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On July 20 2010 13:41 st3roids wrote:
Fyi with taking more bases , he was laready capped and had thousands of surplass.
He needed diferent army composition , hydras are weak vs protoss due to guardian shield + force fields + collossi.
step one make infestors , use Fg on blinking stalkers , immobilize and kill them with fastlings.
step 2 Corruptors or Np on collossi
step 3 Baneling drops for bursting down protoss
step 4 try morph some corruptorts to broodlords
Opional step try pull out few ultras
--profit --
fyi tester didnt bother to have ht for storms or do drops or anything fancy just a standar protoss play which can be easily counter from any experience zerg.
Watch some cool or tlo games to see how is done imo
Come on, hydras aren't bad against protoss. It's just bad to build one unit and sit on a giant army of only that unit the entire game while your opponent spends 5 minutes climbing a whole other branch of the tech tree specifically to counter that one unit.
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Idra needs to learn to play out, he rages too hard...Z is known for its ability to re-mass quickly
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On July 20 2010 13:39 kajeus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 13:23 setzer wrote:On July 20 2010 12:12 kajeus wrote:On July 20 2010 12:10 Kalpman wrote:
Zerg vs Protoss is so damn onesided, GG IdrA, well played! Who are you people? Did you watch the game? IdrA played TERRIBLY. He is NOT a good zerg player. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Step away from the blind Idra hate and actually analyze the game for a second. Idra did NOT play terribly, he actually did everything right for what he saw based on his information and everything up until that final battle was almost flawless. Tester's adaptability and play that game was jaw-dropping. That game was unarguably one of the most technical I have seen in the entire beta and I do not fault Idra for losing to a better player (come on, Tester was an A-team BW pro). Tester is going to walk away with this tournament, almost everyone knows that. Even with those losses, Idra still has a very good chance to get out of his group. If you really believe Idra is such a horrible zerg than please provide everyone with a replay of you doing better against the best player in SC2. Dude, he massed hydras the whole game. Tester was switching tech for like 5 minutes to build the counters to mass light units. Idra did nothing but build more hydras. How is that impressive play?
Your credibility goes through the floor when you said he was NOT a good player.
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On July 20 2010 13:39 kajeus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 13:23 setzer wrote:On July 20 2010 12:12 kajeus wrote:On July 20 2010 12:10 Kalpman wrote:
Zerg vs Protoss is so damn onesided, GG IdrA, well played! Who are you people? Did you watch the game? IdrA played TERRIBLY. He is NOT a good zerg player. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Step away from the blind Idra hate and actually analyze the game for a second. Idra did NOT play terribly, he actually did everything right for what he saw based on his information and everything up until that final battle was almost flawless. Tester's adaptability and play that game was jaw-dropping. That game was unarguably one of the most technical I have seen in the entire beta and I do not fault Idra for losing to a better player (come on, Tester was an A-team BW pro). Tester is going to walk away with this tournament, almost everyone knows that. Even with those losses, Idra still has a very good chance to get out of his group. If you really believe Idra is such a horrible zerg than please provide everyone with a replay of you doing better against the best player in SC2. Dude, he massed hydras the whole game. Tester was switching tech for like 5 minutes to build the counters to mass light units. Idra did nothing but build more hydras. How is that impressive play?
He had hydra/ling against an almost 200/200 based zealot/stalker/sentry army. Tester did a very smart thing in getting the necessary collo upgrades and saving chrono boost for the dbl robo. By the time he actually scouted the collo the 3rd and 4th were just finishing which competed the 200/200 for Tester. When Tester's doom push came certainly after, Idra was in a situation where he could not change his unit comp up quick enough. Certainly there were faults in his scouting and he arguably should have attacking during the mid game when he had the pop advantage.
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On July 20 2010 13:47 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 13:39 kajeus wrote:On July 20 2010 13:23 setzer wrote:On July 20 2010 12:12 kajeus wrote:On July 20 2010 12:10 Kalpman wrote:
Zerg vs Protoss is so damn onesided, GG IdrA, well played! Who are you people? Did you watch the game? IdrA played TERRIBLY. He is NOT a good zerg player. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Step away from the blind Idra hate and actually analyze the game for a second. Idra did NOT play terribly, he actually did everything right for what he saw based on his information and everything up until that final battle was almost flawless. Tester's adaptability and play that game was jaw-dropping. That game was unarguably one of the most technical I have seen in the entire beta and I do not fault Idra for losing to a better player (come on, Tester was an A-team BW pro). Tester is going to walk away with this tournament, almost everyone knows that. Even with those losses, Idra still has a very good chance to get out of his group. If you really believe Idra is such a horrible zerg than please provide everyone with a replay of you doing better against the best player in SC2. Dude, he massed hydras the whole game. Tester was switching tech for like 5 minutes to build the counters to mass light units. Idra did nothing but build more hydras. How is that impressive play? Your credibility goes through the floor when you said he was NOT a good player.
I'm sorry that this is the conversation we're having. Who cares what I think?
What matters is that Idra played laughably this game, and it's OBVIOUS. You do not build one unit and then sit on that unit the whole game. This game is too chock-full of counters.
He had hydra/ling against an almost 200/200 based zealot/stalker/sentry army. Tester did a very smart thing in getting the necessary collo upgrades and saving chrono boost for the dbl robo. By the time he actually scouted the collo the 3rd and 4th were just finishing which competed the 200/200 for Tester. When Tester's doom push came certainly after, Idra was in a situation where he could not change his unit comp up quick enough. Certainly there were faults in his scouting and he arguably should have attacking during the mid game when he had the pop advantage.
I mean, come on. Idra knew that Tester knew exactly what he was making: mass hydra. What is Tester going to do in that situation? Build the counters! What did he do? Build the counters!
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Idra played really bad .... I mean come on, it wasn't his first PvZ vs a P going 2 Base collossus push, it's so common strat every Zerg out there know that you need to start pumping corruptors around 170 pop or just choose to go for the infestor strat but you can't mass hydras to 200 pop and hope to win when you'r opponent is doing the Counter mix of that specific unit. Also he had 200 pop army, but was researching Ultralisk upgrades but not a single ultralisk out. He was on 3 bases, usually the timing for the ultra is when you expend to you'r third base, he had his third base running for ages and no ultra, he just waited so long to transition. I really think he wanted to push his luck and be stubborn with his hydras, which was pretty stupid.
And for game 1, it was even worst, why try to force the front like that. Tech to lair get nydus and win vs his 2 sentries 1 zealot without the need of suiciding against his Canon wall off.
I think Idra is too stubborn and get pissed too fast to be anything neer a good player. Ok he macros well, who cares, he have no imagination, each time he get thrown out of his game he give up. Just watch his games against Masque and you'll understand.
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On July 20 2010 13:33 Chronopolis wrote:
TL DR: imo idra take more more bases when he knows tester can't push out, nydus to stall, toss ball can only be in one place at a single time.
Hm did everyone really miss that Tester was constantly putting pressure on Idra threatening with a zealot/stalker/sentry push? Idra wasn't just blindly massing 200/200 hydras he was pressured into it.
Sure he could have played differently but it's not that easy at all.
- nydus/drops.. risky and might not work at all, and the constant pressure makes this hard
- set up a spinecrawler defense (and keep some pop freed up for higher tech).. maybe, but woulda hurt his econ and he had 2 entry points to cover that tester could push in from
- get corrupters preemptively.. tester could have just as easily went HTs that is probably what made it difficult to blindly make these potentially useless units, when already pressured
- infestors.. shoulda gotten a few of those imo
- tech to ultras faster (i believe he was doing this but got there too late) to run down the FFs and tank the front.. seems like a good option but he might have gotten run down earlier if he didn't max pop so very hard to say
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On July 20 2010 13:52 wintergt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 13:33 Chronopolis wrote:
TL DR: imo idra take more more bases when he knows tester can't push out, nydus to stall, toss ball can only be in one place at a single time. Hm did everyone really miss that Tester was constantly putting pressure on Idra threatening with a zealot/stalker/sentry push? Idra wasn't just blindly massing 200/200 hydras he was pressured into it. Sure he could have played differently but it's not that easy at all. - nydus/drops.. risky and might not work at all, and the constant pressure makes this hard - set up a spinecrawler defense (and keep some pop freed up for higher tech).. maybe, but woulda hurt his econ and he had 2 entry points to cover that tester could push in from - get corrupters preemptively.. tester could have just as easily went HTs that is probably what made it difficult to blindly make these potentially useless units, when already pressured - infestors.. shoulda gotten a few of those imo - tech to ultras faster (i believe he was doing this but got there too late) to run down the FFs and tank the front.. seems like a good option but he might have gotten run down earlier if he didn't max pop so very hard to say
How about:
-scout
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there isn't a point in telling idra what he could've done right or why he was bad that game
he knows we all know it was a mistake giong 200/200 hydras. he just had a bad day or maybe the pressure got to him who knows. everyone knows how good idra can be
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IdrA choked nuff said, next time you belittle his game try playing under the pressure he's got. Sure he can be a self glorifying prick but don't start listing off things he should have done like you would have been able to pull off anything with finesse in that situation.
Being mentally prepared and having calm nerves will get you farther then days of practice that's the lesson to be learned.
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On July 20 2010 14:00 Whomp wrote:
IdrA choked nuff said, next time you belittle his game try playing under the pressure he's got. Sure he can be a self glorifying prick but don't start listing off things he should have done like you would have been able to pull off anything with finesse in that situation.
Being mentally prepared and having calm nerves will get you farther then days of practice that's the lesson to be learned.
Ok, ok, poor Idra.
Be that as it may, he's a pro and should put on a better show.
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The problem with all your arguments about IdrA being surprised is that IdrA already played Tester on Scrap Station, and he lost to the exact same thing. In fact, Tester attacked from the exact same angle, from the exact same location, in almost exactly the same situation - with IdrA maxed and himself at 4-5 colossi + support.
Also, IdrA picked the map (it was loser's pick), so cries of map imbalance should take that into account.
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Colossus benefit heavily from +2 or +3 attack, so it makes perfect sense to mix Colossus with Twilight Council.
Also, Blink is very helpful to defeat air units, which are rather a vulnerability when you're relying so heavily on Colossus.
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It wasn't just the unit composition, but Tester's positioning and forcefields in the last battle were perfect. He took minimal losses while his Collosi were able to take out all of the Hydras.
Idra is a good player, but he got outplayed by Tester in these games just like when they met in that other tournament final.
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Thanks for the same day uploads !!
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On July 20 2010 14:28 zTz wrote:
Thanks for the same day uploads !!
+1!
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Idra had a "Mental Block" vs Tester.. LOL.. I think he's scared of Tester.
nah, all joking aside.. He just played worse than Tester that day. Just like in anything else sometimes you just have good or bad days. They're only human.
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That one phoenix from Tester was a pretty expensive scout. He just made one thing out of that stargate the whole game, right? I guess maybe he wanted to structure up in case he saw mutas or maybe corrupters or something other than a ton of hydra.
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IdrA vs Tester:
Game 1: That pylon block by Tester was sick, and is another good reason to do speedling expand instead of a straight up expansion. Personally, I think IdrA's fault was when he sacrificed all of those Lings trying to kill the Zealot. He should have either played a straight up macro game or just used a Baneling nest. Enough Banelings to kill the Pylon might have won IdrA the game.
Game 2: I think IdrA's scouting was bad, not so much his play. TestR had a Stargate and enough Warp Gates for two bases. IdrA probably assumed he was going to do a pure Gateway + High Templar composition because of the Blink Stalkers. The Blink Stalkers also denied the scouts of Robo Tech.
When he finally discovered the Colossi, it was a bit too late and he would have needed Ultralisks anyway. Those Forcefields would deny any push and they just raped because of Scrap Stations small choke attack path. So I wouldn't say that IdrA just mindlessly massed Hydras, it was a good choice based on the information he had. And he couldn't make a decisive push with his 200/200 army because of Force Fields.
That is what I think happened in Game 2 anyway, I don't have a replay of the game to just spectate IdrA's POV to see what information he had. Anyone know where I could find a replay by any chance?
- tech to ultras faster (i believe he was doing this but got there too late) to run down the FFs and tank the front.. seems like a good option but he might have gotten run down earlier if he didn't max pop so very hard to say
I agree that this may have changed things, but the choke on Scrap Station is so small, Ultralisks might have been a bad choice. The Ultras might get stuck and the Hydralisks might not have been able to fire.
On July 20 2010 14:31 retro-noob wrote:+1!
Nice contribution to the topic >_> These aren't the Battle.net forums...
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Idra really should switch to Terran. I'm not sure why he's hesitant to do that. Maybe because he had important games coming up and didn't want to lose his edge with Zerg? idk.
Really though, Terran mech would suit Idra *perfectly*. He can just play passively & macro up until he has a 200/200 mech army and roll over anything else in the game.
I really don't think the problem is necessarily with Idra's play, but the race that he plays with. His passivity really sets him back with the weaker Zerg units.
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EPT
