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Team EG will be facing Fnatic MSI today at 10:00KST in the SGL Starcraft 2 Clan league!
These two teams need no introduction and is easily among the top Starcraft 2 professional teams today. We saw last week an epic, down to the wire match between EG and ROOT, just earlier today, saw EG vs VT Gaming and today EG will be facing FnaticMSI. These two teams have some record together not only in Starcraft 2, but all the way back in SCBW and various other competitive games.
Fnatic Lineup:
Protoss: TT1 <-- Starter
Zerg: KawaiiRice
Terran: Gretorp
Protoss: Xeris
EG Lineup:
Protoss: iNcontroL <-- Starter
Zerg: StrifeCro
Protoss: Axslav
Terran: LzGaMeR
Live Now!
A stream of this series can be found on the GosuGamers channel here: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=GG.net_Stream
Games finished
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TTOne just walked over Incontrol with 3 gate/robo, the latter tried to FE in PvP :'( Neither player micro'd that well (immortals shooting zealots, no focus fire on immortals) but the army advantage was just too large. At least it was short and sweet.
TTOne vs. Axslav now!
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No sen? 
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sen is on a plane. 
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TTOne doing a lot of work says the commentator. I missed the beginning of the Axslav game, but it seemed pretty standard with gateway + colossus armies clashing. TTOne's stalker backup beating Axlav's chargelots with good positioning and TTOne takes the first battle, with the game snowballing from there.
TTOne vs. StrifeCro now!
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KawaiiRice switched over to Z now? (I knew he always offraced Z quite often... but is this for srs now?)
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u know fnatic members must be on planes if Xeris is in the lineup looooooool
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On October 25 2010 10:35 LuckyFool wrote:
u know fnatic members must be on planes if Xeris is in the lineup looooooool
LOLOLOLOLOLO
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On October 25 2010 10:36 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 10:35 LuckyFool wrote:
u know fnatic members must be on planes if Xeris is in the lineup looooooool LOLOLOLOLOLO
r u kidding, xeris gonna be the anchor!
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Why isn't Sen playing?
EDIT: Nevermind question answered by reading thread.
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On October 25 2010 10:34 Entropic wrote:
KawaiiRice switched over to Z now? (I knew he always offraced Z quite often... but is this for srs now?)
yes
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On October 25 2010 10:44 Ocedic wrote:
Why isn't Sen playing?
Seriously? The thread is like 10 posts long, please read it before posting.
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On October 25 2010 10:34 Entropic wrote:
KawaiiRice switched over to Z now? (I knew he always offraced Z quite often... but is this for srs now?)
Yes I believe he has said he feels tvz favors zerg so he switched (or at least he was saying that in the thread about zerg after new patch or w/e).
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no JF?
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JF is a seasonal player...Doesn't really play during school.
Fenix and Sen are flying back from blizzcon. That leaves fnatic a bit thin at the moment, paving the way for the sc2 bonjwa Xeris to show some us some awsum skillz.
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TTOne vs. StrifeCro feels extremely high level. New age stalker/immortal/sentry play crushing roach spam, and then the transition to hydra demolishes TTOne's army just as it pushes to the zerg natural (really awesome concave from StrifeCro).
TTOne (3 base) switches to zealot/stalker/colossus and StrifeCro (4 base) tries to answers with corruptors but doesn't have enough by the time TTOne pushes (4 colo vs. 4 corruptors). Good game!
LZGamer to try and reverse all-kill!
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dejavu? I swear this has happened before.
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On October 25 2010 10:51 Raisauce wrote:no JF?
Agreed, where's JF?!
Also, thanks for showing how to play PvZ TTOne- I've been having a lot of difficulty with hydra/roach :D
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TT1 allkill? 3-0 at the moment
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JF basically quit SC cuz he has no time to play.
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On October 25 2010 10:55 Xeris wrote:
JF basically quit SC cuz he has no time to play.
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TT1 is under-rated, or at least under-appreciated...very solid play
hope to see him go farther in some big name tournaments
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People who switch races after patches are cool.
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On October 25 2010 10:55 Xeris wrote:
JF basically quit SC cuz he has no time to play.
noooo
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Anyone know where or if the replays are going to be released? Can't watch the stream due to my net being terrible atm :{
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looks like they didnt need to bring out their secret weapon : xeris
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On October 25 2010 10:58 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
TT1 is under-rated, or at least under-appreciated...very solid play
hope to see him go farther in some big name tournaments
did he win the 200$ wolf cup?? who is JF?
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Well, EG can say they played back to back clanwars. Still kind of disappointing :-\.
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Wowowow. TTOne all kills EG.
Great timing. Sees the 2rax FE and pushes it with gateway/immortal army just as LZ is looking to fly it down. LZ feels pressured to get down his ramp (not knowing TTOne hadn't expanded yet) and makes the mistake of pushing out with a much smaller army. Forcefield behind him and gets slaughtered. GG.
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was rlly fun to watch nice stream
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Day9 now, perfect timing. I love my SC2 Sundays as I do work.
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wats the link to this league?
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TT1 so scary today; glad I didn't have to fight him
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Grandmaster Payam FTW. Tu es le meilleur! xD
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
tt1 is sick good
gg's guys <3 hope to be closer next time!
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Gogo TT1  Good games from the first ones I saw.
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well i didn't expect that, gg wp TT1.
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On October 25 2010 11:08 willeesmalls wrote:
Well, EG can say they played back to back clanwars. Still kind of disappointing :-\.
They played 3 clan wars in a row lol, vt and i think HG was the name, before that.
Regardless I don't think EG would make that excuse, good play by TT1, definitely can't dance around that fact, as all killing a team like EG shouldn't be downplayed.
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I missed the games! Will the replays become available? :D
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On October 25 2010 10:34 Entropic wrote:
KawaiiRice switched over to Z now? (I knew he always offraced Z quite often... but is this for srs now?)
He played as Zerg in our Match. I was a little worried I'm not gonna lie lol.
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mad props to TT1
fking Boss!
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wp by tt1 and congrats to fnatic. fnatic is one of the most underrated teams in sc2 (not that they are lowly rated but they deserve to be up there with the very top like eg, and root if they just had a few more players). A bit sad I didn't get to see my favorite terran Gretorp play (Gretorp vs Axslav would have been amazing), but ggs nonetheless.
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i think Fnatic is seen higher than EG and almost as good as root imo
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On October 25 2010 11:51 rasnj wrote:
wp by tt1 and congrats to fnatic. fnatic is one of the most underrated teams in sc2 (not that they are lowly rated but they deserve to be up there with the very top like eg, and root if they just had a few more players). A bit sad I didn't get to see my favorite terran Gretorp play (Gretorp vs Axslav would have been amazing), but ggs nonetheless.
we've never lost to EG in a CW in sc2.
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No xeris
At least TT1 all-kill EG
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AzaleasFighter, Xeris: Sorry if my comment was taken as me implying that eg is in any way better than fnatic (or seen as making any kind of direct comparison). I just meant that people (in tl threads) usually seem more optimistic about the chances of eg players, than fnatic players. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Sosad
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On October 25 2010 10:35 LuckyFool wrote:
u know fnatic members must be on planes if Xeris is in the lineup looooooool
RUTHLESS lol
<3 Xeris
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On October 25 2010 12:06 rasnj wrote:
AzaleasFighter, Xeris: Sorry if my comment was taken as me implying that eg is in any way better than fnatic (or seen as making any kind of direct comparison). I just meant that people (in tl threads) usually seem more optimistic about the chances of eg players, than fnatic players. Maybe I'm wrong.
wasnt angry ^^ thx for apology tho had tosay my opinion tho
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its pretty obvious the top 3 teams in america. I always wonder how european teams stack up. Its a shame we couldnt see some of fnatic's international players and eg's one
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Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~
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On October 25 2010 11:08 backtoback wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 10:58 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
TT1 is under-rated, or at least under-appreciated...very solid play
hope to see him go farther in some big name tournaments did he win the 200$ wolf cup?? who is JF?
Now I usually don't roll up my sleeves and think "Now lets make a post.", but son you gotta get educated- especially since you're Canadian.
JF is  IefNaij (his real name is Jian Fei, so most people call him JF), the legendary Canadian Broodwar player. This mother fuckin' baller won the TSL at a ridiculously young age, rolling a bunch of big named players with his sick reaver micro. Then he aired in a really good TeamLiquid Attack episode in the heyday of TLA (God I'm getting so nostalgic over all of this, TLA with Chill and Rage was seriously like the best stuff ever- for bonus lols go to the beginning of the second part for "heyheythisiscombatexrecordinganotherfpvodheyheythisiscombatexrecordinganotherfpvod, ect.)
Anyways, then he fucking cleaned up in what is probably my one of my favourite TL series, Liquibition, before getting taken out by the Chinese Zerg monster, F91. I think around that time he was at UofT, so you didn't see much of him for a while. Then TSL 2 rolls around, and bam out of the blue JF takes down Terran (lol <3 Artosis), and White-Ra before losing to NonY, taking an impressive fourth.
I think the last time I heard of him playing was at WCG Canada, where he demolished Kiwikaki, and Kiwi is widely regarded as being one of the best North American Protoss players. So yeah, JF's a fucking beast. I guess before he stopped playing he was around top 30ish (I think) in North America.
:S somewhat incoherent post, made me so nostalgic. I guess I became a big fan because right when I got into TL was around the time of TSL 1 when JF was winning right, left and center... good times...
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On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~
ya with maybe dignitas, atn, or rage
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On October 25 2010 13:17 emperorchampion wrote:
I think the last time I heard of him playing was at WCG Canada, where he demolished Kiwikaki, and Kiwi is widely regarded as being one of the best North American Protoss players.
My understand is that Kiwi was a wc3 player and there hasnt been a wcg for sc2 yet
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On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~
North American teams plz -_-
But seriously: TT1, JF, SLush, Kiwikaki, and Drewbie are all Canadian.
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On October 25 2010 13:20 GobIin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 13:17 emperorchampion wrote:
I think the last time I heard of him playing was at WCG Canada, where he demolished Kiwikaki, and Kiwi is widely regarded as being one of the best North American Protoss players.
My understand is that Kiwi was a wc3 player and there hasnt been a wcg for sc2 yet
I guess it wasn't an official WCG event, it was just a side "test run" tourney held at the same time as WCG.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141596
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On October 25 2010 13:17 GobIin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~ ya with maybe dignitas, atn, or rage
rage sucks ? they only have 1 good player (Tarson) the rest are pretty not-too-good
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lol didn't give xeris a chance to forget a gateway eh? nice job fnatic!
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JF is on Fnatic? Wtf, when did that happen?
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Great game! Loved watching!
Play again soon.. a rematch is def needed!
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On October 25 2010 13:20 emperorchampion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~ North American teams plz -_- But seriously: TT1, JF, SLush, Kiwikaki, and Drewbie are all Canadian.
Well given their best seems to leave for Korea we have to give our southern cousins someone to cheer for don't we ?
I was joking, eh ! :p
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United States17042 Posts
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On October 25 2010 13:30 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 13:17 GobIin wrote:On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~ ya with maybe dignitas, atn, or rage rage sucks ? they only have 1 good player (Tarson) the rest are pretty not-too-good
Diestar?
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wow i knew TT1 was good but not that good
i'd like to see fnaticMSI vs team liquid some time
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On October 25 2010 13:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Who won?
TTwon.
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On October 25 2010 14:29 GobIin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 13:30 Xeris wrote:On October 25 2010 13:17 GobIin wrote:On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~ ya with maybe dignitas, atn, or rage rage sucks ? they only have 1 good player (Tarson) the rest are pretty not-too-good Diestar?
Diestar isn't good...
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On October 25 2010 11:14 Wolf wrote:
TT1 so scary today; glad I didn't have to fight him
lol why u place me against TT1 in round 1 again? haha :3
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On October 25 2010 14:32 LuckyFool wrote:TTwon.
welly done, welly done
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props to payam for being the sexiest toss out there <3
If you guys are wondering why you never see JF play, its because he hardly ever plays SC2. That being said, he is skilled enough to one day decide that he wants to win GSL, and will play for a week, move to korea and crush everyone who has been playing 60 games a day.
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On October 25 2010 15:13 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
props to payam for being the sexiest toss out there <3
If you guys are wondering why you never see JF play, its because he hardly ever plays SC2. That being said, he is skilled enough to one day decide that he wants to win GSL, and will play for a week, move to korea and crush everyone who has been playing 60 games a day.
osto definitely knows cuz he has a blossoming mancrush on JF.
although, JF played SC2 for 1 month and won WCG Canada by beating KiWiKaKi twice, then won the Newegg Wanfest by beating Qxc twice.
true statement.
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Well JF was my SC2 student, so I like to think I taught him well.
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true, jf is really good 8) he played like 1000 ladder games during his summer vacation, i guess hes busy with school now ; ( too bad, need more canadian power
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On October 25 2010 17:12 drewbie.root wrote:
true, jf is really good 8) he played like 1000 ladder games during his summer vacation, i guess hes busy with school now ; ( too bad, need more canadian power
You guys have you, huk, kiwi, slush, and the list has already been mentioned and goes on and on.
You guys have enough good players per population lol.
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I think the fanatic roster is one of the most balanced and carefully selected compared to the other multigaming clans (only their european division might need some overhaul). Alongside with Mouz it feels like there is a lot of thought behind the composition of the team and this distinguishes both clans from competitors like SK (just a single player with Madfrog who yet has to establish himself as top notch in SC2), MYM (2 good Europeans and a few former greats that still have to make an impact). Other teams mainly consist of 1-2 players that belong to the best like Dignitas or aTn (and arguably MTW) but are somewhat lacking in depth.
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Too bad EG couldn't RELEASE THE GRACKEN.
He could have crushed TT1.
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its pretty obvious the top 3 teams in america. I always wonder how european teams stack up. Its a shame we couldnt see some of fnatic's international players and eg's one
really? You sure?
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On October 25 2010 15:15 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 15:13 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
props to payam for being the sexiest toss out there <3
If you guys are wondering why you never see JF play, its because he hardly ever plays SC2. That being said, he is skilled enough to one day decide that he wants to win GSL, and will play for a week, move to korea and crush everyone who has been playing 60 games a day. osto definitely knows cuz he has a blossoming mancrush on JF. although, JF played SC2 for 1 month and won WCG Canada by beating KiWiKaKi twice, then won the Newegg Wanfest by beating Qxc twice. true statement.
One month where he played 900 games... =) <3 JF
edit: GJJJJJJJJJ PAYAM ALL-KILL <3
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wow payam you baller.... good job dood
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On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~
Interesting choice of words since rSports beat two of them. (EG and fnatic)
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On October 26 2010 01:16 Achilles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~ Interesting choice of words since rSports beat two of them. (EG and fnatic)
winning one clanwar when we had 3 players with kawaiirice only playing zerg for 2-3 days doesn't really mean much I'm sorry to say. not to take anything away from rS but let's not get a big head after one win.
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who is in rs? never heard of them
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On October 26 2010 01:20 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 01:16 Achilles wrote:On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~ Interesting choice of words since rSports beat two of them. (EG and fnatic) winning one clanwar when we had 3 players with kawaiirice only playing zerg for 2-3 days doesn't really mean much I'm sorry to say. not to take anything away from rS but let's not get a big head after one win.
"Not to take anything away from rS but we had 3 players, one playing his offrace and it's only one win"
Right.
All I'm saying is that it's not as obvious who the better teams are nor is it even close to "very" obvious as it was implied. It looks as though the teams do fairly well vs each other on different days.
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Can someone link me to vods/replays of these four games? Thanks
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it is pretty obvious who the best team is and that's EG. As a whole fnatic/root are likely better but if IdrA could actually participate in these events he'd pretty much carry.
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On October 26 2010 01:24 SUGGY wrote:
who is in rs? never heard of them
Laglovah, neans, boo and errrr.... Don't know who else but they are really good. Arguably top3 in NA
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Damn, EG really needs to step it up if they are to be considered a top team in SC2. I know about Idra, but he wont be all-killing for EG since he's in korea so thats irrelevant.
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On October 26 2010 01:36 GenoZStriker wrote:Laglovah, neans, boo and errrr.... Don't know who else but they are really good. Arguably top3 in NA
hmmm i wouldnt consider them top 3 NA. what have they accomplished as individuals? there are teams (root, eg, fnatic) that have actually accomplished feats as a team and individuals. whereais a team with a roster of laglovah, neans, boo and errrrr is not so comparable. i know neans is pretty good , but other than that , to me they are a bunch of unknowns. maybe i have been sheltered from their results but i never see them placing in the big tournaments.
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On October 26 2010 01:34 crms wrote:
it is pretty obvious who the best team is and that's EG. As a whole fnatic/root are likely better but if IdrA could actually participate in these events he'd pretty much carry.
just sayin... if your argument is that EG is the best "team" in NA because they have idra... there's a bit of a hole in the logic.
EG is a great team but let's not get carried away just because they have a player who happens to be very good amongst other great players...
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On October 26 2010 01:34 crms wrote:
it is pretty obvious who the best team is and that's EG. As a whole fnatic/root are likely better but if IdrA could actually participate in these events he'd pretty much carry.
you realize idra came very close to losing to kiwikaki at DC wouldn't it be for one simple thing kiwi didn't do in game 2, pretty darn close vs QXC as well, so it's quite an overstatement to say EG is clearly the best cuz of one player
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On October 25 2010 13:08 Xeris wrote:
Yea...
Root, EG, Fnatic are very obviously top 3 US teams... actually it'd be neat to have top 3 EU teams (probably... mTw, mouz, Liquid) vs top 3 US teams in some kinda showmatch league!~
Isnt liquid more of an international team? E.g. huk, nony
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On October 26 2010 02:53 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 01:34 crms wrote:
it is pretty obvious who the best team is and that's EG. As a whole fnatic/root are likely better but if IdrA could actually participate in these events he'd pretty much carry. you realize idra came very close to losing to kiwikaki at DC wouldn't it be for one simple thing kiwi didn't do in game 2, pretty darn close vs QXC as well, so it's quite an overstatement to say EG is clearly the best cuz of one player
You're correct. The hype makes the "skill discrepancy" look larger than it truly is to those who don't know better.
Edit: That being said, "top X" arguments are never good and it's pointless to really discuss it further. GG TT1, long time no see.
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On October 26 2010 02:53 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 01:34 crms wrote:
it is pretty obvious who the best team is and that's EG. As a whole fnatic/root are likely better but if IdrA could actually participate in these events he'd pretty much carry. you realize idra came very close to losing to kiwikaki at DC wouldn't it be for one simple thing kiwi didn't do in game 2, pretty darn close vs QXC as well, so it's quite an overstatement to say EG is clearly the best cuz of one player
I dunno about this. Sure IdrA was down a game sometimes, but I can't remember a single time boutside of the games that he lost where he wasn't in control of the game.
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On October 26 2010 03:29 Achilles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 02:53 Fayth wrote:On October 26 2010 01:34 crms wrote:
it is pretty obvious who the best team is and that's EG. As a whole fnatic/root are likely better but if IdrA could actually participate in these events he'd pretty much carry. you realize idra came very close to losing to kiwikaki at DC wouldn't it be for one simple thing kiwi didn't do in game 2, pretty darn close vs QXC as well, so it's quite an overstatement to say EG is clearly the best cuz of one player You're correct. The hype makes the "skill discrepancy" look larger than it truly is to those who don't know better. Edit: That being said, "top X" arguments are never good and it's pointless to really discuss it further. GG TT1, long time no see.
Fact of the matter is they DIDN'T beat him. With the largest target on his bakc he DIDN'T lose to qxc or kiwikaki. Idra practices against koreans and even though he might scout out players like a kiwi or huk or people who have placed top 2 in recent events, those guys aim towards idra, and he beat them all.
We all know that the best player doesn't always win every map every game, thats the nature of starcraft 2. Because one player beats Flash doesn't mean they're better than flash, it means they took one game. Same argument can go for a clan war between rS and eg or rS and fnatic. They got the wins on that given day. I'm not sure how many players from rS have placed top 2 in any mid sized to big tournaments. They can do well on ladder, but they aren't the players who people target to beat when they show up to an mlg. And they hvaen't placed top 4 or top 8 in those mlg-esque events.
My opinion is that fnatic and root are the top 2, probably root is a little ahead for now but I don't think they've faced each other enough in recent times, but in terms of tournament placings the overall root placing has been the highest.
After those two, it seems like there are a few teams that can be fit in the 3rd to 5th place teams, but I think for 80% of people, if they had to pick a team to put up against a fnatic or root in a clan war, and their options were rS, vVv, EG, inflow, whatever other teams you want to put up in that argument, they'd pick eg
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ROOT 4-3 EG - TST finals (beta)
ROOT 3-0 EG - TST Semis (beta)
ROOT 4-1 EG - Friendly cw
ROOT 4-3 EG - SGL
ROOT 4-1 Fnatic - Licki's Team Tournament Finals (beta)
ROOT 3-2 vT - Licki's Team Tournament (with huk moo etc, beta)
ROOT 6-0 vT - Friendly cw
ROOT 4-1 InfloW - SGL Pre seaswon
ROOT 4-0 Inflow - SGL
ROOT 4-2 rSGaming - SGL
ROOT 4-1 myR - SGL
I think that sums up our history vs top north american teams 11-0, www.root-gaming.com under "Clanwars" you can find most clanwar's detailed match by match and so on.
We'll be facing Fnatic soon on SGL and tbh if there's any team we're afraid of, its them, and I can't say who's better or worse, we haven't cw'd in a while. but I think ROOT / Fnatic are top 2 and EG a close third IMO.
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On October 25 2010 11:08 backtoback wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 10:58 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
TT1 is under-rated, or at least under-appreciated...very solid play
hope to see him go farther in some big name tournaments did he win the 200$ wolf cup?? who is JF?
![[image loading]](http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/1074/disappointed.jpg)
User was warned for this post
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On October 26 2010 03:43 KingRajesh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 02:53 Fayth wrote:On October 26 2010 01:34 crms wrote:
it is pretty obvious who the best team is and that's EG. As a whole fnatic/root are likely better but if IdrA could actually participate in these events he'd pretty much carry. you realize idra came very close to losing to kiwikaki at DC wouldn't it be for one simple thing kiwi didn't do in game 2, pretty darn close vs QXC as well, so it's quite an overstatement to say EG is clearly the best cuz of one player I dunno about this. Sure IdrA was down a game sometimes, but I can't remember a single time boutside of the games that he lost where he wasn't in control of the game.
well im sorry that you don't remember... just go check replay I guess lol
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will do for future threads
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If there was a huge SC2 team league with huge cash prizes and consisted of EG ROOT and Fnatic, Fnatic would *probably* win. No team has a solid top 4 lineup with a huge 2v2 team to actually say which is the best team. Every team has good players, every team has weaker players. As far as #1 carries go, of ROOT EG and Fnatic, I find Sen to be better than IdrA who is better than KiwiKawi. Kiwi can beat Sen and IdrA sometimes, but imo Sen will win the most, then IdrA, then Kiwi.
If you judge who's the best team by previous cw's ROOT wins, if you judge by #1 player from each team, Fnatic wins, if you judge by most popular crowd favorite, EG wins.
But if you judge by the results of REAL TOP LEVEL (best 4 on each team vs best 4) CLANWARS, then you can't judge cause there hasn't been a 'real' clanwar yet.
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Shinta, except I just listed a lot of "real" clanwars lol =) and we don't have -a- carry, sure KiWi's amazing but if you look not just at past results from clanwars but also placings, of big events: we had 4 in the top 8 of MLG Raileigh, 5 in the top 8 of IEM NY and 3 in the top 8 of MLG DC, ROOT isn't just '1' player
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We've never beat root in a cw (only played once tho), and we've never lost to eg. Also root players on the whole are more accomplished in major events so I'd say that they are the best team in NA for now . Obviously this can change in time though ...
Teams like rS and such are good, however their players have never won any of those prize weekly events nor have attended/placed at any LAN ... And again, winning 1 cw vs a team is hardly enough of a sample size to say you can compete/are on the same level.
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moneys on Fnatic, since EG is pretty much useless without idra
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
SICK READ BRA
You seem smart, can I real ID add you on bnet2 so I can one day help make EG not useless?
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Why the hell can't you say EG is the best team because they have (not really arguable) the best non-korean player, who would quite literally carry EG in all these friendly clan wars? Sports teams in other arenas have been carried by 1 or 2 stars, don't see why starcraft is any different.
If you want to rank purely on accomplishments, Root is far and away #1. I don't really care to do that as EG hasn't played with its full roster really.. ever. When looking at the strength of each team IdrA is clearly the best of the bunch. With IdrA leading and EG's other players supporting I find it hard to believe they wouldn't win the majority of these scrims, i'm not sure how anyone could deny that.
This reminds of an MMA argument that was had 6-7 months ago back when everyone was crying over the LW rankings of BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki. Some people argue only accomplishments matter and Aoki should be #1 as in the past year he'd fought and defeated better fighters. While some argued BJ should still be ranked ahead because in a match up BJ would be a heavy favorite to win. I tend to agree with the BJ ranking. Whocares if you're #1 on paper if everyone thinks you would lose if you fought someone else.
for the tl:dr
i find it hard to believe with EG's full roster (IdrA) EG would lose the majority of clanwars against any NA team ie. 100 scrims vs root, 100 scrims vs fnatic, eg loses more than 50 vs each team. Therefore I believe EG Is the best team.
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On October 26 2010 05:25 Shinta) wrote:
If there was a huge SC2 team league with huge cash prizes and consisted of EG ROOT and Fnatic, Fnatic would *probably* win. No team has a solid top 4 lineup with a huge 2v2 team to actually say which is the best team. Every team has good players, every team has weaker players. As far as #1 carries go, of ROOT EG and Fnatic, I find Sen to be better than IdrA who is better than KiwiKawi. Kiwi can beat Sen and IdrA sometimes, but imo Sen will win the most, then IdrA, then Kiwi.
If you judge who's the best team by previous cw's ROOT wins, if you judge by #1 player from each team, Fnatic wins, if you judge by most popular crowd favorite, EG wins.
But if you judge by the results of REAL TOP LEVEL (best 4 on each team vs best 4) CLANWARS, then you can't judge cause there hasn't been a 'real' clanwar yet.
If 2v2's were involved I'd actually think EG would stand an even better chance. Strifecro and Axslav played 2v2 at the highest level in WC3 and are at the top of SC2's 2v2 without much debate. Not to say that EG would win out of those three teams but I would actually think fnatic would be just middle of the road since 2v2's dont really suit anybody but strife/ax.
On October 26 2010 06:59 crms wrote:
Why the hell can't you say EG is the best team because they have (not really arguable) the best non-korean player, who would quite literally carry EG in all these friendly clan wars? Sports teams in other arenas have been carried by 1 or 2 stars, don't see why starcraft is any different.
If you want to rank purely on accomplishments, Root is far and away #1. I don't really care to do that as EG hasn't played with its full roster really.. ever. When looking at the strength of each team IdrA is clearly the best of the bunch. With IdrA leading and EG's other players supporting I find it hard to believe they wouldn't win the majority of these scrims, i'm not sure how anyone could deny that.
This reminds of an MMA argument that was had 6-7 months ago back when everyone was crying over the LW rankings of BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki. Some people argue only accomplishments matter and Aoki should be #1 as in the past year he'd fought and defeated better fighters. While some argued BJ should still be ranked ahead because in a match up BJ would be a heavy favorite to win. I tend to agree with the BJ ranking. Whocares if you're #1 on paper if everyone thinks you would lose if you fought someone else.
for the tl:dr
i find it hard to believe with EG's full roster (IdrA) EG would lose the majority of clanwars against any NA team ie. 100 scrims vs root, 100 scrims vs fnatic, eg loses more than 50 vs each team. Therefore I believe EG Is the best team.
The argument that if they played 100 clan wars wh owould be on top is also a unique one, especially when you're saying EG is without idra, because the same argument can be made for fnatic that they don't have Sen in theirs.
If Sen and Idra played on their respective teams clan wars I think it would come down to format of the clan war. If its winners league style then probably EG and fnatic would have gotten a big boost to catch up if not maybe pass Root. But if its 4 1v1's and a 2v2' then I would say EG has a big big boost with Idra and the top 2v2 team. If its straight 5 1v1's then you would imagine root, with the depth that they have in all their individual accomplishments in EVERY major event, would have the advantage.
No other team, rS, vvv, inflow, etc. can really say they have those sort of trump cards in a series of clan wars. All they have is the lack of name recognition so playstyles aren't always known before hand from all the players save for one or two that have recognizable names.
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Excellent points ZSLasher, format would be huge. In a 5 players all have to 1v1, EG would clearly not be the best as IdrA would likely win his match up, but as we've seen before root/fnatic's core members should win the majority of the other match ups. In a scenario where winner stays (like this clanwar that just happened), I see IdrA being able to carry enough to win a majority of clan wars vs either team.
Another great point is It's not fair for me to include IdrA but not Sen. I actually forgot Sen is a member of team fnatic. To include IdrA i'd have to include Sen and in that scenario it's really too difficult for me to judge who would win, although I'd have to give an edge to Fnatic. I feel with Sen in either format, 5 1v1's or winner stays, fnatic would have the edge with their superstar plus more solid core.
Really good post ZSlasher, this is what I enjoy, people bringing up more information to base opinions. I will change my mind about damn near anything if enough empirical data or sound reasoning is available to support the notion, well played.
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Are there replays to this CW?
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fenix should have played
anyone knows the score?
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CatZ, I know ROOT isn't a 1 man team and that you win wars off your 4 man lu being better overall than your opponent's. I never said that ROOT, or that any team for that matter, was a 1 man team.
Can you link me to some clanwars where ROOT beat Sen Lucifron Fenix and 'insert 4th player here'? I could have been mistaken so if you can show me those cw's I'd gladly support ROOT as being #1.
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While I agree that that Root is probably the strongest team overall, We havent really seen the 4 best players in root vs the 4 best players in fnatic. That said, QXC, Kiwi, Slush, Drewbies vs Fenix, Sen, Gretorp, Lucifron I think would be a toss up. All 8 are great players. (Ive havent really seen lucifron play much, but ive heard hes very good). Both teams are great! No need for a pissing contest =D
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On October 26 2010 07:54 SCC-Faust wrote:
Are there replays to this CW?
ya i think they r on the sgl league website sgleague.co.nr
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On October 26 2010 08:33 Shinta) wrote:
CatZ, I know ROOT isn't a 1 man team and that you win wars off your 4 man lu being better overall than your opponent's. I never said that ROOT, or that any team for that matter, was a 1 man team.
Can you link me to some clanwars where ROOT beat Sen Lucifron Fenix and 'insert 4th player here'? I could have been mistaken so if you can show me those cw's I'd gladly support ROOT as being #1.
it hasn't happened, and im not saying we would win or lose, I mean I like my chances much like im sure Fnatic would like theirs... Drewbie QXC KiWiKaKi SLush CauthonLuck SUGGY Sheth and Myself I think if we go deep into the rosters should be the best team unarguably. ofc in a clanwar with only 4 1v1's or 'korean style' anything can happen... but it hasn't happened yet.... we haven't lost a single clanwar to any of the top teams in NA yet, that's all im saying. If we were to lose one soon, it would probably be to Fnatic, they have an amazing roster.
Either way, Sen and Lucifron arent really NA server players, so if we are to bring them into the discussion perhaps we should discuss where Team Liquid, Mouz, mTw, oGs and Prime stand in the mix too, no?
anyways, pointless discussion of what if's, and if you think fnatic or EG is a better team than ROOT, I won't dispute nor argue with that because its pointless, its all subjective and they're both great teams. cyu!
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
tt1 aw yeahhhhh awesome!!!!!!
now time to win a tourney plz
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On October 26 2010 08:58 AzaleasFighter wrote:ya i think they r on the sgl league website sgleague.co.nr
can't find the replays on that page. can someone link to them directly? would love to see tt1's play :s
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On October 26 2010 06:59 crms wrote:
Why the hell can't you say EG is the best team because they have (not really arguable) the best non-korean player, who would quite literally carry EG in all these friendly clan wars? Sports teams in other arenas have been carried by 1 or 2 stars, don't see why starcraft is any different.
If you want to rank purely on accomplishments, Root is far and away #1. I don't really care to do that as EG hasn't played with its full roster really.. ever. When looking at the strength of each team IdrA is clearly the best of the bunch. With IdrA leading and EG's other players supporting I find it hard to believe they wouldn't win the majority of these scrims, i'm not sure how anyone could deny that.
This reminds of an MMA argument that was had 6-7 months ago back when everyone was crying over the LW rankings of BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki. Some people argue only accomplishments matter and Aoki should be #1 as in the past year he'd fought and defeated better fighters. While some argued BJ should still be ranked ahead because in a match up BJ would be a heavy favorite to win. I tend to agree with the BJ ranking. Whocares if you're #1 on paper if everyone thinks you would lose if you fought someone else.
for the tl:dr
i find it hard to believe with EG's full roster (IdrA) EG would lose the majority of clanwars against any NA team ie. 100 scrims vs root, 100 scrims vs fnatic, eg loses more than 50 vs each team. Therefore I believe EG Is the best team.
i'm confused, are you saying that idra would carry EG in a 4 1v1 and 1 2v2 CW or in a korean style cw?
idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal.
also idra has no clue how to 2v2 so maybe in a standard cw he would be a 75% chance to win 1 match....... how does this make EG the best team?
also there is no way in hell that idra will ever all kill fenix/lucifron/sen/tt1 whoever else fnatic throws at him. he is good but you are seriously over rating him.
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in regards to the whole "who's better" ordeal... i don't think there is any one player that is SO much better than everyone else in the American scene, that there can be considered the "best" player or "best" team. There's so many fluctuations from game to game, I still believe HuK is best American player... even though he didn't win MLG DC doesn't mean that he's an inferior player to IdrA or KiWiKaKi whom placed above him... The game is too new imo to already have set "this team is gonna win everything" or "this player is literally unbeatable"
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On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 06:59 crms wrote:
Why the hell can't you say EG is the best team because they have (not really arguable) the best non-korean player, who would quite literally carry EG in all these friendly clan wars? Sports teams in other arenas have been carried by 1 or 2 stars, don't see why starcraft is any different.
If you want to rank purely on accomplishments, Root is far and away #1. I don't really care to do that as EG hasn't played with its full roster really.. ever. When looking at the strength of each team IdrA is clearly the best of the bunch. With IdrA leading and EG's other players supporting I find it hard to believe they wouldn't win the majority of these scrims, i'm not sure how anyone could deny that.
This reminds of an MMA argument that was had 6-7 months ago back when everyone was crying over the LW rankings of BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki. Some people argue only accomplishments matter and Aoki should be #1 as in the past year he'd fought and defeated better fighters. While some argued BJ should still be ranked ahead because in a match up BJ would be a heavy favorite to win. I tend to agree with the BJ ranking. Whocares if you're #1 on paper if everyone thinks you would lose if you fought someone else.
for the tl:dr
i find it hard to believe with EG's full roster (IdrA) EG would lose the majority of clanwars against any NA team ie. 100 scrims vs root, 100 scrims vs fnatic, eg loses more than 50 vs each team. Therefore I believe EG Is the best team. i'm confused, are you saying that idra would carry EG in a 4 1v1 and 1 2v2 CW or in a korean style cw? idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal. also idra has no clue how to 2v2 so maybe in a standard cw he would be a 75% chance to win 1 match....... how does this make EG the best team? also there is no way in hell that idra will ever all kill fenix/lucifron/sen/tt1 whoever else fnatic throws at him. he is good but you are seriously over rating him.
I have to agree. I wouldn't even really call it a team if they had to rely on Idra in winners league to win clan wars against top clans such as root/fnatic. Would be like Jaedong and oz .
but I can't wait to watch the root vs fnatic hopefully Sen plays :D
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On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 06:59 crms wrote:
Why the hell can't you say EG is the best team because they have (not really arguable) the best non-korean player, who would quite literally carry EG in all these friendly clan wars? Sports teams in other arenas have been carried by 1 or 2 stars, don't see why starcraft is any different.
If you want to rank purely on accomplishments, Root is far and away #1. I don't really care to do that as EG hasn't played with its full roster really.. ever. When looking at the strength of each team IdrA is clearly the best of the bunch. With IdrA leading and EG's other players supporting I find it hard to believe they wouldn't win the majority of these scrims, i'm not sure how anyone could deny that.
This reminds of an MMA argument that was had 6-7 months ago back when everyone was crying over the LW rankings of BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki. Some people argue only accomplishments matter and Aoki should be #1 as in the past year he'd fought and defeated better fighters. While some argued BJ should still be ranked ahead because in a match up BJ would be a heavy favorite to win. I tend to agree with the BJ ranking. Whocares if you're #1 on paper if everyone thinks you would lose if you fought someone else.
for the tl:dr
i find it hard to believe with EG's full roster (IdrA) EG would lose the majority of clanwars against any NA team ie. 100 scrims vs root, 100 scrims vs fnatic, eg loses more than 50 vs each team. Therefore I believe EG Is the best team. i'm confused, are you saying that idra would carry EG in a 4 1v1 and 1 2v2 CW or in a korean style cw? idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal. also idra has no clue how to 2v2 so maybe in a standard cw he would be a 75% chance to win 1 match....... how does this make EG the best team? also there is no way in hell that idra will ever all kill fenix/lucifron/sen/tt1 whoever else fnatic throws at him. he is good but you are seriously over rating him.
everything you addressed I've already commented on, I suggest you read the post where I responded to ZSlaSHeR.
With the addition of Sen/Fenix Fnatic is a clear favorite in any format vs EG (including IdrA) or Root.
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On October 26 2010 10:11 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:On October 26 2010 06:59 crms wrote:
Why the hell can't you say EG is the best team because they have (not really arguable) the best non-korean player, who would quite literally carry EG in all these friendly clan wars? Sports teams in other arenas have been carried by 1 or 2 stars, don't see why starcraft is any different.
If you want to rank purely on accomplishments, Root is far and away #1. I don't really care to do that as EG hasn't played with its full roster really.. ever. When looking at the strength of each team IdrA is clearly the best of the bunch. With IdrA leading and EG's other players supporting I find it hard to believe they wouldn't win the majority of these scrims, i'm not sure how anyone could deny that.
This reminds of an MMA argument that was had 6-7 months ago back when everyone was crying over the LW rankings of BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki. Some people argue only accomplishments matter and Aoki should be #1 as in the past year he'd fought and defeated better fighters. While some argued BJ should still be ranked ahead because in a match up BJ would be a heavy favorite to win. I tend to agree with the BJ ranking. Whocares if you're #1 on paper if everyone thinks you would lose if you fought someone else.
for the tl:dr
i find it hard to believe with EG's full roster (IdrA) EG would lose the majority of clanwars against any NA team ie. 100 scrims vs root, 100 scrims vs fnatic, eg loses more than 50 vs each team. Therefore I believe EG Is the best team. i'm confused, are you saying that idra would carry EG in a 4 1v1 and 1 2v2 CW or in a korean style cw? idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal. also idra has no clue how to 2v2 so maybe in a standard cw he would be a 75% chance to win 1 match....... how does this make EG the best team? also there is no way in hell that idra will ever all kill fenix/lucifron/sen/tt1 whoever else fnatic throws at him. he is good but you are seriously over rating him. everything you addressed I've already commented on, I suggest you read the post where I responded to ZSlaSHeR. With the addition of Sen/Fenix Fnatic is a clear favorite in any format vs EG (including IdrA) or Root.
where does sen fit into this whole discussion of top NA teams? I can see fenix being considered maybe because he is from south america but... he plays on the NA server. Sen should not be in the discussion
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CatZ, I understand your position and viewpoints. I only wanted to say my opinion as well. I was careful not to include NA EU KR or any server restrictions in my statement, but merely provide the three teams in discussion. I was just being relevant and expressive of my personal beliefs on what I'd like to see happen before anyone tries to say any one team is granted the title of #1 team. I think that Fnatic would probably win, but that's an opinion, not necessarily who I'm rooting for. I'm not trying to fight or dispute anything^^
I wish all teams the best in future big competitions to come, and I can't wait to see what ends up happening with them.
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On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:
idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal.
I bet you he could
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On October 26 2010 10:22 SUGGY wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 10:11 crms wrote:On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:On October 26 2010 06:59 crms wrote:
Why the hell can't you say EG is the best team because they have (not really arguable) the best non-korean player, who would quite literally carry EG in all these friendly clan wars? Sports teams in other arenas have been carried by 1 or 2 stars, don't see why starcraft is any different.
If you want to rank purely on accomplishments, Root is far and away #1. I don't really care to do that as EG hasn't played with its full roster really.. ever. When looking at the strength of each team IdrA is clearly the best of the bunch. With IdrA leading and EG's other players supporting I find it hard to believe they wouldn't win the majority of these scrims, i'm not sure how anyone could deny that.
This reminds of an MMA argument that was had 6-7 months ago back when everyone was crying over the LW rankings of BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki. Some people argue only accomplishments matter and Aoki should be #1 as in the past year he'd fought and defeated better fighters. While some argued BJ should still be ranked ahead because in a match up BJ would be a heavy favorite to win. I tend to agree with the BJ ranking. Whocares if you're #1 on paper if everyone thinks you would lose if you fought someone else.
for the tl:dr
i find it hard to believe with EG's full roster (IdrA) EG would lose the majority of clanwars against any NA team ie. 100 scrims vs root, 100 scrims vs fnatic, eg loses more than 50 vs each team. Therefore I believe EG Is the best team. i'm confused, are you saying that idra would carry EG in a 4 1v1 and 1 2v2 CW or in a korean style cw? idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal. also idra has no clue how to 2v2 so maybe in a standard cw he would be a 75% chance to win 1 match....... how does this make EG the best team? also there is no way in hell that idra will ever all kill fenix/lucifron/sen/tt1 whoever else fnatic throws at him. he is good but you are seriously over rating him. everything you addressed I've already commented on, I suggest you read the post where I responded to ZSlaSHeR. With the addition of Sen/Fenix Fnatic is a clear favorite in any format vs EG (including IdrA) or Root. where does sen fit into this whole discussion of top NA teams? I can see fenix being considered maybe because he is from south america but... he plays on the NA server. Sen should not be in the discussion
interesting point I guess we should define some rules.
Can fnatic even be considered a NA team if their HQ is in Europe (iirc from cs 1.6 days.) Should NA teams have to be based in NA, or is it simply rostered player locations? Can IdrA be considered part of EG's NA team when he lives in Korea and has for a few years now? Can Sen be considered part of Fnatic NA when he lives/plays in asia? Should team liquid be included in this since they have NA players in Huk and tyler?
Does it matter where you're living location is if youre actively competing in major NA events, MLG, IEM, Blizzcon etc?
To me I'd have to look at the entire teams roster. To my knowledge Fnatic doesnt have fnatic.NA, fnatic.Asia, fnatic.EU so I tend to look at the team as a whole, so I would include Sen, Fenix and lucifron etc. if I'm going to try and rank teams as a whole.
The tricky thing with rankings is everyone has to be using the same critieria or you're really arguing fruitlessly. This happens ad naseum on MMA forums.
And for the record I have nothing against root, they actually are home to some of my favorite zerg heros. <3. I'm just a nerd who loves to debate/reason/argue about superfluous things like subjective rankings lols, hence all the MMA references. SC and MMA are the only 'sports' I follow and I discuss them to a fault.
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On October 25 2010 18:59 KingRajesh wrote:
Too bad EG couldn't RELEASE THE GRACKEN.
He could have crushed TT1.
Ahahaha well said! Also nice informative post EmperorChampion . CaNaDa1 FiGhTiNg~!@
On October 26 2010 02:02 fush wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 01:34 crms wrote:
it is pretty obvious who the best team is and that's EG. As a whole fnatic/root are likely better but if IdrA could actually participate in these events he'd pretty much carry. just sayin... if your argument is that EG is the best "team" in NA because they have idra... there's a bit of a hole in the logic. EG is a great team but let's not get carried away just because they have a player who happens to be very good amongst other great players...
We're talking a team full of people equipped in 2-2 gear, or Shako MF sorcs. IdrA resembles 10-10 + fully legendary zealer :D
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lol Idra would easily all kill root clan
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On October 26 2010 10:36 GobIin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:
idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal. I bet you he could
I also wouldn't be surprised if Idra in the current patch could all-kill Root. Catz in ZvZ or Qxc might be threatening. I simply haven't seen enough of Idras ZvZ to judge. But certainly it seems possible he could all-kill them.
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On October 26 2010 10:37 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 10:22 SUGGY wrote:On October 26 2010 10:11 crms wrote:On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:On October 26 2010 06:59 crms wrote:
Why the hell can't you say EG is the best team because they have (not really arguable) the best non-korean player, who would quite literally carry EG in all these friendly clan wars? Sports teams in other arenas have been carried by 1 or 2 stars, don't see why starcraft is any different.
If you want to rank purely on accomplishments, Root is far and away #1. I don't really care to do that as EG hasn't played with its full roster really.. ever. When looking at the strength of each team IdrA is clearly the best of the bunch. With IdrA leading and EG's other players supporting I find it hard to believe they wouldn't win the majority of these scrims, i'm not sure how anyone could deny that.
This reminds of an MMA argument that was had 6-7 months ago back when everyone was crying over the LW rankings of BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki. Some people argue only accomplishments matter and Aoki should be #1 as in the past year he'd fought and defeated better fighters. While some argued BJ should still be ranked ahead because in a match up BJ would be a heavy favorite to win. I tend to agree with the BJ ranking. Whocares if you're #1 on paper if everyone thinks you would lose if you fought someone else.
for the tl:dr
i find it hard to believe with EG's full roster (IdrA) EG would lose the majority of clanwars against any NA team ie. 100 scrims vs root, 100 scrims vs fnatic, eg loses more than 50 vs each team. Therefore I believe EG Is the best team. i'm confused, are you saying that idra would carry EG in a 4 1v1 and 1 2v2 CW or in a korean style cw? idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal. also idra has no clue how to 2v2 so maybe in a standard cw he would be a 75% chance to win 1 match....... how does this make EG the best team? also there is no way in hell that idra will ever all kill fenix/lucifron/sen/tt1 whoever else fnatic throws at him. he is good but you are seriously over rating him. everything you addressed I've already commented on, I suggest you read the post where I responded to ZSlaSHeR. With the addition of Sen/Fenix Fnatic is a clear favorite in any format vs EG (including IdrA) or Root. where does sen fit into this whole discussion of top NA teams? I can see fenix being considered maybe because he is from south america but... he plays on the NA server. Sen should not be in the discussion interesting point I guess we should define some rules. Can fnatic even be considered a NA team if their HQ is in Europe (iirc from cs 1.6 days.) Should NA teams have to be based in NA, or is it simply rostered player locations? Can IdrA be considered part of EG's NA team when he lives in Korea and has for a few years now? Can Sen be considered part of Fnatic NA when he lives/plays in asia? Should team liquid be included in this since they have NA players in Huk and tyler? Does it matter where your living location is if youre actively competing in major NA events, MLG, IEM, Blizzcon etc? To me I'd have to look at the entire teams roster. To my knowledge Fnatic doesnt have fnatic.NA, fnatic.Asia, fnatic.EU so I tend to look at the team as a whole, so I would include Sen, Fenix and lucifron etc. if I'm going to try and rank teams as a whole. The tricky thing with rankings is everyone has to be using the same critieria or you're really arguing fruitlessly. This happens ad naseum on MMA forums. And for the record I have nothing against root, they actually are home to some of my favorite zerg heros. <3. I'm just a nerd who loves to debate/reason/argue about superfluous things like subjective rankings lols, hence all the MMA references. SC and MMA are the only 'sports' I follow and I discuss them to a fault.
lol I like the way you discuss your points.
I must say though, it's not only arguable whether IdrA is or is not the best non-Korean sc2 player, but it's also VERY unlikely. Imo he most definately is not the best non-Korean player in the world. He perhaps may be in the top 5 though. That's arguable ^_^
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On October 26 2010 10:41 Nuri wrote:
lol Idra would easily all kill root clan
Well, they're saying that root members are able to take games from Idra (as seen during MLG DC, even though they eventually lost in the bo3). If Idra is the only one carrying EG (hypothetically), then root wins as soon as Idra loses to a unique strat from someone like Kiwikaki. Once that happens, then it all comes down to the posturing of the lineups. If Idra goes 3-0 before losing, then whoever beats Idra will have to be prepared for a lot of different strats and root's chances are low. If he loses before 3-0, then root has a much higher chance.
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On October 26 2010 10:36 GobIin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:
idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal. I bet you he could
this thread needs more IdrA, pity he's banned lol xD
he could all-kill in BO3s, but not conceding a single game, not sure about that
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On October 26 2010 11:09 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 10:36 GobIin wrote:On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:
idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal. I bet you he could this thread needs more IdrA, pity he's banned lol xD he could all-kill in BO3s, but not conceding a single game, not sure about that
agreed
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This is sc2. An advantage in better mechanics is no where near the size it was in sc:bw. People who are saying idrA can consistently all kill fnatic are nuts. Give him 5 chances to do it and he'll do it once.
Edit: the nerd in me.
Consider the idea that idrA has a 75% chance to win against each player. Against a lineup of 4 players, the likelihood of idrA all-killing is still less than 1/3.
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On October 25 2010 11:08 backtoback wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 10:58 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
TT1 is under-rated, or at least under-appreciated...very solid play
hope to see him go farther in some big name tournaments did he win the 200$ wolf cup?? who is JF?
hes just the person who won TSL 1 and came 4th? TSL2 and was top 20?? In ladder before school started :O
he's also known as IefNaij
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On October 26 2010 11:14 GobIin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 11:09 Subversion wrote:On October 26 2010 10:36 GobIin wrote:On October 26 2010 09:57 drewbie.root wrote:
idra is good but he is not invincible and theres no way in hell he can allkill root, sorry pal. I bet you he could this thread needs more IdrA, pity he's banned lol xD he could all-kill in BO3s, but not conceding a single game, not sure about that agreed
he COULD, but he also couldn't. Its such a stupid argument lol, if for some reason 50 independent CW's were played, I'm sure at least one of them he'd all kill root or fnatic, but at the same time he's nto gonna do it 50 times.
edit: read my post on end of page 6 or something i guess. Sorta sums up how I feel the whole NA team situation works out.
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he's also not gonna play CW's so it's kinda a moot point, idra is just there because he's getting paid it's not as if he's a team spirit kinda guy.
unless there's some proleague type thing with 10k+ in prize, you likely won;t ever see idra playing in a cw.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
if they ever fix the latency he will be in every cw that has meaning... but there is no point bringing him in to embarrass himself given the latency from KOR to NA.
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On October 26 2010 13:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
if they ever fix the latency he will be in every cw that has meaning... but there is no point bringing him in to embarrass himself given the latency from KOR to NA.
yea that too, although I think he might be overstating the latency issue, or maybe its different with Taiwan, because Sen plays on the US server and seems alright for him, dunno!
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They always say Korea is the fastest most wired country in the world, so you'd think that the connection might be good enough to do a CW once in a while, and with his macro ability he'd still be able to contribute. Nevertheless he's been one to make comments about latency on a regular basis so I doubt he'd force himself to get used to that lol.
It would be awesome to see Sen playing in NA tournaments and clan matches, I feel like for such a top worldwide zerg in not just SC2 but also in BW that hopefully he could get more exposure since outside of blizzcon I don't think I've heard much from his play since release, but he is an absolutely beast player.
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sen will play in the SGL at some point, probably in the playoffs
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I think not having IdrA available for clan war play cripples team EG a lot.
Like the Bulls without Michael Jordan.
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We've never beat root in a cw (only played once tho), and we've never lost to eg. Also root players on the whole are more accomplished in major events so I'd say that they are the best team in NA for now . Obviously this can change in time though ...
Teams like rS and such are good, however their players have never won any of those prize weekly events nor have attended/placed at any LAN ... And again, winning 1 cw vs a team is hardly enough of a sample size to say you can compete/are on the same level.
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On October 26 2010 14:34 Xeris wrote:sen will play in the SGL at some point, probably in the playoffs
I was hoping you just misspelled GSL T_T
I agree with Zlasher that it's a shame we only get to see so little of Sen considering how great of a player he is.
I hope that's indeed gonna change.
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Teams like rS and such are good, however their players have never won any of those prize weekly events nor have attended/placed at any LAN ... And again, winning 1 cw vs a team is hardly enough of a sample size to say you can compete/are on the same level.
For SC2 we have had multiple wins on LAN (LagLovah, nEAnS, Sinatra), but unfortunatly not taken part in MLG yet. We should have members at Dallas!
Far as LAN in general some of our members are loaded with international LAN events such as ESWC, CPL, WCG and more (Suboshi, BoO, Ir0nClad and more)
End of the day, we will be ok =X
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On October 27 2010 11:45 [rS]Killa wrote:Show nested quote +Teams like rS and such are good, however their players have never won any of those prize weekly events nor have attended/placed at any LAN ... And again, winning 1 cw vs a team is hardly enough of a sample size to say you can compete/are on the same level. For SC2 we have had multiple wins on LAN (LagLovah, nEAnS, Sinatra), but unfortunatly not taken part in MLG yet. We should have members at Dallas! Far as LAN in general some of our members are loaded with international LAN events such as ESWC, CPL, WCG and more (Suboshi, BoO, Ir0nClad and more) End of the day, we will be ok =X
I think when people say LAN's they're more talking like, big ones that people travel cross country for, such as an IEM, MLG, or even greenforest to an extent. Those ones that rS took part in were local lans (like the vancouver charity/lan that neans won i believe).
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On October 26 2010 14:27 ZlaSHeR wrote:
They always say Korea is the fastest most wired country in the world, so you'd think that the connection might be good enough to do a CW once in a while, and with his macro ability he'd still be able to contribute. Nevertheless he's been one to make comments about latency on a regular basis so I doubt he'd force himself to get used to that lol.
It would be awesome to see Sen playing in NA tournaments and clan matches, I feel like for such a top worldwide zerg in not just SC2 but also in BW that hopefully he could get more exposure since outside of blizzcon I don't think I've heard much from his play since release, but he is an absolutely beast player.
Internally, Korea's internet is fine, but Korea's like to NA is really weak so that's what causes the problems (or so i've read a few times on these forums).
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EPT
