EPT[D]The GSL - too top heavy in the prize payout? - Page 6
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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kzn
United States1218 Posts
On October 07 2010 01:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: this is retarded too, you must not have noticed the hundreds of licensed BW progamers who have never had a TV appearance. the talent pool will not shrink and anyone who takes themselves and their game seriously will be practicing their heart out for that $85,000 This isn't an argument. You have no way of knowing what the talent pool would have been like if money was distributed more evenly in BW, just like we have no way of knowing what it would be like in SC2 if the prize money was distributed more evenly. Top-heavy prize ratios are good at this stage in SC2's life, because, as everyone has mentioned, you can advertise a massive first place prize and attract a lot of spectator attention. But, if you look at pretty much every other well developed sport of any kind, you can make a living on it if you're one of the best 64 players in the world (which, at this point, is pretty much what GSL ro64 represents, barring issues like travel costs and such that overweight korean appearances there). There is of course another point which is that if SC2 goes towards a televised team league like BW did, a lot more money will be coming in from sponsors and whatnot, which will likely be distributed more evenly and may fix the issue. If that doesn't happen, however, and the majority of income for players comes from prize winnings, massively top-heavy prize pools like GSL's now will retard the development of the game, not accelerate it. | ||
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ragingfungus
United States271 Posts
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Grond
599 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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eggs
1011 Posts
On October 12 2010 08:42 floor exercise wrote: I think it's too top heavy for sure. Especially if they are really having like 12 a year or whatever it is. The likelihood of being a repeat winner is so much lower than continually placing in say in the top 8. It would make it the lifestyle much more sustainable. doesn't that counter your own argument? you're saying its more likely that there will be many different people winning each season rather than a few people repeating wins. so then in the long run the top heavy prize pool does in fact get distributed among the top 8 players. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
If the first place prize dropped 20k, it would still be a ton of money, nobody plays for 80k and not for 60k. But if the Rd. of 64 prizes doubled or tripled, then that would make participation significantly more worthwhile, and would provide a stepping stone to players who could support themselves at the low levels, but for whom the higher levels would still be something to aspire towards. On October 12 2010 08:34 ragingfungus wrote: I think we would see alot more foreigners with a more spread out prize pool. This is also true. If you could finance your trip to Korea just by getting in the Rd. of 64, then you wouldn't have to worry so much about the risk you'd be taking with that trip. | ||
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eggs
1011 Posts
On October 12 2010 08:45 mango_destroyer wrote: Could someone give a number of how spread out the money should be? Even if it was more spread out it is not enough to consider as a potential job unless you were semi-finalist and greater. "should be?"? it's a matter of opinion. for comparison's sake here's an example of MLG Dallas' SC2 payout (128 players): + Show Spoiler + 1st Place: $6,250 2nd Place: $3,750 3rd Place: $2,500 4th Place: $1,750 5th Place: $1,250 6th Place: $875 7th Place: $625 8th Place: $500 i personally prefer big venue tournaments where first place matters a lot. a spread out prize pool might make sense for things like Poker tournaments where there is a lot of randomness and "luck" involved, but i think it's fair to have a top heavy payout for starcraft. | ||
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toadstool
Australia421 Posts
Having such low pay for top 64 means that people cannot rely on it for income, and so it will never be anything more than an amateur league rather than true professional e-sports. I mean, look at Tester. He got knocked out even though he is considered by many to be the best Protoss in the world. There are no certainties. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45704 Posts
On October 12 2010 08:45 mango_destroyer wrote: Could someone give a number of how spread out the money should be? Even if it was more spread out it is not enough to consider as a potential job unless you were semi-finalist and greater. Well, do keep in mind that players can get salaries or get paid through endorsements as well, so it's not necessarily the case that the *only* money that a SC player receives will be through the tournaments they win. That being said, in a ridiculously huge tournament (like the GSL), I would like it to be something like: 1st place: 40% of total prize pool 2nd: 20% 3rd: 10% 4th: 8% 5th: 6% 6th: 6% 7th: 5% 8th: 5% (The bottom 4 could be staggered more; I didn't really put too much thought into those in particular.) I wanted to include prize money throughout the top 8, as an incentive to those who recognize that they probably won't *win it all*, but feel that they could get Top 8. I feel this would motivate many more players to play. (On a sidenote, my last name is Mango so I *totally* take offense to your name!) | ||
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eggs
1011 Posts
On October 12 2010 09:00 toadstool wrote: Unless you have sponsors putting out full income for teams, a lot of people considering a career in sc2 would be turned away. Having such low pay for top 64 means that people cannot rely on it for income, and so it will never be anything more than an amateur league rather than true professional e-sports. I mean, look at Tester. He got knocked out even though he is considered by many to be the best Protoss in the world. There are no certainties. exactly. these are Open tournaments. there aren't even seeds yet. it's a bit premature to be asking to give better payouts and salaries to people who made the round of 32 when a lot of top players haven't even played yet. | ||
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eggs
1011 Posts
On October 12 2010 09:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:That being said, in a ridiculously huge tournament (like the GSL), I would like it to be something like: 1st place: 40% of total prize pool 2nd: 20% 3rd: 10% 4th: 8% 5th: 6% 6th: 6% 7th: 5% 8th: 5% (The bottom 4 could be staggered more; I didn't really put too much thought into those in particular.) I wanted to include prize money throughout the top 8, as an incentive to those who recognize that they probably won't *win it all*, but feel that they could get Top 8. I feel this would motivate many more players to play. GSL is single elimination. there is no 3rd place match, let alone matches to differentiate 5-8. and your layout only pays out to the top 8 in a "ridiculously huge tournament"? | ||
snowdrift
France2061 Posts
It should be noted that BW tournaments had prizes for the first and second places only -- 40 million and 20 million respectively, if I'm not mistaken. | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On October 12 2010 08:50 eggs wrote: doesn't that counter your own argument? you're saying its more likely that there will be many different people winning each season rather than a few people repeating wins. so then in the long run the top heavy prize pool does in fact get distributed among the top 8 players. It kind of does just because of the way I poorly worded it, but if the prize pool was less top heavy it would ultimately benefit everyone barring one incredible sc2 bonjwa who is still going to do really well for himself. There's just more chances for the consistently good players to make money to support themselves and for the random players who have a good run and finish high in a given season without feeling like they have to make it to the finals to justify their lifestyle | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
i dont think they should be trying to live off GSL winnings... | ||
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NuKedUFirst
Canada3139 Posts
On October 12 2010 08:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I would just like to discredit the theory that a big first place would motivate players. It doesn't (unless they're in the final obvious). If the same prizepool is more spread out it would attract many, many more motivated players who will consider SC to be a potential job. I agree with this. They should up the R064, R032 and potentially the R016 prizes aswell as the the increase the prize for second. When I see the prizes for R064 and R032 as a foreigner I think "oh ok wow I pay X^5 to fly to Korea, etc and I lose in the R032 and only get X.. It is much less appealing $$ wise. | ||
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eggs
1011 Posts
On October 12 2010 09:56 NuKedUFirst wrote: I agree with this. They should up the R064, R032 and potentially the R016 prizes aswell as the the increase the prize for second. When I see the prizes for R064 and R032 as a foreigner I think "oh ok wow I pay X^5 to fly to Korea, etc and I lose in the R032 and only get X.. It is much less appealing $$ wise. but on the other hand the RO64 and RO32 to some extent matches in GSL1 were awful to watch. i doubt any of the games played in the first round attracted any new subscribers for season tickets. why should they pay out more to players who earn them less? and for a "foreigner" who doesn't think they'll advance past the RO32, something like MLG might be more appealing but anything outside of top 4 in that tournament barely covers travel expenses. this isn't a gambling tournament. it's not like poker where the prize pool is covered by the entrants who are only there to try to win money. it's a unique opportunity to showcase skill and play against the best in the world. do you think Flash and Jaedong cared about the prize pool of WCG? | ||
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