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On September 02 2010 02:50 ZlaSHeR wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.speedtest.net/result/934449946.png) 567 kb/s on gom's connection test. Open for discussion?
When you speed test your ISP based in your area off a speedtest pinging a server in the same area, you are bound to get much much better results than a speed test off a server an ocean and a half away. (Your connection is only going to be as fast as the bottleneck in the pathway taken to get there)
It's also hard to compare GOM old product to which was "mostly" free, to a new product they are releasing that you will pay for...
The cost isn't bad IMO depends really just on how much content you get in a full season and the quality... and for that I'm willing to give them the benifit of the doubt, even if I'm likely to just wait and see how people like Djwheat think of the content  .
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On September 02 2010 03:08 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 03:00 hypercube wrote:On September 02 2010 02:40 djWHEAT wrote:On September 02 2010 02:36 Kerotan wrote:
5. GOM's service is notoriously bad, stream is laggy and unstable, VODs are often broken, mislabelled and it took them 2.5 Classic seasons to work out that you should upload 3 files for a best of 3 VOD, so that the series isn't spoiled in game 1.
To me this is the best reason anyone can give for why this particular pricing model doesn't match the quality of the service you will receive. I can completely empathize with this. Asking $25-$50/month for home entertainment is not a workable business model. Maybe if you have a great product that everyone knows is great. And I don't just mean great in the sense that it's professional and well produced. I mean great as in OMG I GOTTA SEE THIS!11. There's just so many substitutes both in entertainment in general and esports in particular that's cheaper and also high quality. Must be painful for guys like you who work very hard and would presumably like to see some returns at some point but it's just a very tough climate. Especially esports where most of your potential customers have little disposable income. You can try to change attitudes but unless you have a plan to get rid of most forms of free entertainment you're stuck. That's why I think the correct model is to ask people who can afford to pay to pay (for some premium service but mostly to support the scene) and let others get the product free, especially since the marginal cost for additional viewers is close to 0. I completely agree that you shouldn't overpay for a service that doesn't deliver. However, I also look at alot of these things differently now than I did many years ago. For example, I used to go, "OMG why would I pay 0.99$ for an iPhone app?" - Then I realized that I pay $1.99 for energy drinks which I enjoy for 30 minutes and then that's it. So I just stopped buying energy drinks and started buying iPhone apps and I get a ton of enjoyment out of it. Also, I routinely purchase console games for $60... And then I spent 6 hours playing them. So when I see a potential product that could offer me more entertainment than the latest console title, I tend to be ok with that.
Not everyone wastes so much on awful games though. I'm not sure why you're saying it's acceptable either, that's precisely why Activision is so corrupt.
With 30 dollars you get like one month of like 10 different tv channels with different programs 24/7. What they're offering for the amount is completely laughable.
You might enjoy eating chocolate, maybe you want to buy a chocolate bar. Is it reasonable to pay 50$ for it, and do you also call others whiners and QQers if they don't want to buy something so completely overpriced even if they'd enjoy eating it?
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meh was hoping to show this to my friends, its hard enough to get casuals to watch a major tournament let alone get them to pay for it, guess i wont be watching it either.
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If the Korean stream is free, I'll just be tuning in to that.
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i already paid $60 for your game now you want to charge me to watch people play it? No thanks. I'll watch sc2 on free streams, thank you.
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On September 02 2010 03:08 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 03:00 hypercube wrote:On September 02 2010 02:40 djWHEAT wrote:On September 02 2010 02:36 Kerotan wrote:
5. GOM's service is notoriously bad, stream is laggy and unstable, VODs are often broken, mislabelled and it took them 2.5 Classic seasons to work out that you should upload 3 files for a best of 3 VOD, so that the series isn't spoiled in game 1.
To me this is the best reason anyone can give for why this particular pricing model doesn't match the quality of the service you will receive. I can completely empathize with this. Asking $25-$50/month for home entertainment is not a workable business model. Maybe if you have a great product that everyone knows is great. And I don't just mean great in the sense that it's professional and well produced. I mean great as in OMG I GOTTA SEE THIS!11. There's just so many substitutes both in entertainment in general and esports in particular that's cheaper and also high quality. Must be painful for guys like you who work very hard and would presumably like to see some returns at some point but it's just a very tough climate. Especially esports where most of your potential customers have little disposable income. You can try to change attitudes but unless you have a plan to get rid of most forms of free entertainment you're stuck. That's why I think the correct model is to ask people who can afford to pay to pay (for some premium service but mostly to support the scene) and let others get the product free, especially since the marginal cost for additional viewers is close to 0. I completely agree that you shouldn't overpay for a service that doesn't deliver. However, I also look at alot of these things differently now than I did many years ago. For example, I used to go, "OMG why would I pay 0.99$ for an iPhone app?" - Then I realized that I pay $1.99 for energy drinks which I enjoy for 30 minutes and then that's it. So I just stopped buying energy drinks and started buying iPhone apps and I get a ton of enjoyment out of it. Also, I routinely purchase console games for $60... And then I spent 6 hours playing them. So when I see a potential product that could offer me more entertainment than the latest console title, I tend to be ok with that.
I guess there's no real "fair" price for it and I wouldn't really feel cheated if I payed $50. But it comes back to what I said earlier: the value of this product depends on how many others are watching it. I might gladly pay 20 Euros to watch a football game with my friends, especially if it's a big event. But if noone else cares I might feel silly spending 200 for a season's ticket.
Since, for various reasons, I don't think they'll manage to convince many people to buy it for $50 it's not worth $50. Not only in the sense that they won't make a profit out of it. It's also not worth $50 for me since it's value depends on how many people will have seen it.
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On September 02 2010 03:08 djWHEAT wrote:I completely agree that you shouldn't overpay for a service that doesn't deliver.
However, I also look at alot of these things differently now than I did many years ago.
For example, I used to go, "OMG why would I pay 0.99$ for an iPhone app?" - Then I realized that I pay $1.99 for energy drinks which I enjoy for 30 minutes and then that's it. So I just stopped buying energy drinks and started buying iPhone apps and I get a ton of enjoyment out of it.
Also, I routinely purchase console games for $60... And then I spent 6 hours playing them. So when I see a potential product that could offer me more entertainment than the latest console title, I tend to be ok with that.
Yeah, that makes sense if that's how you've set up your budget. Personally, I don't buy games that I'll only play for 6 hours, phone apps or energy drinks. It's not that I have a limited funds, just that I like to be certain that I'm going to get my money's worth out of something that I purchase, especially if it's going to be $50 with no quality assurance.
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On September 02 2010 03:02 djWHEAT wrote:Well since I have opened my mouth. I will gladly pay the cost for the entire season and "review" it on Weapon of Choice  if it sucks, well then I wasted money and you didn't have to.
See doesn't this bother you?
I as a viewer of WOC, I will watch with interest, but what if it does suck?
I wouldn't care about the lost money, I would care what does this meant for professional televised Esport in the future, the money is immaterial to the clear dream of Esport everywhere, loved like anything else in a sporting sense, and every time things like this fail, that pushes the apex of this dream further and further away.
People would look at GOM and say "we tried making esport big, but it didn't work."
Starcraft was the first big step in Korea to getting any other Esport on TV, shit like Avalon, DnF, SF, SA, may all be small, but they have devoted fans, and just because they have less of a crowd doesn't make them any less devoted.
E sport is a very long way from becoming a global phenomena, for every America, Korea, China, Germany there are 20 countries that have a large Esport presence outside the internet.
In short, GOM succeeding will lead to growth in Esport as a whole, not just in SC2,
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aers
United States1210 Posts
It's also hard to compare GOM old product to which was "mostly" free, to a new product they are releasing that you will pay for..
The bitrates are the same as the GOM SC1 streams, except now we're watching SC2, which is a lot more detailed. It's most likely going to look terrible.
When you speed test your ISP based in your area off a speedtest pinging a server in the same area, you are bound to get much much better results than a speed test off a server an ocean and a half away. (Your connection is only going to be as fast as the bottleneck in the pathway taken to get there)
GOM's speedtest _should_ (I haven't checked) be in Fremont, California, which is where the servers they host the English stream on are. HE has pretty good connectivity so.. based on that speedtest result I'd say it's either testing via a Korean server and GOM will be streaming from Korea this time around (which would suck)..or the speedtest software is just terrible.
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yea, lol, no.
is there any comparable event in any sport that charges this much money?
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meh this is unfortunate.. I can't see me spending more than I spend on my cable internet to watch starcraft 2 games. I guess I'll have to follow a live text feed or something if it is offered.
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My connection
![[image loading]](http://www.speedtest.net/result/936711930.png)
To a server in seoul
![[image loading]](http://www.speedtest.net/result/936723603.png)
Their own http://www.gomtv.net/common/speedtest/check.php gives me ~200kb/sec
Conlusion:
I'll find a restream from someone closer who's connection doesn't blow to korea. Also, I bet they would earn more money if they lowered the price to sensible levels.
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I still don't know why we should support GOMTV.
They are making a korean event for (almost exclusively) Korean players in Korea.
Don't give me all the talk that they are supporting foreign scene by giving us a chance of hearing English commentators and watching 2 (not sure) foreigners play for $50 a season.
They aren't making an effort to make things more comfortable for broader audience and they are still asking for lots of money in return. I don't think that it is a good idea to support somebody who only wants to milk us all from money in exchange for poor experience. What's the fun in watching laggy stream with good players in it if you cannot see any action or waiting VODs load for like forever?
I would understand GOMTV's attitude if they paid for travel expenses of foreign players or made an international qualifiers to ensure it being "international". Anything making it smoother for us, foreigners, would justify their actions in my eyes.
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Ok i pulled some quotes from http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1, maybe some native english speaker can clarify that.
GOMtv presents TG-Intel STARCRAFT II Open Season 1!
There will be 3 Open Tournaments in 2010 and this is the very first tournament & official STARCRAFT II league in Korea.
64 players who determined through offline preliminaries, will participate in TG-Intel STARCRAFTII Open Season 1.
TG-Intel STARCRAFT II Open Season 1 is hosted from September 4th to October 2nd, 2010.
< Point system >
1. Total 3 of TG-Intel STARCRAFT II Open will be presented by GOMtv from September to November in 2010.2. Any players can participate in every season of TG-Intel STARCRAFT II Open and they get points according
to their match results.
3. Points of 2010 will determine the players who will be eligible for 2011 GSL.
Total points of 2010 will be calculated through 3 season of TG-Intel STARCRAFT II Open. From this I understand that: this set of Ro64 which is coming is one season, so 20$+30$ is only for this set which we have in upcoming few weeks.
From Premium zone
This allows you to watch every streaming Live Show on gomtv.net during the season.
You can enjoy over 150 set game live shows! * These features are only available for live shows & VOD that are currently being broadcasting under the ongoing League (for 1 season).
Now what is "set game"? I understand that we have Ro64 so that is 32+16+8+4+2+1final game, that is 63 games. So now is it 63*3seasons = 150+, OR 47 games Ro3 47*3 150+again?
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On September 02 2010 03:21 underverse wrote:
Personally, I don't buy games that I'll only play for 6 hours, phone apps or energy drinks. It's not that I have a limited funds, just that I like to be certain that I'm going to get my money's worth out of something that I purchase, especially if it's going to be $50 with no quality assurance.
This!
And i also love to support esports, where i can. I did buy esl-premium stream during the gamescom event and it probably was a little bit overpriced. But it was ok, because those guys offered a free stream for people who could not afford to pay.
The gomtv deal just smells like rip-off.
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i was really looking forward tow atching this but now that is charged... sigh.. im gonna miss some great matches then
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All the sc2 tournaments we have had so far all offer a free stream.
We have been watching BW for a while now, for free.
They can go ahead and make money by taking in sponsors and inserting a fair amount of advertisements.
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It's probably something like Bo3 until the semis, then Bo5. That would give them license to advertise 150+ games
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On September 02 2010 03:20 hypercube wrote:
I guess there's no real "fair" price for it and I wouldn't really feel cheated if I payed $50. But it comes back to what I said earlier: the value of this product depends on how many others are watching it. I might gladly pay 20 Euros to watch a football game with my friends, especially if it's a big event. But if noone else cares I might feel silly spending 200 for a season's ticket.
Since, for various reasons, I don't think they'll manage to convince many people to buy it for $50 it's not worth $50. Not only in the sense that they won't make a profit out of it. It's also not worth $50 for me since it's value depends on how many people will have seen it.
That's true. I mean, if you can't even talk about the matches with your friends then it's not nearly as fun. Even amongst other starcraft nerds not many will watch it. So why would I pay to watch this when 97% of teamliquid wont. That's of no value to me.
Now if there were a free low quality stream and a premium high quality stream it's a different matter, because at least then everybody can watch it and talk about it. But if nobody else can watch it there's no discussion about it and nobody will care enough.
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On September 02 2010 03:25 Jochan wrote:
Now what is "set game"? I understand that we have Ro64 so that is 32+16+8+4+2+1final game, that is 47 games. So now is it 47*3seasons = 141, OR 47 games Ro3 47*3 141 ?
O_O
thats 63 not 47 ><
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EPT
