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On November 07 2010 11:50 photomuse wrote:
I agree with your decision. The difference between XC and LT is significant, and the games should be played on the previously agreed upon maps.
It is also understandable that such a mistake was made (although this should be rare). In the future, I recommend that you put in a mechanical checklist process that each ref goes through at the beginning of each game:
1. What round it it?
2. What map should it be?
3. Who is the higher seed?
4. Are the colors correct?
This way such errors will be caught in the first minute of the game. I feel like you should add a rule that if a game is stopped for any reason after more than 6 minutes have passed, then there will a forced 10 minute break for the players to collect themselves before the series resumes.
LOL, kinda seems obvious doesn't it? Like how did this happen? These little mistakes were made all day, and then he's "all about the rules" in the OP...
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Mistakes happen. Thanks for taking the time to tell us your reasoning behind the decision. I completely understand and agree with the call. 
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On November 07 2010 11:49 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 11:41 awu25 wrote:On November 07 2010 11:36 BlitZl0l wrote:
Huk should have been DQ'd for tahts halo.
Bet MLG wouldn't even attempt to go there, have a damn riot in that place.
What ever happened to the customer is always right, no way you thought the fans would just be okay with this decision, that's why you came and made this post.
If you aren't pleasing the people who pay for this shit, who are you holding this tournament for? wow what? customer is always right is bullshit the tournament is held for the players the fans are there because they are interested in watching players compete No, the tournament is held for the spectators. Sponsors don't provide prize money because they like people who play video games really well, they provide prize money because players draw spectators.
The sponsors are MLG's clients, not the spectators. MLG's job is to get as many spectators as possible so their clients (sponsors) give them more money. Every decision MLG (or GOMtv for that matter) make goes back to this.
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On November 07 2010 11:53 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 11:43 Pills wrote:On November 07 2010 11:37 Jibba wrote:
It's really unfortunate, but I believe you made the correct decision and I'm especially pleased that you were forthright about the situation and its reasoning. Follow the rules now, revise them later. That's how it needs to go.
There's minor infractions and then there's ones that actually affect gameplay. Having the wrong starting map obviously falls in the latter, while chitchat and switched colors are the former. Chit chat can be distracting to your opponent. Switching your color can be advantageous too: Qxc chose purple, which is the same color as the creep, and allows him to almost be camouflaged on the minimap while he's on creep. I say you restart all of those games if you're intent on following the rules without fail. Stop being a facetious ass.
he's not, what the fuck are you talking about? if they're going to follow blatantly bullshit rules like the map restart by the letter then there's no reason not to follow the rest as well
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Good call, by MLG you do have to stick to your guns and enforce the rules. People cry about this shit in every sport since I can remember, as if asking the players is a good idea. What if the losing player goes, "actually no I want to restart". Now what? Lots of drama, lots of bad PR ugly situation. It's not always fair and its not always pretty but without the rule book the competition wouldn't even exist and you can't just hope that everyone involved is going to do the "right thing" every time, that leaves a lot to chance.
Its been said above as well but, yea don't sweat it MLG one thing people will always do is fucking complain its a universal truth.
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On November 07 2010 10:36 MLG_Lee wrote:
All,
A quick post from the event. MLG definitely recognizes that this was an error on our part--most especially catching it so late. And we definitely apologize to Pain.User and Tyler both for the error.
The blunt truth of the matter is that we're running a very large live event and we're all working 20 hours a day while we're here. Mistakes happen and we work as fast as possible to correct them when they do. So, we also apologize to you guys as their fans (and hopefully ours).
That said, the reason that it was a full reset was because that's what in the rules. A league is based on its credibility and its credibility comes from how closely it adheres to its rules. This rule left no room for discretion. We don't make up rules on the fly at the tournament. On the rare occasions where we don't have a rule for a given situation, the tournament admin and the league commissioner consult to make a call. But AFTER the event, we revisit the situation and then codify the rules.
Any questions, please ask. I'll be monitoring this thread.
Thanks,
Lee
Makes sense to me...
As long as it was in the rules in a written document that was available to all players before everything happened, the only fault was catching it so late.
It happens.
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On November 07 2010 11:55 cup of joe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 11:53 Jibba wrote:On November 07 2010 11:43 Pills wrote:On November 07 2010 11:37 Jibba wrote:
It's really unfortunate, but I believe you made the correct decision and I'm especially pleased that you were forthright about the situation and its reasoning. Follow the rules now, revise them later. That's how it needs to go.
There's minor infractions and then there's ones that actually affect gameplay. Having the wrong starting map obviously falls in the latter, while chitchat and switched colors are the former. Chit chat can be distracting to your opponent. Switching your color can be advantageous too: Qxc chose purple, which is the same color as the creep, and allows him to almost be camouflaged on the minimap while he's on creep. I say you restart all of those games if you're intent on following the rules without fail. Stop being a facetious ass. he's not, what the fuck are you talking about? if they're going to follow blatantly bullshit rules like the map restart by the letter then there's no reason not to follow the rest as well
The facetiousness is calling "map restart" a blatantly bullshit rule and equating it with minor issues like wrong colors or chatting.
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United States12607 Posts
Please don't post with anger or hate in this thread. MLG came here because it believed TL capable of a civil discussion; don't betray that respect.
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Terrible decision imo, should have let that game play out and taken the result than restart the game on the right map. Maybe if it was 3 minutes in and both players are still making their gate/rax but not when the game is all but decided. Should've been handled on a case by case basis, not just make a blanket rule and read from it every time the situation arises.
A league is based on its credibility and its credibility comes from how closely it adheres to its rules.
could not disagree more, should be based on how well it treats its players and how gracefully it handles exceptional circumstances, and that restart failed terribly on both accounts. (all in my opinion of course)
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Exactly, I said that on the previous page. Everyone assumes PainUser would have just said, "yeah lets keep playing." But what if he didn't? I could only imagine the type of fallout from that especially if he went on to win the series 2-0.
The admin made a decision, if he decided the game will continue that is fine as well. However, he made his decision with the rules at hand that he knew, it shouldn't be in the players hands to make that decision that far into the game because it is a lose/lose situation.
And for the people comparing chatting to choosing the wrong map you are missing the point. Allowing them to continue that game wouldn't be bending the rules, it would be making up new rules. Letting players chat is bending rules, saying players can choose to override existing rules if they both agree to compromise is making up a whole new process and set of rules.
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On November 07 2010 12:03 FLuE wrote:
Exactly, I said that on the previous page. Everyone assumes PainUser would have just said, "yeah lets keep playing." But what if he didn't? I could only imagine the type of fallout from that especially if he went on to win the series 2-0.
The admin made a decision, if he decided the game will continue that is fine as well. However, he made his decision with the rules at hand that he knew, it shouldn't be in the players hands to make that decision that far into the game because it is a lose/lose situation.
And for the people comparing chatting to choosing the wrong map you are missing the point. Allowing them to continue that game wouldn't be bending the rules, it would be making up new rules. Letting players chat is bending rules, saying players can choose to override existing rules if they both agree to compromise is making up a whole new process and set of rules.
Letting players chat isn't bending the rules, it's explicitly breaking the rules. MLG shouldn't have that rule in the first place if they don't intend to enforce it.
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On November 07 2010 11:56 Synk wrote:
Its been said above as well but, yea don't sweat it MLG one thing people will always do is fucking complain its a universal truth.
...and this means no criticism should be taken seriously?
You can't brush this off with a "people always complain". There is enough consensus that this was a problematic ruling.
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On November 07 2010 12:03 FLuE wrote:
Exactly, I said that on the previous page. Everyone assumes PainUser would have just said, "yeah lets keep playing." But what if he didn't?
Yeah I'm not sure why there's that assumption. If it were me I'd have wanted to start over. I'm not at a tourney to play nice I'm there to win and make money. Anything within the confines of the rules to let me do that, I'm doing.
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If Tyler would have won the series, no one would have argued. So i think it was still the right call.
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Honestly it seems a bit sketchy. For example, "wow this map is dark x.x" is surely not pre-game sportsmanship, yet no penalty was given to Painuser. Also, had Huk won the "taht's halo" map, do you guys really believe MLG would have stripped him of the game? Consistency upholding rules can't be used as an argument here.
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Lee, what I find most surprising were
1) The players did not know what the correct maps were. The players can prepare their strategies much better if they knew what the maps are for each round. It seems the first map is only communicated to the players during warm-up just before the game.
2) The casters also did not know what the correct maps were. I just feel this kind of crucial information (and also the bracket) should be available to them at all times, maybe on a monitor by the side.
I suggest for the map information to be included and integrated into the bracket website so it acts like a one-stop reference that all players, caster, viewers can quickly look up.
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Integrity is what MLG should be aiming for. When you have a big community you tend to have cases were you want to "give an inch" to people who are apart of it, but this is a slippery slope, because somewhere down the line it will come back to bite you when you will inevitability have to enforce a double standard. There are places were leniency should be given, things like typing in chat or someone being late, those aren't what you call "huge deals", but something like playing on the wrong map, well, that is tricky line to tread.
As much as people hate to admit it, MLG did the right thing here.
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On November 07 2010 12:03 FLuE wrote:
Letting players chat is bending rules, saying players can choose to override existing rules if they both agree to compromise is making up a whole new process and set of rules.
Except they did exactly that when Huk did his Halo comment. Instead of adhering to their rules they went through a whole new process, which some call common sense, and decided: "Oh that's harmless. He's just making a good joke and not trying to distract his opponent in the game so he doesn't have to forfeit the game." I realize it's not the same magnitude but when part of the justification depends on complete adherence to written rules, you can't have it both ways.
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Excepted decision from MLG. No complaints. Shit happens.
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Letting players chat isn't bending the rules, it's explicitly breaking the rules. MLG shouldn't have that rule in the first place if they don't intend to enforce it.
Common, use some common sense here. The intent of the chatting rule is so someone doesn't type nonstop the entire match being annoying or intentionally creating a disruptive atmosphere. The point of the rule isn't so that if an occasional comment is made here and there a player is DQ'ed or penalized.
It is like the speed limit. Even though it is 55, we all go a few miles an hour over and get away with it that is just understood.
We have pages of comments in the MLG threads talking about how important map selection has been and now all the sudden we are going to act like playing an opening game match on the wrong map isn't a big deal? It is a shame that it happened, no doubt. Now they can go back though and clean up the rule going forward. I personally think not restarting and allowing the game to continue could be a much worse, slippery slope situation and would have shown less integrity to allow the game then to restart it.
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EPT
