|
On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss.
Yeah, when idra was playing tvz in broodwar going bio his micro ability must have been terrible......
wot?
|
On May 21 2010 16:56 Odies wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss. Zenio played macro style and won, did you see the game?
No he didn't. Macro style would be heavy droning and expoing followed by a high-pop battle. Populations never exceeded 100 in either of those games.
|
On May 21 2010 16:57 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss. Yeah, when idra was playing tvz in broodwar going bio his micro ability must have been terrible...... wot?
His micro is fine. But his style is to go for the macro advantage, and he shines most in those games where populations reach 200/200 and he's able to grab several expansions. Single-base play was never IdrA's specialty and he seems to have a lot of trouble with it.
|
On May 21 2010 17:00 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 16:57 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss. Yeah, when idra was playing tvz in broodwar going bio his micro ability must have been terrible...... wot? His micro is fine. But his style is to go for the macro advantage, and he shines most in those games where populations reach 200/200 and he's able to grab several expansions. Single-base play was never IdrA's specialty and he seems to have a lot of trouble with it.
And once again, as I mentioned yesterday in this thread, people are basing this off of 2 games in this tournament where he lost and the style he prefers to play against foreigners...
Making judgment on playing ability with such a small window is meaningless.
|
On May 21 2010 17:02 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 17:00 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:57 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss. Yeah, when idra was playing tvz in broodwar going bio his micro ability must have been terrible...... wot? His micro is fine. But his style is to go for the macro advantage, and he shines most in those games where populations reach 200/200 and he's able to grab several expansions. Single-base play was never IdrA's specialty and he seems to have a lot of trouble with it. And once again, as I mentioned yesterday in this thread, people are basing this off of 2 games in this tournament where he lost and the style he prefers to play against foreigners... Making judgment on playing ability with such a small window is meaningless.
IdrA has been playing quite a while, and I think it's possible to judge his style by the games that he's won and the games he's lost. For the most part, he wins games when the game goes past the 10 minute mark, and loses game when it does not. This is true vs. both foreigners and Koreans.
|
On May 21 2010 16:58 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 16:56 Odies wrote:On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss. Zenio played macro style and won, did you see the game? No he didn't. Macro style would be heavy droning and expoing followed by a high-pop battle. Populations never exceeded 100 in either of those games.
Ok, semantics aside, he expoed and went far heavier on drones than FZ, how would he have found a window to exploit an earlier expo?
|
On May 21 2010 17:04 Odies wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 16:58 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:56 Odies wrote:On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss. Zenio played macro style and won, did you see the game? No he didn't. Macro style would be heavy droning and expoing followed by a high-pop battle. Populations never exceeded 100 in either of those games. Ok, semantics aside, he expoed and went far heavier on drones than FZ, how would he have found a window to exploit an earlier expo?
He found a window to assault FZ's base even though FZ was all-in. You don't think he would've been able to stop a FE?
|
Freedom is so talented, I have to admit~
|
On May 21 2010 17:04 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 17:02 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 21 2010 17:00 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:57 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss. Yeah, when idra was playing tvz in broodwar going bio his micro ability must have been terrible...... wot? His micro is fine. But his style is to go for the macro advantage, and he shines most in those games where populations reach 200/200 and he's able to grab several expansions. Single-base play was never IdrA's specialty and he seems to have a lot of trouble with it. And once again, as I mentioned yesterday in this thread, people are basing this off of 2 games in this tournament where he lost and the style he prefers to play against foreigners... Making judgment on playing ability with such a small window is meaningless. IdrA has been playing quite a while, and I think it's possible to judge his style by the games that he's won and the games he's lost. For the most part, he wins games when the game goes past the 10 minute mark, and loses game when it does not. This is true vs. both foreigners and Koreans.
He plays a macro intensive style against people he believes have lesser ability than he does (granted, a large majority of the people he plays, but this will change and to suggest he wont either is further insult). That leads to him playing a macro game where his abilities will put him further in the lead. This i not the case in how he plays "normally". I'd also love to see your statistics on games he's won before 10 minutes and after 10 minutes instead of making declarations based on nothing more than assumptions.
|
|
|
Freedom is absolutely sick. His decisions were so good.
He's probably the best player right now...
|
|
|
On May 21 2010 17:06 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 17:04 Odies wrote:On May 21 2010 16:58 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:56 Odies wrote:On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss. Zenio played macro style and won, did you see the game? No he didn't. Macro style would be heavy droning and expoing followed by a high-pop battle. Populations never exceeded 100 in either of those games. Ok, semantics aside, he expoed and went far heavier on drones than FZ, how would he have found a window to exploit an earlier expo? He found a window to assault FZ's base even though FZ was all-in. You don't think he would've been able to stop a FE?
He didn't "find a window" to attack, FZ was 1base allin and after numerous failed attacks he got outmacroed, this is clearly not going anywhere so I'm out of this discussion.
|
On May 21 2010 17:07 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 17:04 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 17:02 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 21 2010 17:00 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:57 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:52 Azarkon wrote:On May 21 2010 16:47 Odies wrote:
Nice defense I guess, but FZ could easily have expanded early as well. Those allin baneling builds just seem a bit random. If he did, I'm sure Zenio would've found a window to exploit it. This sort of fast paced ZvZ is precisely why IdrA frequently gets eliminated early by Korean Zergs. His macro style simply doesn't come into play, and I'm starting to think that he might've been better off staying Terran (as TvT is still quite macro intensive) or even Protoss. Yeah, when idra was playing tvz in broodwar going bio his micro ability must have been terrible...... wot? His micro is fine. But his style is to go for the macro advantage, and he shines most in those games where populations reach 200/200 and he's able to grab several expansions. Single-base play was never IdrA's specialty and he seems to have a lot of trouble with it. And once again, as I mentioned yesterday in this thread, people are basing this off of 2 games in this tournament where he lost and the style he prefers to play against foreigners... Making judgment on playing ability with such a small window is meaningless. IdrA has been playing quite a while, and I think it's possible to judge his style by the games that he's won and the games he's lost. For the most part, he wins games when the game goes past the 10 minute mark, and loses game when it does not. This is true vs. both foreigners and Koreans. He plays a macro intensive style against people he believes have lesser ability than he does (granted, a large majority of the people he plays, but this will change and to suggest he wont either is further insult). That leads to him playing a macro game where his abilities will put him further in the lead. This i not the case in how he plays "normally". I'd also love to see your statistics on games he's won before 10 minutes and after 10 minutes instead of making declarations based on nothing more than assumptions.
Okay, then let's look at his tourney/showmatch results.
HDH:
IdrA dropped one game to -orb-, mainly because (as he himself said later) he failed to cancel his hatchery during -orb-'s early zealot pressure. That one act basically cost him the entire game, though he played it past the mark.
IdrA vs. Moo:
In the three ladder games IdrA played vs. Moo, both of the games he lost was to early harass/pushes by Moo. Neither of the games went past the initial stages, and both ended in IdrA quitting without having much of an army. In the game he played vs. Moo on Metalopolis, IdrA quit instantly after failing to stop a bunker rush in the 3 minute mark.
IdrA vs. Joseki:
In the two games IdrA lost to Joseki, one was on Steppes when he lost to an early Marauder push, the other was on Incineration Zone when he lost to an early Thor push. Neither game went past these early pushes.
IdrA vs. Check:
IdrA lost to Check instantly as Check was able to get roaches in his base and snipe his spire right after it finished building.
IdrA vs. Huk:
Idra lost two games to Huk. The first was in an actual macro game when he failed to stop Huk's colossi. The second was instantly to void rays.
17173 World Cup:
Idra lost two games, one to Laerung and one to F91. Both were ZvZs in which he lost instantly because he built roaches and they were able to get mutas. None made it past this mark.
There. Those are the games I remember IdrA losing in his recent times.
|
|
|
too many spine crawlers not enuf mutas
|
And here's the point I want to make, and I'm glad you actually made an effort (I wont bother pointing out which ones are the absurd examples, since I'd hope most people can tell). Those are all of the things you can think of, when he has hundreds of games of SC2 during its varied patches before the game is actually released. You're making a claim he can't play ZvZ based on a sample side of a game that is constantly being patched with weak evidence.
I'm not trying to pick a fight or argue; but do not pretend to have some knowledge the rest of us don't regarding Idra's abilities at SC2 based upon mediocre assumptions and poor anecdotal evidence.
|
On May 21 2010 17:22 jws wrote:
too many spine crawlers not enuf mutas
jap this wall was kind off strange
|
Azarkon what are you trying to say/prove??
Take it to a different forum...
|
where are those commercials from? lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
