BW game but have yet to play up to expectations in SC2.
|
On November 19 2010 00:00 razamanaz wrote: they seem to be loading very slow :S
Also there is some idiot screaming over the casters, for no apparent reason. You can't hear anything from the game itself.
|
On November 19 2010 00:28 sur_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 00:00 razamanaz wrote: they seem to be loading very slow :S Also there is some idiot screaming over the casters, for no apparent reason. You can't hear anything from the game itself.
I just want to see tha game , even if without hearing a thing
Watching 2nd game , which seems to work
|
AHahha watching foxer x zenio he really humiliated zenio, i guess the guy is pretty bm ...
|
On November 19 2010 00:28 sur_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 00:00 razamanaz wrote: they seem to be loading very slow :S Also there is some idiot screaming over the casters, for no apparent reason. You can't hear anything from the game itself.
someone, chinese?!, casts over the korean cast.
didnt like foxers play  ( even thou i play terran myself i always wish for the opponent to win cause his scv marine aggressive style is just stupid =(
|
Oh so now people call Nada overrated
What the hell is wrong with you people lolll
|
On November 19 2010 00:06 out4blood wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2010 22:34 syllogism wrote:On November 18 2010 21:37 eksert wrote:
Honestly I don't think tester has a chance against BoxerPrime.. He is just overrated.. If there's anyone in Korea that's overrated, it's Foxer If anyone were to be overrated it would be players like Nada and SlayerSBoxeR who are highly touted based on their BW game but have yet to play up to expectations in SC2.
Boxer got to the Ro4. I'd say he has lived up to expectations just fine. Nobody realistically expected him to steamroll everyone.
|
I also can't see how Nada or Boxer would be overrated if they made Ro8/Ro4 respectively. Althought TvT are clearly there best MUs, they did pretty well.
|
Aw the randomness of qualifiers, you can 2-0 Nada in this, but can't make the Ro64! Either way was great getting to watch Tester play. Now I just feel silly courtesy of the poll, Nada didn't make it either -.-
|
Watch game of Nada vs tester on LT. Amazing game.
|
On November 18 2010 16:00 yypisces wrote:FruitDealer vs HongUn, Optimus(FoxeR) vs Zenio VODs here:+ Show Spoiler +
Why is this guy talking over the announcers? It's really annoying.
|
On November 19 2010 01:10 Pekkz wrote:
Watch game of Nada vs tester on LT. Amazing game.
Know where i can get working vod/replay ?
|
On November 19 2010 00:28 sur_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 00:00 razamanaz wrote: they seem to be loading very slow :S Also there is some idiot screaming over the casters, for no apparent reason. You can't hear anything from the game itself.
i think it´s a chinese translating from korean...
|
On November 19 2010 01:10 Pekkz wrote:
Watch game of Nada vs tester on LT. Amazing game.
I was stunned that Tester held off the push by Nada 10:10 into the game. It looks like all he has is 4 sentries, 4-5 zealots, 2 immortals and a colossus(w/out range). I just thought he was going to get stomped. Very good use forcefield as an artificial barrier to let his colossus get free hits before using it to split the terran army in half. He had to pull probes in the end but I was really expecting a game-ending roflstomp right there.
|
|
|
This vod stoped loading for me at 7:24
|
On November 19 2010 01:51 skipdog172 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 01:10 Pekkz wrote:
Watch game of Nada vs tester on LT. Amazing game. I was stunned that Tester held off the push by Nada 10:10 into the game. It looks like all he has is 4 sentries, 4-5 zealots, 2 immortals and a colossus(w/out range). I just thought he was going to get stomped. Very good use forcefield as an artificial barrier to let his colossus get free hits before using it to split the terran army in half. He had to pull probes in the end but I was really expecting a game-ending roflstomp right there.
In that game, I said "it's over for Tester" like at least 3 times. First, during that initial push. Then, when he was expecting an attack and massing units on 2 bases, while Nada expanded long before to gold and massed much more food army (at one point, difference was significant). Nada was just happy with contain, and I thought it is over for Tester. 2 base vs 3 base (1 of them gold), and locked into your base. He broke the contain.
After that, there was a fight in which he lost everything but the phoenixes. I thought it's a gg for Tester, because terran marines and marauders were pouring, and Nada was taking 5th expansion vs Tester's three. But Tester managed to defend the gold expansion with phoenixes and stuff until he gets an army. Amazing.
|
Watching these series, I'm pretty sure that protoss pros aren't dead, I think it's just that god damn Scrap Station for the 3rd match on GSL3 prelim. 11 well known protoss players lost to zerg, and 10 out of 12 protoss advanced to Ro64 by playing pvp. :/ GSL made a very bad decision in their map pool.
|
Tester is still one of the only Protosses who can impressively win PvT's in my eyes ^^ The rest win aswell but it never feels quite as... well played. I have to say tho I was very impressed with Genius' play v NesTea (only saw game 2 and 3 tho), I didnt held him in too high regard but he might be better then I thought ^^
|
Haha, wow I watched the VoDs with the Mandarin commentary... wow that guy is awkward.
|
|
|
It's such a shame Tester didn't make it into GSL 3.
|
Malaysia252 Posts
On November 19 2010 02:35 Promises wrote:
Tester is still one of the only Protosses who can impressively win PvT's in my eyes ^^ The rest win aswell but it never feels quite as... well played. I have to say tho I was very impressed with Genius' play v NesTea (only saw game 2 and 3 tho), I didnt held him in too high regard but he might be better then I thought ^^
You should check out game 1 as well, Genius was relentless. As for Tester..........sigh, its a damn shame we won't be seeing him or Sangho this season.
|
8748 Posts
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable.
|
and what were his mistakes tyler? what would u improve? More Gateway units in the earlygame ? i have to agree there, he hold off the rush very close.
|
On November 19 2010 03:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable.
I agree. Except I wouldn't call it sloppy. Just, very fragile.
|
one question remains: what are the alternatives? with colossi stalker only its VERY hard to hold off a timed ghost/viking/rauder push (after terran fast expanded aswell). i think colossi + phoenix is at the moment the best style u can do. stalker arent really good enough for a 50gas unit against marauder only :{
|
People telling bad things about foxer, i dont think he is genius nor next flash, but flash was called fluke, then he was called cheeser, then he was called a "best of the moment", then he was considered one of the best, then finally genius ...
At least I know he isnt cheese or fluke, i still think he is just way above average ...
|
On November 19 2010 03:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable.
I've nothing against good player "bad mouthing" other good players,
still i personally would like it, if you could give a bit of your insight why you
think it that way.
You don't have to write 1k words about it, or analyse it to the tiniest detail, just
maybe 2-3 sentence why it's that way so we other people without your knowledge can actually follow your reasonning behind and maybe also discover his
flaws in play.
Same with Idra and his "Nestea is bad, MVP is bad".
More of a wish of mine than everything, tiny bit for the community.
(guess you won't do it because silver guys comming along and trying to theorycraft)
|
8748 Posts
On November 19 2010 03:06 Obbalord wrote:
and what were his mistakes tyler? what would u improve? More Gateway units in the earlygame ? i have to agree there, he hold off the rush very close.
Yeah his build was just plain bad. It's possible to expo faster safely and simply have more units. Tester's build is exactly the build that Day9 doesn't like either but Koreans keep doing it. NaDa's build should be owned by Tester's build so much faster on LT because NaDa's little timing attack is horrible against the tiny choke on LT's naturals, so all those units do nothing but delay a proper TvP composition. But Tester does a bad version of that build and so he doesn't easily repel NaDa's attack and NaDa's 4rax pump with delayed Starport actually works. On close position Metalopolis -- ok try it. On LT, no that shouldn't work.
Mass Phoenix looks so cool until they get EMP'd and take 600+ shield damage instantly and then can't kill the Vikings nor do any lifting. Or until Terran leaves a group of ~8 Marines in back of their army, so when it's Viking vs Phoenix, 8 stimmed Marines turn the tide and the Colossi can't run forward to do anything about it.
But NaDa broke him anyway and tried to stream in units to capitalize but it was the wrong choice because he never EMP'd the Phoenixes and they had dozens of lifts in them. He could have sat back and had another timing where he could build a composition that didn't give a shit about Colossi because Tester would only have ~3 Colossi rebuilt and not much Force Field either (if any) by the time NaDa hit his timing. But instead, he continued to build an anti-Colossi composition and then just let Tester rebuild Colossi. That's not how to play TvP.
Or NaDa could have gone the PainUser route and centered his composition around Thors. I'd bet that PainUser saw that game as totally winnable for NaDa.
Better yet, combine those ideas. After breaking Tester, go in when you have 3 Thors, 1 ghost and whatever other MM Viking your Barracks and Starports were able to make. gg phoenix composition
|
Mass Collosi + Mass Pheonix + a couple gateway units. Playing 'toss is great. :p
|
Is it a positive or a negative thing that Tester believes he can survive the early game with fewer units than is considered 'standard'. Rarely see FE with just 2 gates and quick tech to col. His defense was superb however. Thoroughly impressed with his unique style, MORE TESTER MORE!!! I've heard yourself and others Tyler discussing how difficult it is to find a good phoenix opening currently, and yet Tester defeated Nada 2-0 with phoenix'. Give the man some cred!
|
I just saw game one and Day9 loomed in my mind. So they go 2gate robo expand, which is great! but, SUDDENLY COLOSSUS! Dunno why nada didn't transition out of bio :/ Colossi and storm is a transition into losing your entire army instantly with all that damage frontloaded.
|
It even looked like Nada could've attacked well before the 10 minute mark and won the first fight easily. Tester had barely any gateway units. That is why I was so boggled initially, as Nada had such an army advantage before that 10 min mark, he probably could've 1a'd into Tester's base and won. It seems like that is what top toss players lose to vs. terran... simple early pushes while they are trying to get colossus. That is why I don't understand why he wasn't even constantly pumping units out of his warpgate early and just hoping that he didn't get attacked.
|
have to agree tyler, i think if nada put 1-2 thors in his army (huge damage on phoenix) or got an emp on phoenix tester is pretty much fucked..., i dont like the mass phonenix style too, but it seems to me that many top tier korean toss do this style (sangho in the clantourney too for example), but i cant believe this strategy is really good.. :[. the usual mass gate colossi style would have rolled nada after his failed first push..
@ lalgee
the 2gate robo fe to fast colossi build is nothing special, most toss do this, look genius vs loner blizzcon finals for example =)
Hope blizzard get some patch out for PVT very soon, im 2200+ diamond p by myself and i think this matchup is horrible, if Protoss survives the first 15 minutes, gets 2 expansions and templar+Colossi tech terran is totaly fucked, and before p is very weak => Boring Matchup, do you have other impressions of this matchup in its current state tyler?
|
I'm just going to post this again because it sounds like a lot of people posting in the thread don't know and it is sort of annoying.
The second game between FruitDealer and HongUnPrime didn't end properly. FruitDealer's computer crashed or something so they had to restart it. HongUn used the same strategy both times. The first time he seemed to have an advantage and might have won, but we'll never know. FruitDealer reacted differently the second time.
|
On November 19 2010 03:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable.
Who do you think is the best protoss right now?
|
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.
|
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.
I have to agree with this
|
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.
You need to learn to read and intepret posts properly before you respond.
There is no comparing, there is only the idea and theory behind why X isnt working, and why it worked now.
Imo the game on LT was a great example of how this is still a very new game and how it will keep evolve. Protoss need to evolve to go deeper in tournaments at the very highest level that's for sure.
I agree with Tyler, Testers play on LT felt really vulnurable. Protoss is very unforgiving imo, and if you have holes in your build that can be abused, those holes will be abused, especially in a series. Thus, as Tyler states, it's no surprise that Tester gets sniped in BO3s.
I'm sure Tester will come out as a even stronger player eventually, and I think he's still one of the absolut bests. I'm very glad he won .
|
8748 Posts
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.
lol so hypocrite. i think you are jealous of our ability to critique their games. until you can show us that you are better at critiquing their games than we are, im just gonna call sour grapes on u!
|
game 1 tester/nada was a pretty amazing hold in that first engagement by tester. Really not sure how nada didn't win just right there. I hope there is a ITR vs tester match at some point because ITR always knocks out the last protosses in these gsl's.
|
On November 19 2010 04:42 Kyuki wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester. You need to learn to read and intepret posts properly before you respond. There is no comparing, there is only the idea and theory behind why X isnt working, and why it worked now. Imo the game on LT was a great example of how this is still a very new game and how it will keep evolve. Protoss need to evolve to go deeper in tournaments at the very highest level that's for sure. I agree with Tyler, Testers play on LT felt really vulnurable. Protoss is very unforgiving imo, and if you have holes in your build that can be abused, those holes will be abused, especially in a series. Thus, as Tyler states, it's no surprise that Tester gets sniped in BO3s. I'm sure Tester will come out as a even stronger player eventually, and I think he's still one of the absolut bests. I'm very glad he won .
Well, if I understood Nony wrongly, he can correct it. But what he said is simple, that he is not impressed with Tester (isn't this a way to say that he is average/not impressive?), that Tester was sloppy, and he can be unsurprisingly sniped.
To a degree, it is correct, but I would attribute it to the current balance of the game. No Protoss is at a level where he cannot be sniped. Or am I missing somebody? Where are the armies of better Protoss players? Genius? Inca? oGsMC? Huk? Kiwikaki? Tyler? They can all be sniped. Their game can look sloppy, but that's not because these players, and Tester, are bad, it's just the race is weak. You can get a ghost, and that strategy is worse, that's correct. But that fact is more of the balance issue, than player issue.
We either accept that the current crop of protoss players are sloppy and unimpressive, just mediocre, or we give credit where it's due and say that to a degree Tester was lucky. Because Terran is overpowered. I can accept that.
|
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.
I loved that game it was entertaining and I am a Tester fan but If you honestly calm down and just watch the game its pretty obvious Tester was skating on thin ice the entire game which is what Tyler was getting at. Its cool to see him pull it off, but a small tactical change on Nada's part or a mistake from Tester and he is dead playing that style.
|
On November 19 2010 04:42 Kyuki wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester. You need to learn to read and intepret posts properly before you respond. There is no comparing, there is only the idea and theory behind why X isnt working, and why it worked now. Imo the game on LT was a great example of how this is still a very new game and how it will keep evolve. Protoss need to evolve to go deeper in tournaments at the very highest level that's for sure. I agree with Tyler, Testers play on LT felt really vulnurable. Protoss is very unforgiving imo, and if you have holes in your build that can be abused, those holes will be abused, especially in a series. Thus, as Tyler states, it's no surprise that Tester gets sniped in BO3s. I'm sure Tester will come out as a even stronger player eventually, and I think he's still one of the absolut bests. I'm very glad he won .
Uhm, on the contrary Tester didn't want any holes in his build, which is why he used the build he did in LT.
He had no idea what Nada's early build order was because he failed to see the FE. As a result, he can't expand because of a possible early push by Nada given the short distance between the two bases on LT. Once he does scout the expansion with an Observer, he has one of two choices: follow up with an expo of his own or all-in Nada. He decides to play it safe and expo as well, but by this point he's behind economically by a fair margin.
Tester simply guessed wrong about Nada's early game plan therefore fell behind in build orders. It's not necessarily a bad build order, just the wrong one to use although he had no way of knowing that.
I think Tester played very well to his strengths in that game. Didn't try to compete through mechanics and sheer army sizes early on with gateway vs rax units, but used more micro-oriented units (Phoenix/Sentries/Collossi) to win the battles and take the game.
|
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.
My thoughts exactly.
|
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.
I think this is more of a case where it is much easier to analyze replays of games and point out errors and mistakes than when actually in-game. It is foolish to simply assume that these players are always doing the exactly correct things, in every game. Did you watch all of the GSL games? You can clearly see when people play bad and make poor decisions. We can't always look at the end result and say "Tester played amazing because he beat Nada". Why don't you point out exactly what Tyler said that was not true. Point out why Tyler is wrong in his analysis of the game instead of screaming 'Sour Grapes!!!'. I don't see the issue with solid players pointing out what they don't like about another top players' play. Sure, I don't like it when they offer no explanations like Idra did regarding Nestea. When they are pointing out specifics of how they could've changed their strategy and been more successful, I think that is worth listening to. The top players have been changing strategies and evolving constantly since the game's release. Making assumptions that players like Tester and Nada are executing the 'best' strategies all the time seems like an unwise idea. We've watched some of the best of the best, lose to simply "this strategy loses to this strategy" games. We need to question their strategies and their play, all the time imo.
I don't think Tyler was trying to take a swipe at Tester being a "bad player". I do think it is fair to point out the downfalls of his strategies and maybe now some people can understand why he has failed to make the GSL twice in a row. You don't need to be top 8 GSL to criticize the the decisions and builds of other top players. There is no reason I can think of to censor ourselves as to not *gasp* point out the errors in top play. If you've watched the GSL, you'll see how often all these top players can easily make strategic blunders that cost them games. You'll also see lots of games where people win with perfect decision making. There is nothing wrong with discussing these players' builds and they ways they handled themselves in particular games. We don't need to be Impressed just because Tester beat Nada. We've watched tons of high level games from the best in the world and you don't need to have top 8 GSL credentials to point out errors and ways that they might be able to improve. We just don't have BW-pro level players yet in SC2.
|
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
I love how these foreigners mouth of Koreans. It would be OK if they achieved anything remotely close, but no, it's just the talking. "They should have used Day9 strategy, PainUser strategy" etc. No offense, but that doesn't sound anything good. Whoever used Day9 strategy against Nada and won? Who did use PainUser strategy and won?
Even the names of these strategies sound funny, when you think it's Nada playing. I wish all these people who aren't impressed by these bad players could show why and how much they are better in actual games. Otherwise we keep hearing Idra and others, yet they didn't finish in top 8 of GSL as yet.
Folks, to me, it sounds like sour grapes. I would like to see these brilliant protosses employing these brilliant strategies, cuz I am fairly disappointed with the Protosses. Didn't see anybody remotely close to Tester at his best, so if he is bad, then others are simply terrible.
PS And yes, Nony, I watched your games against Idra as well. Nothing to write home about. The same strategy that tons and tons of protosses use, a lot of cheddar cheese in there. I hope your above post doesn't imply, like Idra's comments, that you are better than Tester.
I dont see why you have instantly attacked him for commenting on something that to be honest is quite right, testers build was quite fragile, if nada attacked earlier he probably could of outright killed him there and then he started building tanks vs a mass pheonix army..., you dont have to be better than the player to be able to comment on their strategy and doing so definitely doesnt imply your better/stronger.
|
Tyler didn't even say Tester was bad, he said his strategy was flawed and pointed out why and how Nada could have taken advantage of it. It's very possible for amazing players to use flawed strategies, and its also possible for them to win with them because even though his strategy was flawed he executed it very well which made the game so fun to watch.
|
I have yet too see a totally safe Protoss strategy on basically any map. It's true that fast colossi seems/is very risky, and getting more gateway units/immortals seems to be a better idea, but still, in every PvT there is a time when you have to tech up. And you are extremely vulnerable when you do. Every decent build seems to have "windows of vulnerability" or at least this is how I see it. It's hard to expect Ps to be solid when they have to pray that their opponents don't exploit those timings. Or do you have any brilliant, solid builds for PvT?
|
Oh right, he can correct me, I told you. But what you read from Nony is simply only negative things about Tester's build. No balanced discussion. So I got the impression, along the Idra lines, that Tester only won because the opponent (Nada) was a noob. Nada could have used PainUser built, unfortunately he wasn't aware of PainUser.
Of course, the analysis of second game is lacking.
These to me seemed very similar to Idra twitter lines after FruitDealer's win against HopeTorture, saying HopeTorture was a noob and horrible, and that's the only reason FruitDealer won. In other words, jealousy.
Fair play, HopeTorture didn't play too well, and Nada made his mistakes during the games, but these one liners and twitter lines, and just general comments smell a lot of jealousy. The only thing I could say is "well, it's unlucky that you cannot be lucky". I am sure Idra won't mind if he fluked his way to GSL3 title, like he considers NesTea did, and like he considered Fruitdealer did.
I will shut it, if Idra wins GSL3 and trashtalks. Before he does it, he is a fan like myself. Sitting at home and pouring shit on some players, and praising others. The same goes to Tyler.
|
What other build could Tester have done on LT anyway, given the circumstances?
FE? He had no idea what Nada's build order was because his probe got denied.
All-in after seeing Nada's expo? By that time Nada had more production facilities and his expo had been up for awhile. The timing to punish Nada's FE was over by the time the observer scouted it.
By the time Tester got his own expo up, he was extremely behind economically. And he's not going to win through mechanics anyway, so his hope lies in micro and micro-oriented units (Oh hi, Collossi and Phoenixes) and winning a 200/200 army clash to either 1) counter nada or 2) get enough breathing room to take his own expos.
But hey, if I'm wrong please feel free to enlighten me as to what Tester should have done that game, instead of talking about how Nada messed up. I mean your initial point was about how sloppy Tester's play was, but then you spend most of your post talking about Nada messed up.
|
Edit: accidental double post
|
guy a: tester why so good!!!
tyler: lol tester didnt execute well, i am disappoint
guy a: tester why so bad!!!
Please don't blow his comment out of proportion. He's just saying Tester could have executed better, which is true. Nada could have exected better, which is true.
|
I enjoyed reading Xxavi's posts.
It was also very entertaining watching Tester's phoenix play! Felt sort of refreshing. All in all I like watching Tester and NEXGenius play the Protoss race.
|
On November 19 2010 05:19 Klamity wrote:
guy a: tester why so good!!!
tyler: lol tester didnt execute well, i am disappoint
guy a: tester why so bad!!!
So true.
|
|
|
On November 19 2010 05:19 Klamity wrote:
guy a: tester why so good!!!
tyler: lol tester didnt execute well, i am disappoint
guy a: tester why so bad!!!
Please don't blow his comment out of proportion. He's just saying Tester could have executed better, which is true. Nada could have exected better, which is true.
How is anyone blowing things out of proportion? The thing that irks people is that Idra/Nony are criticizing a player without explaining WHY they think that. Yes, I'm aware that Nony did explain himself in subsequent posts after someone asked him to explain himself.
If you know something that no one else does, that's great. But if you're going to say "so-and-so is bad" without telling why then why even bother posting? Keep your smug comments to yourself. There are times when explanations aren't needed, but when the majority of the previous posts are about how well Tester played, you better explain explain yourself if you're going to disagree with the common opinion.
|
On November 19 2010 05:17 MayorITC wrote:
What other build could Tester have done on LT anyway, given the circumstances?
FE? He had no idea what Nada's build order was because his probe got denied.
All-in after seeing Nada's expo? By that time Nada had more production facilities and his expo had been up for awhile. The timing to punish Nada's FE was over by the time the observer scouted it.
By the time Tester got his own expo up, he was extremely behind economically. And he's not going to win through mechanics anyway, so his hope lies in micro and micro-oriented units (Oh hi, Collossi and Phoenixes) and winning a 200/200 army clash to either 1) counter nada or 2) get enough breathing room to take his own expos.
But hey, if I'm wrong please feel free to enlighten me as to what Tester should have done that game, instead of talking about how Nada messed up. I mean your initial point was about how sloppy Tester's play was, but then you spend most of your post talking about Nada messed up.
I agree completely. Thanks for pointing that out. Initial one-liner was that Tester was bad/unimpressive/sloppy call whatever you want. Then it turns out the mistakes were from Nada, who didn't use PainUser strategy.
The only thing Tester did is a risky strategy which can be effectively countered, and I guess that's annoying to some that Tester got away with it.
|
Its so easy to sit watch the game from spectator point and tell how players did soo many mistakes .
Games are lost and won only because someone made mistake .
|
It's so great to see such an innovative play after literally weeks of the same Toss mass stalker player over and over again. I really like seeing how mass Colossus + Phoenix + Templars (when was the last time you saw a templar?) works, as well as mass Immortal + Phoenix. Would be awesome if he threw in a Carrier!
I think ssKs won because he did exactly what PainUser said in SoTG, trying new combinations. Sure some of what Tyler said is true, Thors would totally counter that, but I'm pretty sure at heat of the moment, NaDa couldn't grasp that.
Great game by both players~
|
I now did watch the Tester vs Nada game on LT and i didn't like it at all. I thought Tester might come up with new stuff, but they both basically played like in GSL 1. And Tester didn't even play it safe, he rushed for Colossus like crazy so he had only 2 Sentries 1 Zealot and maybe 1 Immortal. I thought he would be dead every moment, but Nada just didn't attack at all, until the Colossus was out. And even then it was pretty close for Tester.
Later Nada only dropped once (before the Phoenixes not at all) so he had obvious a disadvantage with MMM against Phoenix+Colossus. And he still won almost.
From a shoutcasters point surely amazing to watch, but from an analytic standpoint and desperate protoss pretty terrible.
And btw: Imo it wasnt innovative. It was basically the Colossus + Phoenix into HT Build we saw the last month (at least did i).
|
colossi + phoenix isnt as new as u may think :> many korean protoss players perform this style for weeks now
|
|
|
i guess there wont be any innovative play until next patch (which hopefully adresses PvT) comes out, maybe im wrong and incavsMaka + sanghovsboxer show something different but i doubt it.
|
8748 Posts
On November 19 2010 05:26 Xxavi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 05:17 MayorITC wrote:
What other build could Tester have done on LT anyway, given the circumstances?
FE? He had no idea what Nada's build order was because his probe got denied.
All-in after seeing Nada's expo? By that time Nada had more production facilities and his expo had been up for awhile. The timing to punish Nada's FE was over by the time the observer scouted it.
By the time Tester got his own expo up, he was extremely behind economically. And he's not going to win through mechanics anyway, so his hope lies in micro and micro-oriented units (Oh hi, Collossi and Phoenixes) and winning a 200/200 army clash to either 1) counter nada or 2) get enough breathing room to take his own expos.
But hey, if I'm wrong please feel free to enlighten me as to what Tester should have done that game, instead of talking about how Nada messed up. I mean your initial point was about how sloppy Tester's play was, but then you spend most of your post talking about Nada messed up. I agree completely. Thanks for pointing that out. Initial one-liner was that Tester was bad/unimpressive/sloppy call whatever you want. Then it turns out the mistakes were from Nada, who didn't use PainUser strategy. The only thing Tester did is a risky strategy which can be effectively countered, and I guess that's annoying to some that Tester got away with it.
Your summary of my criticism is way off. It's like I'm teaching a grad class but I summarize a 2 hour lecture in 5 minutes, and you're a freshman in undergrad anyway, so there's like no chance we're gonna have clear communication.
Tester can do essentially the same build (gateways, robotics for observer to scout, expand, colossus) but he can optimize the order to have an equal or better economy and definitely a stronger army. This optimization doesn't sacrifice any safety. It sacrifices nothing. It's just better.
What is your point about me talking about NaDa when criticizing Tester? Tester won the game so there are two ways to criticize his play: (1) how he could have won more easily while doing essentially the same thing and (2) what things could have theoretically beaten him that he needs to address. I did both, first by saying that he could have improved his build to dominate NaDa in the midgame and second by saying the different things NaDa could have done in the lategame to beat Tester. I don't have to say what Tester needs to do to defeat the things that NaDa could have theoretically done in order to defend my criticism of Tester.
And Xxavi, when you say
The only thing Tester did is a risky strategy which can be effectively countered, and I guess that's annoying to some that Tester got away with it.
that is essentially what I said in my very first post
On November 19 2010 03:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable.
except no, I'm not annoyed about it. Everyone knows Tester unexpectedly failed to qualify for both GSL2 and GSL3. We don't get to watch those games. But we do get to check out Tester's play in these games and I'm looking to see if it's impressively rock solid or if it has some faults that anybody with good mechanics could possibly take advantage of in a bo3. My original comment is saying "yeah I can see how he's not qualifying"
|
Tester was the only protoss that impressed me so far which is quite an upset to me that he failed to qualify for gsl2/3
nada v tester games are good watch but tbh we can tell from the games that nada is still learning sc2. he has the great macro mechanics etc but he seems abit weak on the unit composition and micro etc. hope to see nada fully get used to sc2 asap!!
|
Do you guys really think Tester doesn't realize that FEing and teching like that is vulnerable? I think it just comes down to knowing your opponent. Obviously he wouldn't try that against someone like Foxer, but I guess it's ok against Nada.
|
On November 19 2010 05:26 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 05:19 Klamity wrote:
guy a: tester why so good!!!
tyler: lol tester didnt execute well, i am disappoint
guy a: tester why so bad!!!
Please don't blow his comment out of proportion. He's just saying Tester could have executed better, which is true. Nada could have exected better, which is true.
How is anyone blowing things out of proportion? The thing that irks people is that Idra/Nony are criticizing a player without explaining WHY they think that. Yes, I'm aware that Nony did explain himself in subsequent posts after someone asked him to explain himself. If you know something that no one else does, that's great. But if you're going to say "so-and-so is bad" without telling why then why even bother posting? Keep your smug comments to yourself. There are times when explanations aren't needed, but when the majority of the previous posts are about how well Tester played, you better explain explain yourself if you're going to disagree with the common opinion.
This would be fine if he didn't explain himself 4 or 5 posts down, only to continually have people poke at it. You could try reading before commenting with something idiotic.
His initial comment more or less says "Tester's build wasn't refined, I am not impressed." Not once did he say Tester was bad, and further, he's commenting on ONE game.
|
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is?
|
upset. iwanted to see nada vs nestea and they failed
|
The comments against tyler are ridiculous, I mean, he's just criticizing aspects of Tester's play which could have been better, and how NaDa could have exploited them, he never said "OMG Tester is such a noob i could do it so much better". In that context, I think his analysis is correct, maybe even Tester knows these things and is trying to correct them, who knows.
Tester is an awesome player, but with his good share of mistakes and weak points, just as any other player. He seems to play at the edge of the pit the entire time, which means his play really isn't too solid, and explains why in a best of 3 he can be unexpectedly be taken out. Stop the fanboyism.
Actually, this reminds me of how day9 pointed out nony's mistakes in a recent game. No one would say day9 is just BMing nony, he just analyzed it thoroughly and came to some conclusions, the same thing nony did here.
|
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote:
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is?
Hey man some people appreciate having pros come on the forums and give their thoughts on strategies so how bout you don't be a dick for all our sakes?
|
On November 19 2010 06:46 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote:
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is? Hey man some people appreciate having pros come on the forums and give their thoughts on strategies so how bout you don't be a dick for all our sakes?
So, it's fine for pros to act like dicks when pointing out facts, just no one else. I get it. The pros should act less professional because they are pros.
|
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote:
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is?
This is a genetic fallacy, an appeal to accomplishment. Just because Tyler isn't competing in GSL3 or hasn't competed in any of the GSLs doesn't make his analysis or criticisms any less valid.
|
Dude who are you starting all of this drama over? Tyler? Maybe you should go back and read his posts. There was nothing even slightly resembling him acting like an ass. He said he wasn't impressed with a players play, because it had flaws in it.
How can you even criticize that? He didn't even say Tester was a bad player or anything, he's stating that he felt disappointed.... ><
God forbid pro's have feelings too.
|
On November 19 2010 06:50 fxSolo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote:
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is? This is a genetic fallacy, an appeal to accomplishment. Just because Tyler isn't competing in GSL3 or hasn't competed in any of the GSLs doesn't make his analysis or criticisms any less valid.
Saying things like "I'm not impressed by Tester because he didn't use Day9 approved builds" is pretty silly. I don't see Tester hopping on here to talk about how he's not impressed by Tyler.
|
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote:
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is?
And demonstrated phenomenal play at MLG Dallas, taking out many great players including GSL 3 qualifier Ret. He might not be in Korea, but I feel he can comment. Moreover, his commentary is pretty interesting.
|
On November 19 2010 06:53 Uncultured wrote:
Dude who are you starting all of this drama over? Tyler? Maybe you should go back and read his posts. There was nothing even slightly resembling him acting like an ass. He said he wasn't impressed with a players play, because it had flaws in it.
How can you even criticize that? He didn't even say Tester was a bad player or anything, he's stating that he felt disappointed.... ><
God forbid pro's have feelings too.
I find it funny that people are mad about me saying I'm not impressed by Tyler, but it's perfectly ok for Tyler to start out by saying he's not impressed by Tester. At least I stated why I'm not impressed by Tyler, he hasn't accomplished anything near what Tester has. Simple fact. But my simple fact is the dick one.
|
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote:
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is?
OMG *Fury!*
Can these bloody posters just *POOF*!
How the fuck can there be a problem critiquing a players game even though he won? I'm quite confident that Tester will look at the replay and see the same holes in his play and try to shut those holes. What kind of discussion is this anyway, and why is people jumping Tyler because he expresses weaknesses in a good players play? They are all true and all you kids who somehow think that critiquing = saying that you're better than that player are just fucking dumb. Learn to read and learn to intepret before bloody posting.
On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote:
Well, if I understood Nony wrongly, he can correct it. But what he said is simple, that he is not impressed with Tester (isn't this a way to say that he is average/not impressive?), that Tester was sloppy, and he can be unsurprisingly sniped.
To a degree, it is correct, but I would attribute it to the current balance of the game. No Protoss is at a level where he cannot be sniped. Or am I missing somebody? Where are the armies of better Protoss players? Genius? Inca? oGsMC? Huk? Kiwikaki? Tyler? They can all be sniped. Their game can look sloppy, but that's not because these players, and Tester, are bad, it's just the race is weak. You can get a ghost, and that strategy is worse, that's correct. But that fact is more of the balance issue, than player issue.
We either accept that the current crop of protoss players are sloppy and unimpressive, just mediocre, or we give credit where it's due and say that to a degree Tester was lucky. Because Terran is overpowered. I can accept that.
Gonna go back to my previous comment and say that the game is still very fresh and evolving, and that's why it's still very interesting to see the very best players play _not optimal_ and it's great to point out those flaws to step it up even further. Sky has no limit etc...
Ofc anyone can be sniped, and that only means we're far from "knowing" how this game should be played yet, but having a more solid play will net results over a longer period of time. That's just fact.
And this does not have to do with balance. It's metagame and it will change.
On November 19 2010 05:17 MayorITC wrote:
What other build could Tester have done on LT anyway, given the circumstances?
FE? He had no idea what Nada's build order was because his probe got denied.
All-in after seeing Nada's expo? By that time Nada had more production facilities and his expo had been up for awhile. The timing to punish Nada's FE was over by the time the observer scouted it.
By the time Tester got his own expo up, he was extremely behind economically. And he's not going to win through mechanics anyway, so his hope lies in micro and micro-oriented units (Oh hi, Collossi and Phoenixes) and winning a 200/200 army clash to either 1) counter nada or 2) get enough breathing room to take his own expos.
But hey, if I'm wrong please feel free to enlighten me as to what Tester should have done that game, instead of talking about how Nada messed up. I mean your initial point was about how sloppy Tester's play was, but then you spend most of your post talking about Nada messed up.
Again, please, try to reintepret what was said before jumping the gun. There was nothing wrong with the build, but there was several holes in how it was executed. I.e HOW THINGS WERE ORDERED AND DONE. These are two completely different things, and they were pointed out by Nony. Once those holes are shut in his play he will look incredibly _SOLID_.
|
Unaliased, I suggest you don't use quotation marks when you aren't directly quoting someone. To help make it look less like you're trying to take things out of context to fit your point...
You're putting words into Tylers post now. He said he disliked testers play, not that he disliked it because it wasn't a "Day9 approved build" He was just further letting people know why he found the play to be weak, and disappointing...
Please, leave your bleeding heart dramatic bullshit for Battle.net forums. This pot doesn't need be stirred. You're just spreading drama for no reason at all. And you Completely disregard anything anyone says to you.
Definition of troll, anyone?
|
On November 19 2010 07:00 Uncultured wrote:
Unaliased, I suggest you don't use quotation marks when you aren't directly quoting someone. To help make it look less like you're trying to take things out of context to fit your point...
You're putting words into Tylers post now. He said he disliked testers play, not that he disliked it because it wasn't a "Day9 approved build" He was just further letting people know why he found the play to be weak, and disappointing...
Please, leave your bleeding heart dramatic bullshit for Battle.net forums. This pot doesn't need be stirred. You're just spreading drama for no reason at all. And you Completely disregard anything anyone says to you.
Definition of troll, anyone?
And all I'm saying is I dislike the way he went about his criticism because he did it in a dick way. I basically just did exactly what he did in his first post and you're saying it's uncalled for. Yes. Just like his first post was.
|
tester could expand early but his scouting probe denied.and it was too late to put a nexus down.i think he wanted to expand after his first collo.i dont agree with day9 for fast collo review.cause even nexgenius goes for it and he is currently the best pvt (lost to hopetorture only).i refrerance these korean guys play rather than usa or europen guys.
|
On November 19 2010 06:12 Klamity wrote:
This would be fine if he didn't explain himself 4 or 5 posts down, only to continually have people poke at it. You could try reading before commenting with something idiotic.
His initial comment more or less says "Tester's build wasn't refined, I am not impressed." Not once did he say Tester was bad, and further, he's commenting on ONE game.
Please follow your own advice, thanks. I already acknowledged that Nony explained his first post. In response, people picked apart his explanation, not at his lack of explanation. For example, "you claimed Tester played poorly, but your explanation only picks apart Nada's play."
You should try reading before commenting with something idiotic.
|
On November 19 2010 07:07 unaliased wrote:
And all I'm saying is I dislike the way he went about his criticism because he did it in a dick way. I basically just did exactly what he did in his first post and you're saying it's uncalled for. Yes. Just like his first post was.
Really? So you're not saying this?
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote:
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is?
Have you ever heard of a "straw-man" argument?
edit: Also ousting yourself as a hypocrite, lawl.
|
"A judge is rarely as skilled as the contendors whom the judge is jugding"
- Myself, 18`th of November right before i fall dead asleep
|
And all I'm saying is I dislike the way he went about his criticism because he did it in a dick way. I basically just did exactly what he did in his first post and you're saying it's uncalled for. Yes. Just like his first post was.
The difference is people care what tyler has to say, and discussing the games is relevant to the interests of the thread. No one cares what you have to say, and you hating on tyler has nothing to do with the thread.
|
On November 19 2010 07:29 norterrible wrote:Show nested quote +
And all I'm saying is I dislike the way he went about his criticism because he did it in a dick way. I basically just did exactly what he did in his first post and you're saying it's uncalled for. Yes. Just like his first post was.
The difference is people care what tyler has to say, and discussing the games is relevant to the interests of the thread. No one cares what you have to say, and you hating on tyler has nothing to do with the thread.
Beat me to it.
Pretty ballsy to come onto a team's forum, abrasively criticize one of it's players, in a thread focusing on an unrelated subject.
|
@Liquid'Tyler thanks for taking to the time to express your point of view about NaDa vs. Tester.
I think that people don't realize how invaluable your input is. It's an honor to read comments from the progamers themselves, but people don't respect that, and that's sad.
Anyways I found tester very solid but after reading your posts I'm convinced that he's not as solid as he seemed
|
I think some guys here are too eager to start criticizing the koreans play here. I know for sure that I could never play as good as these guys, so I just sit and completely admire what im witnessing. Well maybe, once you get up there, you can start pointing things out : P
|
I'll be streaming today's matches again today for those folks in the West unable to view the feed. Again, if anyone at GomTV opposes this please let me know and I will take the stream down.
http://www.livestream.com/kevinace
|
on LT when i saw the 2 facts with tech lab and the armory going down near nada's gold after the big fight, i was sure he was going to build thors and just destroy tester but he didn't and only got tanks way later
|
On November 19 2010 03:21 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 03:06 Obbalord wrote:
and what were his mistakes tyler? what would u improve? More Gateway units in the earlygame ? i have to agree there, he hold off the rush very close.
Yeah his build was just plain bad. It's possible to expo faster safely and simply have more units. Tester's build is exactly the build that Day9 doesn't like either but Koreans keep doing it. NaDa's build should be owned by Tester's build so much faster on LT because NaDa's little timing attack is horrible against the tiny choke on LT's naturals, so all those units do nothing but delay a proper TvP composition. But Tester does a bad version of that build and so he doesn't easily repel NaDa's attack and NaDa's 4rax pump with delayed Starport actually works. On close position Metalopolis -- ok try it. On LT, no that shouldn't work. Mass Phoenix looks so cool until they get EMP'd and take 600+ shield damage instantly and then can't kill the Vikings nor do any lifting. Or until Terran leaves a group of ~8 Marines in back of their army, so when it's Viking vs Phoenix, 8 stimmed Marines turn the tide and the Colossi can't run forward to do anything about it. But NaDa broke him anyway and tried to stream in units to capitalize but it was the wrong choice because he never EMP'd the Phoenixes and they had dozens of lifts in them. He could have sat back and had another timing where he could build a composition that didn't give a shit about Colossi because Tester would only have ~3 Colossi rebuilt and not much Force Field either (if any) by the time NaDa hit his timing. But instead, he continued to build an anti-Colossi composition and then just let Tester rebuild Colossi. That's not how to play TvP. Or NaDa could have gone the PainUser route and centered his composition around Thors. I'd bet that PainUser saw that game as totally winnable for NaDa. Better yet, combine those ideas. After breaking Tester, go in when you have 3 Thors, 1 ghost and whatever other MM Viking your Barracks and Starports were able to make. gg phoenix composition
So are you planning on watching SangHo's games then? With his background he should be at or near the top mechanically speaking at least, yet he did not qualify either, and went out rather unceremoniously to early pressure from Foxer in last GSL. I'm curious because no one has been talking about him, but to me he should be comparable to guys like Tester and Genius. It would be interesting to see his play critiqued on the same level, he seemed to play very cautiously in GSL2.
|
On November 19 2010 05:53 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Tester can do essentially the same build (gateways, robotics for observer to scout, expand, colossus) but he can optimize the order to have an equal or better economy and definitely a stronger army. This optimization doesn't sacrifice any safety. It sacrifices nothing. It's just better.
I'm kind of surprised a progamer would say something like this.
Every reasonable build, as long as you keep your money low, accomplishes SOMETHING. it may not be very useful, or a good idea given what you've scouted, but it does SOMETHING better than other builds. By that I mean, it satisfies the conditions of "has X units at time t1," in addition to "has Y units at time t2." Sure, at time t3, it may not have as many as a different build, but that alternate build might not have hit X units at t1 for example, so it might have died to some earlier timing push.
When your scout gets denied early, the number of these "waypoints" your build has to hit increases, because you can't rule out certain builds.
Tester scouted very early marine marauder pressure with his probe, and lost 3 probes to the reaper. He didn't see the expo, wasn't sure what was coming, but probably suspected the FE. He needed 2 gates to hold off what could have been a 2rax FE, but also didnt want to fall too far behind, so he expod also. He decided on two obs--that decision is the only thing I have gripes with, since I don't think cloaked banshees were likely with 3 marauders and a reaper showing, but that's whatever. Once his obs saw the heavy MM + FE, he got out 2 imms and went straight for colossi.
At the first fight, he had 4 zealots, 4 sentries, 2 imm, and 1 colossus. He took out what looks to be about 16 marines and 10 marauders.
Before he scouted the FE and the MM mix, he had to add in all kinds of "waypoints," including 2rax FE, 3rax, delayed cloaked banshees, etc. I'm not sure if his 1 zealot + 2 sentries + robo + warp-ins could have held off these things, but I'm assuming that was his intention.
(And from Nada's side, he saw the exact timing on the expo, knew exactly where tester was up to that point, and saw the immortals and obs later. but he didnt see the robo bay, and didn't know if tester threw down two more gateways or what. he decided to play it safe and knock down his gold rocks before pushing. I have no problem with the timing on that push.)
|
On November 19 2010 06:54 unaliased wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 06:50 fxSolo wrote:On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote:
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is? This is a genetic fallacy, an appeal to accomplishment. Just because Tyler isn't competing in GSL3 or hasn't competed in any of the GSLs doesn't make his analysis or criticisms any less valid. Saying things like "I'm not impressed by Tester because he didn't use Day9 approved builds" is pretty silly. I don't see Tester hopping on here to talk about how he's not impressed by Tyler.
That's just likely a function of Tyler not even being on his radar.
|
On November 19 2010 05:53 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 05:26 Xxavi wrote:On November 19 2010 05:17 MayorITC wrote:
What other build could Tester have done on LT anyway, given the circumstances?
FE? He had no idea what Nada's build order was because his probe got denied.
All-in after seeing Nada's expo? By that time Nada had more production facilities and his expo had been up for awhile. The timing to punish Nada's FE was over by the time the observer scouted it.
By the time Tester got his own expo up, he was extremely behind economically. And he's not going to win through mechanics anyway, so his hope lies in micro and micro-oriented units (Oh hi, Collossi and Phoenixes) and winning a 200/200 army clash to either 1) counter nada or 2) get enough breathing room to take his own expos.
But hey, if I'm wrong please feel free to enlighten me as to what Tester should have done that game, instead of talking about how Nada messed up. I mean your initial point was about how sloppy Tester's play was, but then you spend most of your post talking about Nada messed up. I agree completely. Thanks for pointing that out. Initial one-liner was that Tester was bad/unimpressive/sloppy call whatever you want. Then it turns out the mistakes were from Nada, who didn't use PainUser strategy. The only thing Tester did is a risky strategy which can be effectively countered, and I guess that's annoying to some that Tester got away with it. Your summary of my criticism is way off. It's like I'm teaching a grad class but I summarize a 2 hour lecture in 5 minutes, and you're a freshman in undergrad anyway, so there's like no chance we're gonna have clear communication. Tester can do essentially the same build (gateways, robotics for observer to scout, expand, colossus) but he can optimize the order to have an equal or better economy and definitely a stronger army. This optimization doesn't sacrifice any safety. It sacrifices nothing. It's just better. What is your point about me talking about NaDa when criticizing Tester? Tester won the game so there are two ways to criticize his play: (1) how he could have won more easily while doing essentially the same thing and (2) what things could have theoretically beaten him that he needs to address. I did both, first by saying that he could have improved his build to dominate NaDa in the midgame and second by saying the different things NaDa could have done in the lategame to beat Tester. I don't have to say what Tester needs to do to defeat the things that NaDa could have theoretically done in order to defend my criticism of Tester. And Xxavi, when you say Show nested quote +The only thing Tester did is a risky strategy which can be effectively countered, and I guess that's annoying to some that Tester got away with it. that is essentially what I said in my very first post Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 03:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable. except no, I'm not annoyed about it. Everyone knows Tester unexpectedly failed to qualify for both GSL2 and GSL3. We don't get to watch those games. But we do get to check out Tester's play in these games and I'm looking to see if it's impressively rock solid or if it has some faults that anybody with good mechanics could possibly take advantage of in a bo3. My original comment is saying "yeah I can see how he's not qualifying"
OK, fair enough. I apologize that I didn't get your post.
Tester indeed seems a step away from loss in both games. I agree with that. In fact, I didn't think any Protoss will do good in this all-star tournament unless they are lucky. HongunPrime lost one-sidedly, Genius won but I didn't like how NesTea played. We will see how other Toss players fair.
|
On November 19 2010 07:18 ssregitoss wrote:
tester could expand early but his scouting probe denied.and it was too late to put a nexus down.i think he wanted to expand after his first collo.i dont agree with day9 for fast collo review.cause even nexgenius goes for it and he is currently the best pvt (lost to hopetorture only).i refrerance these korean guys play rather than usa or europen guys.
It may be a difference of styles, but I think Korean terran are more aggressive. As you said, Tester wasn't sure if Nada is going to play using 2 bases, so he could only get prepared for an attack.
When Tester saw that Nada expanded to gold, he was already behind food, and resources, and was already pinned back to his base. The contain was such that Tester couldn't just expand. So he had to prepare an army composition which will allow him to break the contain and expand. I am not entirely sure if he knew whether Nada had ghosts or not. He knew Nada had tons of vikings, so he went phoenixes.
It's risky, but let's remember that Nada is no mug. The guy is a macro beast. He made Tester go defensive.
You can be a very aggressive toss if you do some blink stalker stuff, but it's so tedious to watch. And it is not necessarily successful either.
|
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote:
Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is?
wtf is wrong with you, just because they're in the GSL doesn't mean they don't make mistakes. It's okay to be critical of someone's performance even if they win, they could have done things better.
|
|
|
So when the pros themself critique about where the progamers could have improved on, the forumers(the minority) hate on them and give some half-assed reply? No wonder why they shun the strategy forums like the plague
Without them, we would not have known the critical analysis that this pros seem to come to from just looking at their gameplay. Every minute detail would be much more apparent to them while we might be insensitive to such. Be glad that they are here, they provide a deeper view of something that we couldn't possibly decipher at first sight.
|
This convo just makes me want to see a top NA vs top Korean showmatch even more.
|
wtf... how did I miss my 2 favorite players playing.... against each other... Nada and Tester :/
|
It's easier to strategize/analyze/criticize in hindsight than it is to actually play in real time. This generalizes to any activity that people do that others criticize.
Tyler is undoubtedly aware of this obvious fact.
Note, just because a player is very good does not necessarily mean that they are a perfect strategist. Tester has had some superb micro and decision making in tough spots - he is most famous for his force field splits/cheese defense/etc. However, we many top players are renowned for one superb strength and for weaknesses in other areas. For example, BoxeR was notoriously strong on micro while 'weak' on macro, but still considered a top progamer in his time.
If I read him correctly, Tyler is commenting on Tester's particular execution of a Korean groupthink PvT colossus/phoenix build which he's surprised is still even around. Apparently Tester's other skills saved him, but with a more efficient build strategy his play could have been devastating.
|
Anyone know what happened with:
(T)RainBOw vs (Z)TheWinD
(P)InCa vs (T)Maka
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry, did not see there was another thread.
10x!
|
On November 19 2010 06:56 unaliased wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 06:53 Uncultured wrote:
Dude who are you starting all of this drama over? Tyler? Maybe you should go back and read his posts. There was nothing even slightly resembling him acting like an ass. He said he wasn't impressed with a players play, because it had flaws in it.
How can you even criticize that? He didn't even say Tester was a bad player or anything, he's stating that he felt disappointed.... ><
God forbid pro's have feelings too. I find it funny that people are mad about me saying I'm not impressed by Tyler, but it's perfectly ok for Tyler to start out by saying he's not impressed by Tester. At least I stated why I'm not impressed by Tyler, he hasn't accomplished anything near what Tester has. Simple fact. But my simple fact is the dick one.
Except yes, Tyler has probably accomplished as much as Tester. It's not a "simple fact", learn some BW history man.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
