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[G] ZvT Hydra Lurker

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-28 12:41:13
March 16 2017 14:20 GMT
#1
Video Guide:
+ Show Spoiler +



Greetings, some of you might remember me from Guides such as 3 Roach Opener vs Terran and the Swarmhost Infestor Style vs Protoss.

Who am I / Credentials

+ Show Spoiler +
I am a Swiss Grandmaster Zerg residing around 6.1k MMR on EU and in the top 50 on NA. I also stream most of my games on twitch @ http://www.twitch.tv/railgan



The Idea:


+ Show Spoiler +
Terrans almost always open with a Reaper. By sending two Lings around the reaper we are able to do economic damage and get good scouting Information. It is very early on that the Terran decides what kind of opener he is going for.

Further we get a quick evolution chamber into +1 Carapace Upgrade. This allows us to be completly versus the 16 marine drop. We try to aim for an early game drop with 8 lings by using the evolution chamber. The 8 lings can deal a good amount of damage and provide valuable scouting.

In the Mid Game we use mass Hydras on a fairly low eco to stop the Terran aggression. Once we have our 1/2 Upgrades, the Lurker Den and Overlord Speed complete we are able to start attacking the Terran with both drops as well as frontal attacks.

If we are unable to close out the game here we will add either Broodlords, Vipers or both to our endgame composition to close out the Game.



The Build Order

http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/47543/

+ Show Spoiler +

EARLY GAME

13 Overlord
17 Pool
18 Hatch
17 Gas
16 2 more drones rally them to the gas
@Pool 2 Lings try to evade the Reaper with them and send them to the Terran Natural
Queen use it to defend vs the Reaper and inject
@100 Gas Lingspeed
20/22 1 more drone send it to the Gas
22/22 1 Overlord
@Queen start another Queen in the Main
@Natural start a Queen at the Natural (total of 3 Queens)
___
Now build only Drones and Overlords
@3:00 Evolution Chamber
@3:15 Optional 8 Lings for Drop --> rally them to the Overlord to drop. Drop the Lings immediatly versus Hellion Openers and Drop them @5:00 vs 16 Marines Opener.
@150 Gas Carapace Upgrade (+1 Armor)
@100 Gas Lair
@32 Drones on Minerals (around 3:30-4:00) 3 more gas
@4:20 Mass Ling Production
@Lair +2 Carapace Upgrade, Evolution Chamber for Missile Upgrade, Hydra Den + 3rd as soon as you feel save
___________________________________

MID GAME


Feel free to delay droning your 3rd
Build mass Hydras. All gas goes to Hydras
@Hydraden -> Hydra speed
@ Hydra Speed --> Lurker Den + Overlord Speed
@3rd saturation start 4th
Morph 5 Overlord
@Lurker Den --> morph Lurkers (atleast 6)
@Lurkers -> Drop 4 Lurkers + 11 Hydras + 1 Queen (5 Overlords) into the Terran base while pushing / defending.
________________________

LATE GAME
@Drop build Infestation Pit
@Infestation Pit Start Hive + Spire
@Hive Vipers / Broodlords and many upgrades





Adjustments:
+ Show Spoiler +


Vs 16 Marine Drop (2 Barracks)
Delay the 3rd and you might want to go for 5 total Queens. Build a lot of Hydralisks and play defensive. Drop 8 Lings around the 4:50 when the Terran moves out. You can also poke him at the front with some lings at the same time. If you do this it will be really hard to defend you 3rd base though. It's completly fine to delay your 3rd until your Hydras are out and upgrades are done.

Vs Single Factory

Usually Hellions so just make sure that you have an overlord spotting for hellion drops in your main / natural. Drop Lings early on when you notice his Hellions move out.

vs Double Factory
Usually Hellbat Cyclone what you need is 3 defensive Queens. Build a Baneling Nest early on. Ling Queen Bane should do fine. If you are really worried throw down a spine and feel free to delay your 3rd. You might want to play 2 Hatch Mutalisks instead. Be careful of Liberators / Banshees!!!

vs Banshees (Techlab Starport)
Usually coupled with Hellbats / Hellions. Use a defensive overseer and you might want to add a spore per base and definitly go up to 5 Queens total. Definitly get Overlordspeed so you can catch the Bancheese.


vs mass Tank (midgame)
Some Terrans will just drop everything they have while turtling with tanks at home. Mass ling is very useful here and it will be hard to push into the Terran. Instead try to use drops to your advantage and get to Vipers / Broodlords as quickly as possible

vs pure bio (midgame)
He should not be able to push into you at all. Use some defensive Lurkers / Hydras to shut down drops. If you can land a good drop or move into him you can straight up kill him. Mass Hydra alone should be almost enough to completly kill your opponent.

vs mass Banshee / Liberator
Use mostly Hydras / Queens here. Should be pretty easy to shutdown the build.

vs Ground Mech
Try to cut lurkers they won't do much. Go for a fast Hive and use Ling Hydra Viper Broodlord (Queen). You can also use a classic Mass Swarmhost style to shutdown the Mech build.

vs Mass Raven
Cut Lurkers. I prefer using infestor corruptor swarmhost versus this composition. Mass Hydralisk instead of Corruptors can do really well especially if you don't have as big of a Lead.


The Composition

+ Show Spoiler +

The build uses 3 Core Units:
Lings help versus tanks and "tank" damage for your Hydras and Lurkers
Hydras do erally wel versus bio Terran and shutdown medivacs and drops.
Lurkers can be used as drop defense, as push defense, are strong when dropped themselves and can also be used offensively in pushes.

The build uses 3 support Units
Queens are used to tank damage in the early / mid game versus Marine Pushes. Their Health and transfuses should not be underestimated.
Vipers are used to abduct tanks and blinding cloud them.
Broodlord are used to break through mass tank lines.


Using Lurkers
+ Show Spoiler +

Lurkers can be burrowed at your own bases together with a spine to quickly clear drops. Keep in mind that a Lurker alone will cause the bio to still kill your drones. If you have a spine they will shoot the spine instead.

They can be burrowed "randomly" on the map to force scans from the Terran.

Dropping them into the Terran Production together with some drops will completly shutdown his production and is a easy way to secure a win.

Keep them away from the Tanks!! It's okay to be pushed back in the midgame while you are going for your own Drop. Don't throw away your and instead force your opponent to attack into you. Once you have vipers you can counter his push.


Vipers vs Broodlords
+ Show Spoiler +

Vipers are better if your in a worse situation economically. Broodlords are more effective if you already are in a good situation.
The more Tanks the better the Broodlords get. If you have Lurkers underneath your Broodlords it will be almost impossible for your Opponent to push into them with Marines.


Using Vipers
+ Show Spoiler +

I almost never use parasitic bomb except versus mass vikings. Usually try to abduct stray tanks and if you can hit 2-3 use blinding cloud. The blinding cloud is also very useful when you have Terran bio pushing into you to create space betweent he bio units and your Lurkers.


Videos
+ Show Spoiler +




















If you want to see the Build in Action you can always watch me on Twitch @ http://www.twitch.tv/railgan

Thank you all for reading
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
March 18 2017 00:12 GMT
#2
Thanks for the guide. I'm not following it the way it is as I'm more focused on eco, but the viper idea is what I was looking for when I tried making lurkers work in ZvT myself (half a year ago).

Works wonders meanwhile. I guess if terrans will start realizing doom drops are available with this style there will be more turrets, but meanwhile these doom drops crush them. And if not, vipers make it work vs the PF, tank and libs (the terran counters to lurker hydra ling).

The hydra buff and lib nerf also helped.
Phaenoman
Profile Joined February 2013
568 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-18 00:48:51
March 18 2017 00:47 GMT
#3
I like playing Hydra Lurker and Viper in my ZvTs. Gonna have a look at the stuff u got there. Ty!
Random is hard work dude...
Aelendis
Profile Joined February 2011
Belgium892 Posts
March 19 2017 12:19 GMT
#4
So I've been experimenting with this style a bit and I have to say it is way more fun to play than ling-bane or roach-ravager.
Thanks for the guide!
loginn
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France815 Posts
March 20 2017 18:03 GMT
#5
Why do you expand so slowly though ? Is early agression so hard to hold with this build ?
Stephano, Taking skill to the bank since IPL3. Also Lucifron and FBH
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
March 20 2017 18:17 GMT
#6
Railgan likes tech builds. Its goes for both, ZvT and ZvP.
You can make tech builds work on GM level, as shown by Railgan, but you can go for similar stuff with eco builds.

I'm going for the hydra lurker viper combo with an eco build (third at ~3:15, second gas at 4:00, and 6 gases only at 3 mineral lines saturated). Defending early on with queens and lings, get banes and bane speed, and aim for hydra lurker lings (with leftover banes) from there. The drops and the viper support is what I was missing when I tried making lurkers work myself in ZvT.

These doom drops sometimes make Terrans say GG on the spot.
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
March 20 2017 20:03 GMT
#7
I would be interested in knowing if the OP ever delays hydralisk production in favor of more bases or evo upgrades and just lives with ling bane in meantime. hydra seems to be xpensive this early, but i could be wrong.
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
March 20 2017 21:01 GMT
#8
On March 21 2017 03:03 loginn wrote:
Why do you expand so slowly though ? Is early agression so hard to hold with this build ?


You don't really expand slowly. It is just a standard 2 Hatch Opener. Instead of Mutalisks I open with Hydralisks. Delaying the Expansions allows me to take no damage from the opponent while still being even in Economy. I can then either punish him with my Units or play it greedy with mass eco.

On March 21 2017 05:03 c0sm0naut wrote:
I would be interested in knowing if the OP ever delays hydralisk production in favor of more bases or evo upgrades and just lives with ling bane in meantime. hydra seems to be xpensive this early, but i could be wrong.


You need something to deal with the 16 marine Drop. You can also open the Standard 3 Hatch Style but I prefer going 2 Hatch into Hydralisk production. Feels safer and cutting Hydralisks doesn't really make sense in that scenario as they help greatly with drops / banshees.
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
March 28 2017 12:42 GMT
#9
Added a link to the Spawning Tool in the Build Order in case anyone uses that.

Further added a Video on playing 3 Roach into Hydra Lurker for the 3 Roach Opener Lovers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7mJQVEDTI
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
jpg06051992
Profile Joined July 2015
United States580 Posts
March 29 2017 05:43 GMT
#10
Is it possible to mix in any banelings with this build order? Can you cut upgrades or does that leave you far too vulnerable to upgraded bio? I watch alot of your games and I really like the Ling/Hydra but I find myself just not able to take down the bio ball without banelings.

vs. mech I usually just go standard roach/Hydra/Viper into Brood Lord so I'm a big fan of the unit, it just feels weak vs bio

"SO MANY BANELINGS!"
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
March 29 2017 16:49 GMT
#11
On March 29 2017 14:43 jpg06051992 wrote:
Is it possible to mix in any banelings with this build order? Can you cut upgrades or does that leave you far too vulnerable to upgraded bio? I watch alot of your games and I really like the Ling/Hydra but I find myself just not able to take down the bio ball without banelings.

vs. mech I usually just go standard roach/Hydra/Viper into Brood Lord so I'm a big fan of the unit, it just feels weak vs bio


The strength of the build is that your hydras will have +1 carapace before your opponent finishes +1 attack if he goes for the 16 marine drop and your +1/+2 will often times finish before your opponent even gets to +1/+1. Upgraded Hydralisks have a huge edge on Marines and only tanks are able to stop them.

You can however add Banelings to the mix but I don't really like doing that. They often times get stuck behind the Hydralisks and die to splash or you dont get enough lings to go with the banes and the banes just end up die.

Ling Bane Hydra and Ling Bane Muta play pretty much the same way. You have a stronger fighting unit that is better against widowmines and much worse against tanks.

Example Replay of upgraded Hydras vs Marines: http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/4612317
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
SilverHawk1
Profile Joined February 2016
12 Posts
July 04 2017 10:38 GMT
#12
Are you supposed to be able to get lurkers in time if the terran goes for a two base marine tank push?
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
July 04 2017 12:03 GMT
#13
On July 04 2017 19:38 SilverHawk1 wrote:
Are you supposed to be able to get lurkers in time if the terran goes for a two base marine tank push?


I play hydra ling bane with a lurker follow-up, and 2 base pushes (tank bio pushes) are held simply with queen ling bane, and if I have the time then hydra queen ling bane.

If you have a surround with the queens soaking the first tank shots then these pushes are pushed back easily.

I play a more eco style and tech slower then Railgan, so may be he has his own way of holding these pushes.
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
July 04 2017 13:00 GMT
#14
On July 04 2017 19:38 SilverHawk1 wrote:
Are you supposed to be able to get lurkers in time if the terran goes for a two base marine tank push?

Maybe this Replay: http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/5079186 (not sure if it is a perfect replay but I remembered playing a game like that hope it fits)
or this Video:

will help you.

In short pull Queens and try to make them take the damage from the tanks while your hydras dps everything down.

Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
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