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On November 23 2017 05:20 Olli wrote:
Most protoss wall off with a pylon + gateways at the ramp in PvP now, so that you can build a shield battery or pylon to close the wall in case adepts try to shade in. Otherwise you run the risk of their first two adepts suiciding into your mineral line and putting you too far behind to recover. With overcharge gone, putting that pylon and gates in the front is quite safe again.
Mmmh interesting, might do that.
Though after killing the adepts my 4 stalkers generally do much more when i counter attack, they don't have overcharge either so i kill their nexus while getting mine :p
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Austria24417 Posts
On November 23 2017 05:39 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2017 05:20 Olli wrote:
Most protoss wall off with a pylon + gateways at the ramp in PvP now, so that you can build a shield battery or pylon to close the wall in case adepts try to shade in. Otherwise you run the risk of their first two adepts suiciding into your mineral line and putting you too far behind to recover. With overcharge gone, putting that pylon and gates in the front is quite safe again. Mmmh interesting, might do that. Though after killing the adepts my 4 stalkers generally do much more when i counter attack, they don't have overcharge either so i kill their nexus while getting mine :p
You're relying on an oracle not flying into your base while you're not at home though - and that's risky considering SG builds usually open with double adept.
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On November 23 2017 06:08 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2017 05:39 ArtyK wrote:On November 23 2017 05:20 Olli wrote:
Most protoss wall off with a pylon + gateways at the ramp in PvP now, so that you can build a shield battery or pylon to close the wall in case adepts try to shade in. Otherwise you run the risk of their first two adepts suiciding into your mineral line and putting you too far behind to recover. With overcharge gone, putting that pylon and gates in the front is quite safe again. Mmmh interesting, might do that. Though after killing the adepts my 4 stalkers generally do much more when i counter attack, they don't have overcharge either so i kill their nexus while getting mine :p You're relying on an oracle not flying into your base while you're not at home though - and that's risky considering SG builds usually open with double adept.
i'm going oracle myself :>
had a game like that today, 4 stalkers + oracle beat his 2 stalkers + oracle because he opened adept
we both lost millions of probes but i killed his natural and he didn't kill mine
obviously the main ramp wall improves that even more though
now that i think about it, if i go phoenix first this can be really strong, maybe worth a try not sure
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Hey guys, returning to SC2 after the new patch and trying to figure things out. Obviously a lot has changed in this new patch, so I'm going to learn as I go mostly, just a few starting questions. What's the present protoss opener? I checked Spawning Tool, and saw people seem to open either standard gateway expand, or this weird double gate expand. Is there a specific opener I should be using against each race? Other than walling against zerg, does my building placement overly matter now that there isn't pylon overcharge?
The next question is these shield batteries. Where do I place them, and how do I use them to defend? How good are they?Thanks.
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shield batteries are still being figured out but theyre quite good in many different situations. they create situations where protoss can hold really aggressive allins when behind in army, much like bunkering for terran. its very common to have them in mineral lines and also pretty safe and easy to just throw one or two down with new expansions - basically if you want to be a little safer just go ahead and build one, i find them very versatile. very nice in early mid pvp where slight army advantages used to snowball out of control
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Are there any good PvZ openers that don't involve stargate, or do you just have to get stargate in this LotV meta always?
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On December 10 2017 04:52 boswser wrote:
Are there any good PvZ openers that don't involve stargate, or do you just have to get stargate in this LotV meta always?
You don't HAVE to but it's the safest
I personally just go for the old 4 gate DT drop into archon drop.
Just gotta chrono an adept first to shade in his natural and keep his drone count in check. Can also build a safety shield battery near the wall
Then a timing attack on 3 base with chargelot archon immortal
For other robo/twilight builds i'm not really sure, maybe some glaive pressure into colossi blink. Theres also Storm drop into archon drop...
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On December 10 2017 06:11 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2017 04:52 boswser wrote:
Are there any good PvZ openers that don't involve stargate, or do you just have to get stargate in this LotV meta always? You don't HAVE to but it's the safest I personally just go for the old 4 gate DT drop into archon drop. Just gotta chrono an adept first to shade in his natural and keep his drone count in check. Can also build a safety shield battery near the wall Then a timing attack on 3 base with chargelot archon immortal For other robo/twilight builds i'm not really sure, maybe some glaive pressure into colossi blink. Theres also Storm drop into archon drop...
That sounds fun. I've been getting damn bored doing just oracle oracle oracle. DT opener into archon drops was something I forgot about, and I definitely want to try. Do you know of any matches where that opener was used so I can get an idea of it?
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On December 10 2017 06:37 boswser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2017 06:11 ArtyK wrote:On December 10 2017 04:52 boswser wrote:
Are there any good PvZ openers that don't involve stargate, or do you just have to get stargate in this LotV meta always? You don't HAVE to but it's the safest I personally just go for the old 4 gate DT drop into archon drop. Just gotta chrono an adept first to shade in his natural and keep his drone count in check. Can also build a safety shield battery near the wall Then a timing attack on 3 base with chargelot archon immortal For other robo/twilight builds i'm not really sure, maybe some glaive pressure into colossi blink. Theres also Storm drop into archon drop... That sounds fun. I've been getting damn bored doing just oracle oracle oracle. DT opener into archon drops was something I forgot about, and I definitely want to try. Do you know of any matches where that opener was used so I can get an idea of it?
Pretty much same as i do except more agressive as he warped extra dts after the first 4 instead of getting a 3rd base.
Vod doesnt work but replay does
https://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/60641/
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mbe wary that DT openings now are extremely susceptible to pre 5minute cheeses
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Totally and utterly fail at defending early game against rushes and "cheese" strats, but if I survive to mid-late game, I'm mostly doing fine and usually winning. Having real hard time and looking for advice.
In more detail:
- Several times got wrecked by simple terran marine rush, because opponent was good at locking off base sooner than I could sneak in and scout. This resulted in me going safe build, and not pushing 4 gates with adepts. Any more ways to guess or anticipate this kind of thing?
- Have a little idea about how to defend against well executed Cyclone rush, I know Stalkers must be good vs. them, but
usually I can't have enough in time. Guess that's another fail on my recon part. So, rushing Stalkers is the best way?
- Ling + Bane rush usually decimates me real hard. Problem is that even if I wall off my natural and no lings manage to sneak in, I can't go for exp soon, so I'm on back foot in terms of economy and eventually getting stomped from early to midgame by zerg numbers.
- How do I effectively counter Roach into Ravager rush?
- Adept rush is brutal pain. I did it several times myself, and maybe I caught opponent off guard, but it seems a little too strong. We can have well sized army, crush enemy economy, be a little on a back foot in terms of tech, but we can expand, and have decent eco ourselves with this build. Any pointers on how to effectively defend against it?
- What are crucial points in defending against Photon/Spine/Spore Crawler rushes?
In general, are there ways for me to train against these kinds of builds somehow on my own?
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It may be too late to reply but I believe as a general points the new Shield Batteries and 1 chronoboost (only) on probes allow you to be better prepared against rushes. Following your points I would say that:
1) I leave the probe outside their base and try to scout from there the marine count/barrack count as well as reactors on the barrack(s). If I believe they are early pushing I do 1 SB, chronoboost adepts out. I may use the probes to tank damage
2) Cyclone rush.. can' really help sry! (I struggle myself)
3) Line-Bane, if I see unusual ling count + no third around 3.20 - 4.00 I reinforce the natural with extrabuildings + sentries and adepts... and pray for the better. I keep pressuring the zerg with stargate units, the oracle is good defending vs lings as well.
4) RR is countered with stalkers and immortals chronoboosted asap. You may also pull and lose some probes because usually the zerg has a lower drone count
5) I never had that kind of rush... I would say stalkers may help?
6) Against zerg building rushes a crucial point is the initial scouting after the gate... if you see anything unusual you should keep scouting (first of all inside your base) to stop the thing asap.You can use the SB to recharge your units' shields to do more 'rounds' when attacking spines. Against the photon cannon as a general rule of thumb I send 4 probes to their pylons/cannons and 1 chasing his probe. If it is too late because the cannons are out I try to manage to get 1 CC, 550 minerals and 150 gas and do a proxy nexus + stargate. With the stargate I build a void that can be well positioned to take his nexus down. Then an interesting game begins. Your priority is to not get cannon rushed again 
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hi there
need some help in pvz after long hiatus.
I have absolutly no idea on how to manage early game
replay example here: https://drop.sc/replay/6319978
Went for stargate, by the time oracle arrive in base spores and queens are up so 0 damage
do pehonix to kill some overlors then going for ICA composition mid game.
Got killed every time, every game, at min 7. In this replay it was by mass roaches, but 99% of time I face 20 hydras that melts everything.
I need some tips:
how do i wall off properly without exposing my tech? should I build 2 gateway cyber wall? second gateway won't be used so I think it's a waste early on.
How can I harass properly? SG is a must have to defend from runbies or drops, but i feel it's really weak for harass potential. With adepts I can deal more damage but most of time i do 0 damage and loose 7-8 of them to roaches or ling surround.
Did I teched too fast? should I build more units before add more gates?
all my pvz ends at 7-8 min mark .
I'v already posted this problem on other forums, but I keep getting technical answers on micro or macro mistake i done while i need more strategic advise on how to approach this matchup from early to lategame. Anyone willing to help asnwering my questions ?
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in pvt when opening twilight robo is it necessary to get a scout before the first observer or am i supposed to defend any build just by making stalkers? i try to keep the probe scout alive to identify units, but decent terrans find the probe. i can usually scout 3rax and defend, but there are some extremely aggressive 1-1-1 builds with SCV pulls etc that still give me trouble on certain maps like abyssal
is twilight robo still going to be safe if they nerf stalkers? i feel like it's a build that's relying on protoss favored imbalance right now... i'm personally more comfortable with robo first
finally, ive had a lot of success with proxy robo double immortal drop. as long as i don't lose the WP and rally observer in front of terrans base to spot a fast counterattack i almost always kill several add-ons/depots and end up way ahead. by the time vikings or libs are out i either retreat or suicide drop the mineral line and kill a lot of SCVs. anyone else in master+ ever use this build? is it bad at top levels?
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Quick question from a toss who hasn't played since WoL:
I recently lost against a 1 base 4 cyclone attack. The exact push was 4 cyclones, scv's for repair, and a couple of marines. I scouted no expansion and the reactor-factory on the top of his ramp, but decided to make stalkers and they evaporated before taking out anything. What units should I make in this case? Should I sim-city? My thoughts at this point are to make like 2 stalkers + zealot sentry (for guardian shield), or maybe a bunch of adepts...
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Austria24417 Posts
Ran into the same build on ladder recently and had little trouble with it. Depending on what you opened (SG or robo, you shouldn't do twilight vs 1 base terran), you can chrono either an immortal or a void ray, make a couple shield batteries, stalkers and you're good to go. Remember if he's pulling SCVs with a 1 base build, it's 100% all-in. That means it's fine for you to pull your natural probes as well. You can lose them all and still win the game. So with probes, stalkers, shield batteries and a void ray/an immortal, you should have little trouble defending it. Might also want to power your shield batteries with an additional pylon, it could get a bit tricky if they're unpowered.
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On January 21 2018 00:58 brickrd wrote:
in pvt when opening twilight robo is it necessary to get a scout before the first observer or am i supposed to defend any build just by making stalkers? i try to keep the probe scout alive to identify units, but decent terrans find the probe. i can usually scout 3rax and defend, but there are some extremely aggressive 1-1-1 builds with SCV pulls etc that still give me trouble on certain maps like abyssal
Are you talking about attacks that hit before your first obs or after?
You'll want to have one stalker around the front or the middle of the map to at least give you some warning, and if you're confident, you can have your group of stalkers poking around the front and poking the army as it moves across the map.
For attacks after the first obs, depending on how all in it is, just make sure you mass enough zealots and immortals, and if you can get a favourable engagement, you'll be pretty well off.
For attacks before the first obs, generally your stalkers will hold off well enough.
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Hey, is it just because i'm a noob and i'm not very good right now or is mothership skytoss shield battery really hard to break through. My observer got sniped by photon canons and he had like 6 shield batteries under his mothership. I've lost 3 PVPs in a row to it.
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hi there need some help in pvz after long hiatus. I have absolutly no idea on how to manage early game replay example here: https://drop.sc/replay/6319978Went for stargate, by the time oracle arrive in base spores and queens are up so 0 damage do pehonix to kill some overlors then going for ICA composition mid game. Got killed every time, every game, at min 7. In this replay it was by mass roaches, but 99% of time I face 20 hydras that melts everything. I need some tips: how do i wall off properly without exposing my tech? should I build 2 gateway cyber wall? second gateway won't be used so I think it's a waste early on. How can I harass properly? SG is a must have to defend from runbies or drops, but i feel it's really weak for harass potential. With adepts I can deal more damage but most of time i do 0 damage and loose 7-8 of them to roaches or ling surround. Did I teched too fast? should I build more units before add more gates? all my pvz ends at 7-8 min mark . I'v already posted this problem on other forums, but I keep getting technical answers on micro or macro mistake i done while i need more strategic advise on how to approach this matchup from early to lategame. Anyone willing to help asnwering my questions ?
I am struggling PvZ in a similar way as yourself. A bunch of Hydras or a baneling burst is usually enough to conteract all my efforts to set up a decent mid game. I am looking forward to any advice that we may get in the forum. In the meantime, I am trying to execute as quickly as possible Gemini's build on ICA trying to keep the zerg under harass. I think that putting pressure on the zerg is key to survive that 7-8 min mark. Watching your replay I saw that you went for Colossi, which I think are simply not good enough to deal with this kind of composition and may be useful later just to force some corruptors out. But I hope some master player may shed a light on this MU..
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EPT
