EPTJust some General advice about composition/tactics to not get everything pewpew'ed to shreds would be very much appreciated!
The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 62
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
Just some General advice about composition/tactics to not get everything pewpew'ed to shreds would be very much appreciated! | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On April 09 2018 01:23 Branch.AUT wrote: I'm have trouble dealing with early Cyclone Attacks. So far neither Immortals nor Stalkers nor Adepts could hold. Neither could Immortal + Adepts. Just some General advice about composition/tactics to not get everything pewpew'ed to shreds would be very much appreciated! After probe scouting, don't send it back home, hide it somewhere to comeback at ~2.30 to check if they switch the factory onto the reactor. If you can confirm it chrono an extra stalker and build a shield battery at your natural at 3.20. I open 2 stalkers so i end up with 3 + a battery once the first 2 cyclones arrive. Then immortals shut down any attempt to make more cyclones. If you don't manage to see what they're doing i would blindly react the same way just in case If you meant one base allin chrono stalkers, get a faster robo and build a shield battery. | ||
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Socke
Germany451 Posts
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
On April 13 2018 20:25 Socke wrote: what maps in the current mappool are good or bad for pvz / pvt and for what reasons? oo its socke! PvZ I rarely win on abiogenesis if I go for a macro game in PvZ just because it's so small and the zerg has a lot of versatility in choosing their fights if they have creep spread. Backwater is tough too - theres a lot of distance between you and the zerg. your fourth base has a nice siegable area for lurkers so you have to pick your fights carefully. in general I have to play more conservatively than I'd like on that map PvT Blackpink has been pretty good for protoss. The watchtowers give good vision for drop defense and there are choke points to empower your aoe. Acid plant is T sided based on statistics probably because of how spread out the first 3 bases are, but I don't have much to say in addition to that. I personally enjoy acid plant edit: i'd add I'm in gm | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
Catalyst is a great Protoss map in both matchups since you can defend three, even four bases very easily. In PvZ for example you can stay defensive and tech to carriers off three bases since you only really have 2-3 paths to defend and maybe drops, then push across really fast due to short rush distance. Seen that work very well for KR Protoss. Really straight forward to defend in PvT as well. Neon Violet Square is good for Protoss in general, because big map and safe pocket expansion. Only thing to look out for is perhaps not letting Zerg get to lategame because you'll most likely lose. I personally like Acid Plant too, I think it's just a very solid map. Same with Blackpink. Screw Abiogenesis. It sucks for everything. Main is droppable from two angles, natural is very very droppable and vulnerable to siege/elevator plays, rush distance is super short so any all-in hits you extremely fast, third base is on the low ground so you have to go up a ramp to defend your natural if both bases are under attack. Fourth base is on the high ground so again, you have to go up a ramp. Zerg has creep spread to your bases really fast. Seriously, veto that garbage. | ||
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Socke
Germany451 Posts
also is there a way to play a "standard" pvt? like all games i saw theres some tricky weird opening it feels. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
The most standard is probably a 3gate blink/robo with single forge/colossus, although double forge/ with charge + Immortals is also very good. Overall just lots of options for Protoss in the matchup, and Terran generally feels forced to pressure you or even all-in due to all your builds incorporating an early third. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Moreover, how does Protoss hold it without being behind? | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On May 15 2018 01:17 Ben... wrote: With the marauder buff coming in the next day or two, my question is how will Protoss handle proxy marauders with concussive shell? We used to use the mothership core to hold that kind of rush, but now without it I'm not sure what to do. Shield batteries are about the only thing I can thing of but they can only last so long. Moreover, how does Protoss hold it without being behind? It's not even out yet, patience :p But i'm guessing chronoed stalkers and shield batteries yes | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On May 15 2018 02:01 ArtyK wrote: It's not even out yet, patience :p But i'm guessing chronoed stalkers and shield batteries yes Haha, I'm just asking because I already have faced it twice this morning. The first time I just wasn't expecting it (I scouted that a proxy was happening but didn't find the proxy until after the marauders walked up my ramp. Most of the proxies I've faced the last month or so have been cyclones) and got rolled. The second time I did two gates of chronoed stalkers but had to pull workers to hold it and just ended up getting rolled by a follow up push since I was behind in economy. I guess the surprising thing is how quickly it hits. Way faster than I was expecting. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On May 15 2018 03:10 Ben... wrote: Haha, I'm just asking because I already have faced it twice this morning. The first time I just wasn't expecting it (I scouted that a proxy was happening but didn't find the proxy until after the marauders walked up my ramp. Most of the proxies I've faced the last month or so have been cyclones) and got rolled. The second time I did two gates of chronoed stalkers but had to pull workers to hold it and just ended up getting rolled by a follow up push since I was behind in economy. I guess the surprising thing is how quickly it hits. Way faster than I was expecting. What are you talking about man? Marauder "buff" has no effect on early game. It's 0,5 more damage per shot on Stalker. Assuming you got SB to defend it's a whole 0 damage per shot buff. Any terran proxy could be held on your nat with delayed nexi (boosted gateway units of 1 gate+sb, add SG or Robo). All you got to do is scout no barracks on his main. Scouting proxy location is not needed. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
i have had some success stopping at around 6-8 stalkers, cancelling/skipping blink and going straight into early templar archives and 8 gate charge archon + double warp prism (since everyone just snipes it with the phoenix), but this only seems to work when my opponent is greedy or their macro slips are shield batteries useful at all? i feel like i want them to protect my stalkers from being lifted. (do shield batteries even hit lifted units?). when i invest in too many stalkers i lose probes anyway and end up behind with a lot of bad units which will never catch more than 1-2 phoenix. when i take a fast third somehow i always end up behind too or die to an attack, am i doing something wrong there? finally, should i make observers to track the phoenix? i always think it seems like a good idea, but i lose so many probes that i want to keep my resources tight so i'm not sure whether it's worth it can i get some 5k+ MMR advice on this? i really don't want to play phoenix every game because phoenix vs phoenix is really boring. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On May 15 2018 22:47 brickrd wrote: what's the proper response to phoenix in pvp when you don't have a stargate? phoenix are so unnecessarily strong in this matchup that i feel i need to have a highly specific and practiced response to have any hope of winning. i have had some success stopping at around 6-8 stalkers, cancelling/skipping blink and going straight into early templar archives and 8 gate charge archon + double warp prism (since everyone just snipes it with the phoenix), but this only seems to work when my opponent is greedy or their macro slips are shield batteries useful at all? i feel like i want them to protect my stalkers from being lifted. (do shield batteries even hit lifted units?). when i invest in too many stalkers i lose probes anyway and end up behind with a lot of bad units which will never catch more than 1-2 phoenix. when i take a fast third somehow i always end up behind too or die to an attack, am i doing something wrong there? finally, should i make observers to track the phoenix? i always think it seems like a good idea, but i lose so many probes that i want to keep my resources tight so i'm not sure whether it's worth it can i get some 5k+ MMR advice on this? i really don't want to play phoenix every game because phoenix vs phoenix is really boring. Shield batteries do not heal lifted units. You can't prevent them from killing probes even in position to defend, making obsevers won't help. When i started to face lots of phoenixes in pvp past 4.0, i had the same idea of killing them with archon charge. But as you experienced yourself, it's not that effective if you're doing it in reaction to seeing phoenixes, and losing a bunch of probes in the process. You'd need to scout the stargate early or blindly allin every pvp. To oversimplify : blink opening > stargate opening > robo opening > blink opening. Do not cancel blink if that's your opening, if they make too many phoenixes they can die to a timing on low immortal count. If they play it safe with immortals and shield batteries you can pressure with the stalkers for ages while taking a faster third than them and teching to charge + archon. Skip immortals which they can lift anyway. I particularly like the combo of blink harass + recall as they try to push out, it allows you to commit even more to kill probes/pylons/tech with minimal losses | ||
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Protossking
Australia103 Posts
what's the proper response to phoenix in pvp when you don't have a stargate? phoenix are so unnecessarily strong in this matchup that i feel i need to have a highly specific and practiced response to have any hope of winning. i have had some success stopping at around 6-8 stalkers, cancelling/skipping blink and going straight into early templar archives and 8 gate charge archon + double warp prism (since everyone just snipes it with the phoenix), but this only seems to work when my opponent is greedy or their macro slips are shield batteries useful at all? i feel like i want them to protect my stalkers from being lifted. (do shield batteries even hit lifted units?). when i invest in too many stalkers i lose probes anyway and end up behind with a lot of bad units which will never catch more than 1-2 phoenix. when i take a fast third somehow i always end up behind too or die to an attack, am i doing something wrong there? finally, should i make observers to track the phoenix? i always think it seems like a good idea, but i lose so many probes that i want to keep my resources tight so i'm not sure whether it's worth it can i get some 5k+ MMR advice on this? i really don't want to play phoenix every game because phoenix vs phoenix is really boring. 5.8k Protoss here. I think you've got the right idea, I try to get 6-8 stalkers (without blink) and rush for chargelot archon. It can be extra nice if you can skip the robotics facility (don't really want immortals here). You definitely wanna get aggressive if you're going for this comp, because he will eventually get probes with his phoenix if you take it to a later game. Another good tip is to spread pylons on the corner of your bases, so you can intercept phoenix quickly with your stalkers before they make it to your mineral line. Also you can use templar to feedback and then morph them into archons straight away. | ||
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Protossking
Australia103 Posts
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insitelol
845 Posts
2 questions regarding PvZ that been bothering me for past 2 years. 1. Banebust. Since you can't 100% scout it (even sacrificing an adept), you just leave to god's will or make some precautions? Like a blind defensive SB (does it help?). Because I personally have been using 2adept into sentry opening for a while (and it works exeptionaly well vs busts), but it really hurts ur gaz income and limits ur harrasing options. 2. How do you defend early roaches (from early gaz-pool openings)? Delay Nexi? Robo or SG? (~4800 mmr) | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On May 21 2018 18:41 insitelol wrote: Okeeeey. 2 questions regarding PvZ that been bothering me for past 2 years. 1. Banebust. Since you can't 100% scout it (even sacrificing an adept), you just leave to god's will or make some precautions? Like a blind defensive SB (does it help?). Because I personally have been using 2adept into sentry opening for a while (and it works exeptionaly well vs busts), but it really hurts ur gaz income and limits ur harrasing options. 2. How do you defend early roaches (from early gaz-pool openings)? Delay Nexi? Robo or SG? (~4800 mmr) 1. Shade twice in their natural mineral line with your first adept to check drone count then go back home (speedling is about to finish, at ~3.35 with hatch first). I don't know the exact number of drones they should have, i just learned what low drone count looks like with practice and checking replays. If you confirm low drone count then it doesn't matter if it's a bane bust or something else, add a shield battery, chrono gates/WG and units from whatever tech you chose (VR or immortal), and have a probe near the wall in case of banes to build behind the unit blocking. 2. Roaches on ~22 drones? No need to delay nexus, chrono stalkers, get shield batteries, pull some probes to block if it can prevent them from running into your main. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On May 21 2018 19:52 ArtyK wrote: 1. Shade twice in their natural mineral line with your first adept to check drone count then go back home (speedling is about to finish, at ~3.35 with hatch first). I don't know the exact number of drones they should have, i just learned what low drone count looks like with practice and checking replays. If you confirm low drone count then it doesn't matter if it's a bane bust or something else, add a shield battery, chrono gates/WG and units from whatever tech you chose (VR or immortal), and have a probe near the wall in case of banes to build behind the unit blocking. 2. Roaches on ~22 drones? No need to delay nexus, chrono stalkers, get shield batteries, pull some probes to block if it can prevent them from running into your main. 1. Well, ye that's a standard scouting pattern, but the thing is it's pretty common that they transfer some drones from main to nat to fool you. That's why i check both nat and main with adept and usually sacrifice it. Another important thing to check at main is early lair (=nydus). I feel that this is mandatory to check both locations to stay relatively safe. But in any case, you could just miss a bane nest. So ye, leaving a probe behind an adept in the wall was something i was gonna try, good to know it actually a viable strat. thanks. 2. No, 22 drones is the same as BB. You just need to scout it. I'm talking about early pool/early gas -> early waren into late natural. Those roaches hit extremely fast (don't remember the exact timing, but you barely have ~2 gateway units when they arrive). | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On May 21 2018 20:57 insitelol wrote: 1. Well, ye that's a standard scouting pattern, but the thing is it's pretty common that they transfer some drones from main to nat to fool you. That's why i check both nat and main with adept and usually sacrifice it. Another important thing to check at main is early lair (=nydus). I feel that this is mandatory to check both locations to stay relatively safe. But in any case, you could just miss a bane nest. So ye, leaving a probe behind an adept in the wall was something i was gonna try, good to know it actually a viable strat. thanks. 2. No, 22 drones is the same as BB. You just need to scout it. I'm talking about early pool/early gas -> early waren into late natural. Those roaches hit extremely fast (don't remember the exact timing, but you barely have ~2 gateway units when they arrive). 1. I prefer having the extra adept at home vs allins rather than lose it to try and confirm, which isn't always easy as you mentionned. 2. Well then you can cyber before nexus to get earlier stalkers and shield batteries, but otherwise same response, maybe skip the second gas for a while. | ||
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lecubidu
5 Posts
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