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[GSL] About GSL Streams and VODs - Page 39

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
1697 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 85 Next
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
September 01 2010 18:48 GMT
#761
Wheat make a Weapon of Chocie SPECIAL
JohnStorm
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada74 Posts
September 01 2010 18:49 GMT
#762
I'm sorry is there a reason why you keep name dropping your show in every post?
-
Zhek
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada342 Posts
September 01 2010 18:49 GMT
#763
On September 02 2010 03:48 Frankon wrote:
Wheat make a Weapon of Chocie SPECIAL


Weapon of Choice: STATE OF EMERGENCY
TheOGBlitzKrieg
Profile Joined June 2010
United States346 Posts
September 01 2010 18:50 GMT
#764
I'm confused. Doesn't it say it will provide a low quality stream free?
djWHEAT
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States925 Posts
September 01 2010 18:50 GMT
#765
On September 02 2010 03:42 Kishkumen wrote:
I love DJWheat's backtracking throughout this thread.


I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong or perhaps spoke too soon. So take it for what it's worth.
OneMoreGame.tv // Weapon Of Choice // Kings Of Tin // Inside The Game // Live On Three
NuKedUFirst
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada3139 Posts
September 01 2010 18:51 GMT
#766
The first games for every match will be provided without charge.

I really don't see the point of this. Also the pay-per-stream and VODs is just silly. You guys really need to re think this. We are all broke college students.
FrostedMiniWeet wrote: I like winning because it validates all the bloody time I waste playing SC2.
ZerOsAndOnEs
Profile Joined July 2010
United States64 Posts
September 01 2010 18:51 GMT
#767
On September 02 2010 03:49 Zhek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 03:48 Frankon wrote:
Wheat make a Weapon of Chocie SPECIAL


Weapon of Choice: STATE OF EMERGENCY

Wheat is good at pulling strings, maybe he could get a GOM Rep on the horn..
dvide
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom287 Posts
September 01 2010 18:53 GMT
#768
Wheat you're missing the bigger picture I feel. It's not about the fact that they need to cover their costs. Of course they do. But I do believe they would stand to make more money in the long term if they established themselves first, offered free stream + premium service, etc. I just cannot see how this pricing model with no free option is feasible; they might aswell just fire tasteless and not bother with foreigner stream at all. Now if they're literally out of money and cannot secure a loan and so cannot defer this into the future at all, then I guess we're just fucked.
The_DjiN
Profile Joined June 2008
Germany86 Posts
September 01 2010 18:53 GMT
#769
DjWheat: Hearing you talk gives me the impression supporting eSports is just about how much money you are willing to blow into the industry.

I think eSports is way more then just charging unreasonable prices. Why can I watch the Soccer World Cup for no extra fee on television then?
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
September 01 2010 18:54 GMT
#770
On September 02 2010 03:46 djWHEAT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 03:38 Chill wrote:
On September 02 2010 03:08 djWHEAT wrote:
On September 02 2010 03:00 hypercube wrote:
On September 02 2010 02:40 djWHEAT wrote:
On September 02 2010 02:36 Kerotan wrote:
5. GOM's service is notoriously bad, stream is laggy and unstable, VODs are often broken, mislabelled and it took them 2.5 Classic seasons to work out that you should upload 3 files for a best of 3 VOD, so that the series isn't spoiled in game 1.


To me this is the best reason anyone can give for why this particular pricing model doesn't match the quality of the service you will receive. I can completely empathize with this.




Asking $25-$50/month for home entertainment is not a workable business model. Maybe if you have a great product that everyone knows is great. And I don't just mean great in the sense that it's professional and well produced. I mean great as in OMG I GOTTA SEE THIS!11. There's just so many substitutes both in entertainment in general and esports in particular that's cheaper and also high quality. Must be painful for guys like you who work very hard and would presumably like to see some returns at some point but it's just a very tough climate.

Especially esports where most of your potential customers have little disposable income. You can try to change attitudes but unless you have a plan to get rid of most forms of free entertainment you're stuck. That's why I think the correct model is to ask people who can afford to pay to pay (for some premium service but mostly to support the scene) and let others get the product free, especially since the marginal cost for additional viewers is close to 0.


I completely agree that you shouldn't overpay for a service that doesn't deliver.

However, I also look at alot of these things differently now than I did many years ago.

For example, I used to go, "OMG why would I pay 0.99$ for an iPhone app?" - Then I realized that I pay $1.99 for energy drinks which I enjoy for 30 minutes and then that's it. So I just stopped buying energy drinks and started buying iPhone apps and I get a ton of enjoyment out of it.

Also, I routinely purchase console games for $60... And then I spent 6 hours playing them. So when I see a potential product that could offer me more entertainment than the latest console title, I tend to be ok with that.


I can see your point but you have to be able to see others' perspective too. For some people the cost is too high, but for me, the cost is irrelevant. It could be $5, $20, or $200 and I would care the same amount. I don't like that GOM think they can force the foreign market to pay money to support their game, so I wouldn't pay anything for it. If there was more effort explaining why I should pay, what I will get, even some basic form of effort on their part it could change my opinion. If it was set up as a volunteer / upgrade system I would most definitely try the free stream and then consider and upgrade. As is I won't be watching if they continue with this pay model.


OMG YOU ARE SO FIRED!?! Why couldn't this news have come out prior to Sunday??? This would be an awesome Weapon of Choice discussion topic

I mean I get that everyone's spending is different, and that people are upset for different reasons. It's not much different from Microsoft raising XBOX LIVE another $10/year starting in November. I don't feel like I get $50/year worth in the first place. But others may think that playing Halo with 12 year old kids is worth that and don't give a damn.

I wish, like a few of the other posters who have pointed out, that GOM would offer a bit more explanation as for the change. If they told you that they were charging for this premium service so that they could fully upgrade their infrastructure to ensure they are delivering a good product... would you go for it? Or are you simply just not happy with the fact that you get no way to "review" the product without paying money...

And for that matter... is it worth it to someone to say, buy a 1 day pass to determine if it's worth a damn? Or is that already BS?

I spend money on some pretty stupid shit, so on one hand that doesn't seem a big deal to me... but I'm trying to put myself in other's shoes, and that 1 day pass could be like 3 days of ramen. I'm more curious than anything...


I agree and I am more than happy to pay but cannot do so with GOM's previous offerings. I would have paid $50 for GOM Season 3 HD, but their experience was awful. Tasteless and SDM were heroes but the stream quality sucked (and that was SC1), and the VOD's were ultra glitchy, and I often had to rewatch 50+ minute games due to a misclick on the progress bar.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
OTIX
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden491 Posts
September 01 2010 18:54 GMT
#771
I'd like to reiterate that the speed test appears to be mislabeled, the Kbps should be KBps, you're getting 8 times the speed that it says. You can verify this by checking your actual bw consumption during the test. Presumably this also means that the 500Kbps stream is actually 4Mbps and very high quality. Of course that doesn't change the fact that most people are still getting less bw in the test than the stream requires.
Midj
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada253 Posts
September 01 2010 18:54 GMT
#772
On September 02 2010 03:46 djWHEAT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 03:38 Chill wrote:
On September 02 2010 03:08 djWHEAT wrote:
On September 02 2010 03:00 hypercube wrote:
On September 02 2010 02:40 djWHEAT wrote:
On September 02 2010 02:36 Kerotan wrote:
5. GOM's service is notoriously bad, stream is laggy and unstable, VODs are often broken, mislabelled and it took them 2.5 Classic seasons to work out that you should upload 3 files for a best of 3 VOD, so that the series isn't spoiled in game 1.


To me this is the best reason anyone can give for why this particular pricing model doesn't match the quality of the service you will receive. I can completely empathize with this.




Asking $25-$50/month for home entertainment is not a workable business model. Maybe if you have a great product that everyone knows is great. And I don't just mean great in the sense that it's professional and well produced. I mean great as in OMG I GOTTA SEE THIS!11. There's just so many substitutes both in entertainment in general and esports in particular that's cheaper and also high quality. Must be painful for guys like you who work very hard and would presumably like to see some returns at some point but it's just a very tough climate.

Especially esports where most of your potential customers have little disposable income. You can try to change attitudes but unless you have a plan to get rid of most forms of free entertainment you're stuck. That's why I think the correct model is to ask people who can afford to pay to pay (for some premium service but mostly to support the scene) and let others get the product free, especially since the marginal cost for additional viewers is close to 0.


I completely agree that you shouldn't overpay for a service that doesn't deliver.

However, I also look at alot of these things differently now than I did many years ago.

For example, I used to go, "OMG why would I pay 0.99$ for an iPhone app?" - Then I realized that I pay $1.99 for energy drinks which I enjoy for 30 minutes and then that's it. So I just stopped buying energy drinks and started buying iPhone apps and I get a ton of enjoyment out of it.

Also, I routinely purchase console games for $60... And then I spent 6 hours playing them. So when I see a potential product that could offer me more entertainment than the latest console title, I tend to be ok with that.


I can see your point but you have to be able to see others' perspective too. For some people the cost is too high, but for me, the cost is irrelevant. It could be $5, $20, or $200 and I would care the same amount. I don't like that GOM think they can force the foreign market to pay money to support their game, so I wouldn't pay anything for it. If there was more effort explaining why I should pay, what I will get, even some basic form of effort on their part it could change my opinion. If it was set up as a volunteer / upgrade system I would most definitely try the free stream and then consider and upgrade. As is I won't be watching if they continue with this pay model.


OMG YOU ARE SO FIRED!?! Why couldn't this news have come out prior to Sunday??? This would be an awesome Weapon of Choice discussion topic

I mean I get that everyone's spending is different, and that people are upset for different reasons. It's not much different from Microsoft raising XBOX LIVE another $10/year starting in November. I don't feel like I get $50/year worth in the first place. But others may think that playing Halo with 12 year old kids is worth that and don't give a damn.

I wish, like a few of the other posters who have pointed out, that GOM would offer a bit more explanation as for the change. If they told you that they were charging for this premium service so that they could fully upgrade their infrastructure to ensure they are delivering a good product... would you go for it? Or are you simply just not happy with the fact that you get no way to "review" the product without paying money...

And for that matter... is it worth it to someone to say, buy a 1 day pass to determine if it's worth a damn? Or is that already BS?

I spend money on some pretty stupid shit, so on one hand that doesn't seem a big deal to me... but I'm trying to put myself in other's shoes, and that 1 day pass could be like 3 days of ramen. I'm more curious than anything...


Wheat, here it is from my perspective.

I get 226KB to their server that they put up to test the connection. I have little to no money to spend on luxuries. I will undoubtedly end up watching a restream of GomTV because it is a joy to watch Tasteless and Artosis cast.

You may have a somewhat disposable income, however I do not. Low quality streams and community streams that go up on TL are pretty much my cheap entertainment and I'd love to pay for some of it at a reasonable price if I had the income for it. However, I don't. These prices are crazy high for a stream that probably won't even work for me.

So, there are some shoes for you to put yourself in. Careful there may be shit on the bottom of them.

Oh yeah, just because you and chill are talking about this in the thread doesn't mean you can weasel out of talking about it on weapon of choice , I'd love to see a dialogue between you guys on this and some rationalizing from either end.
I enjoy watching more than playing.
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
September 01 2010 18:55 GMT
#773
On September 02 2010 03:53 The_DjiN wrote:
DjWheat: Hearing you talk gives me the impression supporting eSports is just about how much money you are willing to blow into the industry.

I think eSports is way more then just charging unreasonable prices. Why can I watch the Soccer World Cup for no extra fee on television then?

"Bread and Olimpics"

Main reason ^^
djWHEAT
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States925 Posts
September 01 2010 18:56 GMT
#774
On September 02 2010 03:42 Kishkumen wrote:
If a $20 fee was the only way this could be made viable, I'd understand it, but it seems as though there were plenty of other viable options and that GOM just made poor decisions. I think this is where many of us are having problems with it. We're not saying that this tournament doesn't cost money to produce, but we are saying that the structuring of where GOM put its money seems kind of ludicrous.


Do we have a comprehensive budget one-sheet of how GOM has spent this money? Do we have ANY detail on the "poor decisions" that have been made? Do we even know the justification as to WHY it's going to be this way?

I mean, we've all speculated in this thread, but can you really say those things in confidence?
OneMoreGame.tv // Weapon Of Choice // Kings Of Tin // Inside The Game // Live On Three
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
September 01 2010 18:57 GMT
#775
Honestly, if you're trying to break into a new market, (i.e. foreigners), charging an exorbitant fee or any fee at all (with no free alternative) is the WORST possible way to capture an audience. When Koreans who in general are far more devoted to E-Sports than us are unwilling to pay for their streams, there's simply no way we'll pay.
djWHEAT
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States925 Posts
September 01 2010 18:58 GMT
#776
On September 02 2010 03:49 JohnStorm wrote:
I'm sorry is there a reason why you keep name dropping your show in every post?


So I can eventually charge $20 per episode for people to access the amazing 150k quality video stream... obviously. Chill's not cheap you know.
OneMoreGame.tv // Weapon Of Choice // Kings Of Tin // Inside The Game // Live On Three
RoyalCheese
Profile Joined May 2010
Czech Republic745 Posts
September 01 2010 18:58 GMT
#777
I don't know but this whole thing seems to me like they are trying to make some money on the side while promoting sc2 in Korea. And as a student I will rather spend money on 25 beers then dc tournament since there are so many of them. Now if it was 10 bucks for VODs, that I would probably pay
Kennigit: "Chill was once able to retire really young, but decided to donate his entire salary TO SUPPORT ESPORTS"
SevenAteNine
Profile Joined February 2010
126 Posts
September 01 2010 18:59 GMT
#778
On September 02 2010 03:02 djWHEAT wrote:
Well since I have opened my mouth. I will gladly pay the cost for the entire season and "review" it on Weapon of Choice if it sucks, well then I wasted money and you didn't have to.


this is a very great idea, i will definitely tune in for weapon of choice to check out your review as i do anyways because you're simply awesome.
omnomnomnom
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 19:01:47
September 01 2010 19:00 GMT
#779
The big problem is growth

You want a LOT of people to watch it. It's making money vs making money later. They could easily cut the prize money, or cut costs elsewhere and do a free normal, cost HQ.

It's looking at things in the long run (activision doesnt do this)

Overall they should look to GROW things, then make money. Doing good in the first year of SC2 will set you up for 10 years of success.

Unfortunately they may only have a 1 year contract on broadcasting so who knows.

Fast expand dont 6 pool!
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
September 01 2010 19:00 GMT
#780
So... low quality stream won't be free?... I'm sorry but I don't have enough money to spare in order to buy that. I thought you care about the foreign community, but it seems that you care about their money.

Why not free stream with ads?
And can you guarantee that your stream will be 100% lag-free? I don't wan't to pay for a shitty laggy crappy stream.

o choro é livre
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