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[G] ZvP Swarmhost Infestor vs all Protoss Styles

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-28 12:38:24
February 03 2017 16:00 GMT
#1
[image loading]



Video Guide:
+ Show Spoiler +


NEW Video Showcase - Mass Infestor vs Skytoss
+ Show Spoiler +


Greetings, some of you might remember me from Guides such as 3 Roach Opener vs Terran and the 19 / 35 Drone allins vs Protoss.

Who am I / Credentials

+ Show Spoiler +
I am a Swiss Grandmaster Zerg residing around 6.1k MMR on EU and in the top 50 on NA and I am here to show you all my solution for the ZvP Matchup to deal with any and all Protoss Openers and Strategies. Whether you struggle against Archon Drops, Dts, Carriers, Chargelot Immortal Archon, Colossi or phoenix openers. This Strategy might not be easy to execute for lower league players but it has been quite effective.


The Idea:


+ Show Spoiler +
Long ago Infestors were OP. All races feared them in the golden age of Zerg also knows as Lings of Liberty. Infested Terrans were too strong. Fungal shut down complete builds and any all army movement. However, come HotS the Infestor largely disappeared. In the latest Patch the Infestor was buffed once again and is now able to cast neural parasite while burrowed.

Since I am a big fan of the Swarmhost Unit I was trying to find a way to make them work. However, Locusts don't shoot up, Colossi burn them alive and Archons kill them with their Splash. Additionally Chargelots seem to do really well against them so I was looking for a way around all this. What I found was the Infestor.

By opening early Infestors I can easily shut down most aggressive Protoss openers. If I am up against a Carrier Protoss I can just spam their base with Infested Terrans watch as their unupgraded Interceptors fall apart against the power of 50 Infested Terrans which also kill their Stargates / Cybercores. Once I have Infestors I can add the Swarmhost on top and use the Infestor's Neural Ability to shutdown Colossi / Archons while the locusts mow through their Army. Their Chargelots will explode against my Banelings and I will win since I have FREE UNITS.


The Build Order NEW UPDATED

+ Show Spoiler +
I will try to give you guys as good of a Build Order as I can. It's kind of hard because I am still experimenting and adjusting a lot depending on what I scout.

Standard Build
+ Show Spoiler +

13 Overlord
17 Hatchery
18 Gas
17 Spawning Pool Rally next drones to gas
19 Overlord
100% Pool 2x Queens, 2 Lings
@100 Gas Ling Speed
100% Queens 2x Queens
@2:45 Evolution Chamber
@Evo +1 Melee
@3:30 Lair, Extractor,
@3:40 2x Extractor
@4:00 3rd Hatchery
100% Lair (@4:30) Infest. Pit, Baneling Nest
100% Infest. Pit (@5:10) Pathogen Glands, Burrow Upgrade
@Pathogen Glands build Infestors or Swarmhosts as you see fit.
@+1 Melee Go 2 Evo Chamber and Melee + Ranged Upgrades. If you are dealind with Carriers go Ranged + Carapace instead.
Core army Composition is Ling Bane Infestor Swarmhost (Queen)
Don't forget Neural Parasite. I usually get it once I have the Infestors on the field / after Pathogen Glands



2 Base Swarmhost without Infestors
+ Show Spoiler +




http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/47540/

13 0:12 Overlord
17 0:53 Hatchery
18 1:09 Extractor
17 1:12 Spawning Pool
19 1:38 Overlord
19 1:59 Queen, Zergling x2
23 2:05 Queen
26 2:14 Metabolic Boost
27 2:22 Zergling x4
29 2:25 Evolution Chamber
28 2:32 Zergling x4
28 2:34 Queen
32 2:44 Queen
36 3:04 Zerg Melee Weapons Level 1
36 3:12 Overlord
36 3:20 Overlord
36 3:21 Extractor
47 3:53 Lair
47 3:56 Extractor
47 3:59 Roach Warren
47 4:07 Zergling x2
52 4:31 Extractor x2
52 4:33 Overlord
50 4:41 Roach
52 4:56 Infestation Pit
52 4:59 Roach x2
60 5:00 Glial Reconstitution
60 5:04 Zergling x4
63 5:12 Zergling x4
63 5:13 Overseer
64 5:19 Hatchery
69 5:29 Zerg Melee Weapons Level 2
73 5:44 Roach
75 6:06 Roach x4
75 6:09 Hatchery
82 6:15 Baneling Nest
82 6:26 Swarm Host x4
90 6:34 Swarm Host x3
96 6:42 Swarm Host
101 6:55 Swarm Host
106 7:12 Baneling x9
117 7:45 Swarm Host
127 8:13 Spine Crawler, Spore Crawler
132 8:21 Overseer
136 9:25 Baneling
135 9:52 Infestor x2



Adjustments

vs TC Adept Allins:
+ Show Spoiler +
Replay vs Tails http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/activeArmy/4314958
Get a Baneling nest ~3:45 at the latest. Spam a lot of Lings don't drone your 3rd. Just try to hold on. Swarmhosts are going to be more effective than Infestors in these Scenarios but it will be very difficult.


vs TC Adept Openers:
+ Show Spoiler +
Don't really have a Replay but it's pretty much the same as vs Allins. Just get a Baneling Nest and use your Queens to zone a lot.


vs Straight Carrier
+ Show Spoiler +
sc2replaystats.com Spam their Wall with Infested Terrans and then lings and just kill them.. They automatically lose.
You may also use Swarmhost Runbys ala http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/activeArmy/4325685
or go for a straight mass Neural Push with a lot of Infestors https://sc2replaystats.com/replay/4335486

Alternatively here is a Video Analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg6WDXYfF7E


vs Archon Drop
+ Show Spoiler +


Replay can be found in the Description of the Video.

I use a lot of Queens to shut down the Drop. The early Lair means that I don't need any Spores as I can build Overseers. Infestors allow me to Fungal the Prism and kill it


vs Oracle Openers
+ Show Spoiler +


Replay can be found in the Description of the Video.

I use Queens and two early Spores to shutdown the Oracle. Spores around 3:45 I believe


vs Phoenix Openers
+ Show Spoiler +


Replay can be found in the Description of the Video.

I delay my Spores a little bit. I use the Queens to zone the Phoenix and eventually try to time Burrow + Infestors at the same time so I can immediatly fungal the Phoenix and kill them.


The Strategy

+ Show Spoiler +
The Strategy early on is to survive, get your 3 Base Economy going and keeping your Infestors / Swarmhosts alive. Once you have stabalized you want to harrass your Opponent with the Swarmhosts while guarding those with your Ling Bane Infestors composition. You do this until you have enough Swarmhosts to take a straight up fight and enough Infestors with Neural Parasite to Neural his Army.

As an example the final Composition against a Sky Toss might look something like this:
[image loading]

Versus Sky Toss you definitly need either Corruptors or Hydras as Support. I usually prefer Hydras but Corruptors can also work fine as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dgtyCfj0KY

Versus Archon Immortal Chargelot it's important to have a large amount of Banelings on the field: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJKmXtAN54



Transition
+ Show Spoiler +
Eventually, if you are e.g. playing vs Stalker Colossus and can't quite get it down with Swarmhost Infestor, you can always transition by going Hive (already got the Infestation Pit) or Mutalisks (opponent will struggle to deal with Mutas and Swarmhosts and Fungals...).

As an example I present the following game vs king Tesla: sc2replaystats.com

In this Game I transition from ~30 Swarmhosts to Ultralisks and eventually add Broodlords.


Using Swarmhosts
+ Show Spoiler +
There are a few Key Factors here. First of all, Locusts while in the Air will always automatically target units / buildings that shoot up. This means if you are deadling with mass chargelot they will always fly past them to a cannon / Archon. Try to Avoid that if you want to use them vs the Chargelots and land them manually.

Make use of Cliffs when using Swarmhosts so they can't be retalitated against and always protect them with other Units.

While defending harrassment only use 2-4 Swarmhosts to send their locusts and don't use up all Swarmhosts at once.

While attacking spread out your Swarmhosts and use multiple waves against Storm / AoE heavy compositions so your locusts don't all die at once.

Fungal their Army so they can't run away from the Locusts or Neural their expensive units so they lose them even if they run.

Add Corruptors to deal with Colossi or Neural them.

Burrow the Swarmhosts so they don't block other Units.




Neural Targets
+ Show Spoiler +
Neural is your best friend and most vital asset. The priority when it comes to neuraling is the following:
Mothership > Colossi > Archon > Carrier > Disruptor > Immortal > HT (?).
Always have your Infestors burrowed while neuraling and always try to keep them at the back and make sure they don't get feedbacked.

This Video really Highlights the Strength of Neural vs Protoss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAZM57LRMbs




Videos
+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5rjXNUVPj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dgtyCfj0KY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAZM57LRMbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJKmXtAN54



Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
sc2replaystats.com
sc2replaystats.com
sc2replaystats.com
sc2replaystats.com
sc2replaystats.com
sc2replaystats.com
sc2replaystats.com
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/4330392
http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/4330330


If you want to see the Build in Action you can always watch me on Twitch @ http://www.twitch.tv/railgan

Thank you all for reading
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
February 03 2017 23:52 GMT
#2
Oh god, you've discovered what i have, and i don't even main Zerg atm. God help us all. Though honestly i tried to help spread this a few weeks ago so it'll get nerfed fast. Swarmhosts are a freewin against Protoss if you know how to use them properly.
Sup
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-04 09:10:49
February 04 2017 09:10 GMT
#3
As if zergs need any new strats vs toss...
Literally every unit works
Less is more.
Alch3mist
Profile Joined December 2011
Belgium29 Posts
February 04 2017 10:50 GMT
#4
Thanks a lot for this guide! I can't wait to try this strat! I've been struggling so hard versus toss, I feel there is nothing I can do against them, whether they go for a big chargelot/archon push or carriers (the worst of all). I've tried so many different things that I'm running out of ideas, but this seems very promising.
I have 80% win rate vs zerg, 60% vs terran and 28% vs toss, so that should really help. Protoss is the last thing that prevents me from reaching master so if this is as good as you make it look it might be exactly what I need

I seem to find two strategies vs carriers in your guide: once you say to do a push with infested terrans and lings to kill him, but then you say zergs need hydras or corruptors and neural parasite. Is this in case the first infested terrans push doesn't work? Or is it just a second option that may work too (choosing one among both, not doing one then the other).
An other question: when you fight carriers, do you try to focus the carriers themselves or do you just let auto-attack on the interceptors and then keep pushing once they are all gone?
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
February 04 2017 11:04 GMT
#5
I tried it once yesterday and it was quite fun. I ran into a turtle into carriers with cannons mode and used nuero on the monthership first, carriers later. And my composition was mainly infestors, queens and hydras. Ling bane dealt with the cannons on the ground. Was the first time playing it so I lost eventually (didn't know about his 4th, which should have been my target after trading an army for an army).

I checked the infested terrans game vs carriers. I guess it was good there because the cybercore was part of the wall and the protoss didn't have a third by that time (blocked by burrowed lings, and in a rush into carriers protoss don't have many observers early on). I guess it can work, but I don't think its a guaranteed win.
redloser
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1721 Posts
February 04 2017 11:31 GMT
#6
I played this style about 5~6 times today, and indeed this style is actually pretty good vs. aggressive P (adepts into phoenix, immortal all-in, etc.), but somehow I can't just make this work against the usual archon drop into macro play. I can shut down the DT/archon drop alright, I can just fungal the warp prism and snipe it with queens. But the problem is how to play afterwards. Harassing with SH/lings doesn't give much since there are archons + overcharges, and after flying 2~3 locusts, Protoss just moves out with the deathball and kill me. How do you play against such Protoss style?
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
February 04 2017 14:21 GMT
#7
On February 04 2017 19:50 Alch3mist wrote:
Thanks a lot for this guide! I can't wait to try this strat! I've been struggling so hard versus toss, I feel there is nothing I can do against them, whether they go for a big chargelot/archon push or carriers (the worst of all). I've tried so many different things that I'm running out of ideas, but this seems very promising.
I have 80% win rate vs zerg, 60% vs terran and 28% vs toss, so that should really help. Protoss is the last thing that prevents me from reaching master so if this is as good as you make it look it might be exactly what I need

I seem to find two strategies vs carriers in your guide: once you say to do a push with infested terrans and lings to kill him, but then you say zergs need hydras or corruptors and neural parasite. Is this in case the first infested terrans push doesn't work? Or is it just a second option that may work too (choosing one among both, not doing one then the other).
An other question: when you fight carriers, do you try to focus the carriers themselves or do you just let auto-attack on the interceptors and then keep pushing once they are all gone?


You can either just go for 4-8 Infestors (Make sure you make as many as possible) with a lot of lings and spam their wall with infested Terrans to kill them, or try to play the Macro game and use Hydras / Corruptors as support while trying to Neural all his Archons / Carriers to push them back.

Infested terrans aren't that good vs 5+ Carriers but really good vs small amounts to break the protoss wall and make sure they can't rebuild.

If you go for Corruptors --> Focus the Carriers, if you go for Hyras try to fungal interceptors first and neural the carriers.
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
February 04 2017 22:33 GMT
#8
I'm using it lately and its quite fun to play.
ZvP was my best MU this season (using ling bane compositions), but it turns to be more fun this way.

BTW, how about collosi, you don't mention them in the neural hierarchy. I guess they are more important then archons but less then the mothership.
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
February 05 2017 00:05 GMT
#9
On February 05 2017 07:33 bulya wrote:
I'm using it lately and its quite fun to play.
ZvP was my best MU this season (using ling bane compositions), but it turns to be more fun this way.

BTW, how about collosi, you don't mention them in the neural hierarchy. I guess they are more important then archons but less then the mothership.


It kind of depends.

VS Skytoss you want to get the colossi immediatly cause they will focus the Infestors.

VS Groundtoss you might want to grab the Archons first cause they are usually at the front and kill the locusts and lings really quickly.
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
February 06 2017 13:52 GMT
#10
On February 04 2017 18:10 insitelol wrote:
As if zergs need any new strats vs toss...
Literally every unit works


If by every unit, you mean only banelings, sure.
Cereal
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
February 07 2017 12:47 GMT
#11
Yes, the more we see the broken SH used to steal games, the more likely it'll get nerfed. Go forth zerg players ! Go wreck the ladder with waves of free units until blizz is forced into redesigning this BS unit. For the greater good.

User was warned for this post
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
February 14 2017 12:22 GMT
#12
Added a new Video showcasing a straight counter vs Carrier Mothership using mass Infestor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg6WDXYfF7E
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
February 16 2017 21:32 GMT
#13
Since its quite a 2 base opener, how do you handle situations where protoss blocks your natural with a probe or a pylon?
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
February 18 2017 14:25 GMT
#14
On February 17 2017 06:32 bulya wrote:
Since its quite a 2 base opener, how do you handle situations where protoss blocks your natural with a probe or a pylon?

Two choices. Either Hatch before overlord (I think True used to do that?) or just go 3 base and then lay low on the Queens and only aim for ~ 44 Drones. Use the 3rd as a Macro Hatch.
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
AndreasHeideman
Profile Joined February 2017
Sweden30 Posts
February 24 2017 03:23 GMT
#15
The problem with the swarm host is very familiar with both Terran and Protoss players. During the majority of Heart of the Swarm, the swarm host was a serious balance problem. Quickly into the beta, people realized that once you started creating swarm hosts, you were obligated to keep making them because of how well they scaled. Thus, birthed the stephano style swarm host usage. Massing static defense, turtling on just enough bases to get just enough swarm hosts to tackle any ground army in the game.

Relationships are like computer games. It ends fast when CHEATS exist. / https://diabloii.nu
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
February 24 2017 09:50 GMT
#16
Swarm hosts are completely broken.

User was warned for this post
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
February 26 2017 12:26 GMT
#17
On February 24 2017 12:23 AndreasHeideman wrote:
The problem with the swarm host is very familiar with both Terran and Protoss players. During the majority of Heart of the Swarm, the swarm host was a serious balance problem. Quickly into the beta, people realized that once you started creating swarm hosts, you were obligated to keep making them because of how well they scaled. Thus, birthed the stephano style swarm host usage. Massing static defense, turtling on just enough bases to get just enough swarm hosts to tackle any ground army in the game.


Well it's a different Unit now~ You can't really just hide and defend behind mass Swarmhost.
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
March 05 2017 23:23 GMT
#18
I'm starting to see pros using fungals on phoenix and neural's on P power units (archons, mothership, etc).

Also pros like Dark used SH (and not only Dark) vs Protoss.
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
March 05 2017 23:46 GMT
#19
On March 06 2017 08:23 bulya wrote:
I'm starting to see pros using fungals on phoenix and neural's on P power units (archons, mothership, etc).

Also pros like Dark used SH (and not only Dark) vs Protoss.

They probably watched Avilo's Zerg streams and figured it's the way to go.

But ye I showed the guide to some of them and they thought it was a solid way to play. However, they will want to open their 3 Hatch Style.
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
March 06 2017 10:09 GMT
#20
I guess a 2 base style obligates you (or anyone who uses it) do some damage early on while already the tech of choice has already been made, while a 3 base style offers a more defensive style and adapt to this option if it seems like the better choice.
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