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On November 04 2017 02:45 dabachel0r wrote:
Thanks for your answer and your help. I also scout after the gateway, but sometimes they build a second depot before the barracks is even finished. So I can't look how much gas they mined. But I think to hide the probe and scout around 2:15 will be useful though.
But maybe someone else has an idea how to defend a scouted 1 base? StarGate or Robo? I also think StarGate is the key, but it's so hard sometimes...
Robo is fine. If you scout one base you can still have your nexus at your natural, just chrono a couple stalkers out of your first gate, make the robo before your msc, and add 2 gates. Make sure you have a pylon at your natural to overcharge and gain time while you chrono immortals.
Depending on what his first push looks like i make an observer as second unit for banshees, otherwise stick to immortals.
Can't let him build bunkers or turrets though, so if that's the case you want to get an extra warpin/wait for your last immortal, and pull your natural probes with your army to try and break him before the bunkers finish, or at least kill his scvs.
Finding the proxy with a probe helps a lot to know what he's going for though, + you can kill the building scv if you're lucky
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I think, one has to be very precise with the spending of the gas to defend those all-ins. In any case, thanks for the help. I also forgot to pull probes, even if I lose 5-6 I should be ahead with my natural.
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Hi, started SC2 right about now, main Protoss 1v1. Have a few questions:
1). Many guides state that player should never stop producing workers, but in most 1v1 I have played so far, more than 3 expansions is an overkill and makes me float while I have to stretch too thin to defend, plus I have hard time to keep up with micro for production with influx of 3 exps already. Let's say I occupy all 3 exps with max workers, why would I need pumping more? It's resource drain, extra micro and gathering isn't efficient with over-max, right? But I have no other use for them (in combat f.e.?). I can build entire base with shift+click of 2 workers tops as it is main Toss feature, so... more clear explanation would be welcome.
2). In PvT or PvP I usually go for Robo and get Dark Shrine (if I can). PvP I go for Immortals and PvT I'm trying to go for Colossi, but usually end up with Immortal/Colossi mix. What I'm trying to do is to get ~4 Observers, 1 attach to main army, one at base/exp and 2 spread around map > Warp Prisms asap and send two on the edge of the map (through shift) and harass enemy exps with Zealot/Dark Templar warp-ins while gathering bulk of zealot/stalker/+either Robo choice and trying to attack from 3 sides. Problem is Colossi don't seem too useful to me, they are very easy to target, not too fast, work best only vs. blob and can be hit even by air-to-air units. Are they really good in PvT?
In PvZ same Warp Prism trick doesn't work so well, so I'm usually going for mass Void Rays, but hydra blob can wreck me pretty hard.
3) How should I handle recon? From videos I learned to send Probe early at enemy base, but since I have no idea about
enemy builds yet, it gives me close to 0 useful info, I think I'll keep doing it just to develop habit, right? I also try to send recon with Sentry Illusion flyers whenever I can, but usually forget/no time. Something else I should do?
4). From what people say about patch 4.0, Disruptor is nerfed so enemy can intercept nuke now. It might have been good choice in PvZ pre-nerf as I understand but what is the best choice against deathball blobs of Zerg and Terran? How hard/efficient would be High Templar for me? It's a bummer that psi-storm damages my units too, otherwise it'd be great (OP most likely).
5). How should I use batteries? When I have spare minerals, I build two batteries together with 1 cannon close behind them, also tend to build cannon near resources to defend against harass, but it didn't rarely help... Any good combos I should know about?
6). Also almost any guides from good players I've seen recommend opening with Adepts, but I can't use them as effectively because I lack micro for now. Are there any efficient noob friendly zealot/stalker openers? And how many Warp Gates I need to have on average? In general I'd be very grateful if anyone could break down effective, preferably easy to handle unit compositions/openers against PvP, PvT and PvZ as well as what I should be mostly concentrating on as Protoss.
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1) It is always said to never stop producing workers, however that's just a general rule, there are times when you want to stop:
- when you are under heavy attack/cheese, and you need all the resources you can gather just to survive
- when you are the one going for an early all-in, and you then forgo your future economy hoping to just win or at least cripple your opponent considerably
- when you have 3 saturated bases. It is debatable, but usually you do not want to go farther than this with probes. At most, 6 more probes for another set of gases. By saying "saturated", I mean 2 probes for each mineral, and 3 for each geyser. You don't need more than that, because as time passes, your old base is going to be mined out, and you can just move those probes to a fourth base, and then again with the Others. Also, going farther than this would make your main army too little in the endgame, given the 200 maximum
2) this is a metagame question, so it's hard to say now after a big patch. Colossi lost a lot of usefulness in the past, however they may have gain some back now that they are better against marines. Disruptors still seem stronger to me at the moment, but I think we need for the meta to settle down in order to get a clear answer. Against Zerg, you can try going Colossi/Archon, with some storm. In the past going air in late game was a sure way to win, especially if he used to tech to Broodlords. But with the new infestor and its infested marines, seems like you better close the game before Zerg gets there, or you are going to be really in trouble
3) it's a good habit, but you better work towards understanding more of what you see. Gas taken or not is quite important in general for example. In PvP you REALLY need to scout now, and see if he uses his chronoboost for probes, or keeps it for later. An unused chronoboost can very likely mean proxy oracle or something like that, so beware
4) Disruptor has gotten a nerf/buff actually. It gets less units with each shot, but has much lower cooldown, and the nova explodes on contact, so it's harder to move out of it. But it's true that very good opponent could intercept the nova with a single unit. Overall I would not dismiss its use against Zerg just for that, but again, it's better to see how the metagame settles down to have a clear answer
5) A single one in the mineral line really helps against early aggression, for example it can nullify a single oracle attack for a bit less than 10 seconds, giving you the time to send defenders without losing anything. Later on, the cannons you may put there benefit from that battery as well. On the front, instead, a couple of batteries gives you a great defender advantage. You can also try to use them to siege your opponent if the chance arise. Keep in mind that a single battery has 4x the heal per second of a Medivac, but also finishes the energy much quicker.
6) Again, with a big patch like the one just online, talking about optimal openers/compositions is just premature. However stalker received a very nice burst damage buff (the dps is still the same). You can probably try opening with stalkers quite safely, especially if you later get blink.
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After playing terran in diamond 1 last season I've decided to give playing protoss another try this season. What are some resources I could look at to find openings and a general strategic overview for all three matchups?
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Austria24417 Posts
TL, soon 
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On November 16 2017 23:58 Olli wrote:TL, soon
Oooooooooooooooooooooooo :D
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many thanks! this is exactly what I was looking for
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Mexico2170 Posts
So..what does a Protoss do against mass roach/ravager now? Since Colossus was nerfed I made the mistake of massing immortals and having some VR but it didn't work. I guess I need to go disruptors? and immortals are still that unit that only works in a period of about 3 minutes or less and then you should make something else.
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Austria24417 Posts
The standard charge/immortal/archon beats it pretty easily. Blink/sentry/immortal also absolutely wrecks it with good enough upgrades.
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before the stalkerchange p definitely lost with stalker sentry immortal vs roach ling ravager (light on roaches). is the stalkerdmgchange so big in this situation that it makes a difference for this situation? not too much experience but id guess no.
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Austria24417 Posts
On November 21 2017 01:06 Socke wrote:
before the stalkerchange p definitely lost with stalker sentry immortal vs roach ling ravager (light on roaches). is the stalkerdmgchange so big in this situation that it makes a difference for this situation? not too much experience but id guess no.
I think it is, at least from my experience in masters. The biggest weakness of I felt was early ling/ravager attacks, because overcharged pylons died and forcefields could easily be broken. The latter is still the case, but with shield batteries and better stalker DPS it's so much easier to prepare and take good fights. Previously all you could do was build pylons, but you'd be limited on overcharge energy. Now you can throw down a few shield batteries in key positions and you should be good. Also in my experience you should have +1 done by the time any such attack hits, effectively giving you +2 stalkers which is huge.
In macro games I've barely lost with it. It has good scouting with hallucination, a strong double robo transition vs hydras or lurkers, or even into storm/charge as it did in HotS, lots of mobility and pressure potential, and of course good upgrades.
I'm not playing at the absolute highest level , but it's a viable playstyle all the way up to masters 1 at least.
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On November 21 2017 02:03 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2017 01:06 Socke wrote:
before the stalkerchange p definitely lost with stalker sentry immortal vs roach ling ravager (light on roaches). is the stalkerdmgchange so big in this situation that it makes a difference for this situation? not too much experience but id guess no. I think it is, at least from my experience in masters. The biggest weakness of I felt was early ling/ravager attacks, because overcharged pylons died and forcefields could easily be broken. The latter is still the case, but with shield batteries and better stalker DPS it's so much easier to prepare and take good fights. Previously all you could do was build pylons, but you'd be limited on overcharge energy. Now you can throw down a few shield batteries in key positions and you should be good. Also in my experience you should have +1 done by the time any such attack hits, effectively giving you +2 stalkers which is huge. In macro games I've barely lost with it. It has good scouting with hallucination, a strong double robo transition vs hydras or lurkers, or even into storm/charge as it did in HotS, lots of mobility and pressure potential, and of course good upgrades. I'm not playing at the absolute highest level , but it's a viable playstyle all the way up to masters 1 at least.
Well the DPS hasn't changed at all, just the first volley, but the lower fire rate higher damage does make it better combined with blink i guess.
Now is it enough to deal with ling/ravager, i don't know, but as long as you're not facing serral every game i suppose it can work. Probably better to go blink sentry colossi than immortal though.
Shield batteries definitely make it easier to deal with early timings... if you see them coming.
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Austria24417 Posts
On November 21 2017 02:22 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2017 02:03 Olli wrote:On November 21 2017 01:06 Socke wrote:
before the stalkerchange p definitely lost with stalker sentry immortal vs roach ling ravager (light on roaches). is the stalkerdmgchange so big in this situation that it makes a difference for this situation? not too much experience but id guess no. I think it is, at least from my experience in masters. The biggest weakness of I felt was early ling/ravager attacks, because overcharged pylons died and forcefields could easily be broken. The latter is still the case, but with shield batteries and better stalker DPS it's so much easier to prepare and take good fights. Previously all you could do was build pylons, but you'd be limited on overcharge energy. Now you can throw down a few shield batteries in key positions and you should be good. Also in my experience you should have +1 done by the time any such attack hits, effectively giving you +2 stalkers which is huge. In macro games I've barely lost with it. It has good scouting with hallucination, a strong double robo transition vs hydras or lurkers, or even into storm/charge as it did in HotS, lots of mobility and pressure potential, and of course good upgrades. I'm not playing at the absolute highest level , but it's a viable playstyle all the way up to masters 1 at least. Well the DPS hasn't changed at all, just the first volley, but the lower fire rate higher damage does make it better combined with blink i guess. Now is it enough to deal with ling/ravager, i don't know, but as long as you're not facing serral every game i suppose it can work. Probably better to go blink sentry colossi than immortal though. Shield batteries definitely make it easier to deal with early timings... if you see them coming.
You should see them coming with a hallucination in time. Against ling/roach/ravager I think immortals are better. Colossi barely tickle roaches now. Though most games Zerg skip roach tech in favor of baneling nest and lair anyway, so colossi are definitely the more regular choice.
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On November 21 2017 02:29 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2017 02:22 ArtyK wrote:On November 21 2017 02:03 Olli wrote:On November 21 2017 01:06 Socke wrote:
before the stalkerchange p definitely lost with stalker sentry immortal vs roach ling ravager (light on roaches). is the stalkerdmgchange so big in this situation that it makes a difference for this situation? not too much experience but id guess no. I think it is, at least from my experience in masters. The biggest weakness of I felt was early ling/ravager attacks, because overcharged pylons died and forcefields could easily be broken. The latter is still the case, but with shield batteries and better stalker DPS it's so much easier to prepare and take good fights. Previously all you could do was build pylons, but you'd be limited on overcharge energy. Now you can throw down a few shield batteries in key positions and you should be good. Also in my experience you should have +1 done by the time any such attack hits, effectively giving you +2 stalkers which is huge. In macro games I've barely lost with it. It has good scouting with hallucination, a strong double robo transition vs hydras or lurkers, or even into storm/charge as it did in HotS, lots of mobility and pressure potential, and of course good upgrades. I'm not playing at the absolute highest level , but it's a viable playstyle all the way up to masters 1 at least. Well the DPS hasn't changed at all, just the first volley, but the lower fire rate higher damage does make it better combined with blink i guess. Now is it enough to deal with ling/ravager, i don't know, but as long as you're not facing serral every game i suppose it can work. Probably better to go blink sentry colossi than immortal though. Shield batteries definitely make it easier to deal with early timings... if you see them coming. You should see them coming with a hallucination in time. Against ling/roach/ravager I think immortals are better. Colossi barely tickle roaches now.
I know but socke specifically mentionned with sentry immo vs low roach count so i thought about adding colossi to the mix ^^
As for hallucination i didn't think you could get them fast enough but you know my build pvz, i don't get sentries that fast :>
I just don't like stalkers because once lurkers come into play theyre useless (though i find ways to lose to lurkers without stalkers :>), but if they go ravager it's not the number 1 issue i suppose
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Austria24417 Posts
I've played a lot of games with a new version of the HotS 3gate/forge into third build. Only real difference is I go adept first to scout early shenanigans, then sentry/forge/2gates afterwards, or third and then two gates if I feel particularly greedy and scout nothing suspicious. Since you get an early forge, 1-2 cannons can help defend the third vs ling stuff. That first sentry after the adept should have a hallucination scout in time to see a ling/roach/ravager attack coming.
Lurkers are definitely the biggest weakness of it, but with good scouting you can either hit a timing before they come out (I'll have 2 colossi for it usually, similar to the build Zest did vs Solar at HSC on Ascension - only I try not to die to a ling runby), or you can go into charge/double immortal production from the robos you should have by then, and just use small stalker groups around the map to pick things off and trade them away effectively, while keeping the zerg pinned back. That's good enough imo, since lurkers are a big investment and keep Zerg away from hive for a while. So if you can build an army to counter lurkers while doing stuff with stalkers and a prism, you'll generally be in a good place I think, as long as you keep tabs on their hive timing.
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Having big trouble defending against early Ling rush and fast Adept rush. Any tips and pointers would be very appreciated.
In PvZ I cannot always block entrance in time with structures (on exp usually). Should I go for quick Nexus or Cyber first? How many Gates I need at average? Is it better to open with Zealots or Adepts? Should I get Sentry first?
In PvP I cannot completely block all entrances, and even in small space Adepts can easily and fast squeeze with Psi-Transfer. Best way to deal with it?
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On November 23 2017 04:20 Sundr wrote:
Having big trouble defending against early Ling rush and fast Adept rush. Any tips and pointers would be very appreciated.
In PvZ I cannot always block entrance in time with structures (on exp usually). Should I go for quick Nexus or Cyber first? How many Gates I need at average? Is it better to open with Zealots or Adepts? Should I get Sentry first?
In PvP I cannot completely block all entrances, and even in small space Adepts can easily and fast squeeze with Psi-Transfer. Best way to deal with it?
In PvZ your probe scout should see the pool first, in that case play safe and cyber + chrono zealot before your nexus, pull some probes to help your zealot defend the pylon vs the first lings until you feel safe.
Then you want to make sure he expands with your scouting probe because if not you're gonna need full wall and shield batteries.
On average it's 3 gates per saturated base but it depends on the build.
With the new patch i'm not sure yet but i usually make a stalker to deny the first overlord then an adept to scout.
In PvP heres a basic wall-off vs adepts.
+ Show Spoiler +
If you really don't wanna be bothered you can even close the gap between the gates and the nexus and they wont be able to shade at all from this side. If you wait with stalkers at your natural you can damage the adepts quite a bit by the time they reach your mineral line
Or you can just rush adept yourself and hope to make more damage than he does :>
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Austria24417 Posts
Most protoss wall off with a pylon + gateways at the ramp in PvP now, so that you can build a shield battery or pylon to close the wall in case adepts try to shade in. Otherwise you run the risk of their first two adepts suiciding into your mineral line and putting you too far behind to recover. With overcharge gone, putting that pylon and gates in the front is quite safe again.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/nxq4b5E.png)
