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On September 02 2010 07:23 thopol wrote:
edited out
I haven't read any posts after this was posted, but this is hard to read. I believe I could have put together a Global English Streaming Solution that would cost them a FRACTION of what they are probably putting into this. A company like UStream would probably jump at the chance to be involved with something as big as this, and with the already massive amounts of community casters, it wouldn't be that difficult to provide talent.
From a production standpoint, it might not be the same quality as a Korean SCBW Broadcast, but if we had access to the studio (which already exists and isn't really a cost at this point) - it would have been easy. If they were simply handing the feed over to our production equipment and we used the same thing we use to stream from LAN events and the like... you could integrate English Speaking Commentary with EASE. This is the kind of thing that we've been doing for the past 8 years... Why? Cause we don't have a fucking TV station to put it on.
I don't even understand. It's a cultural thing surely. North America / Europe... we seem to GET IT when it comes to the streaming and coverage part, and it's a shame they just don't know to leverage those resources. Maybe it's just the fact that they don't know this stuff exists... but I find it hard to believe that someone over there isn't privy to the numbers that "foreigners" have been pulling during SC2 streams, show matches, and competitions.
It's really really sad. I simply feel foolish for having put any level of confidence that they could stream globally... but it's my professional opinion that they must have no idea how they could deliver a high-quality stream with LITTLE cost to them. Cause that part I bolded over there... that's unfortunately just a lack of knowledge. And now "outside of Korea" is gonna pay (literally).
This is a major missed opportunity for both GOM, the community, SC2, and Blizzard.
Hope there's room... I'm getting on the train.
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On September 02 2010 07:23 thopol wrote:
EDIT: I also woke up to find this in my inbox
Some of these informations, I was not allowed to mention on the post at TL. I trust you with this information because you have made a polite request despite your frustration and anger.
You know you are not just violating this person's trust but also violating their copyright by publishing this personal mail. Think about how this makes TL look.
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Psyonic Reaver or ICCUp has a pretty high quality stream, ask them to restream I guess.
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On September 02 2010 07:58 butterbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 07:23 thopol wrote:
EDIT: I also woke up to find this in my inbox
Some of these informations, I was not allowed to mention on the post at TL. I trust you with this information because you have made a polite request despite your frustration and anger.
You know you are not just violating this person's trust but also violating their copyright by publishing this personal mail. Think about how this makes TL look.
How can you copyright a message @inbox?
I think it is good that this get's out. The more we know about this stuff the better.
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If it's as bad as the email from -- states why the heck did Blizzard choose them to deal with?
Like defenders of the decision to charge money have said, it's a business and their aim is to make money. If they are bad at it then go bankrupt and gtfo the way so someone more competent can handle things.
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On September 02 2010 07:58 Vz0 wrote:
Psyonic Reaver or ICCUp has a pretty high quality stream, ask them to restream I guess.
Dude it will take us $12 million dollars to do that!
No wait...
We do it for free already 7 days a week...
Seriously sounds like GOM really needs to hire someone that has a clue how to run things on the American culture side of things.
This is so insane I don't even know what to think anymore. "Hey d00d, we spent too much money so it's time for you to cough up cause all the good sponsors are taken and we are left with shitty sponsors like Intel."
What the hell?
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Not paying a dime. I'd love to see the games coming out of Korea but I also greatly enjoy what we get out of the US/EU right now.
We have good players from around the world competing in tournaments that are high quality and free to watch with English commentary. Prize pools are only getting larger and interest in the West and EU for SC2 is enormous. Maybe this just means we'll start seeing more Korean pros pop up in things like the ESL and MLG - I think that would be awesome.
I agree with DJWheat btw - they already have a stream running, sending that info to even just something like uStream will cost them next to nothing, and they could easily get American/EU companies on board as sponsors if they actually wanted to try and make something out of it.
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That email is beautiful marketing strategic ploy, which is to have the community sympathize with GOM and the fact that their company is underwater. However, everything GOM is saying is making it seem as if they are the ones that have come up with the idea to charge for the stream and the vods, which in realty is false.
I am sure that since Activision/Blizzard has signed a contract with GOM, Blizzard will indeed be taking a chunk of the revenues for themselves, which in turn displays that Blizzard is most likely the reason these charges are being put out.
I am sure GOM could cast this event and make more than ample amount of money off the advertisements alone, however Blizzard chose to step in, backed by the money hungry stock holders, which just want to thicken their pockets and came up with this ridiculous concoction.
I seriously hope, the entire US population that plays this game, no I take that back, the entire population that is on TL does not pay one dime for this and shove it in their faces.
You pay for it, you make the rich richer and give them that much more power to abuse certain events like this now and in the future.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2010 07:23 thopol wrote:After sleeping on it I think the worst thing is how they think they can treat us. If it costs a fucking penny I'm not going to pay it. I'll support them by watching their ads but that is it. They sprung this on us and then flat out lied about being in dire financial straits with the Kpop event of the year booked and exclusive SC2 rights from Blizzard still warm in their portfolio. This is not the way to court an audience, it's trying to strongarm money away from people without much, just like they're doing to Kespa. I see right through the bastards. I can't believe that they would even try this shit... EDIT: I also woke up to find this in my inboxShow nested quote +Hi,
I'm glad to finaly recieve an email. I was not allowed to write the reason we are doing this form some reason. However for this email I will tell you honestly why such decision was made.
First of all many of you seem to think that there is no reason for you to pay when there are alternatives. Let me tell you, there won;t be any alternatives. All sites that have been streaming SC2 such as OGN or MBC have been banned from braodcasting GSL. What if someone puts them on utube or on any other source? They will be found and they too will be banned. What about Korean Gomtv site? All IP from outside Korea will be blocked.
I have reported your reaction rowards the policy and the decision makers are aware of it. Everyone including me thinks it would be much more profitable in the long run if we broadcast the streams without charge, at least for this season.
One thing that many foreigners, or even Koreans are not well aware of is that Gomtv hardly has enough reesources to broadcast it even within Korea. We are relatively new in the market and conventional gaming channel are hogging all the sponsors. Most sponsors think there s no need to sponsor SC2 when SC1 is doing just fine. Also our balance sheet has been on negative side for very long time. We almost thought of giving up the whole e-sports thing because KeSPA and other channels have been giving us very hard time until Blizzard signed exclusive contract with us.
We have 2 more seasons to run just this year and yet we are underfunded and understaffed. The expense to host a server in US and providing English stream was much higher than we had anticipated. Probably why conventional channels never tried to expand beyond Korea. We desperately need money if we are to improve oversea service at this stage, and gaining sponsors is easier said than done.
The choice left to us was to either not broadcast at all outside Korea or charge them. Charging 20$ for a season is not a choice we take willingly, but limiting GSL to only Koreans seems even less attractive.
Some of these informations, I was not allowed to mention on the post at TL. I trust you with this information because you have made a polite request despite your frustration and anger.
I personally feel very sorry to fans overseas about how thing turned out, but I do not mean to give up and I will do my best to have things improved for future GSL.
Yours sincerely
Nothing particularly new except the same things he did post on the forum. It seems like this fellow is very responsive, so if you have specific queries you might send him an email. EDIT2: If they are actually in the red and need to make a certain amount from this there are so many better ways to do it than gouging foreigners. A 50 cents per replay download from US and Korea could make more money. A 2 dollar pass from US and KOR would make more. Making more from advertisers would probably make more. Cutting costs would increase profits, meaning cut one of the kpop acts or something. Even if everything they are saying is true it still is a slap in the face to foreigners. ...maybe a less ambitious broadcasting schedule, maybe cutting back on the prize pool for future tournaments, maybe selling broadcasting rights for the tournament to MBC...
WTF are you doing? He is nice enough to give you this info and you post his name.
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On September 02 2010 08:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 07:58 Vz0 wrote:
Psyonic Reaver or ICCUp has a pretty high quality stream, ask them to restream I guess. Dude it will take us $12 million dollars to do that! No wait... We do it for free already 7 days a week... Seriously sounds like GOM really needs to hire someone that has a clue how to run things on the American culture side of things. This is so insane I don't even know what to think anymore. "Hey d00d, we spent too much money so it's time for you to cough up cause all the good sponsors are taken and we are left with shitty sponsors like Intel." What the hell?
they basically dont even try to make a coherent argument anymore. Could as well just have written "Hey dudes, time to fork over the dough!". If you get a 1 year ticket for 600 bucks there might come a thor mount for WoW with it.
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On September 02 2010 07:41 EleanorRIgby wrote:
there will be alternatives people
like what?
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On September 02 2010 08:05 koOma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 07:41 EleanorRIgby wrote:
there will be alternatives people like what?
like pirating the shit outta them?
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On September 01 2010 18:16 theonlyking wrote:
You might wanna consider offering a combined Live & VOD-ticket for the whole season, because I think a lot of people would be interested in that.
Considering your current prices are 19,95 $ for a live ticket and 29,95 $ for a VOD ticket, I'd say 40 bucks would be a decent price for a combined ticket!
Last season the combined ticket was $50 so I think splitting it up is a better deal.
I am kind of worried about this. I totally want them to succeed and be able to monetize this. I was totally going to subscribe for $50 if there was a GOM Season 4 and I think I will subscribe to the GSL. But I don't know if enough people will follow me. I wonder if it would be better to have the low quality be free for the first season so we could evangelize for it since a lot of people are coming into SC2 brand new and would not plop $50 to see Plott the Elder because they don't know how much better it is than other streams and there are new foreigner streams that are really awesome and free with Plott the Younger and such.
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Gumbeez, get a grip. Blizz has nothing to do with this. Theyre way more compeytent than this.
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On September 02 2010 08:06 diehilde wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 08:05 koOma wrote:On September 02 2010 07:41 EleanorRIgby wrote:
there will be alternatives people like what? like pirating the shit outta them?
Its funny... they say that they want to bring us coverage but then that they will track down everyone who is restreaming and ban them. Whats funnier is that the "only in korea" broadcasts that are being done in starcraft broodwar right now are actually quite available to those outside in korea via restreaming.
Those on TL user streams that are re-streaming it won't be able to apparently since GOM is now monitoring TL... so yeah... pirating...
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On September 02 2010 08:07 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 18:16 theonlyking wrote:
You might wanna consider offering a combined Live & VOD-ticket for the whole season, because I think a lot of people would be interested in that.
Considering your current prices are 19,95 $ for a live ticket and 29,95 $ for a VOD ticket, I'd say 40 bucks would be a decent price for a combined ticket! Last season the combined ticket was $50 so I think splitting it up is a better deal. I am kind of worried about this. I totally want them to succeed and be able to monetize this. I was totally going to subscribe for $50 if there was a GOM Season 4 and I think I will subscribe to the GSL. But I don't know if enough people will follow me. I wonder if it would be better to have the low quality be free for the first season so we could evangelize for it since a lot of people are coming into SC2 brand new and would not plop $50 to see Plott the Elder because they don't know how much better it is than other streams and there are new foreigner streams that are really awesome and free with Plott the Younger and such.
god ppl like you make me so angry... you are the reason we get all this ridiculous money grabbing crap from blizzard. You are the reason people like bobby kotick succeed in the gaming industry and nobody cares about the quality of games anymore.
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If there is a free Korean stream, it will likely be re-streamed, in which case GOMTV loses out, along with Tasteless and Artosis unfortunately.
If there is not a free Korean stream ... I anticipate a major crisis, perhaps enough to kill professional SC 2 in Korea. Remember, folks, GOMTV is the sole representative of SC 2 and Blizzard in Korea. If they fail, SC 2 will be set back for almost a year in Korea, from the several seasons already planned for the GSL. And even then it's not clear at all that Blizzard will re-negotiate with Kespa or other companies there. It's not like BW where Blizzard was effectively cut out of the loop. This time they're there and they're serious - I doubt there'll be any major scene in Korea without Blizzard's blessing.
To add, it seems that the dispute between GOMTV and Kespa threatens to implode the entire BW pro-scene, leading to the general disband of the pro-teams. It seems to be a genuine "the sky is falling" moment for SC in Korea.
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Welcome onto the train Wheat.
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On September 02 2010 07:52 Chronald wrote:
Look at the poll on the TL homepage.
85% of the people WILL NOT PAY for your matches. Have fun running yourselves into the ground Gretech...
I don't like what GomTV is doing and hope they will give in. But when it comes to poll and such on the internet people seam to changed their minds pretty quickly:
![[image loading]](http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6062/1258035395841.jpg)
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If they are so shafted for funding why don't they just lower the ridiculously huge prize pool they promised? Boo-hoo, funding the most financially straining multi-league tournament in the history of e-sports is turning out to be harder than expected... How on earth did they not see this coming? Passing the funding buck onto the fans is not the way to do it. We don't care if the prize pool is $170,000 or $150,000, it doesn't really matter to anybody but the gamers.
Furthermore the extreme discrepancy between the winnings of first and second place (I believe first place recieves something like $85,000, whereas second recieves only $25,000). If you just cut the first place prize money by $10,000 that's still EXTREMELY generous. I can't think of another tournament, ever, that had such a huge margin between 1st and 2nd place. I'm sure 1st place would be just as happy with $75,000, and then you could use the leftover to provide solid commentary to the fans without having to drain and alienate us.
On September 02 2010 08:11 fishyjoes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 07:52 Chronald wrote:
Look at the poll on the TL homepage.
85% of the people WILL NOT PAY for your matches. Have fun running yourselves into the ground Gretech... I don't like what GomTV is doing and hope they will give in. But when it comes to poll and such on the internet people seam to changed their minds pretty quickly:
That's totally different. They want dedicated servers, but they aren't just going to not play. It's much easier for me to just not watch this particular tournament, I can still watch every other tournament and play as much as I want without costing me a dime.
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EPT
