The Intel Extreme Masters American Championship Group Stages will begin today, September 4th! The groups are as follows:
Group A Bubba TTOne Fenix SUGGY
Group B HuK KiWiKaKi LastShadow (ajtls) Machine
Group C Silver qxc ThisIsJimmy Murder
Group D Drewbie Painuser Cauthonluck Artosis
Today's play schedule is as follows (all times EDT): Round 1 14:00h MurDeR vs ThisIsJimmy 14:00h Bubba vs Fenix 14:00h HuK vs KiWiKaKi 15:30h suggy vs TT1 15:30h Lastshadow vs Machine 15:30h drewbie vs CauthonLuck 17:00h qxc vs Silver 17:00h PainUser Artosis
Round 2 17:00h Bubba vs TT1 18:30h MurDeR vs Silver 18:30h drewbie vs Artosis 18:30h HuK vs Machine 20:00h ajtls vs KiWiKaKi 20:00h qxc vs ThisIsJimmy 20:00h PainUser vs CauthonLuck 20:00h suggy vs Fenix
Tomorrow's (Sunday, September 5th) play schedule is as follows (all times EDT): Round 3 14:00h Bubba vs suggy 14:00h Fenix vs TT1 15:30h HuK vs Lastshadow 15:30h KiWiKaKi vs Machine 17:00h MurDeR vs qxc 17:00h ThisIsJimmy vs Silver 18:30h CauthonLuck vs Artosis 18:30h drewbie vs PainUser
The top 2 winners of each group will advance to the event in New York City held on October 8th, 9th, and 10th.
Here are the rules for the group play (they are DIFFERENT than IEM Europe): Check-in: 1:30pm EST Matches Start: 2:00pm EST
Group Stage Matches - Round Robin Scheduling - 4 Groups (Groups A,B,C,D) - 4 Players in each Group: 1st seed will be pre-determined, the rest will be a random draw - Best of 3 series, maps chosen through downvotes
Main Group Stage - $50 per match win - $100 to the Top Winner of each group - Top Two in each group (8 total) will advance to the Intel Extreme Masters LAN Finals in NYC
On September 05 2010 02:41 JoshSuth wrote: Latest rumor is that IdrA may not be playing in this at all. I'll keep you posted on what I find out.
Would like to know more about this. Is he busy or is it because of problems with IEM?
I imagine the time issue. It's 3am in Korea right now and he had the GSL earlier. He might be too exhausted. Or maybe tossing the first round out for sleep and playing the 2nd and 3rd round matches. Purely speculation on my part, but makes sense.
On September 05 2010 02:41 JoshSuth wrote: Latest rumor is that IdrA may not be playing in this at all. I'll keep you posted on what I find out.
Would like to know more about this. Is he busy or is it because of problems with IEM?
I imagine the time issue. It's 3am in Korea right now and he had the GSL earlier. He might be too exhausted. Or maybe tossing the first round out for sleep and playing the 2nd and 3rd round matches. Purely speculation on my part, but makes sense.
I think that it's more likely that he can't make it to the finals in NYC.
On September 05 2010 02:41 JoshSuth wrote: Latest rumor is that IdrA may not be playing in this at all. I'll keep you posted on what I find out.
Would like to know more about this. Is he busy or is it because of problems with IEM?
I imagine the time issue. It's 3am in Korea right now and he had the GSL earlier. He might be too exhausted. Or maybe tossing the first round out for sleep and playing the 2nd and 3rd round matches. Purely speculation on my part, but makes sense.
I think that it's more likely that he can't make it to the finals in NYC.
IEM finals is October 8th where the GSL final (if idra got there) is October 2nd? According to some information I just checked, that is.
Anyone hear how the ThisIsJimmy/Murder series went? I have a preview all the group stage games here:http://www.sc2o.com/a/IEMAgroup.asp. But obviously without IdrA things change a bit. TT1 and Fenix should both be able to advance.
On September 05 2010 03:36 Alou wrote: I doubt a zerg will even get out of the group stages now. I was hoping to see IdrA vs TT1 too.
Idra will play on Artosis' account for his group stage later to smash some terran. Machine has a chance, but he is also in the hardest overall group so it's hard to say he's favorable to advance.
On September 05 2010 03:37 drlame wrote: So IdrA can still play round 2 and 3? What's that about?
I swear terran players forget they can build bunkers...
On September 05 2010 03:43 Kaliver wrote: If GSL is conflicting with the IEM I'm guessing Artosis will be out as well.
Their dates don't conflict assuming the information on liquipedia and the IEM site are accurate. Most likely as easy as IdrA is asleep. Artosis' first game is later, so there is a better chance he'll be awake for it.
Beef gave me a statement about the IdrA situation.
"(Beef): IdrA was informed that if he did not play today he would be out of IEM and declined the group stage today. he played at 5am EST so I don't know why he couldn't play 9 hours later"
On September 05 2010 04:06 Machine[USA] wrote: Can anyone explain to me how I check-in on the esl website? I cant seem to find any sort of check-in selection.
Check-in is for Cup events, for this group stage jump on IRC and speak with Beef, SC2 Head Admin. He sent you an email will all the information for the event and different ways to contact him.
How could Idra drop out of this? Atleast the IEM world final offers a decent amount of price money. His chances of winning it would have been not that bad..
On September 05 2010 04:19 Phuelz wrote: How could Idra drop out of this? Atleast the IEM world final offers a decent amount of price money. His chances of winning it would have been not that bad..
On September 05 2010 04:19 Phuelz wrote: How could Idra drop out of this? Atleast the IEM world final offers a decent amount of price money. His chances of winning it would have been not that bad..
1st place GSL is $87,000.
Indeed, but I doubt that his chances here are nearly as good as in the IEM. Besides there seems to be no overlap.
On September 05 2010 04:19 Phuelz wrote: How could Idra drop out of this? Atleast the IEM world final offers a decent amount of price money. His chances of winning it would have been not that bad..
1st place GSL is $87,000.
Indeed, but I doubt that his chances here are nearly as good as in the IEM. Besides there seems to be no overlap.
isnt idra a favorite to win GSL even though he is a foreigner?
bubba is idra? i am not understanding the "results'" tab... =/
No. Idra didn't show. Hes out.
Oh, that's bad... But yeah, the time of this tournament is pretty bad if you live in Korea =/
Its a north american tourney; why cater to 2 players in korea; and even so artosis is playing. This is part of idras grudge and he believes he can hurt ESL by not playing.
bubba is idra? i am not understanding the "results'" tab... =/
No. Idra didn't show. Hes out.
Oh, that's bad... But yeah, the time of this tournament is pretty bad if you live in Korea =/
Its a north american tourney; why cater to 2 players in korea; and even so artosis is playing. This is part of idras grudge and he believes he can hurt ESL by not playing.
Yeah, I'm sure it was IdrA's plan all along to qualify and then not show up to try to stick it to ESL instead of winning it all.
On September 05 2010 04:44 DethAdder wrote: What happened to Big T casting this? Was announced for a while and now no?
I don't think it was ever announced BigT was casting this. Either way it's just iCCup TV and glhf.tv.
ahh ok thx. I had seen it in his header on his stream all week and he had done the others, so I had assumed....
yeah the qualifiers involved so many players and matches that they let a lot of casters in on it. bigT did a decent job but frankly some of his interactions with players/staff (remember the idra drama?) were questionable to say the least.
On September 05 2010 05:18 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: Would be nice to hear a statement from Idra. $12 grand up for grabs at IEM in New York is nothing to snub your nose at.
He's probably very confident about winning the GSL, which i think is a mistake. Gotta plan for the worst.
On September 05 2010 05:44 Grayson Carlyle wrote: There was a link with a convenient listing of which matches ICCup and GLHF.tv would be casting, but I can't find it anymore. Anyone have that?
it was on page 1 of this thread.
On September 05 2010 02:42 GenoZStriker wrote: Stream schedule
On September 05 2010 04:39 Azarkon wrote: IdrA has expressed his displeasure at the IEM and ESL before. He probably didn't care much. Remember this is IdrA we're talking about here.
the only way he can qualify for the big prize pool at the world finals is by winning one of the global challenges coming up.
wtf is up with bubba? going 100% roach against protoss? I normally really don't give any hate to the players because normally they have way more experience than me, but this? seriously?
Love the casting, both Josh and... Raelcun, is it? They're really easy to listen to and they have a very... game-only, no-random-offtopic style of commentating where they just help you focus more on the game rather than try to stand out themselves. Great stuff.
Wait, sooo... IdrA can't play because of GSL, but Artosis can, while being an active player and a daily caster there? Just kidding, I get it that IdrA expects he would go further and takes his focus more seriously. And props to Artosis for managing all this at once.
On September 05 2010 07:06 eNtitY~ wrote: So Idra cant go to NY now?
Correct
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
I thought the schedule was tight but not overlapping each other, my bad then.
On September 05 2010 07:06 eNtitY~ wrote: So Idra cant go to NY now?
Correct
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
I thought the schedule was tight but not overlapping each other, my bad then.
well artosis is playing so i doubt it overlaps. idra probably couldnt be bothered anymore with ESL itself. there was that incident with the penalty points & ban which left a bad taste in idra's mouth. also, they still owe him a good amount of prize money so maybe he's thinking its just not worth it?
On September 05 2010 07:06 eNtitY~ wrote: So Idra cant go to NY now?
Correct
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
I thought the schedule was tight but not overlapping each other, my bad then.
well artosis is playing so i doubt it overlaps. idra probably couldnt be bothered anymore with ESL itself. there was that incident with the penalty points & ban which left a bad taste in idra's mouth. also, they still owe him a good amount of prize money so maybe he's thinking its just not worth it?
as i mentioned earlier you'll have to be top 2 at iem american finals to qualify for the world finals which has that fat prize pool, or qualify through winning a global challenge (so morrow is the first to qualify for the world final).
i don't know how many global challenges there will be though. idra is most likely going to try and qualify through those.
On September 05 2010 07:06 eNtitY~ wrote: So Idra cant go to NY now?
Correct
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
I thought the schedule was tight but not overlapping each other, my bad then.
well artosis is playing so i doubt it overlaps. idra probably couldnt be bothered anymore with ESL itself. there was that incident with the penalty points & ban which left a bad taste in idra's mouth. also, they still owe him a good amount of prize money so maybe he's thinking its just not worth it?
as i mentioned earlier you'll have to be top 2 at iem american finals to qualify for the world finals which has that fat prize pool, or qualify through winning a global challenge (so morrow is the first to qualify for the world final).
i don't know how many global challenges there will be though. idra is most likely going to try and qualify through those.
On September 05 2010 07:06 eNtitY~ wrote: So Idra cant go to NY now?
Correct
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
I thought the schedule was tight but not overlapping each other, my bad then.
well artosis is playing so i doubt it overlaps. idra probably couldnt be bothered anymore with ESL itself. there was that incident with the penalty points & ban which left a bad taste in idra's mouth. also, they still owe him a good amount of prize money so maybe he's thinking its just not worth it?
as i mentioned earlier you'll have to be top 2 at iem american finals to qualify for the world finals which has that fat prize pool, or qualify through winning a global challenge (so morrow is the first to qualify for the world final).
i don't know how many global challenges there will be though. idra is most likely going to try and qualify through those.
The 12.4k prize pool is for NY.
did i mention at all the american finals prize pool at all in my post? i am for certain that the world finals will be a lot more than the american finals.
On September 05 2010 07:06 eNtitY~ wrote: So Idra cant go to NY now?
Correct
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
I thought the schedule was tight but not overlapping each other, my bad then.
well artosis is playing so i doubt it overlaps. idra probably couldnt be bothered anymore with ESL itself. there was that incident with the penalty points & ban which left a bad taste in idra's mouth. also, they still owe him a good amount of prize money so maybe he's thinking its just not worth it?
as i mentioned earlier you'll have to be top 2 at iem american finals to qualify for the world finals which has that fat prize pool, or qualify through winning a global challenge (so morrow is the first to qualify for the world final).
i don't know how many global challenges there will be though. idra is most likely going to try and qualify through those.
There are no more qualifiers for the US. Idra has no way of qualifying anymore.
Carmac has already said that if Idra is owed money from ESL that he should talk to him and he would have could try and help sort it out. If Idra did have a beef with ESL, he would have never showed up for the IEM Global Challenge nor try to qualify for the US nationals. People seriously have to stop making shit up. The EMS thing happened a quite a while ago and Idra has not mentioned ESL owing him money at all for a while now.
if i understand correctly, gc cologne, which was won by morrow, granted him qualification to the world finals at the end of the season.
what makes it impossible for idra to qualify for the world finals then? i understand he can't qualify for the american finals but this doesn't matter anymore.
On September 05 2010 07:06 eNtitY~ wrote: So Idra cant go to NY now?
Correct
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
I thought the schedule was tight but not overlapping each other, my bad then.
well artosis is playing so i doubt it overlaps. idra probably couldnt be bothered anymore with ESL itself. there was that incident with the penalty points & ban which left a bad taste in idra's mouth. also, they still owe him a good amount of prize money so maybe he's thinking its just not worth it?
To be fair, IdrA usually talks straight about such things; not bothering with courtesy. If his claim is potential overlap, it's probably true. Just Artosis is being reasonable to participate in the early stages of both events, not expecting too much in advance.
On September 05 2010 07:06 eNtitY~ wrote: So Idra cant go to NY now?
Correct
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
I thought the schedule was tight but not overlapping each other, my bad then.
well artosis is playing so i doubt it overlaps. idra probably couldnt be bothered anymore with ESL itself. there was that incident with the penalty points & ban which left a bad taste in idra's mouth. also, they still owe him a good amount of prize money so maybe he's thinking its just not worth it?
as i mentioned earlier you'll have to be top 2 at iem american finals to qualify for the world finals which has that fat prize pool, or qualify through winning a global challenge (so morrow is the first to qualify for the world final).
i don't know how many global challenges there will be though. idra is most likely going to try and qualify through those.
The 12.4k prize pool is for NY.
did i mention at all the american finals prize pool at all in my post? i am for certain that the world finals will be a lot more than the american finals.
Considering the posts you were quoting were discussing NY, and since the World Finals prizepool hasn't been announced yet, was an assumption you were talking about the NY prize pool
On September 05 2010 07:34 GTR wrote: if i understand correctly, gc cologne, which was won by morrow, granted him qualification to the world finals at the end of the season.
what makes it impossible for idra to qualify for the world finals then? i understand he can't qualify for the american finals but this doesn't matter anymore.
Unless there is another global challenge (Invite). Idra can not qualify for the ESL Global Finals anymore. This was his only chance.
As GenoZ said, unless there is another Global Challenge, IdrA cannot qualify for the Global Finals. Last season there was only Dubai, so there might not be another one this season, but it's possible.
It might still be possible for IdrA to get to the World Finals by some other means, but he won't be doing it through north america.
On September 05 2010 07:51 Slasher wrote: As GenoZ said, unless there is another Global Challenge, IdrA cannot qualify for the Global Finals. Last season there was only Dubai, so there might not be another one this season, but it's possible.
On September 05 2010 07:06 eNtitY~ wrote: So Idra cant go to NY now?
Correct
On September 05 2010 07:07 andrinho wrote: He was kicked out, so no he cant.
No, IdrA isn't competing in the group stage because "The next stage of iem usa conflicts with gom so given that along with the time zones and latency issues I'm not going to be able to play in it,"
I thought the schedule was tight but not overlapping each other, my bad then.
well artosis is playing so i doubt it overlaps. idra probably couldnt be bothered anymore with ESL itself. there was that incident with the penalty points & ban which left a bad taste in idra's mouth. also, they still owe him a good amount of prize money so maybe he's thinking its just not worth it?
To be fair, IdrA usually talks straight about such things; not bothering with courtesy. If his claim is potential overlap, it's probably true. Just Artosis is being reasonable to participate in the early stages of both events, not expecting too much in advance.
-idra doesnt play again in the GSL until 15/16th. the final is on the 2nd of october if he gets there. -the IEM American Championship finals are from 8th of october to the 10th.
i really dont see any clash in schedule.
the time zone reason? i can understand it'll be hard to play at 3am especially after being involved in a big tournament during the day but he could've easily shuffled his sleeping hours to play in this. there are plenty of PCbangs in korea which stay open 24 hours. the latency issue is also understandable but its never stopped him before from participating in tournaments outside of korea especially with so much on the line.
i just dont think the reasons he gave gives us the full picture but i guess this is all pointless speculation. he made a decision and thats that regardless of why he did it.
The game was over when Drebie killed 3 hatcheries and a lair in the space of about 30 seconds. I think Artosis just gave up at that point and suicided his mutas.
Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
On September 05 2010 08:09 rsol wrote: hahaha artosis is terrible and now he's crying in chat
Because that matchup is fair right?
Artosis won the major battles at the beginning of both games, but Drewbie just targeted all of his hatcheries and then built 40 missile turrets.
Artosis is not terrible.
He won the major battles, like letting 4 marines kill half the drones at his main and a tank get 15 kills? I dont think he is terrible at all but that sounds like a pretty rocky start.
Every terran that you see just sees uber confident in their matches against zerg unless they're playing idrA or Dimaga. Even TLO, who normally seems like a pretty mellow guy, said that he should realistically crush his zerg first round opponent in GSL. There's obviously an issue with the matchup and it goes beyond the early reaper cheese.
Artosis played that last game terrible, he saced 4 hatcheries to drewbies second big push. When he finally attacked drewbie he swept his army without losing a single mutalisk. That big overkill on the push means he could have gathered and attacked the push earlier and saved at least 2 of the expansions. Then he wouldnt be forced to allin attack move the mutalisks 3 minutes later.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
Um. In both games Artosis was playing well up to a point. Shouldn't have wasted those mutas that easily all of a sudden... He seems to know very well what to do strategically, just makes small but crucial micro mistakes. I don't think he deserved to lose like this.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
It's fine man it was well thought. Congratulations on the win.
Artosis didn't play well but what he was arguing was it came down to unit positioning. If he were to send in when Drewbie had position on the low ground the tanks would kill or tank all the baneling damage and he would've lost the game right there. Artosis really wasn't in a position to send his stuff in until Drewbie had his tanks lagging behind while his mm killed the top hatchery. It's partially Artosis's fault for not spreading creep more aggressively and seeing where this army was coming from so he wouldn't get caught so out of position but I understand Artosis's frustration. It's still no excuse for suiciding all those muta though.
btw I also play toss, trying to be impartial here.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
The Damage output against buildings of MMM is way too high and makes defending against drops and split armies nearly impossible. At least it forces you to play very defensively, because you can't defend these drops with spinecrawlers. Toss seems to have the same problem (i.e. Marauders eat a Nexus in seconds). In both games Artosis had a nice build up and good armies, but then he lost his advantage and got teared apart. Maybe he was tired, it felt like he had a lack of focus. Nonetheless the outcome is what usually happens in ZvT, when you are not Dimaga or Idra.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
It's Blizzard's fault for not fixing the matchup for so long, even when back in early P2 everyone was already complaining.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
There's no comparison. In Warcraft 3 when humans went tower tank it still took took skill. Tanks couldn't just kill a base instantly, elf's could repair, undeads could repair. Undeads could get meat wagons, and Elves could get Dotts+ Aow + Golem mercs to rape the tanks. It was still difficult to stop but it could be stopped.
In TvZ what you have is the marauder unit which is also the most cost efficient combat unit in the game, stimming and being healed and destroying hatcheries in 5 seconds. War3 revolved around non effective combat units (tanks) having a minor combat role and a major base killing role and in SC2 you have probably the greatest unit in any RTS having a major combat role, a major harassment role, and a major base killing role. To defend the drops you need to spend more resources then they need to kill the actual hatchery, and they can just NOT drop you if you are prepared, and your main army is significantly impacted since you spent all those resources so you could defend drops at your bases. Then there's the fact dropping multiple places at the same time takes about 40 apm, 3 medivacs, shift drop 3 locations, use 3 ctrl groups, stim right click, dead hatchery.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
You did what you had to do to win. No one's blaming you. But you can resort to easy defence (AND get thors AND get the upgrade on your base) while blowing up everything with mass range. I think that's unfair that sc2 is far more unforgiving to terrans mistakes as opposed to the other 2.
But ofcourse you played well and gl for the rest of the matches (i mean this sincerely) Artosis played bad that game.
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
-Drewbie makes Marines, Marauders, Tanks and Thors-
"Hey Artosis, make more than 3 units, LOL"
Everyone get as much Drewbie as you can. After 1.1 you won't be seeing him in any tournaments.
Yeah, because artosis didn't BM at all. drewbie got tired of artosis' bull and told him off.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
Agreed. A few roaches even would have made a huge difference.
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
He didn't BM at all until he justifiably got tired of Artosis' BM/whining.
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
-Drewbie makes Marines, Marauders, Tanks and Thors-
"Hey Artosis, make more than 3 units, LOL"
Everyone get as much Drewbie as you can. After 1.1 you won't be seeing him in any tournaments.
Yeah, because artosis didn't BM at all. drewbie got tired of artosis' bull and told him off.
"Thor good unit".
"Maybe you should make more than 3 units."
Now, I don't write great works of fiction, but I'd say the bottom statement is much more inflammatory and direct than the former.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
Agreed. A few roaches even would have made a huge difference.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
Agreed. A few roaches even would have made a huge difference.
Haters gonna hate.
LOL yup, just a few roaches. Huge difference. Huge.
You sound like an intelligent and highly competent player.
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
Agreed. A few roaches even would have made a huge difference.
Haters gonna hate.
Roaches are amazing vs MMM + Tanks and have such good mobility for defending drops... oh wait.
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
-Drewbie makes Marines, Marauders, Tanks and Thors-
"Hey Artosis, make more than 3 units, LOL"
Everyone get as much Drewbie as you can. After 1.1 you won't be seeing him in any tournaments.
Yeah, because artosis didn't BM at all. drewbie got tired of artosis' bull and told him off.
"Thor good unit".
"Maybe you should make more than 3 units."
Now, I don't write great works of fiction, but I'd say the bottom statement is much more inflammatory and direct than the former.
gg drewbie. Enjoy the tournys while you can!
Did you not hear the BMing from the previous game?
On September 05 2010 08:13 Kage wrote: Terran reminds me of Human in Warcraft 3 before it became Orc craft. All they did was build mass towers and then upgrade them to be a gay ass pussy camping race. Good job drewbie building those turrets were awesome.
I don't think artosis played much better but this is really annoying to play against. Im sure he's cursing the day he chose Zerg over his Terran. From weakest race in beta to strongest in retail... Blizzard has to fix this
(for the haters i play toss)
i'm sorry but what do you expect me to make when artosis goes MUTA ONLY lol
Agreed. A few roaches even would have made a huge difference.
Haters gonna hate.
absorbing 2 rounds of marauder fire is really gonna make a huge difference.
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
He didn't BM at all until he justifiably got tired of Artosis' BM/whining.
And then he stooped to below Artosis's level. I can understand BM when you're losing a ZvT, halfway across the world, at an ungodly hour in the morning, and being beat by a newcomer being carried by his race, but if you're winning a TvZ and it's a cakewalk, don't be such an ass.
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
-Drewbie makes Marines, Marauders, Tanks and Thors-
"Hey Artosis, make more than 3 units, LOL"
Everyone get as much Drewbie as you can. After 1.1 you won't be seeing him in any tournaments.
Yeah, because artosis didn't BM at all. drewbie got tired of artosis' bull and told him off.
"Thor good unit".
"Maybe you should make more than 3 units."
Now, I don't write great works of fiction, but I'd say the bottom statement is much more inflammatory and direct than the former.
Consider how Artosis has been shit talking him before this moment I don't think you should point at Drewbie being the one to start this. We get SC2 gets intense and players get frustrated after a while, but others start to get annoyed after that attitude.
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
-Drewbie makes Marines, Marauders, Tanks and Thors-
"Hey Artosis, make more than 3 units, LOL"
Everyone get as much Drewbie as you can. After 1.1 you won't be seeing him in any tournaments.
Yeah, because artosis didn't BM at all. drewbie got tired of artosis' bull and told him off.
"Thor good unit".
"Maybe you should make more than 3 units."
Now, I don't write great works of fiction, but I'd say the bottom statement is much more inflammatory and direct than the former.
gg drewbie. Enjoy the tournys while you can!
In the game before artosis didn't gg and left the game, which is pretty much the one universal sign of bm. In the second game he continued to slam his head against the brick wall, and when it didn't work he slammed even harder and whined about the wall. I would be annoyed as well at someone just making a load of excuses when I beat him.
And what the hell does it matter which line was the worse? Is it artosis right to decide what level the bm has to be on to be okay, and when someone crosses the line he is the bad guy? gtfo
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
He didn't BM at all until he justifiably got tired of Artosis' BM/whining.
And then he stooped to below Artosis's level. I can understand BM when you're losing a ZvT, halfway across the world, at an ungodly hour in the morning, and being beat by a newcomer being carried by his race, but if you're winning a TvZ and it's a cakewalk, don't be such an ass.
You're like a feminist that wants all the privileges and none of the drawbacks of sex egalitarianism.
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
-Drewbie makes Marines, Marauders, Tanks, Thors, Medivacs, Hellions and Vikings.
fixed
"Hey Artosis, make more than 3 units, LOL"
Everyone get as much Drewbie as you can. After 1.1 you won't be seeing him in any tournaments.
Yeah those Battlecruiser and Reaper nerfs are really going to hurt this playstyle.
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
-Drewbie makes Marines, Marauders, Tanks and Thors-
"Hey Artosis, make more than 3 units, LOL"
Everyone get as much Drewbie as you can. After 1.1 you won't be seeing him in any tournaments.
Yeah, because artosis didn't BM at all. drewbie got tired of artosis' bull and told him off.
"Thor good unit".
"Maybe you should make more than 3 units."
Now, I don't write great works of fiction, but I'd say the bottom statement is much more inflammatory and direct than the former.
Consider how Artosis has been shit talking him before this moment I don't think you should point at Drewbie being the one to start this. We get SC2 gets intense and players get frustrated, but other get annoyed after that attitude.
He was winning. The fact he can't be gracious while winning is just pathetic. Artosis should have shut the **** up, but Drewbie shouldn't have BM'd back.
No offense but I think that so many pro terrans nowadays just popped out because of current balance. The coming patch will show who is really skilled. But its too early too bash Drewbie, I think he is a good player. Just shouldn't BM when you win, it hurts twice the loser.
On September 05 2010 03:52 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Beef gave me a statement about the IdrA situation.
"(Beef): IdrA was informed that if he did not play today he would be out of IEM and declined the group stage today. he played at 5am EST so I don't know why he couldn't play 9 hours later"
To be fair, the ESL started at 5 am est and the pre-game rap/marshmellow took up at least an hour so his game didn't even start until 6am. Even though the games were short, it probably took 30-45 minutes and he has his interview/other stuff he has to take care of/travel time.
It's not like he can drop off and go to sleep for "9" hours as soon as he was done with his game.
On September 05 2010 08:31 coddan wrote: In the second game he continued to slam his head against the brick wall, and when it didn't work he slammed even harder and whined about the wall.
Yeah, he should have switched races between the two games.
lol, when i qualified for the IEM group stage, i beat artosis in the tournament, and he flaaaaaamed me then too, and also did the exact same build ( muta ling baneling ). I even beat him in the beta when zerg was the best race T_T. Also he was harassing me non-stop to play 1 hour before the match was supposed to start ( I would have played early but admins wouldn't let us ). So of course I did get a little bit tired of his shit.
My comment was not BM, I was giving him some constructive criticism, every other zerg in the world makes a hive when they have 3+ bases, unlike artosis who just continued to mass mutas and suicides them vs +3 rines and +2 thors in both games.
On September 05 2010 08:31 coddan wrote: In the second game he continued to slam his head against the brick wall, and when it didn't work he slammed even harder and whined about the wall.
Yeah, he should have switched races between the two games.
On September 05 2010 08:31 coddan wrote: In the second game he continued to slam his head against the brick wall, and when it didn't work he slammed even harder and whined about the wall.
Yeah, he should have switched races between the two games.
On September 05 2010 08:35 drewbie.root wrote: lol, when i qualified for the IEM group stage, i beat artosis in the tournament, and he flaaaaaamed me then too, and also did the exact same build ( muta ling baneling ). I even beat him in the beta when zerg was the best race T_T. Also he was harassing me non-stop to play 1 hour before the match was supposed to start ( I would have played early but admins wouldn't let us ). So of course I did get a little bit tired of his shit.
My comment was not BM, I was giving him some constructive criticism, every other zerg in the world makes a hive when they have 3+ bases, unlike artosis who just continued to mass mutas and suicides them vs +3 rines and +2 thors in both games.
You are awesome. Stay awesome and good luck with your next matches. Don't worry too much about the shit on the forums ^_^
On September 05 2010 08:22 Grimjim wrote: Drewbie just loves to BM, huh? He 1A's to victory then gloats to pretty much every Zerg he meets. Talk about being carried by your race.
-Drewbie makes Marines, Marauders, Tanks and Thors-
"Hey Artosis, make more than 3 units, LOL"
Everyone get as much Drewbie as you can. After 1.1 you won't be seeing him in any tournaments.
Yeah, because artosis didn't BM at all. drewbie got tired of artosis' bull and told him off.
"Thor good unit".
"Maybe you should make more than 3 units."
Now, I don't write great works of fiction, but I'd say the bottom statement is much more inflammatory and direct than the former.
Consider how Artosis has been shit talking him before this moment I don't think you should point at Drewbie being the one to start this. We get SC2 gets intense and players get frustrated, but other get annoyed after that attitude.
He was winning. The fact he can't be gracious while winning is just pathetic. Artosis should have shut the **** up, but Drewbie shouldn't have BM'd back.
Just why are you whining? It's perfectly whine to bm back if they bm first. If they don't like it they just shouldn't bm first. You're just butthurt because of something and try to discredit his win.
Artosis lost because he didn't have enough multitasking. Awful defense from the first drop + push into another awful defense. The BM wasn't cool but Artosis is currently the most BM player going to tournaments so it is to be expected.
To be fair if this was TLO and not drewbie would there be such a rage? Perhaps not. Would there have been BM by Artosis and retaliation from drewbie? Perhaps not.
Morrow wasn't considered a real top player till he won IEM anyway (top by the community that is) so one way to win the hearts of the fans perhaps is not to resort to a "laid back easier win strategy". Just thinking.
Drewbie is nothing but a race abuser, sacrifises 100 supply to kill 4 hatches, then turtle back up with 100 towers, this is wc3 human all over. With terran nerf his gonna be nothing, that goes for most of the terrans in IEM. Painuser lastshadow silver Fenix, none of them would even be close to getting qualifed unless it was for the abusive shit you can do with terran.
Prob worst thing right now is the planetary fortress with towers around it. NOTHING breaks it. Hatches is made of paper, and dies before you can react. Its not even worth building defences at your bases cus stimmed marauder with medivac backup do not die to that shit.
I really dont care if artosis say some silly shit in the end, I can only imagine how annoying it is to loose to some scrub thats only there cus his TERRAN.
Think about it, since after beta, how many NEW known zergs and protosses do we have compared to the terrans. None big pops into mind, maby socke and madfrog ? The list of new known terrans is endless.
On September 05 2010 08:33 Grimjim wrote: We'll all see in three months when no one can remember Drewbie's name. Balance will do that to a lot of these new up and coming Terran 'pros'.
gg.
Drewbie actually wins tournaments, so I doubt people will forget about him anytime soon.
On September 05 2010 08:40 Pekkz wrote: Drewbie is nothing but a race abuser, sacrifises 100 supply to kill 4 hatches, then turtle back up with 100 towers, this is wc3 human all over. With terran nerf his gonna be nothing, that goes for most of the terrans in IEM. Painuser lastshadow silver Fenix, none of them would even be close to getting qualifed unless it was for the abusive shit you can do with terran.
Prob worst thing right now is the planetary fortress with towers around it. NOTHING breaks it. Hatches is made of paper, and dies before you can react. Its not even worth building defences at your bases cus stimmed marauder with medivac backup do not die to that shit.
I really dont care if artosis say some silly shit in the end, I can only imagine how annoying it is to loose to some scrub thats only there cus his TERRAN.
Think about it, since after beta, how many NEW known zergs and protosses do we have compared to the terrans. None big pops into mind, maby socke and madfrog ? The list of new known terrans is endless.
Too bad planetary fortresses, marauders, and missile towers aren't getting changed at all then.
On September 05 2010 08:39 Kage wrote: To be fair if this was TLO and not drewbie would there be such a rage? Perhaps not. Would there have been BM by Artosis and retaliation from drewbie? Perhaps not.
Morrow wasn't considered a real top player till he won IEM anyway (top by the community that is) so one way to win the hearts of the fans perhaps is not to resort to a "laid back easier win strategy". Just thinking.
Of course TLO wouldn't have gotten any beef, he's actually a good and innovative player.
On September 05 2010 08:33 Grimjim wrote: We'll all see in three months when no one can remember Drewbie's name. Balance will do that to a lot of these new up and coming Terran 'pros'.
gg.
Drewbie actually wins tournaments, so I doubt people will forget about him anytime soon.
Drewbie is gonna be called newbie in a few months.
On September 05 2010 08:35 drewbie.root wrote: lol, when i qualified for the IEM group stage, i beat artosis in the tournament, and he flaaaaaamed me then too, and also did the exact same build ( muta ling baneling ). I even beat him in the beta when zerg was the best race T_T. Also he was harassing me non-stop to play 1 hour before the match was supposed to start ( I would have played early but admins wouldn't let us ). So of course I did get a little bit tired of his shit.
My comment was not BM, I was giving him some constructive criticism, every other zerg in the world makes a hive when they have 3+ bases, unlike artosis who just continued to mass mutas and suicides them vs +3 rines and +2 thors in both games.
other than artosis' mistakes do you think terran is stronger?
On September 05 2010 08:41 Shikyo wrote: Oh no, Zerglings will be taking less splash damage. What a huge nerf....
Come on it won't really change anything.
It won't change anything? The splash damage that tanks get? The non cliff easy camping? The put 2 tanks behind army and let it all disappear?
Wouldn't all of these easy laid back defense style change?
As I said, the only change is splash damage to Zerglings. They still die to one hit and most T's get weapon upgrades for tanks anyway.
It won't change essentially anything unless Hydras become viable, but I really, really don't see that happening.
Why couldn't you do those exact same things vs Zerg after the patch? The only thing that changes is the splash damage tanks deal to Zerglings. Everything else is the same. .
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Also, here's a great idea that would make drops on 3 different fronts simultaneously less ridiculous... bring back scourge? No fucking clue why they were removed in the first place and they take some focus to use properly anyways.
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
On September 05 2010 08:47 dave22222 wrote: Artosis is terrible and should complain about his own lack of skill.
What would you have done differently? What is your preferred strat against Terran? How do you cover 4 marauder drops simultaneously? Please enlighten us.
While it is absolutely hilarious to see Artosis rage out of game via avenues like state of the game podcast, it is completely terrible to see him rage in a tournament game like this. He is a fucking GOM employee now. Fucker has to man up and say GL HF followed by silence until GG.
Learn some manners, artosis.
Drewbie is 100% correct in talking back. He gets thrashed on by IdrA and Artosis all the time. I didn't see the games, but judging from reading this thread, Artosis played like shit.
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
Back then all Zerg players did all game long was mass roaches.
It was a very one-dimensional match-up, so they changed it. I still remember the massive bitching that ensued when it happened.
Trust me, there was a period in which the Zerg and Terran positions were reversed balance-wise, and it was Zerg players who had to deal with the accusation that they were playing the ezmode race that can win without doing anything other than a-move.
On September 05 2010 08:35 drewbie.root wrote: lol, when i qualified for the IEM group stage, i beat artosis in the tournament, and he flaaaaaamed me then too, and also did the exact same build ( muta ling baneling ). I even beat him in the beta when zerg was the best race T_T. Also he was harassing me non-stop to play 1 hour before the match was supposed to start ( I would have played early but admins wouldn't let us ). So of course I did get a little bit tired of his shit.
My comment was not BM, I was giving him some constructive criticism, every other zerg in the world makes a hive when they have 3+ bases, unlike artosis who just continued to mass mutas and suicides them vs +3 rines and +2 thors in both games.
Nothing would have been different if he had teched. You where really marauder heavy so ultras wouldnt have made a difference. As for other options, only a few good fungal growths would been a good option, but nothing that zerg has can save those hatch snipes you where doing. And thats what made you win, not your bad army controll.
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
i think its ridiculous how when zerg was the strongest race and terrans/protoss refused to do anything creative(apart from a few good seeds like Jinro with his reaper into ghost opening which as effective as it was for some reason everyone else refused to implement) and all that happened was a million patches that nerfed zerg over the course of a few months. Now zerg is told to "use nydus" for half a year and no end to this insanity is in sight.
On September 05 2010 08:35 drewbie.root wrote: lol, when i qualified for the IEM group stage, i beat artosis in the tournament, and he flaaaaaamed me then too, and also did the exact same build ( muta ling baneling ). I even beat him in the beta when zerg was the best race T_T. Also he was harassing me non-stop to play 1 hour before the match was supposed to start ( I would have played early but admins wouldn't let us ). So of course I did get a little bit tired of his shit.
My comment was not BM, I was giving him some constructive criticism, every other zerg in the world makes a hive when they have 3+ bases, unlike artosis who just continued to mass mutas and suicides them vs +3 rines and +2 thors in both games.
Nothing would have been different if he had teched. You where really marauder heavy so ultras wouldnt have made a difference. As for other options, only a few good fungal growths would been a good option, but nothing that zerg has can save those hatch snipes you where doing. And thats what made you win, not your bad army controll.
Are you a professional gamer? have you played in and won any tournaments? Im guessing the answer to both of those questions is no, so before you say that Drewbie is wrong in what he is saying you need to show why your so qualified to make that remark. If you watched those games you would see that Drewbie is right about everything he said, the game would have been much different if Artosis didnt try to beat Drewbie with Mutas when Drewbie had the EXACT counter to Mutas. The reason why Drewbie was able to go on a rampage sniping all of Artosis' hatcheries is because he was diverting Artosis' attention with drops and little attack forces, and when Artosis moved his whole army then Drewbie attacked while he was out of position.
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
i think its ridiculous how when zerg was the strongest race and terrans/protoss refused to do anything creative(apart from a few good seeds like Jinro with his reaper into ghost opening which as effective as it was for some reason everyone else refused to implement) and all that happened was a million patches that nerfed zerg over the course of a few months. Now zerg is told to "use nydus" for half a year and no end to this insanity is in sight.
I agree its funny how terran/protoss were complaining and all that and like you said zerg to nerfed hardcore and now its opposite and terran/protoss's are telling zergs to be more creative when they couldn't do it themselves? Hypocrisy at its best
Although I feel Artosis did play pretty bad against drewbie he never really transitioned or anything and losing all those mutas in that last game was bad let alone letting drewbie kill 4 bases before stomping the army. It wasn't balance that lost Artosis the game it was his playing.
On September 05 2010 08:35 drewbie.root wrote: lol, when i qualified for the IEM group stage, i beat artosis in the tournament, and he flaaaaaamed me then too, and also did the exact same build ( muta ling baneling ). I even beat him in the beta when zerg was the best race T_T. Also he was harassing me non-stop to play 1 hour before the match was supposed to start ( I would have played early but admins wouldn't let us ). So of course I did get a little bit tired of his shit.
My comment was not BM, I was giving him some constructive criticism, every other zerg in the world makes a hive when they have 3+ bases, unlike artosis who just continued to mass mutas and suicides them vs +3 rines and +2 thors in both games.
Nothing would have been different if he had teched. You where really marauder heavy so ultras wouldnt have made a difference. As for other options, only a few good fungal growths would been a good option, but nothing that zerg has can save those hatch snipes you where doing. And thats what made you win, not your bad army controll.
Are you a professional gamer? have you played in and won any tournaments? Im guessing the answer to both of those questions is no, so before you say that Drewbie is wrong in what he is saying you need to show why your so qualified to make that remark. If you watched those games you would see that Drewbie is right about everything he said, the game would have been much different if Artosis didnt try to beat Drewbie with Mutas when Drewbie had the EXACT counter to Mutas. The reason why Drewbie was able to go on a rampage sniping all of Artosis' hatcheries is because he was diverting Artosis' attention with drops and little attack forces, and when Artosis moved his whole army then Drewbie attacked while he was out of position.
So he was supposed to pull an entirely different army out of his ass when he had 4 bases sniped? What exactly IS supposed to counter a Marauder, Tank, Thor army if not magic-box Mutas?
Do you even PLAY this game? Ling/Bling/Muta is the most powerful ZvT strat available right now. Lings counter the Thors, Blings melt the Marines and deal damage to the other units, and Mutalisks clean up the Tanks and Thors if controlled properly. Artosis played awful, but Drewbie is wrong in thinking there is a more viable Zerg strat.
Of course, he wouldn't really know since he just hides behind 100 turrets when his 1A army is flanked. Enjoy the nerf, bro.
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
Back then all Zerg players did all game long was mass roaches.
It was a very one-dimensional match-up, so they changed it. I still remember the massive bitching that ensued when it happened.
Trust me, there was a period in which the Zerg and Terran positions were reversed balance-wise, and it was Zerg players who had to deal with the accusation that they were playing the ezmode race that can win without doing anything other than a-move.
I don't need to trust you, I've played the beta and been following from the start. That wasn't all Zergs did, it was Roach-Hydra most of the time and there were other units as well. Increasing Roach supply still wasn't the correct move, ZvX didn't become any more interesting.
The correct decision was to remove Roach's health and make the regen so that 2 marines would still kill a Roach in the same time, but having multiple units would make Roaches much less durable. This'd have had them hold the same early game usability while making them much weaker in the lategame.
They also needed to reduce Hydra's supply to 1 and make it weaker with like 60 health and 8 damage attacks, along with a lower cost. What they did was make 1. Zerg lose its feel 2. Force one unit path for both ZvP and ZvT.
Enough about that though, I switched my race from Zerg to Terran a week ago so I don't need to worry about these things anymore.
At least the matches started now so that we can discuss the actual games! I hope Lastshadow will tech to the reactor Starport soon or he'll be in trouble
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
Back then all Zerg players did all game long was mass roaches.
It was a very one-dimensional match-up, so they changed it. I still remember the massive bitching that ensued when it happened.
Trust me, there was a period in which the Zerg and Terran positions were reversed balance-wise, and it was Zerg players who had to deal with the accusation that they were playing the ezmode race that can win without doing anything other than a-move.
Incorrect. The time when Z was thought to be OP was in the very first week(s) of the beta. Why? People didn't know how to deal with the 1 base roach push. It got soon figured out.
Terrans were crying hardcore about Zerg during the first week(s) Why? Because they were stuck in the mind set of going Bio every single game and Mutabaneling more or less owned that hardcore. Now days bio is a lot more viable due to proper follow ups and proper micro / response. Then Turrets got heavily boosted, so did Thors, and Mech play more or less got discovered.
Roaches were never an issue except in the late game when Zerg could create out of nowhere a shit ton of Roaches and have massive balls of Roaches. (1 supply.) This wasn't that much of an issue early or mid-game mainly because Zerg didn't have the resources to make enough Roaches that it would become a ball of invincible.
Also another reason why Roaches weren't an issue in early-mid game was because they have easy to get hardcounters, especially for Terran. And when in small numbers, Zerg is always the weaker part.
On September 05 2010 08:35 drewbie.root wrote: lol, when i qualified for the IEM group stage, i beat artosis in the tournament, and he flaaaaaamed me then too, and also did the exact same build ( muta ling baneling ). I even beat him in the beta when zerg was the best race T_T. Also he was harassing me non-stop to play 1 hour before the match was supposed to start ( I would have played early but admins wouldn't let us ). So of course I did get a little bit tired of his shit.
My comment was not BM, I was giving him some constructive criticism, every other zerg in the world makes a hive when they have 3+ bases, unlike artosis who just continued to mass mutas and suicides them vs +3 rines and +2 thors in both games.
Nothing would have been different if he had teched. You where really marauder heavy so ultras wouldnt have made a difference. As for other options, only a few good fungal growths would been a good option, but nothing that zerg has can save those hatch snipes you where doing. And thats what made you win, not your bad army controll.
Are you a professional gamer? have you played in and won any tournaments? Im guessing the answer to both of those questions is no, so before you say that Drewbie is wrong in what he is saying you need to show why your so qualified to make that remark. If you watched those games you would see that Drewbie is right about everything he said, the game would have been much different if Artosis didnt try to beat Drewbie with Mutas when Drewbie had the EXACT counter to Mutas. The reason why Drewbie was able to go on a rampage sniping all of Artosis' hatcheries is because he was diverting Artosis' attention with drops and little attack forces, and when Artosis moved his whole army then Drewbie attacked while he was out of position.
Are you? im guessing the answer to that question is no, so before you say that drewbie is right in what hes saying you need to show why your so qualifed to say hes right. See what i did there?
The problem my friend, is that doing multiple drop attacks as terran requires far less apm and good execution then it takes for zerg to defend it. And in the 10 sec it takes for stim marauders to kill a hatch , you need super reaction to be able to save em, and prob wont be able to even if you have that.
Edit: also saying that drewbie had the exact counter to artosis shows that you have N O idea what your talking about. Ling baneling muta is the most popular counter to marauder/rine/thor/tank.
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
Back then all Zerg players did all game long was mass roaches.
It was a very one-dimensional match-up, so they changed it. I still remember the massive bitching that ensued when it happened.
Trust me, there was a period in which the Zerg and Terran positions were reversed balance-wise, and it was Zerg players who had to deal with the accusation that they were playing the ezmode race that can win without doing anything other than a-move.
I don't need to trust you, I've played the beta and been following from the start. That wasn't all Zergs did, it was Roach-Hydra most of the time and there were other units as well. Increasing Roach supply still wasn't the correct move, ZvX didn't become any more interesting.
The correct decision was to remove Roach's health and make the regen so that 2 marines would still kill a Roach in the same time, but having multiple units would make Roaches much less durable. This'd have had them hold the same early game usability while making them much weaker in the lategame.
They also needed to reduce Hydra's supply to 1 and make it weaker with like 60 health and 8 damage attacks, along with a lower cost. What they did was make 1. Zerg lose its feel 2. Force one unit path for both ZvP and ZvT.
Enough about that though, I switched my race from Zerg to Terran a week ago so I don't need to worry about these things anymore.
At least the matches started now so that we can discuss the actual games! I hope Lastshadow will tech to the reactor Starport soon or he'll be in trouble
Roaches in the first few weeks of Beta had 2 armor and had an upgrade that made them regen ridiculously fast even when unburrowed. Both of these features were nerfed before the food nerf came in.
So yes there was a time when all Zergs built were Roaches and the race was clearly unbalanced. That's all I'm stating.
Btw, IdrA himself admitted that Zergs were unbalanced back then.
Race balance and everything else to do with his game with Drewbie aside. Artosis is a good caster but when hes going to be so childish and disrepectful to other players. Why is he allowed to cast the GSL. Especially when GSL is going on right now thanks to Blizzard and he feels the need to flame Blizzard during the game.
No matter how or why you lose. Just GG and leave. Its simple...
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
Back then all Zerg players did all game long was mass roaches.
It was a very one-dimensional match-up, so they changed it. I still remember the massive bitching that ensued when it happened.
Trust me, there was a period in which the Zerg and Terran positions were reversed balance-wise, and it was Zerg players who had to deal with the accusation that they were playing the ezmode race that can win without doing anything other than a-move.
I don't need to trust you, I've played the beta and been following from the start. That wasn't all Zergs did, it was Roach-Hydra most of the time and there were other units as well. Increasing Roach supply still wasn't the correct move, ZvX didn't become any more interesting.
The correct decision was to remove Roach's health and make the regen so that 2 marines would still kill a Roach in the same time, but having multiple units would make Roaches much less durable. This'd have had them hold the same early game usability while making them much weaker in the lategame.
They also needed to reduce Hydra's supply to 1 and make it weaker with like 60 health and 8 damage attacks, along with a lower cost. What they did was make 1. Zerg lose its feel 2. Force one unit path for both ZvP and ZvT.
Enough about that though, I switched my race from Zerg to Terran a week ago so I don't need to worry about these things anymore.
At least the matches started now so that we can discuss the actual games! I hope Lastshadow will tech to the reactor Starport soon or he'll be in trouble
Roaches in the first few weeks of Beta had 2 armor and had an upgrade that made them regen ridiculously fast even when unburrowed. Both of these features were nerfed before the food nerf came in.
So yes there was a time when all Zergs built were Roaches and the race was clearly unbalanced. That's all I'm stating.
What he said was not wrong at all. Roaches were only OP in the late game (3-4+ bases), where Zerg could actually pump 100 roaches due to the 1 supply cost and the larvae stacking. The regen upgrade required Tier 3, so it still didn't fix their early game vulnerabilities. But yes, Zerg was quite strong for a brief period (early P1) before all the nerfs.
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
Back then all Zerg players did all game long was mass roaches.
It was a very one-dimensional match-up, so they changed it. I still remember the massive bitching that ensued when it happened.
Trust me, there was a period in which the Zerg and Terran positions were reversed balance-wise, and it was Zerg players who had to deal with the accusation that they were playing the ezmode race that can win without doing anything other than a-move.
I don't need to trust you, I've played the beta and been following from the start. That wasn't all Zergs did, it was Roach-Hydra most of the time and there were other units as well. Increasing Roach supply still wasn't the correct move, ZvX didn't become any more interesting.
The correct decision was to remove Roach's health and make the regen so that 2 marines would still kill a Roach in the same time, but having multiple units would make Roaches much less durable. This'd have had them hold the same early game usability while making them much weaker in the lategame.
They also needed to reduce Hydra's supply to 1 and make it weaker with like 60 health and 8 damage attacks, along with a lower cost. What they did was make 1. Zerg lose its feel 2. Force one unit path for both ZvP and ZvT.
Enough about that though, I switched my race from Zerg to Terran a week ago so I don't need to worry about these things anymore.
At least the matches started now so that we can discuss the actual games! I hope Lastshadow will tech to the reactor Starport soon or he'll be in trouble
Roaches in the first few weeks of Beta had 2 armor and had an upgrade that made them regen ridiculously fast even when unburrowed. Both of these features were nerfed before the food nerf came in.
So yes there was a time when all Zergs built were Roaches and the race was clearly unbalanced. That's all I'm stating.
What he said was not wrong at all. Roaches were only OP in the late game (3-4+ bases), where Zerg could actually pump 100 roaches due to the 1 supply cost and the larvae stacking. The regen upgrade required Tier 3, so it still didn't fix their early game vulnerabilities. But yes, Zerg was quite strong for a brief period before all the nerfs.
What he said was not wrong at all, it was just not relevant to what I said. Roaches were nerfed because they were considered too one-dimensional and too powerful late-game. No one's debating that they could be held back early game in small numbers if you rushed the counters.
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
Back then all Zerg players did all game long was mass roaches.
It was a very one-dimensional match-up, so they changed it. I still remember the massive bitching that ensued when it happened.
Trust me, there was a period in which the Zerg and Terran positions were reversed balance-wise, and it was Zerg players who had to deal with the accusation that they were playing the ezmode race that can win without doing anything other than a-move.
I don't need to trust you, I've played the beta and been following from the start. That wasn't all Zergs did, it was Roach-Hydra most of the time and there were other units as well. Increasing Roach supply still wasn't the correct move, ZvX didn't become any more interesting.
The correct decision was to remove Roach's health and make the regen so that 2 marines would still kill a Roach in the same time, but having multiple units would make Roaches much less durable. This'd have had them hold the same early game usability while making them much weaker in the lategame.
They also needed to reduce Hydra's supply to 1 and make it weaker with like 60 health and 8 damage attacks, along with a lower cost. What they did was make 1. Zerg lose its feel 2. Force one unit path for both ZvP and ZvT.
Enough about that though, I switched my race from Zerg to Terran a week ago so I don't need to worry about these things anymore.
At least the matches started now so that we can discuss the actual games! I hope Lastshadow will tech to the reactor Starport soon or he'll be in trouble
Roaches in the first few weeks of Beta had 2 armor and had an upgrade that made them regen ridiculously fast even when unburrowed. Both of these features were nerfed before the food nerf came in.
So yes there was a time when all Zergs built were Roaches and the race was clearly unbalanced. That's all I'm stating.
What he said was not wrong at all. Roaches were only OP in the late game (3-4+ bases), where Zerg could actually pump 100 roaches due to the 1 supply cost and the larvae stacking. The regen upgrade required Tier 3, so it still didn't fix their early game vulnerabilities. But yes, Zerg was quite strong for a brief period before all the nerfs.
What he said was not wrong at all, it was just not relevant to what I said. Roaches were nerfed because they were considered too one-dimensional and too powerful late-game. No one's debating that they could be held back early game in small numbers if you rushed the counters.
Even back then the Terrans could have destroyed Zergs in the earlygame, just like they can now. They just hadn't realized it yet. It was only fair that Zerg would have an advantage in the lategame. It was a mistake.
Mass colossus is pretty powerful. I kind of hope that lastshadow loses this
On September 05 2010 02:41 JoshSuth wrote: Latest rumor is that IdrA may not be playing in this at all. I'll keep you posted on what I find out.
Would like to know more about this. Is he busy or is it because of problems with IEM?
I imagine the time issue. It's 3am in Korea right now and he had the GSL earlier. He might be too exhausted. Or maybe tossing the first round out for sleep and playing the 2nd and 3rd round matches. Purely speculation on my part, but makes sense.
I think that it's more likely that he can't make it to the finals in NYC.
IEM finals is October 8th where the GSL final (if idra got there) is October 2nd? According to some information I just checked, that is.
I kind of wish image macros were allowed so all the threads that break down into balance discussions could have the "oh, it's this thread again" stapled onto them.
As for the games, I think Artosis was rightfully frustrated (drewbie even said the reason he does the multiple drops is because it takes way more APM to stop than to do), but stuff like that is kinda unprofessional coming from anybody. A lot of it just comes off like Artosis feels entitled to act the way he does, when he doesn't have the record or the skill the idrA does to even argue the point.
And I'm sad idrA is playing GSL over this just because it means I have to stay up obscenely late to watch his games. Would be so much easier to keep up if he was playing IEM
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
i think its ridiculous how when zerg was the strongest race and terrans/protoss refused to do anything creative(apart from a few good seeds like Jinro with his reaper into ghost opening which as effective as it was for some reason everyone else refused to implement) and all that happened was a million patches that nerfed zerg over the course of a few months. Now zerg is told to "use nydus" for half a year and no end to this insanity is in sight.
I agree its funny how terran/protoss were complaining and all that and like you said zerg to nerfed hardcore and now its opposite and terran/protoss's are telling zergs to be more creative when they couldn't do it themselves? Hypocrisy at its best
Although I feel Artosis did play pretty bad against drewbie he never really transitioned or anything and losing all those mutas in that last game was bad let alone letting drewbie kill 4 bases before stomping the army. It wasn't balance that lost Artosis the game it was his playing.
i didnt see the match but there is very little you can do to stop marauders from killing ur hatcheries. You have to pretty much take mapcontrol during early midgame and keep it throughout. Depending on the map of course. But hard, very hard. Funny, however, seeing all this marauder mobility vs zerg immobility when it is we, zerg, who are supposed to abuse terran immobility. What?
Seriously - tourney should just enforce free wins and stop making the players look like bad guys for deciding to re or take free wins. This is the same thing as Tesla's tourney. LS opponents, take the wins, otherwise it just lets him get a free re-game every series.
solution for this is so simple most of the times. dust of your gfx card fan, get a new fan for 4$, configure the fan speed in catalyst control center etc...
On September 05 2010 09:41 Donner wrote: solution for this is so simple most of the times. dust of your gfx card fan, get a new fan for 4$, configure the fan speed in catalyst control center etc...
yeah but some people aren't comfortable opening their computers and if they fuck up they can fry their entire motherboard
On September 05 2010 08:52 Siffer wrote: While it is absolutely hilarious to see Artosis rage out of game via avenues like state of the game podcast, it is completely terrible to see him rage in a tournament game like this. He is a fucking GOM employee now. Fucker has to man up and say GL HF followed by silence until GG.
Learn some manners, artosis.
Drewbie is 100% correct in talking back. He gets thrashed on by IdrA and Artosis all the time. I didn't see the games, but judging from reading this thread, Artosis played like shit.
P.S. I am a zerg player
idra and artosis just love crying together every night about siege tanks and reapers.
On September 05 2010 09:39 QueueQueue wrote: Edit: how does the 2 minute rule effect re-game?
If players drop before two minutes in game there will be a re-game. But after the second time it's def win. Suppose after two minutes, the opposing player can choose to take the def win.
He drops multiple times in every tournament he enters. That, plus his history of cheating, makes me wish people would just start taking free wins from him.
On September 05 2010 09:41 Donner wrote: solution for this is so simple most of the times. dust of your gfx card fan, get a new fan for 4$, configure the fan speed in catalyst control center etc...
yeah but some people aren't comfortable opening their computers and if they fuck up they can fry their entire motherboard
On September 05 2010 09:42 Shikyo wrote: yeah but some people aren't comfortable opening their computers and if they fuck up they can fry their entire motherboard
No. The video card only touches the motherboard on one side. If you had both hands filled with static electricity from rubbing balloons on your hair and were holding a bottle of water upside down using only your teeth, you could probably fry your motherboard though.
Seriously, if it scares him to replace a $4 fan, remove the video card from the case, and then replace the fan, and then put it back. You never even touch the motherboard that way.
On September 05 2010 09:41 bokeevboke wrote: Nice of KiwiKaki,
but really it should be decided by admins -_-
I agree. The problem with giving the player the option is that it puts them in an awkward situation. A lot of people care about their image in the community and take the mannered route, even if they actually want the win. Having the admins decide removes that obligation to re-game.
Silver vs last shadow when LS dropped silver gave the regame. Then silver dropped next game and LS took the win. Wow why did Kiwi give a re to such a player?
Edit: Didn't matter Kiwi just rolled over him with 4 gate on that game.
TLS should be kicked from the tourny. Based on what he's done this tourny against Machine and Kiwi, plus what he did to Silver in that other tourny, he shouldn't even be invited anymore unless he changes something.
Not only is it absurd, it only demonstrates how much of a tool he is by not giving others the chance they all continue to give him.
On September 05 2010 09:42 Shikyo wrote: yeah but some people aren't comfortable opening their computers and if they fuck up they can fry their entire motherboard
No. The video card only touches the motherboard on one side. If you had both hands filled with static electricity from rubbing balloons on your hair and were holding a bottle of water upside down using only your teeth, you could probably fry your motherboard though.
Seriously, if it scares him to replace a $4 fan, remove the video card from the case, and then replace the fan, and then put it back. You never even touch the motherboard that way.
static electricity is the problem yes, and you need much less than that. My father actually fried his a few years ago without doing anything special I guess :/ For a person who's never opened his computer before it can be frightening
On September 05 2010 08:39 Lucius2 wrote: when exactly was zerg the best race in the beta!?
Errr you don't remember when mass roach > all?
Um no. Mass roach was indeed strong in >LATE GAME< the problem here is that Zerg doesen't make it to >LATE GAME< most of their games, due to their extremely weak early game and early-mid game. (Numerous factors play to this.)
Zerg was never ''strong'', T and P just learned how to abuse their strenghts better against Zerg, that's all. Dimaga may have made Zerg look strong, but he always seemed one step ahead of everyone else and is an extremely skilled player. (Like IEM EU showed.)
Anyways, yeah, lack of Zergs is getting sad. =[] But what can you do?
Anyways, tuned in most of the games, been enjoying most of the games, Machine played exceptionally well.
Yep, changing the Roach supply to 1 was a very critical mistake. Back then, Zerg was the best race in the endgame while sucking at all points before(how it should be). Now Zerg is merely able to compete in the lategame after being completely useless for the first 10-15 minutes. It really was a bad change.
i think its ridiculous how when zerg was the strongest race and terrans/protoss refused to do anything creative(apart from a few good seeds like Jinro with his reaper into ghost opening which as effective as it was for some reason everyone else refused to implement) and all that happened was a million patches that nerfed zerg over the course of a few months. Now zerg is told to "use nydus" for half a year and no end to this insanity is in sight.
I agree its funny how terran/protoss were complaining and all that and like you said zerg to nerfed hardcore and now its opposite and terran/protoss's are telling zergs to be more creative when they couldn't do it themselves? Hypocrisy at its best
Although I feel Artosis did play pretty bad against drewbie he never really transitioned or anything and losing all those mutas in that last game was bad let alone letting drewbie kill 4 bases before stomping the army. It wasn't balance that lost Artosis the game it was his playing.
i didnt see the match but there is very little you can do to stop marauders from killing ur hatcheries. You have to pretty much take mapcontrol during early midgame and keep it throughout. Depending on the map of course. But hard, very hard. Funny, however, seeing all this marauder mobility vs zerg immobility when it is we, zerg, who are supposed to abuse terran immobility. What?
If you saw the game and armies and where they were you would know it was Artosis being dumb not because of how strong marauder are . (I am a zerg player btw).
It was ARtosis's playing all game that cost him not balance heh.
On September 05 2010 09:49 On_Slaught wrote: TLS should be kicked from the tourny. Based on what he's done this tourny against Machine and Kiwi, plus what he did to Silver in that other tourny, he shouldn't even be invited anymore unless he changes something.
Not only is it absurd, it only demonstrates how much of a tool he is by not giving others the chance they all continue to give him.
This all has been known for about 4 years now, I'm not sure why people are like that.
^ Yeah you can't take that away from him. He did offer Machine the first game but Machine was nice enough to give him a chance and so did KiWiKaKi, so you can't really blame the guy.
i really dont get how anybody can be such a tool as ls was when denying silver the regame that silver had just given him. since this incident, i personally would never give him a regame. but kiwi is clearly the superior player and he was up 1-0, so it was very unlikely to fall back on him...
On September 05 2010 09:49 On_Slaught wrote: TLS should be kicked from the tourny. Based on what he's done this tourny against Machine and Kiwi, plus what he did to Silver in that other tourny, he shouldn't even be invited anymore unless he changes something.
Not only is it absurd, it only demonstrates how much of a tool he is by not giving others the chance they all continue to give him.
This all has been known for about 4 years now, I'm not sure why people are like that.
On September 05 2010 09:49 On_Slaught wrote: TLS should be kicked from the tourny. Based on what he's done this tourny against Machine and Kiwi, plus what he did to Silver in that other tourny, he shouldn't even be invited anymore unless he changes something.
This was not an invite tournament. He got in by winning some online qualifier, so nothing they can do about it really.
On September 05 2010 09:55 GenoZStriker wrote: ^ Yeah you can't take that away from him. He did offer Machine the first game but Machine was nice enough to give him a chance and so did KiWiKaKi, so you can't really blame the guy.
KiWiKaKi's FF's in game 4 (of a BO3 surprisingly ) gave me such a nerdgasm. Blocking those SCV's from repairing was so pimp. Can't wait to see more play from him in this tournament.
On September 05 2010 10:02 Xeris wrote: Group A is going to be interesting O_O! I wonder what IEM's policy on tiebreaks is? Because there could be like 4 different tiebreak situations.
To everyone saying Lastshadow (ajtls) should be kicked from the tournament for abusing drops - you are mistaken.
I know him personally. His computer cuts out all the time - in practice games, ladder, and unfortunately... tournaments.
It is a frustrating issue with his computer that he has been trying to resolve for some time.
I respectfully understand that, given his rocky past, it can be easy to jump to such conclusions; but please be assured that he does not drop on purpose.
Please know that I am not Lastshadow. He did not ask me to write this. I am writing as someone who can vouch for his computer's instability as I am a friend of his.
On September 05 2010 10:14 IdrA wrote: why was this called a no show? i told esl weeks ago i wouldnt be playing, i pm'd wolf 4-5 days ago that i wouldnt be playing. beef finally sends out the information emails 1 day beforehand and i reply that i will not be playing.
iem usa is actually the least professional organization i have ever seen.
Interesting...yeah "no show" didn't sound right considering everyone knows you are busy with GSL...
On September 05 2010 10:14 IdrA wrote: why was this called a no show? i told esl weeks ago i wouldnt be playing, i pm'd wolf 4-5 days ago that i wouldnt be playing. beef finally sends out the information emails 1 day beforehand and i reply that i will not be playing.
iem usa is actually the least professional organization i have ever seen.
LOL, that's hilarious. Some serious miscommunication going on at IEM.
On September 05 2010 10:03 SUGGY wrote: some clarification on the rules for a tiebreaker would be great. the rules seem like they are for counterstrike or something
It usually depends. If two people tie, the winner between the two gets the highest seed and if it means him advancing then that's what will happen. If three people tie, they look at map difference (If two players have the same map difference, they look at direct results). It usually never gets too extreme.
You would think that someone who plays computer games at a professional level would have the intelligence/cash/sponsorship to buy a computer that doesn't crap out during said gaming.....
not buying it
On September 05 2010 10:15 Nairul wrote: To everyone saying Lastshadow (ajtls) should be kicked from the tournament for abusing drops - you are mistaken.
I know him personally. His computer cuts out all the time - in practice games, ladder, and unfortunately... tournaments.
It is a frustrating issue with his computer that he has been trying to resolve for some time.
I respectfully understand that, given his rocky past, it can be easy to jump to such conclusions; but please be assured that he does not drop on purpose.
Please know that I am not Lastshadow. He did not ask me to write this. I am writing as someone who can vouch for his computer's instability as I am a friend of his.
On September 05 2010 10:25 wwwzugzugorc wrote: You would think that someone who plays computer games at a professional level would have the intelligence/cash/sponsorship to buy a computer that doesn't crap out during said gaming.....
On September 05 2010 10:15 Nairul wrote: To everyone saying Lastshadow (ajtls) should be kicked from the tournament for abusing drops - you are mistaken.
I know him personally. His computer cuts out all the time - in practice games, ladder, and unfortunately... tournaments.
It is a frustrating issue with his computer that he has been trying to resolve for some time.
I respectfully understand that, given his rocky past, it can be easy to jump to such conclusions; but please be assured that he does not drop on purpose.
Please know that I am not Lastshadow. He did not ask me to write this. I am writing as someone who can vouch for his computer's instability as I am a friend of his.
Thank you.
Because starcraft 2 players makes so much money? Because you immediatly go out and buy a new computer if you start dropping out of games?
I still think it sounds like an overheating issue, he needs a better cooling system. His hardware might have gone bad but most likely to an overheating issue by the sounds of it. He dropped twice within a short period of time when he got done saying it never happens more than once an hour. Plus the first one was a bluescreen more evidence of an overheating issue.
So when he does get replacement parts(he said he had replacements on the way for the faulty parts), he really should look into getting a better case, or a better heatsink, liquid cooling, improving the air flow in his room. SOMETHING to improve the temperature of his system.
Edit: Plus drewbie's computer is pretty shitty and hes been winning a lot so yeah not really a given that just since he's doing well he has enough for a new computer.
A basic overheating problem is like the world's simplest and easiest thing to diagnose and fix. Step 1: Open case. Step 2: Position fan to blow into case. Step 3: Profit. Not trying to troubleshoot for him, but if you play seriously I'm not sure how you don't attempt to diagnose a computer problem that is blatantly reoccurring.
On September 05 2010 09:41 Donner wrote: solution for this is so simple most of the times. dust of your gfx card fan, get a new fan for 4$, configure the fan speed in catalyst control center etc...
yeah but some people aren't comfortable opening their computers and if they fuck up they can fry their entire motherboard
Pop side of case off, spray everything with can of compressed air, close case. Only a complete idiot could find a way to mess up their computer doing something as simple as that. You don't even have to touch anything actually inside the comp.
On September 05 2010 10:29 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: I still think it sounds like an overheating issue, he needs a better cooling system. His hardware might have gone bad but most likely to an overheating issue by the sounds of it. He dropped twice within a short period of time when he got done saying it never happens more than once an hour. Plus the first one was a bluescreen more evidence of an overheating issue.
So when he does get replacement parts(he said he had replacements on the way for the faulty parts), he really should look into getting a better case, or a better heatsink, liquid cooling, improving the air flow in his room. SOMETHING to improve the temperature of his system.
Edit: Plus drewbie's computer is pretty shitty and hes been winning a lot so yeah not really a given that just since he's doing well he has enough for a new computer.
bluescreen is a very clear sign of his graphics card frying, it's probably dead already
On September 05 2010 10:25 wwwzugzugorc wrote: You would think that someone who plays computer games at a professional level would have the intelligence/cash/sponsorship to buy a computer that doesn't crap out during said gaming.....
not buying it
On September 05 2010 10:15 Nairul wrote: To everyone saying Lastshadow (ajtls) should be kicked from the tournament for abusing drops - you are mistaken.
I know him personally. His computer cuts out all the time - in practice games, ladder, and unfortunately... tournaments.
It is a frustrating issue with his computer that he has been trying to resolve for some time.
I respectfully understand that, given his rocky past, it can be easy to jump to such conclusions; but please be assured that he does not drop on purpose.
Please know that I am not Lastshadow. He did not ask me to write this. I am writing as someone who can vouch for his computer's instability as I am a friend of his.
Thank you.
Because starcraft 2 players makes so much money? Because you immediatly go out and buy a new computer if you start dropping out of games?
it costs what 600 bucks to make a computer that runs SC2 fine? thats clearly sooo much money.
Well if your computer craps out all the time, don't sign up to tournaments until u fix it? It's annoying for every1.
On September 05 2010 10:52 PanzerDragoon wrote: Only on teamliquid does a 4 front simultaneous drop take "no skill"
Do you all read what you type before hitting post message
click D click on desired minimap location. x4.>< the problem is a)unlike SCBW its too easy to rebound from losing those marauders b) no scourage. c) cant afford to keep infestors or whatnot everywhere because zerg army is so weak split and u need to keep everything together.
On September 05 2010 11:00 Neoattitude wrote: they probably should stop inviting Artosis, hasn't really won a match in all the tournament he was invited.
Nobody was invited everyone qualified through the tournaments, Artosis earned his right to play in this it's up to him to follow through.
On September 05 2010 10:29 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: I still think it sounds like an overheating issue, he needs a better cooling system. His hardware might have gone bad but most likely to an overheating issue by the sounds of it. He dropped twice within a short period of time when he got done saying it never happens more than once an hour. Plus the first one was a bluescreen more evidence of an overheating issue.
So when he does get replacement parts(he said he had replacements on the way for the faulty parts), he really should look into getting a better case, or a better heatsink, liquid cooling, improving the air flow in his room. SOMETHING to improve the temperature of his system.
Edit: Plus drewbie's computer is pretty shitty and hes been winning a lot so yeah not really a given that just since he's doing well he has enough for a new computer.
hahaha alan i've got all the parts except 1 for my new comp, i'm just waiting for a motherboard to be delivered that i won a month ago in the ITL grand prix :D
On September 05 2010 11:23 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: Yeah bother ESU about that, been trying to figure out whats going on there but we're not entirely sure.
On September 05 2010 10:02 Xeris wrote: Group A is going to be interesting O_O! I wonder what IEM's policy on tiebreaks is? Because there could be like 4 different tiebreak situations.
Do those include map difference as well?
I pretty much mapped out all the possible scenarios, and there are more than 3 that would result in tiebreaks between 3 people that have the same record + individual match record.
In that instance they might do a playoff though those situations don't come up often, I really don't know what their policy is was a little difficult to find their consolidated rules because usually they're different per each event and have their own page.
The problem is in a 3 way tiebreak each player might have wound up beating another player in a rock paper scissors type of a situation.
They all have the same overall game score but in reality what happens is player A beat player B, player B beat player C, and Player C beat Player A then what happens.
On September 05 2010 11:34 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: The problem is in a 3 way tiebreak each player might have wound up beating another player in a rock paper scissors type of a situation.
They all have the same overall game score but in reality what happens is player A beat player B, player B beat player C, and Player C beat Player A then what happens.
The three-way-tie will most likely be best-of-1 and they'll do it again till one player eventually crashes to the other two. Atleast that's what Warcraft 3 tournaments used to do and one player usually fell in the second 3wt. I do not remember the last time seeing an IEM come down to this though so tomorrow we'll wait and see how it get solved.
Kind of sad that this totally eclipses GSL for me because of shitty streams/vods and no replays. That said it makes it easy not to care about Kespa vs Whoever when the rest of the world is moving on.
Thats kiwi vs Huk not Machine vs Huk, plus the fact that Kiwi sent in the picture of him with the monkey is AMAZING I didnt realize that was his profile pic on ESL lol.
On September 05 2010 10:52 PanzerDragoon wrote: Only on teamliquid does a 4 front simultaneous drop take "no skill"
Do you all read what you type before hitting post message
click D click on desired minimap location. x4.>< the problem is a)unlike SCBW its too easy to rebound from losing those marauders b) no scourage. c) cant afford to keep infestors or whatnot everywhere because zerg army is so weak split and u need to keep everything together.
Meh. Its extremely difficult to rebound from losing those marauders. Lose them, Z makes a ling-infestor push at your base... You don't have enough marauders to stop the inevitable combo of Fungal Growths.
IMO, infestors are one of the most underused units in the entire Z arsenal. I'm mid-high level Plat right now and I hardly see ANYONE use them in ZvT.
On September 05 2010 14:14 Sprouter wrote: sucks for idra but i don't see why the IEM has to accommodate for 1 person. it's not fair for everyone else who shows up on time.
he told them he wasnt going to be able to play, he was busy. doubt that he expected them to wait for him
In game 2 of his series against Artosis, Drewbie says: "Maybe you would do better if you made more than 3 units" as he destroys Artosis's base with mass Marauders, Medics, and Thor. See, Artosis, only Terran is allowed to mass 3 units and A+move to victory.
Group A : Kinda surprised Fenix is on top right now. Either way he and a Protoss (Suggy or TTOne) moves on so I'm happy. Hope it's TTOne though. Bubba's play didn't really impress me that much. Hope he does well tomorrow.
Group B : All tied up. I really hope HuK and KiWiKaKi do well. I think HuK can beat ajtls. KiWiKaKi and Machine will be close though probably. Could go either way.
Group C : I'm hoping QXC and MurDeR go on so I think MurDeR has to beat QXC and ThisIsJimmy needs to beat Silver for that to happen lol.
Group D : Expected Drewbie to come out of this group easily. And as CauthonLuck has to play Artosis in his final game he should have no trouble moving on as well. Artosis has not impressed me either to be honest.
I'm predicting that Fenix, SUGGY, HuK, KiWiKaKi, QXC, Silver, Drewbie, and CauthonLuck move on. Even though there are few other people I want to move on.
On September 05 2010 10:52 PanzerDragoon wrote: Only on teamliquid does a 4 front simultaneous drop take "no skill"
Do you all read what you type before hitting post message
click D click on desired minimap location. x4.>< the problem is a)unlike SCBW its too easy to rebound from losing those marauders b) no scourage. c) cant afford to keep infestors or whatnot everywhere because zerg army is so weak split and u need to keep everything together.
Meh. Its extremely difficult to rebound from losing those marauders. Lose them, Z makes a ling-infestor push at your base... You don't have enough marauders to stop the inevitable combo of Fungal Growths.
IMO, infestors are one of the most underused units in the entire Z arsenal. I'm mid-high level Plat right now and I hardly see ANYONE use them in ZvT.
it's a macro issue. I'm not gonna argue that even middling diamond players struggle with macro. But once you touch the tip of the iceberg it doesnt matter as much.
On September 05 2010 10:52 PanzerDragoon wrote: Only on teamliquid does a 4 front simultaneous drop take "no skill"
Do you all read what you type before hitting post message
click D click on desired minimap location. x4.>< the problem is a)unlike SCBW its too easy to rebound from losing those marauders b) no scourage. c) cant afford to keep infestors or whatnot everywhere because zerg army is so weak split and u need to keep everything together.
Meh. Its extremely difficult to rebound from losing those marauders. Lose them, Z makes a ling-infestor push at your base... You don't have enough marauders to stop the inevitable combo of Fungal Growths.
IMO, infestors are one of the most underused units in the entire Z arsenal. I'm mid-high level Plat right now and I hardly see ANYONE use them in ZvT.
I'm high Diamond and I use Infestors in every ZvT, most Zergs do so too. Their imo absolute neccessity against biomech because otherwise you will just get kited to death. (Or tanks will shoot them banelings while they chase the bio.)
But other then that, they don't have much use, and fungal growth, especially when T has medivacs, doesen't really do much damage at all. You only use it to stop units from moving so you don't get kited.
Machine's 6 pool vs HuK, with epic commentary! They don't even notice/expect it until after the fact.
They even had the production tab up and could see no drones building and the spawning pool go down, but the whole time they were talking about HuK's forward pylon..
Yeah, that's why they aren't exactly the best commentators despite their good quality. The stream went crazy when they saw the pool on 6 and they saw it to but were like it's fairly early pool when it's the fastest pool you can get.
Machine's 6 pool vs HuK, with epic commentary! They don't even notice/expect it until after the fact.
They even had the production tab up and could see no drones building and the spawning pool go down, but the whole time they were talking about HuK's forward pylon..
But it was an AWESOME pylon.
But yeah, it seemed like they was focusing on what Huk was doing not paying that much attention on Machine in the beginning.
On September 06 2010 01:51 iamtt1 wrote: im still waiting on an esl admin to clarify the tiebreaking system
People were asking for it throughout the whole last competition as well. I do believe the first tie breaker is head to head, and then then win/loss ratio. But don't quote me on that.
The tie breaker will depend on a lot of things. Most importantly the map difference and direct results. If three players do end up tying with the same map difference then I have no idea.
when one of the commentators finally notices the spawning pool he says "he was able to see the spawning pool be thrown down..opting to throw the spawning pool before any gas so any speedlings will not be as fast as possible here"
LOL wtf @ their reaction when zerglings come out HAHAHAhahahahaha
We're live on http://www.ustream.com/channel/iccup-tv with TTOne(P) vs. Fenix(T) in a FnaticMSI team BATTLE! TTOne is fighting for his tournament life, but Fenix is up 2 series to 0 from yesterday!
Scrap Station is up first. =D
Tiebreaker rules were also announced and clarified. First tiebreaker is total games LOST, for example a 4-3 record would advance over a 4-4 record. Head to head record is next, for example if HuK and Machine were both 4-4, Machine would advance due to their head to head record where Machine was the winner.
Crazy people in here.. Gunrun & Martijn are amazing casters +they are the kings of stream Quality. Now Gunrun needs to get his awesome voice into that caster tournament & spill some cool beans! Game 1 Bubba vs Suggy was awesome too.
Ok I'm just going to spoil it because the games were not that great anyways. SUGGY outplayed Bubba and now he is almost guaranteed to make it through the group. We'll just have to wait on TT1 vs. Fenix to see what the outcome will be.
That delayed 2-gate push is actually pretty hard to stop due to the shitty economy from going roach den first... obviously neither of the GLHF.tv has played zerg much.
On September 06 2010 03:26 teamsolid wrote: That delayed 2-gate push is actually pretty hard to stop due to the shitty economy from going roach den first... obviously neither of the GLHF.tv has played zerg much.
exactely, imho more protoss shoul try this out.. you can easily deny zerg an expo this way and always have the possibility to expand yourself. Suggy really played Bubba in game 2 after that Fe in 1st game.
On September 06 2010 03:17 boesthius wrote: As cool as the glhf guys are, the commentary for the huk vs machine game 1 was so atrocious. Amazing quality stream, really nice guys, but not the best commentary. How can you not notice a 6pool and then comment on the fact that speedlings won't be out as fast as possible? Please pay attention to the game~
Yeah, I agree it's was very strange to watch, like they have never seen a 6 pool or a 4 pool in bw. They were so surprised Huk could not stop it lol, he built his first pylon outside his base...
I don't like being negative, but i'm trying to watch the machine and kiwikaki games but the casting and camera work is making it very very difficult to.
Sick play by Huk. Amazing patience on Steppes after being bunkered and then again, with the constant pull back and reinforcement!!! I feel bad for Machine though. No zergs! (prays for Idra to play in these mini cups!)
On September 06 2010 05:13 Zzoram wrote: What is going on? The results spoiler is confusing and I don't even see any of the players in any of the groups playing on the stream.
The stream is STC vs Tester or something?
iCCup is streaming a BO3 series of STC and Tester during the down time. Just to keep people entertained. They're really good games.
In the Qxc vs murder game, the camera is missing soooo sooo much. They sat and watched four marauders clean up some scvs while a major engagement began, and were still staring at the marauders when the major engagement finished (I could only tell because i saw all the blips on the minimap move together and disappear). This happened multiple times in the same game, and it happened a lot in the machine vs kiwikaki games.
In the second ThisIsJimmy vs Silver game Jimmy was able to snipe Silver's hidden medivac which was en route to Silver's main. How did Jimmy know Silver was sending that medivac in that direction? I wasn't paying close attention at that moment so I might have missed something...
Murder was tremendous - QXC's tvt is the most impressive I've seen, but Murder did a great job of keeping a leg up on macro the entire series. Plenty of mistakes made by both players, but he's definitely one to keep an eye on.
Hope everything is alright with PainUser. As for Artosis, wait for details guys. Something serious could have come up unexpectedly. No one knows yet. If he did just decide to not show though, that would be very poor of him.
On September 06 2010 07:48 alexanderzero wrote: Why does everyone think Artosis is trying to BM? There are plenty of possibilities as to why he hasn't shown up. Maybe he is stuck in traffic. D:
On September 06 2010 07:48 alexanderzero wrote: Why does everyone think Artosis is trying to BM? There are plenty of possibilities as to why he hasn't shown up. Maybe he is stuck in traffic. D:
Based on his behavior in the series last night it wouldn't be surprising that he intentionally no-showed.
dras: He's currently streaming an unrelated replay.
Regarding Artosis, forfeiting is understandable given he's probably busy with the GSL stuff for tomorrow. Not telling anyone he was not planning on showing up, however, is really shitty of him.
Its pretty sad that idra didn't show up for this. I was looking forward to meeting him in NY and having a possible interview with him. But I do understand his tight schedule and priorities.
I hope great players make it through the top 8. I wish them all the best!
On September 06 2010 07:48 alexanderzero wrote: Why does everyone think Artosis is trying to BM? There are plenty of possibilities as to why he hasn't shown up. Maybe he is stuck in traffic. D:
Based on his behavior in the series last night it wouldn't be surprising that he intentionally no-showed.
People act like his behaviour was outrageous when in fact it was like 2 off-hand comments made in slight frustration. Wasn't even BM ;/
On September 06 2010 07:48 alexanderzero wrote: Why does everyone think Artosis is trying to BM? There are plenty of possibilities as to why he hasn't shown up. Maybe he is stuck in traffic. D:
Based on his behavior in the series last night it wouldn't be surprising that he intentionally no-showed.
People act like his behaviour was outrageous when in fact it was like 2 off-hand comments made in slight frustration. Wasn't even BM ;/
no it wasn't BM (well no gg was slightly bm), it was just frustration at his own mistakes. he had an army perfectly large enough to take care of the terran counterpart but instead of engaging, he just sat back and let 2 of his expansions die. no idea what he was thinking but when people make stupid blunders, the immediate reaction is to blames others hence the comment about blizzard.
On September 06 2010 07:48 alexanderzero wrote: Why does everyone think Artosis is trying to BM? There are plenty of possibilities as to why he hasn't shown up. Maybe he is stuck in traffic. D:
Based on his behavior in the series last night it wouldn't be surprising that he intentionally no-showed.
People act like his behaviour was outrageous when in fact it was like 2 off-hand comments made in slight frustration. Wasn't even BM ;/
no it wasn't BM (well no gg was slightly bm), it was just frustration at his own mistakes. he had an army perfectly large enough to take care of the terran counterpart but instead of engaging, he just sat back and let 2 of his expansions die. no idea what he was thinking but when people make stupid blunders, the immediate reaction is to blames others hence the comment about blizzard.
indeed he wasn't playing good in any sense of the word, in that game it was diamond level play from his side, and that says alot.
But people act like "Oh my gawd, Artosis threw a temper tantrum, he is so BM lolz lolz lolz" It's the same with Murder - QXC and the maphack accusation, there is like 2 times were you go "That is rather suspect" yet most people, hell even TL people are going "OH MY GOD, IT WAS SOOO OBVIOUS! I spotted like 40 times were it was clear he was maphacking!!!" It gets on my nerves.
It's not so much the BM or not, the ONLY things he said was bitching about the state of zerg. He didn't make a single comment that didn't relate to that. Including never GGing when losing. Not too surprising he decided to no-show.
People were accusing you of map hacking, MurDeR, in the stream. It was at several points during the first game, when you canceled to get Raven in 2nd game, and when you had the marine on the tower to spot the drop in the 3rd game. Game sense is underrated.
On September 06 2010 10:02 Voronoff wrote: People were accusing you of map hacking, MurDeR, in the stream. It was at several points during the first game, when you canceled to get Raven in 2nd game, and when you had the marine on the tower to spot the drop in the 3rd game. Game sense is underrated.
I just watched the replays of g1 & g2. In g1 MurDeR cancelled the Banshee for a Raven some Seconds after he saw a Scan from qxc above the starport with tech. We all know that starport with tech in early game can be two things, Banshee or Raven. A cloaked Banshee can only be successful if it is not expected, so I guess MurDeR decided against Banshee since qxc saw his tech. MurDeR was not getting Cloak at that moment, so the decision was not that big.He decided to skip the harass plans and get the Raven, which is more defensive. In g2 he went directly for a Raven. Since g2 was on Scrap (short air distance), this makes sense to me.
On September 06 2010 10:02 Voronoff wrote: People were accusing you of map hacking, MurDeR, in the stream. It was at several points during the first game, when you canceled to get Raven in 2nd game, and when you had the marine on the tower to spot the drop in the 3rd game. Game sense is underrated.
I just watched the replays of g1 & g2. In g1 MurDeR cancelled the Banshee for a Raven some Seconds after he saw a Scan from qxc above the starport with tech. We all know that starport with tech in early game can be two things, Banshee or Raven. A cloaked Banshee can only be successful if it is not expected, so I guess MurDeR decided against Banshee since qxc saw his tech. MurDeR was not getting Cloak at that moment, so the decision was not that big.He decided to skip the harass plans and get the Raven, which is more defensive. In g2 he went directly for a Raven. Since g2 was on Scrap (short air distance), this makes sense to me.
Nothing suspicious to see. Just good game sense.
It sounds like it was just noobs on the stream automatically thinking of map hacking or cheating of some sort. If they knew murder at all they would know he would never even think about doing that. But whatever was very fun to watch and Murder made me oh so proud
On September 06 2010 10:02 Voronoff wrote: People were accusing you of map hacking, MurDeR, in the stream. It was at several points during the first game, when you canceled to get Raven in 2nd game, and when you had the marine on the tower to spot the drop in the 3rd game. Game sense is underrated.
Mostly it was when he went and killed the banshee with no vision of it in the third game.
very disappointed in Artosis.. I know it's probably hard to work on NA schedules from Korea but being a, for better or worse, prominent member of the foreigner SC2 scene, he should know how important it is to honor the integrity of a tournament and not give people free wins
On September 06 2010 10:02 Voronoff wrote: People were accusing you of map hacking, MurDeR, in the stream. It was at several points during the first game, when you canceled to get Raven in 2nd game, and when you had the marine on the tower to spot the drop in the 3rd game. Game sense is underrated.
Mostly it was when he went and killed the banshee with no vision of it in the third game.
Ok, I watched the replay of g3. MurDeR saw the Starport with tech while it was producing. You can see him watching the starport while he was harassing with his banshee. He even made some mouse clicks right next to it. That was 30 game-seconds before the Banshee of QXC tried to sneak in. I guess MurDeR expected this banshee and made a guess that it would fly on this typical path to attack the mineral line from behind.
Later in the game he managed to scout a medivac with one marine standing at the watch tower. He concluded that this could only be a drop attempt and predicted it would happen at the ridge next to his natural. So he ordered some forces to defend.
Nothing suspicious here, just great game sense and especially a great evaluation of scouting information.
I had the results tab slightly messed up, and I apologize. CauthonLuck went 2-1 against PainUser, not 2-0. As a result, PainUser controls his own destiny against drewbie tonight.
Here are the possible results and advancements to New York: + Show Spoiler +
PainUser 2-0 drewbie, PainUser and CauthonLuck advance. PainUser 2-1 drewbie, creating a three-way tie between all three Terran players, I believe forcing a playoff game. drewbie 2-1 PainUser, drewbie and CauthonLuck advance. drewbie 2-0 PainUser, drewbie and CauthonLuck advance.
On September 06 2010 10:02 Voronoff wrote: People were accusing you of map hacking, MurDeR, in the stream. It was at several points during the first game, when you canceled to get Raven in 2nd game, and when you had the marine on the tower to spot the drop in the 3rd game. Game sense is underrated.
Mostly it was when he went and killed the banshee with no vision of it in the third game.
Ok, I watched the replay of g3. MurDeR saw the Starport with tech while it was producing. You can see him watching the starport while he was harassing with his banshee. He even made some mouse clicks right next to it. That was 30 game-seconds before the Banshee of QXC tried to sneak in. I guess MurDeR expected this banshee and made a guess that it would fly on this typical path to attack the mineral line from behind.
Later in the game he managed to scout a medivac with one marine standing at the watch tower. He concluded that this could only be a drop attempt and predicted it would happen at the ridge next to his natural. So he ordered some forces to defend.
Nothing suspicious here, just great game sense and especially a great evaluation of scouting information.
You think people that hang in the GSL chat think that far ahead?
Easy way to avoid the endless tiebreak situation: 3 player double elim bracket. Hang on here while I explain it. Players are randomly sorted as they would be into a four player bracket with one bye.
Player 1 and player 2 get matched up in round 1, player 3 gets a bye and waits in the next round.
Let's say player 2 loses he waits by the side while Player 1 plays player 3.
If player 1 wins then he's waiting while Player 2 and Player 3 play eachother and the winner of that plays Player 1 again for the top of the group and you have two players who are obviously the two winners who advance.
On September 07 2010 09:34 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: Easy way to avoid the endless tiebreak situation: 3 player double elim bracket. Hang on here while I explain it. Players are randomly sorted as they would be into a four player bracket with one bye.
Player 1 and player 2 get matched up in round 1, player 3 gets a bye and waits in the next round.
Let's say player 2 loses he waits by the side while Player 1 plays player 3.
If player 1 wins then he's waiting while Player 2 and Player 3 play eachother and the winner of that plays Player 1 again for the top of the group and you have two players who are obviously the two winners who advance.
yeah but that scenario depends on one player winning twice in a row. if they all start winning one and losing one, it'll still be an endless loop.
No it's a bracket even if Player 1 wins then Player 3 beats him then it would be player 1 vs player 2 in the lower half of the bracket in order to play Player 3 again. You still wind up with a final result no matter what.
Player 1---- |Player 1-- Player 2---- | |Player 3 Player 3---- | |Player 3-- Bye---------
Losers Bracket
Player 2---- |Winner Player 1----
Each player will have to lose twice in order to be eliminated completely, and then Player 3 plays the winner of the bottom bracket for the top spot in group standings and the top seed #
edit: some luck involved in who draws the bye but not possible to have repeated tiebreak situations. You could even give the bye to the highest seeded of the three in the group anyway as another added advantage
They played the tiebreaker bo3's last night. I heard that drewbie and CauthonLuck are advancing, and I -think- these were the tiebreaker scores: + Show Spoiler +
On September 07 2010 10:31 FuriousJodo wrote: Obviously they should do a 3-way FFA, whoever wins that gets Seeded according to Raelcun's system and then we continue on in that bracket.
I think round-robin will be easier (reduce the need of tie-breaks) if players are required to play all their games in the series. Example: in a best of 3, players will still need to play their 3rd game in case of 2:0. This way it's easier to tell the score difference (just like in football leagues).
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wow.com/media/2009/03/intelextrememasters.jpg)
