EPTYou can't put the first pylon on your nat cause if your rival is P or T ur fucked, but u cant also play with a late natural or a non walled one.
The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 61
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XupinatoR
Spain125 Posts
You can't put the first pylon on your nat cause if your rival is P or T ur fucked, but u cant also play with a late natural or a non walled one. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 27 2018 00:23 XupinatoR wrote: How do you guys play against randoms that get zerg? You can't put the first pylon on your nat cause if your rival is P or T ur fucked, but u cant also play with a late natural or a non walled one. Against T a wall isn't that bad, pro players even do it for hellion runbys. But yeah in general if they don't tell their race you want to start a wall at your main ramp and pylon scout, if you see it's not Z (check for the overlord to know faster) just put the cyber core behind without finishing the wall. If it is Z you can wall the natural later and are still safe from agressive openings, though it's obviously not ideal | ||
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SorrowShine
698 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Do you have to use oracles in this case? I have been trying to avoid opening oracle because literally every zerg is ready for it now and it feels like I'm basically throwing away gas. Likewise, adept openings are not the best unless it's a worse opponent (which is not a thing you want to count on) and even so, they just use the zerglings they make to defend into banelings and add them to the hydra/lurker. It feels as if I don't at least slow zerg down a bit, this hydra/lurker timing will hit before I can be ready at my 3rd. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15953 Posts
You don't necessarily need to open Stargate and can add your Stargate later... but Stargate opening is so good anyway that there's not really a reason not to do it, having easy access to Oracles vs Lurker play is another big plus of a Stargate opening. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
Stargate is literally the only available opening for pvz at the pro level right now, and not because the oracle deals damage. In fact most pros are happy getting 2 drones with the first oracle now. The strength here lies in the fact that this is the safest vs allins, it gives you map control and complete knowledge of your opponent tech path, detection, stasis for defense or harass, as well as forcing spores. And in the rare case where zerg isn't ready, you get 5 drone kills on top of that. Now is it necessary unless you're a top pro, probably not, i do fine with twilight openings, but it makes me vulnerable to allins so you have to keep that in mind. As for dealing with lurkers in general you will need storms to deflect the banelings, and a good concave before engaging. If you go colossi you need force fields to deal with as much ling bane as possible before fighting the lurkers | ||
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SartPls
Germany76 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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SartPls
Germany76 Posts
On February 10 2018 07:25 Olli wrote: Yeah, phoenix first is quite common nowadays. Up to you really, I can see benefits to both phoenix and oracle first. Little to a void ray, though, unless you're being all-inned or something. I think opening with a Void Ray is more of a blindcounter to the early Roaches that many Zergs use to counter the "standard" 2 Archon drop that you see so often in PvZ right now. But yeah, it's definitely the least common of the 3 unit options | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
And yeah, I'm not sure why I was starting to try games without Stargate since I was using it a lot to hold roach/ravager all-ins before. One day I decided to try not opening Stargate, and have been struggling ever since. | ||
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:59 Obamarauder wrote: anyone got a replay of a pro player holding ling drop with ling flood at natural? I'm not really sure of the response, a lot of people say go oracle then phoenix to kill overlord, but phoenix kills overlords too slow, lings have already dropped in. Oracle is super unreliable due its energy requirement. As long as you keep walling your natural you only need to worry about the drops At 1h36 : | ||
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Romnel
11 Posts
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
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SartPls
Germany76 Posts
On February 19 2018 07:39 Daimai wrote: What is the general unit comp and tech timings that we are trying to get against hydra plays? I don't see any clear general "goal composition" I should strive against and how I should get there. Any good build guides/replays perhaps? Just about every Protoss comp in any matchup basically aims at Chargelot/Immortal/Archon backed up by Storm as their "ultimate goal" (not counting mass carriers). Vs Hydras, depending on your playstyle and the units they use together with Hydras, you have a few options before getting to IAC though: - An All-In push with ~12 Gladepts, 2 Immos and 6 Sentries as described HERE messes greatly with the usual Hydra timings, so if you don't mind playing All-Ins, that's a good option for some quick wins - If they go for Ling/Bane/Hydra, Blink Stalker into Colossi is great, while transitioning into IAC afterwards (around the time they opt for Broodlords) - If they go for Lurkers on top of their Hydras, just going straight into IAC is your best bet tbh. Make sure you have 2+ Oracles for constant Revelations, since Observers are not reliable means of detection rn | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
i don't watch a lot of pro games - do pros ever use stalker/adept? is it worse for any major reason other than costing more gas? | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On March 05 2018 04:18 brickrd wrote: anyone ever use stalker/adept against terran? i use a lot of stalker/zealot midgame comps, and they work quite well, but i feel like in some cases adepts can be good as well. i just played against a terran who opened up with big 2 base push before 3rd, so i decided to go glaive adepts after blink and warped in about 50/50 stalkers to adepts. he killed my 3rd because i reacted slowly, but i chronoed out a prism, counterattacked and won while he was trying to land his 3rd i don't watch a lot of pro games - do pros ever use stalker/adept? is it worse for any major reason other than costing more gas? I saw Naniwa using that exact comp yesterday, he lost horribly though. From my personal experience, i can tell adepts work only in overwhelming numbers and only in early and mid game. When terran gathers his 200|200 bio ball adepts just melt instantaneously w/o dealing any damage. Their another significant drawback is that they need to shade ontop of bio to be efficient thus resuliting in no way for them to retreat. This is a very predictable move and terran is always ready for that. They know exactly when and where to land emps (but thats an overkill really). While zealots can at least try to escape after being EMPd, adepts just die. So overall, adepts are pretty terrible. I don't even know why do you want to use them. Zealots are much more solid choice in practically every situation. But colosi are even better = ) | ||
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
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