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Avaclon
United States80 Posts
I think ssKs won because he did exactly what PainUser said in SoTG, trying new combinations. Sure some of what Tyler said is true, Thors would totally counter that, but I'm pretty sure at heat of the moment, NaDa couldn't grasp that. Great game by both players~ | ||
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gnutz
Germany666 Posts
Later Nada only dropped once (before the Phoenixes not at all) so he had obvious a disadvantage with MMM against Phoenix+Colossus. And he still won almost. From a shoutcasters point surely amazing to watch, but from an analytic standpoint and desperate protoss pretty terrible. And btw: Imo it wasnt innovative. It was basically the Colossus + Phoenix into HT Build we saw the last month (at least did i). | ||
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Obbalord
Germany166 Posts
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traca
146 Posts
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Obbalord
Germany166 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On November 19 2010 05:26 Xxavi wrote: I agree completely. Thanks for pointing that out. Initial one-liner was that Tester was bad/unimpressive/sloppy call whatever you want. Then it turns out the mistakes were from Nada, who didn't use PainUser strategy. The only thing Tester did is a risky strategy which can be effectively countered, and I guess that's annoying to some that Tester got away with it. Your summary of my criticism is way off. It's like I'm teaching a grad class but I summarize a 2 hour lecture in 5 minutes, and you're a freshman in undergrad anyway, so there's like no chance we're gonna have clear communication. Tester can do essentially the same build (gateways, robotics for observer to scout, expand, colossus) but he can optimize the order to have an equal or better economy and definitely a stronger army. This optimization doesn't sacrifice any safety. It sacrifices nothing. It's just better. What is your point about me talking about NaDa when criticizing Tester? Tester won the game so there are two ways to criticize his play: (1) how he could have won more easily while doing essentially the same thing and (2) what things could have theoretically beaten him that he needs to address. I did both, first by saying that he could have improved his build to dominate NaDa in the midgame and second by saying the different things NaDa could have done in the lategame to beat Tester. I don't have to say what Tester needs to do to defeat the things that NaDa could have theoretically done in order to defend my criticism of Tester. And Xxavi, when you say The only thing Tester did is a risky strategy which can be effectively countered, and I guess that's annoying to some that Tester got away with it. that is essentially what I said in my very first post On November 19 2010 03:02 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Not impressed by Tester. Not surprised he can be sniped in a bo3. His play on LT so sloppy, so vulnerable. except no, I'm not annoyed about it. Everyone knows Tester unexpectedly failed to qualify for both GSL2 and GSL3. We don't get to watch those games. But we do get to check out Tester's play in these games and I'm looking to see if it's impressively rock solid or if it has some faults that anybody with good mechanics could possibly take advantage of in a bo3. My original comment is saying "yeah I can see how he's not qualifying" | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
 nada v tester games are good watch but tbh we can tell from the games that nada is still learning sc2. he has the great macro mechanics etc but he seems abit weak on the unit composition and micro etc. hope to see nada fully get used to sc2 asap!! | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
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Klamity
United States994 Posts
On November 19 2010 05:26 MayorITC wrote: How is anyone blowing things out of proportion? The thing that irks people is that Idra/Nony are criticizing a player without explaining WHY they think that. Yes, I'm aware that Nony did explain himself in subsequent posts after someone asked him to explain himself. If you know something that no one else does, that's great. But if you're going to say "so-and-so is bad" without telling why then why even bother posting? Keep your smug comments to yourself. There are times when explanations aren't needed, but when the majority of the previous posts are about how well Tester played, you better explain explain yourself if you're going to disagree with the common opinion. This would be fine if he didn't explain himself 4 or 5 posts down, only to continually have people poke at it. You could try reading before commenting with something idiotic. His initial comment more or less says "Tester's build wasn't refined, I am not impressed." Not once did he say Tester was bad, and further, he's commenting on ONE game. | ||
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unaliased
United States83 Posts
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Leeoku
1617 Posts
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
Tester is an awesome player, but with his good share of mistakes and weak points, just as any other player. He seems to play at the edge of the pit the entire time, which means his play really isn't too solid, and explains why in a best of 3 he can be unexpectedly be taken out. Stop the fanboyism. Actually, this reminds me of how day9 pointed out nony's mistakes in a recent game. No one would say day9 is just BMing nony, he just analyzed it thoroughly and came to some conclusions, the same thing nony did here. | ||
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sickoota
Canada918 Posts
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote: Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is? Hey man some people appreciate having pros come on the forums and give their thoughts on strategies so how bout you don't be a dick for all our sakes? | ||
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unaliased
United States83 Posts
On November 19 2010 06:46 sickoota wrote: Hey man some people appreciate having pros come on the forums and give their thoughts on strategies so how bout you don't be a dick for all our sakes? So, it's fine for pros to act like dicks when pointing out facts, just no one else. I get it. The pros should act less professional because they are pros. | ||
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fxSolo
United States42 Posts
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote: Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is? This is a genetic fallacy, an appeal to accomplishment. Just because Tyler isn't competing in GSL3 or hasn't competed in any of the GSLs doesn't make his analysis or criticisms any less valid. | ||
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
How can you even criticize that? He didn't even say Tester was a bad player or anything, he's stating that he felt disappointed.... >< God forbid pro's have feelings too. | ||
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unaliased
United States83 Posts
On November 19 2010 06:50 fxSolo wrote: This is a genetic fallacy, an appeal to accomplishment. Just because Tyler isn't competing in GSL3 or hasn't competed in any of the GSLs doesn't make his analysis or criticisms any less valid. Saying things like "I'm not impressed by Tester because he didn't use Day9 approved builds" is pretty silly. I don't see Tester hopping on here to talk about how he's not impressed by Tyler. | ||
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Jacobs Ladder
United States1705 Posts
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote: Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is? And demonstrated phenomenal play at MLG Dallas, taking out many great players including GSL 3 qualifier Ret. He might not be in Korea, but I feel he can comment. Moreover, his commentary is pretty interesting. | ||
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unaliased
United States83 Posts
On November 19 2010 06:53 Uncultured wrote: Dude who are you starting all of this drama over? Tyler? Maybe you should go back and read his posts. There was nothing even slightly resembling him acting like an ass. He said he wasn't impressed with a players play, because it had flaws in it. How can you even criticize that? He didn't even say Tester was a bad player or anything, he's stating that he felt disappointed.... >< God forbid pro's have feelings too. I find it funny that people are mad about me saying I'm not impressed by Tyler, but it's perfectly ok for Tyler to start out by saying he's not impressed by Tester. At least I stated why I'm not impressed by Tyler, he hasn't accomplished anything near what Tester has. Simple fact. But my simple fact is the dick one. | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On November 19 2010 06:25 unaliased wrote: Tester = S class. Tyler = won a gosu coaching match. Why doesn't Tyler bother to fly out to Korea so he can show us all how much better he is? OMG *Fury!* Can these bloody posters just *POOF*! How the fuck can there be a problem critiquing a players game even though he won? I'm quite confident that Tester will look at the replay and see the same holes in his play and try to shut those holes. What kind of discussion is this anyway, and why is people jumping Tyler because he expresses weaknesses in a good players play? They are all true and all you kids who somehow think that critiquing = saying that you're better than that player are just fucking dumb. Learn to read and learn to intepret before bloody posting. On November 19 2010 04:35 Xxavi wrote: Well, if I understood Nony wrongly, he can correct it. But what he said is simple, that he is not impressed with Tester (isn't this a way to say that he is average/not impressive?), that Tester was sloppy, and he can be unsurprisingly sniped. To a degree, it is correct, but I would attribute it to the current balance of the game. No Protoss is at a level where he cannot be sniped. Or am I missing somebody? Where are the armies of better Protoss players? Genius? Inca? oGsMC? Huk? Kiwikaki? Tyler? They can all be sniped. Their game can look sloppy, but that's not because these players, and Tester, are bad, it's just the race is weak. You can get a ghost, and that strategy is worse, that's correct. But that fact is more of the balance issue, than player issue. We either accept that the current crop of protoss players are sloppy and unimpressive, just mediocre, or we give credit where it's due and say that to a degree Tester was lucky. Because Terran is overpowered. I can accept that. Gonna go back to my previous comment and say that the game is still very fresh and evolving, and that's why it's still very interesting to see the very best players play _not optimal_ and it's great to point out those flaws to step it up even further. Sky has no limit etc... Ofc anyone can be sniped, and that only means we're far from "knowing" how this game should be played yet, but having a more solid play will net results over a longer period of time. That's just fact. And this does not have to do with balance. It's metagame and it will change. On November 19 2010 05:17 MayorITC wrote: What other build could Tester have done on LT anyway, given the circumstances? FE? He had no idea what Nada's build order was because his probe got denied. All-in after seeing Nada's expo? By that time Nada had more production facilities and his expo had been up for awhile. The timing to punish Nada's FE was over by the time the observer scouted it. By the time Tester got his own expo up, he was extremely behind economically. And he's not going to win through mechanics anyway, so his hope lies in micro and micro-oriented units (Oh hi, Collossi and Phoenixes) and winning a 200/200 army clash to either 1) counter nada or 2) get enough breathing room to take his own expos. But hey, if I'm wrong please feel free to enlighten me as to what Tester should have done that game, instead of talking about how Nada messed up. I mean your initial point was about how sloppy Tester's play was, but then you spend most of your post talking about Nada messed up. Again, please, try to reintepret what was said before jumping the gun. There was nothing wrong with the build, but there was several holes in how it was executed. I.e HOW THINGS WERE ORDERED AND DONE. These are two completely different things, and they were pointed out by Nony. Once those holes are shut in his play he will look incredibly _SOLID_. | ||
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