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In the second game Idra vs Silver the commentator said Idra could just have run up his lings to get scouting. Can someone explain to me how he would know a starport was up based on what he would have seen. (I know very little about terran so I'm seriously asking).
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On August 03 2010 08:05 ]Grey[ wrote:Show nested quote +
2.Just saying that post lair scout is extremely effective, and before then you can scout just fine via poking.
Poking is not sufficient for scouting in the early game if the Terran is intelligent enough to not leave all his tech buildings and units near the front/edge of his base. It can be very hard for the Zerg to sac an ovie and see what he needs to see on certain maps since it can easily be denied by a handful of well placed marines. Simply seeing marines is usually not enough to tell you what strategy the Terran is going for. A good Zerg essentially has map hacks running in the late game, it's scouting before lair that is the problem.
You can find out the openings though. If he does happen to be playing at his top than you just see if he has a tech lab. If he is, and no reapers came, than he's going marduerer and you build more lings. If he is going starport or such, than you should be able to deal with it as long as you have xel naga towers or other. Just go roaches until you can scout more so. I would say sacing an overlord is usually succesful however, since you might be able to see his army/tech/units requiring tech and if he does have several rines than he's probably going drop or bio push.
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On August 03 2010 08:08 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 07:54 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 07:35 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 06:16 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 05:46 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 05:34 kajeus wrote:On August 03 2010 01:56 Graven wrote:On August 03 2010 01:50 Fayth wrote:
suiciding an overlord or 2 seems better than guessing, as costly as scans It's more *costly* than a scan and less effective. P.S. Idra, since you're reading this...congrats on KotB...great games. Keep it up. Huh? It's cheaper than a scan. It's only 100 minerals -- that's like four lings. I play zerg. I agree that scouting is difficult, especially early in the game. But it's not a problem once you get to the midgame. this is not correct. 100 minerals on an extra ovvi fucks up your BOs entirely, not to mention two thirds of the time you wont even be able to scout in the correct spot and die to marines. And also terran a) doesnt need to scout zerg early- zerg has no means to surprise a terran and b) terran has higher income(both actual, and perceived(cost effectiveness of units)) then zerg early game(there is a reason zerg has to outmacro all other races), so losing the 270 on a mule is in a real game a lot less damaging then losing an ovvi is for zerg. Scout with drone at ~12, get in a look. See if they're going fast reaper of helion/rine. Easy peasy. You can even snipe the SCV with the drone if your lucky. :O doesnt work sorry.
Terran needs to scout (how bout baneling bust/early pool)
Dont wall with supplies lulz.
Don't necessarily need to sac an overlord, unless you really need the info NOW. Once you get a lair morph an overseer and than scout with that. Zerg possibly have the best scouting ability due to the changeling, since scans can only be in one place while a changeling can move around and even appear as the enemy. Add to that a scan costs ~300 mins?(since no mule). Overseer is 50 mins 100 gas or vice versa. Point remains the same.
You cant read. Noone is talkign about post lair.
Zerg has to outmacro other races because they are basically a macro race.
That sentence doesnt mean anything.
They have weaker units for weaker costs. Heck, roaches counter early reapers or a rine/helion push so all you have to do is scout to see if they're going marduerer. Lings can easily take care of marduerers.
Roaches counter neither reapers nor helions. Who in their right mind would try to attack roaches with helions? 0.Doesn't work? I beg to differ. My and Idra's opinion trumps yours Show nested quote +
1.They don't wall with supplies? Then still early pool and you can tell what they're going to do (therefore less scout work)
You forgot the original train of thought Show nested quote +
2.Just saying that post lair scout is extremely effective, and before then you can scout just fine via poking.
Show nested quote +
3. Roaches don't counter reapers or helions? Going to let you think about that.
Again, what happens in silver league doesnt really concern me. You have not played Jinro or Lzgamer and their reapers.
You must construct additional arguments.
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On August 03 2010 08:08 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 07:54 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 07:35 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 06:16 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 05:46 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 05:34 kajeus wrote:On August 03 2010 01:56 Graven wrote:On August 03 2010 01:50 Fayth wrote:
suiciding an overlord or 2 seems better than guessing, as costly as scans It's more *costly* than a scan and less effective. P.S. Idra, since you're reading this...congrats on KotB...great games. Keep it up. Huh? It's cheaper than a scan. It's only 100 minerals -- that's like four lings. I play zerg. I agree that scouting is difficult, especially early in the game. But it's not a problem once you get to the midgame. this is not correct. 100 minerals on an extra ovvi fucks up your BOs entirely, not to mention two thirds of the time you wont even be able to scout in the correct spot and die to marines. And also terran a) doesnt need to scout zerg early- zerg has no means to surprise a terran and b) terran has higher income(both actual, and perceived(cost effectiveness of units)) then zerg early game(there is a reason zerg has to outmacro all other races), so losing the 270 on a mule is in a real game a lot less damaging then losing an ovvi is for zerg. Scout with drone at ~12, get in a look. See if they're going fast reaper of helion/rine. Easy peasy. You can even snipe the SCV with the drone if your lucky. :O doesnt work sorry.
Terran needs to scout (how bout baneling bust/early pool)
Dont wall with supplies lulz.
Don't necessarily need to sac an overlord, unless you really need the info NOW. Once you get a lair morph an overseer and than scout with that. Zerg possibly have the best scouting ability due to the changeling, since scans can only be in one place while a changeling can move around and even appear as the enemy. Add to that a scan costs ~300 mins?(since no mule). Overseer is 50 mins 100 gas or vice versa. Point remains the same.
You cant read. Noone is talkign about post lair.
Zerg has to outmacro other races because they are basically a macro race.
That sentence doesnt mean anything.
They have weaker units for weaker costs. Heck, roaches counter early reapers or a rine/helion push so all you have to do is scout to see if they're going marduerer. Lings can easily take care of marduerers.
Roaches counter neither reapers nor helions. Who in their right mind would try to attack roaches with helions? 0.Doesn't work? I beg to differ. My and Idra's opinion trumps yours Show nested quote +
1.They don't wall with supplies? Then still early pool and you can tell what they're going to do (therefore less scout work)
You forgot the original train of thought Show nested quote +
2.Just saying that post lair scout is extremely effective, and before then you can scout just fine via poking.
Show nested quote +
3. Roaches don't counter reapers or helions? Going to let you think about that.
Again, what happens in silver league doesnt really concern me. You have not played Jinro or Lzgamer and their reapers.
1.Idra is not a balance designer, and he is not infallible. I've played games where I've done it and it works, so if reality goes against what he says, than I guess I win.
2.I'm saying if they do do that than they let zerg be able to counter what they do. Therefore, terran is actually giving zerg a possible advantage. You're right, they can just not scout and let zerg have all scouting. But then zerg has an advantage.
3.hahaha, I'm diamond. And plenty of other diamonds and pros will agree with me. Roaches for one will hard counter helions and reapers, and its true that if they do micro they can take it out. But that's
1.Micro intensive
2.takes long
In the LZ case, when he went mass reaper(I assume you're pointing out that game) the opponet needed to stay on creep and mass roaches. The problem was he didn't know how much LZ commited to that. If he had known, he could've easily won and countered.
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On August 03 2010 08:12 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 08:08 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 07:54 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 07:35 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 06:16 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 05:46 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 05:34 kajeus wrote:On August 03 2010 01:56 Graven wrote:On August 03 2010 01:50 Fayth wrote:
suiciding an overlord or 2 seems better than guessing, as costly as scans It's more *costly* than a scan and less effective. P.S. Idra, since you're reading this...congrats on KotB...great games. Keep it up. Huh? It's cheaper than a scan. It's only 100 minerals -- that's like four lings. I play zerg. I agree that scouting is difficult, especially early in the game. But it's not a problem once you get to the midgame. this is not correct. 100 minerals on an extra ovvi fucks up your BOs entirely, not to mention two thirds of the time you wont even be able to scout in the correct spot and die to marines. And also terran a) doesnt need to scout zerg early- zerg has no means to surprise a terran and b) terran has higher income(both actual, and perceived(cost effectiveness of units)) then zerg early game(there is a reason zerg has to outmacro all other races), so losing the 270 on a mule is in a real game a lot less damaging then losing an ovvi is for zerg. Scout with drone at ~12, get in a look. See if they're going fast reaper of helion/rine. Easy peasy. You can even snipe the SCV with the drone if your lucky. :O doesnt work sorry.
Terran needs to scout (how bout baneling bust/early pool)
Dont wall with supplies lulz.
Don't necessarily need to sac an overlord, unless you really need the info NOW. Once you get a lair morph an overseer and than scout with that. Zerg possibly have the best scouting ability due to the changeling, since scans can only be in one place while a changeling can move around and even appear as the enemy. Add to that a scan costs ~300 mins?(since no mule). Overseer is 50 mins 100 gas or vice versa. Point remains the same.
You cant read. Noone is talkign about post lair.
Zerg has to outmacro other races because they are basically a macro race.
That sentence doesnt mean anything.
They have weaker units for weaker costs. Heck, roaches counter early reapers or a rine/helion push so all you have to do is scout to see if they're going marduerer. Lings can easily take care of marduerers.
Roaches counter neither reapers nor helions. Who in their right mind would try to attack roaches with helions? 0.Doesn't work? I beg to differ. My and Idra's opinion trumps yours
1.They don't wall with supplies? Then still early pool and you can tell what they're going to do (therefore less scout work)
You forgot the original train of thought
2.Just saying that post lair scout is extremely effective, and before then you can scout just fine via poking.
3. Roaches don't counter reapers or helions? Going to let you think about that.
Again, what happens in silver league doesnt really concern me. You have not played Jinro or Lzgamer and their reapers. You must construct additional arguments.
you must read the thread><v
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+ Show Spoiler +
Did silver just lose a game because he didn't want to repair his bunkers?
Big fan of fast lair in zvt because 200 gas on overseer and lair is preferably to losing horribly.
Maybe thats why dimaga was going 1 base lair zvt at some point.
And yeah the only things roaches can do vs reapers and hellions is hold them at bay while he micros your roaches down so you need to have a followup like roach speed or spire or infestors or something.
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On August 03 2010 08:20 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 08:12 vyyye wrote:On August 03 2010 08:08 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 07:54 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 07:35 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 06:16 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 05:46 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 05:34 kajeus wrote:On August 03 2010 01:56 Graven wrote:On August 03 2010 01:50 Fayth wrote:
suiciding an overlord or 2 seems better than guessing, as costly as scans It's more *costly* than a scan and less effective. P.S. Idra, since you're reading this...congrats on KotB...great games. Keep it up. Huh? It's cheaper than a scan. It's only 100 minerals -- that's like four lings. I play zerg. I agree that scouting is difficult, especially early in the game. But it's not a problem once you get to the midgame. this is not correct. 100 minerals on an extra ovvi fucks up your BOs entirely, not to mention two thirds of the time you wont even be able to scout in the correct spot and die to marines. And also terran a) doesnt need to scout zerg early- zerg has no means to surprise a terran and b) terran has higher income(both actual, and perceived(cost effectiveness of units)) then zerg early game(there is a reason zerg has to outmacro all other races), so losing the 270 on a mule is in a real game a lot less damaging then losing an ovvi is for zerg. Scout with drone at ~12, get in a look. See if they're going fast reaper of helion/rine. Easy peasy. You can even snipe the SCV with the drone if your lucky. :O doesnt work sorry.
Terran needs to scout (how bout baneling bust/early pool)
Dont wall with supplies lulz.
Don't necessarily need to sac an overlord, unless you really need the info NOW. Once you get a lair morph an overseer and than scout with that. Zerg possibly have the best scouting ability due to the changeling, since scans can only be in one place while a changeling can move around and even appear as the enemy. Add to that a scan costs ~300 mins?(since no mule). Overseer is 50 mins 100 gas or vice versa. Point remains the same.
You cant read. Noone is talkign about post lair.
Zerg has to outmacro other races because they are basically a macro race.
That sentence doesnt mean anything.
They have weaker units for weaker costs. Heck, roaches counter early reapers or a rine/helion push so all you have to do is scout to see if they're going marduerer. Lings can easily take care of marduerers.
Roaches counter neither reapers nor helions. Who in their right mind would try to attack roaches with helions? 0.Doesn't work? I beg to differ. My and Idra's opinion trumps yours
1.They don't wall with supplies? Then still early pool and you can tell what they're going to do (therefore less scout work)
You forgot the original train of thought
2.Just saying that post lair scout is extremely effective, and before then you can scout just fine via poking.
3. Roaches don't counter reapers or helions? Going to let you think about that.
Again, what happens in silver league doesnt really concern me. You have not played Jinro or Lzgamer and their reapers. You must construct additional arguments. you must read the thread><v
I did, it was fair enough at first but the whole "Our opinion is better than your opinion" post seemed entirely pointless.
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On August 03 2010 08:16 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 08:08 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 07:54 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 07:35 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 06:16 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 05:46 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 05:34 kajeus wrote:On August 03 2010 01:56 Graven wrote:On August 03 2010 01:50 Fayth wrote:
suiciding an overlord or 2 seems better than guessing, as costly as scans It's more *costly* than a scan and less effective. P.S. Idra, since you're reading this...congrats on KotB...great games. Keep it up. Huh? It's cheaper than a scan. It's only 100 minerals -- that's like four lings. I play zerg. I agree that scouting is difficult, especially early in the game. But it's not a problem once you get to the midgame. this is not correct. 100 minerals on an extra ovvi fucks up your BOs entirely, not to mention two thirds of the time you wont even be able to scout in the correct spot and die to marines. And also terran a) doesnt need to scout zerg early- zerg has no means to surprise a terran and b) terran has higher income(both actual, and perceived(cost effectiveness of units)) then zerg early game(there is a reason zerg has to outmacro all other races), so losing the 270 on a mule is in a real game a lot less damaging then losing an ovvi is for zerg. Scout with drone at ~12, get in a look. See if they're going fast reaper of helion/rine. Easy peasy. You can even snipe the SCV with the drone if your lucky. :O doesnt work sorry.
Terran needs to scout (how bout baneling bust/early pool)
Dont wall with supplies lulz.
Don't necessarily need to sac an overlord, unless you really need the info NOW. Once you get a lair morph an overseer and than scout with that. Zerg possibly have the best scouting ability due to the changeling, since scans can only be in one place while a changeling can move around and even appear as the enemy. Add to that a scan costs ~300 mins?(since no mule). Overseer is 50 mins 100 gas or vice versa. Point remains the same.
You cant read. Noone is talkign about post lair.
Zerg has to outmacro other races because they are basically a macro race.
That sentence doesnt mean anything.
They have weaker units for weaker costs. Heck, roaches counter early reapers or a rine/helion push so all you have to do is scout to see if they're going marduerer. Lings can easily take care of marduerers.
Roaches counter neither reapers nor helions. Who in their right mind would try to attack roaches with helions? 0.Doesn't work? I beg to differ. My and Idra's opinion trumps yours
1.They don't wall with supplies? Then still early pool and you can tell what they're going to do (therefore less scout work)
You forgot the original train of thought
2.Just saying that post lair scout is extremely effective, and before then you can scout just fine via poking.
3. Roaches don't counter reapers or helions? Going to let you think about that.
Again, what happens in silver league doesnt really concern me. You have not played Jinro or Lzgamer and their reapers. 1.Idra is not a balance designer, and he is not infallible. I've played games where I've done it and it works, so if reality goes against what he says, than I guess I win. 2.I'm saying if they do do that than they let zerg be able to counter what they do. Therefore, terran is actually giving zerg a possible advantage. You're right, they can just not scout and let zerg have all scouting. But then zerg has an advantage. 3.hahaha, I'm diamond. And plenty of other diamonds and pros will agree with me. Roaches for one will hard counter helions and reapers, and its true that if they do micro they can take it out. But that's 1.Micro intensive 2.takes long In the LZ case, when he went mass reaper(I assume you're pointing out that game) the opponet needed to stay on creep and mass roaches. The problem was he didn't know how much LZ commited to that. If he had known, he could've easily won and countered.
well, a) 12 drone scouting is way too late, b, this is a matter of experience and if two better zergs tell you that drones are not reliable, drones are not reliable. You might be right, but if its a matter of experience we're talking here you need to bring in dimaga and sen that will claim that they can drone scout banshees.
roaches pre lair on or off creep are not fast enough to counter proper microed reapers or heaven forbid blue flame helions. The proper counter to reapers or regular helions is speedlings, and the proper counter to blue flame helions is losing countless drones.
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On August 03 2010 08:22 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 08:20 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 08:12 vyyye wrote:On August 03 2010 08:08 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 07:54 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 07:35 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 06:16 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 05:46 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 05:34 kajeus wrote:On August 03 2010 01:56 Graven wrote:
[quote]
It's more *costly* than a scan and less effective.
P.S. Idra, since you're reading this...congrats on KotB...great games. Keep it up. Huh? It's cheaper than a scan. It's only 100 minerals -- that's like four lings. I play zerg. I agree that scouting is difficult, especially early in the game. But it's not a problem once you get to the midgame. this is not correct. 100 minerals on an extra ovvi fucks up your BOs entirely, not to mention two thirds of the time you wont even be able to scout in the correct spot and die to marines. And also terran a) doesnt need to scout zerg early- zerg has no means to surprise a terran and b) terran has higher income(both actual, and perceived(cost effectiveness of units)) then zerg early game(there is a reason zerg has to outmacro all other races), so losing the 270 on a mule is in a real game a lot less damaging then losing an ovvi is for zerg. Scout with drone at ~12, get in a look. See if they're going fast reaper of helion/rine. Easy peasy. You can even snipe the SCV with the drone if your lucky. :O doesnt work sorry.
Terran needs to scout (how bout baneling bust/early pool)
Dont wall with supplies lulz.
Don't necessarily need to sac an overlord, unless you really need the info NOW. Once you get a lair morph an overseer and than scout with that. Zerg possibly have the best scouting ability due to the changeling, since scans can only be in one place while a changeling can move around and even appear as the enemy. Add to that a scan costs ~300 mins?(since no mule). Overseer is 50 mins 100 gas or vice versa. Point remains the same.
You cant read. Noone is talkign about post lair.
Zerg has to outmacro other races because they are basically a macro race.
That sentence doesnt mean anything.
They have weaker units for weaker costs. Heck, roaches counter early reapers or a rine/helion push so all you have to do is scout to see if they're going marduerer. Lings can easily take care of marduerers.
Roaches counter neither reapers nor helions. Who in their right mind would try to attack roaches with helions? 0.Doesn't work? I beg to differ. My and Idra's opinion trumps yours
1.They don't wall with supplies? Then still early pool and you can tell what they're going to do (therefore less scout work)
You forgot the original train of thought
2.Just saying that post lair scout is extremely effective, and before then you can scout just fine via poking.
3. Roaches don't counter reapers or helions? Going to let you think about that.
Again, what happens in silver league doesnt really concern me. You have not played Jinro or Lzgamer and their reapers. You must construct additional arguments. you must read the thread><v I did, it was fair enough at first but the whole "Our opinion is better than your opinion" post seemed entirely pointless.
How can i prove that scouting witha drone doesnt help? it's a matter of experience, and it doesnt:X
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On August 03 2010 08:23 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 08:16 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 08:08 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 07:54 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 07:35 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 06:16 Pandain wrote:On August 03 2010 05:46 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 03 2010 05:34 kajeus wrote:On August 03 2010 01:56 Graven wrote:On August 03 2010 01:50 Fayth wrote:
suiciding an overlord or 2 seems better than guessing, as costly as scans It's more *costly* than a scan and less effective. P.S. Idra, since you're reading this...congrats on KotB...great games. Keep it up. Huh? It's cheaper than a scan. It's only 100 minerals -- that's like four lings. I play zerg. I agree that scouting is difficult, especially early in the game. But it's not a problem once you get to the midgame. this is not correct. 100 minerals on an extra ovvi fucks up your BOs entirely, not to mention two thirds of the time you wont even be able to scout in the correct spot and die to marines. And also terran a) doesnt need to scout zerg early- zerg has no means to surprise a terran and b) terran has higher income(both actual, and perceived(cost effectiveness of units)) then zerg early game(there is a reason zerg has to outmacro all other races), so losing the 270 on a mule is in a real game a lot less damaging then losing an ovvi is for zerg. Scout with drone at ~12, get in a look. See if they're going fast reaper of helion/rine. Easy peasy. You can even snipe the SCV with the drone if your lucky. :O doesnt work sorry.
Terran needs to scout (how bout baneling bust/early pool)
Dont wall with supplies lulz.
Don't necessarily need to sac an overlord, unless you really need the info NOW. Once you get a lair morph an overseer and than scout with that. Zerg possibly have the best scouting ability due to the changeling, since scans can only be in one place while a changeling can move around and even appear as the enemy. Add to that a scan costs ~300 mins?(since no mule). Overseer is 50 mins 100 gas or vice versa. Point remains the same.
You cant read. Noone is talkign about post lair.
Zerg has to outmacro other races because they are basically a macro race.
That sentence doesnt mean anything.
They have weaker units for weaker costs. Heck, roaches counter early reapers or a rine/helion push so all you have to do is scout to see if they're going marduerer. Lings can easily take care of marduerers.
Roaches counter neither reapers nor helions. Who in their right mind would try to attack roaches with helions? 0.Doesn't work? I beg to differ. My and Idra's opinion trumps yours
1.They don't wall with supplies? Then still early pool and you can tell what they're going to do (therefore less scout work)
You forgot the original train of thought
2.Just saying that post lair scout is extremely effective, and before then you can scout just fine via poking.
3. Roaches don't counter reapers or helions? Going to let you think about that.
Again, what happens in silver league doesnt really concern me. You have not played Jinro or Lzgamer and their reapers. 1.Idra is not a balance designer, and he is not infallible. I've played games where I've done it and it works, so if reality goes against what he says, than I guess I win. 2.I'm saying if they do do that than they let zerg be able to counter what they do. Therefore, terran is actually giving zerg a possible advantage. You're right, they can just not scout and let zerg have all scouting. But then zerg has an advantage. 3.hahaha, I'm diamond. And plenty of other diamonds and pros will agree with me. Roaches for one will hard counter helions and reapers, and its true that if they do micro they can take it out. But that's 1.Micro intensive 2.takes long In the LZ case, when he went mass reaper(I assume you're pointing out that game) the opponet needed to stay on creep and mass roaches. The problem was he didn't know how much LZ commited to that. If he had known, he could've easily won and countered. well, a) 12 drone scouting is way too late, b, this is a matter of experience and if two better zergs tell you that drones are not reliable, drones are not reliable. You might be right, but if its a matter of experience we're talking here you need to bring in dimaga and sen that will claim that they can drone scout banshees. roaches pre lair on or off creep are not fast enough to counter proper microed reapers or heaven forbid blue flame helions. The proper counter to reapers or regular helions is speedlings, and the proper counter to blue flame helions is losing countless drones.
1.How do you know you're better than me. And can you quote where Idra said 12 drone scout will not work. He might've said it, but I don't remember it. 12 drone won't be able to scout banshees lol. Banshees require tech lab of a starport, in which you require a factory first. You can scout that with different stuff. I'm saying you can find out basic openings such as reaper or rine/helion.
If he does have blue flames, you should have fast roaches. Are you sure roaches on creep cant catch up? Not 100% sure if its true or not. But 1/2 lings on creep can catch up for sure, and if he stops to hit that, than roaches can catch up.
Edit: To expand, if you scout a fast refinery without many troops and no factory and no reapers have attacked, and you're really suscipious then you should sac an overlord if you don't have lair by then.
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What's up with Huk's kamikaze collosi?
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All he needed was a high templar!
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On August 03 2010 04:48 Slow Motion wrote:
I'm sure all the Silver hate is completely justified. I mean where does he come off daring to play and beat someone who everyone KNOWS is better than him? I'm reminded of that one Terran who cheesed Bisu out of the OSL. I don't know what happened with that guy but I'm sure he's a nobody now, and hasn't contributed anything to Starcraft since then.
Also, I think Chapter 4 of Sun Tzu's Art of War says you must fight your opponent where he is strongest, or else you're a noob. I propose that in order to prevent this kind of thing from happening again, instead of playing games to see who wins we have a community vote on who is the strongest. That guy automatically wins.
HAHAHA. I created a TL account just to say how much I liked this post.
On topic, it's kind of absurd to keep arguing that TvZ is balanced, when it's widely acknowledged by players of all races that it isn't. Terran can wall themselves in and make ANY tech of their choosing on ONE goddamn base. Zerg's only chance against a decently played Terran is to expand everywhere and starve them out of resources, but that's assuming you can stop their turtle push.
Step one, as Idra said, is obviously to eliminate smart firing tanks.
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Is HuK laughing because idra got eliminated? I think "HAHAHA" would be better replaced with *sigh of relief that I don't have to be eliminated by him again*
of course that's just my opinion lol
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Hellions have a speed of 4.25 and speed roaches at 3+0.9 on creep so no they can't catch up.
Sfydjklm has practiced with and beaten tons of top players and seriously doubt you're better than him pandain with all due respect :p
12 drone scouts nothing except fast reapers really, and a lot of builds start with 1 reaper to scout. Lings can help scout reactor hellion stuff though, or often a tech lab factory means pre-igniter hellions or fast banshees which queens help against.
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On August 03 2010 08:36 Unfurl wrote:
Is HuK laughing because idra got eliminated? I think "HAHAHA" would be better replaced with *sigh of relief that I don't have to be eliminated by him again*
It was HuK's response to Idra doing the same thing in a thread about HuK.
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The lack of scouting here is going to hurt.
Nevermind, fast Obs.
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On August 03 2010 08:35 diesirae wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 04:48 Slow Motion wrote:
I'm sure all the Silver hate is completely justified. I mean where does he come off daring to play and beat someone who everyone KNOWS is better than him? I'm reminded of that one Terran who cheesed Bisu out of the OSL. I don't know what happened with that guy but I'm sure he's a nobody now, and hasn't contributed anything to Starcraft since then.
Also, I think Chapter 4 of Sun Tzu's Art of War says you must fight your opponent where he is strongest, or else you're a noob. I propose that in order to prevent this kind of thing from happening again, instead of playing games to see who wins we have a community vote on who is the strongest. That guy automatically wins. HAHAHA. I created a TL account just to say how much I liked this post. On topic, it's kind of absurd to keep arguing that TvZ is balanced, when it's widely acknowledged by players of all races that it isn't. Terran can wall themselves in and make ANY tech of their choosing on ONE goddamn base. Zerg's only chance against a decently played Terran is to expand everywhere and starve them out of resources, but that's assuming you can stop their turtle push. Step one, as Idra said, is obviously to eliminate smart firing tanks.
1.Go ask TLO and day9. He says TvZ is balanced.
2.Terran could already wall themselves in from even vanilla SC.
3. You can do anything, it depends on whether it will work well and come out in time. And if your opponet doesn't counter it.
4.Yup, that's the counter to a meching terran. Exploit their immobility. Expand, attack from different sides, and just delay them. Their turtle push is strong, incrediablly strong. But that's why I say you have to tech to Hive. Than if you get those out, Zerg is having a huge advantage.
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On August 03 2010 08:37 Slayer91 wrote:
Hellions have a speed of 4.25 and speed roaches at 3+0.9 on creep so no they can't catch up.
Sfydjklm has practiced with and beaten tons of top players and seriously doubt you're better than him pandain with all due respect :p
12 drone scouts nothing except fast reapers really, and a lot of builds start with 1 reaper to scout. Lings can help scout reactor hellion stuff though, or often a tech lab factory means pre-igniter hellions or fast banshees which queens help against.
He might be, makes since now that I think of it. After all he has almost 7000 posts. I just reacted on instinct and since I don't know him by name, I assumed he was just arragont. I sincerely apoligize.
Also, just to clarify, one drone will not scout everything. Poke with lings as you said and you can find out.
Hehe I feel silly, sorry sydjklm. But still I'm going to stick with my opinion.
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On August 03 2010 08:43 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 08:37 Slayer91 wrote:
Hellions have a speed of 4.25 and speed roaches at 3+0.9 on creep so no they can't catch up.
Sfydjklm has practiced with and beaten tons of top players and seriously doubt you're better than him pandain with all due respect :p
12 drone scouts nothing except fast reapers really, and a lot of builds start with 1 reaper to scout. Lings can help scout reactor hellion stuff though, or often a tech lab factory means pre-igniter hellions or fast banshees which queens help against. He might be, makes since now that I think of it. After all he has almost 7000 posts. I just reacted on instinct and since I don't know him by name, I assumed he was just arragont. I sincerely apoligize. Also, just to clarify, one drone will not scout everything. Poke with lings as you said and you can find out. Hehe I feel silly, sorry sydjklm. But still I'm going to stick with my opinion.
i deserve that, im half-penis. The discussion is irrelevant anyway, this isnt a balance thread and wether scouting is easy or not doesnt help anyone. For the record i scout on 10, on 9 on large maps><v
and aww tslayer you melt my heart, right back at you, if you werent random you'd already be dimaga-grade zerg
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EPT
