I used to think korea and the rest of the world can be on the same footing
The thing is it depends on foreign scenes growing and advancing and that hasn't happened. Korea has a monthly 85,0000 first place prize tournament, pro teams in way better sponsorship positions, etc. Its inevitable that korea dominates if they have pro teams living together, 10x the amount of competition and way more dedicated players.
The gap will only widen, even seeing liquid players like Jinro come to MLG should be a wakeup call that the only way to compete is in a pro house with dedicated practice partners.
Whenever SC:BW teams switch over if it ever happens will destroy any illusion of parity.
if NesTea or Marineking or even a handful of fou players entered dreamhack they would easily dominate.
On November 27 2010 09:57 Chicane wrote: Ya it is a giant pain, and the website is designed poorly enough that you can't even find a bracket. It also doesn't help that the OP was never updated with it, but I believe I found a link somewhere on page 97 if I remember correctly (of this thread). Too lazy to check... good luck finding it.
It looks like the Liquipedia page is the best option. (Thanks for that) Can't believe I didn't look at that haha.
On November 27 2010 10:00 dacthehork wrote: I used to think korea and the rest of the world can be on the same footing
The thing is it depends on foreign scenes growing and advancing and that hasn't happened. Korea has a monthly 85,0000 first place prize tournament, pro teams in way better sponsorship positions, etc. Its inevitable that korea dominates if they have pro teams living together, 10x the amount of competition and way more dedicated players.
The gap will only widen, even seeing liquid players like Jinro come to MLG should be a wakeup call that the only way to compete is in a pro house with dedicated practice partners.
Whenever SC:BW teams switch over if it ever happens will destroy any illusion of parity.
if NesTea or Marineking or even a handful of fou players entered dreamhack they would easily dominate.
Well I made sure to say that I was NOT saying that Koreans aren't better overall, I do feel that is the case, but I feel that too often people seem to say "Oh Koreans, they will dominate for sure" and treat them like the Gods of SC2. Then when they get matched against each other you instantly see "WOW DREAMHACK IS SO RIGGED" with name calling included, just because everyone assumes that they would insta win if they were in completely different brackets. I am not even saying TOP won't win, he is a good player and has a good shot, but some of the bias seems ridiculous.
Hmm... in an attempt to restate that, I don't think there is anything wrong with believing Koreans are better overall than foreigners, but my first post on this topic (on page 280) was that there is no need to give the Koreans so much credit that anything such as them being paired up or not winning means the competition is rigged. Ugh... I'm not wording these posts well and I know it. Maybe if you haven't read what I first said on 280 it might be more clear.
In any event I am not expecting to look eye to eye on everything, but the primary focus of the first post was to say it isn't necessary to use words like "Eurotrash" and call the competition rigged merely over the Koreans getting paired up.
On November 27 2010 10:00 dacthehork wrote: if NesTea or Marineking or even a handful of fou players entered dreamhack they would easily dominate.
I doubt any kind of domination would be going on at all. They might win it, sure, but to assume they would do it without more than one scrappy win is completely unfounded.
In fact, if more Koreans from their top teams follow in the path of Top and Inca and join top foreign tournaments, I'm pretty sure the bubble of invincible Koreans (at least when it comes to playing out of Korea) will burst quite soon. I do hope more of them do so GSL isn't the only comparison we have, because using only the GSL isn't exactly fair on the foreigners.
They didn't look too strong on Blizzcon, they don't look too strong on Dreamhack either (in fact Inca looked completely out of place against Tyler). They've got a slight edge over the others, but any top NA/EU player can go toe to toe with them and have a realistic chance of winning.
My quote of the day by TB, during game 2 between Tyler and ActionJesuz:
"HE IS STILL THERE! HE IS STILL THERE! ACTIONJESUZ WILL NOT DIE! IT IS LIKE THE FREAKING RESURRECTION, HE WAITS 3 MINUTES AND SUDDENLY POPS OUT OF THE GRAVE!"
On November 27 2010 10:35 Talin wrote:They've got a slight edge over the others, but any top NA/EU player can go toe to toe with them and have a realistic chance of winning.
Isn't that what most people say? TOP NA/EU players can beat TOP Korean players. But there are a LOT more TOP Korean player compared to the number of TOP EU/NA players.
Because they have their training houses - they can practice with the best on a regular basis. Talk about SC2 with top players during their lunch / dinner.
Compare this to Tyler (correct me if I'm wrong pls) who plays maybe 3-4 hours a day (I think he doesn't put down 10+ hours like the top Koreans). Has a wife. Has classes or a job. But he has this natural talent at SC(2) which puts him at the highest level.
But a lot of NA/EU players don't have this talent and cannot put more hours into SC than Tyler.
And the Koreans who are able to put in a lot of hours outnumber the non-talented / time constricted foreigners.
On November 27 2010 10:00 dacthehork wrote: if NesTea or Marineking or even a handful of fou players entered dreamhack they would easily dominate.
I doubt any kind of domination would be going on at all. They might win it, sure, but to assume they would do it without more than one scrappy win is completely unfounded.
In fact, if more Koreans from their top teams follow in the path of Top and Inca and join top foreign tournaments, I'm pretty sure the bubble of invincible Koreans (at least when it comes to playing out of Korea) will burst quite soon. I do hope more of them do so GSL isn't the only comparison we have, because using only the GSL isn't exactly fair on the foreigners.
They didn't look too strong on Blizzcon, they don't look too strong on Dreamhack either (in fact Inca looked completely out of place against Tyler). They've got a slight edge over the others, but any top NA/EU player can go toe to toe with them and have a realistic chance of winning.
Like, the same top foreigners that aren't qualifying? You think Select can go "toe to toe" with Cool? I don't think so.
On November 27 2010 10:41 Wazabo wrote: My quote of the day by TB, during game 2 between Tyler and ActionJesuz:
"HE IS STILL THERE! HE IS STILL THERE! ACTIONJESUZ WILL NOT DIE! IT IS LIKE THE FREAKING RESURRECTION, HE WAITS 3 MINUTES AND SUDDENLY POPS OUT OF THE GRAVE!"
Dude for about 5 minutes the Biscuit was spitting pure gold. You can take any line out of it and turn it into an awesome quote. Actually, no, it wouldn't do it justice without his accent.
He's just too awesome. That combined with the roach play from Jesus was the most entertaining game I've ever watched by far.
EPT
